"Een opvallende passage in het regeerakkoord is ook de “overschakeling naar een gecadanceerd aanbod naar Zwitsers voorbeeld.” Dat zinnetje draagt duidelijk een N-VA-stempel. De partij pleit al jaren voor het schrappen van transnationale lijnen – “Niemand pendelt van Oostende naar Eupen of van Antwerpen naar Charleroi” – en voor het invoeren van kortere, decentrale treinverbindingen die afgestemd zijn op het werkelijke pendelverkeer."
Well, I guess no N-VA guy has ever taken the train from Geneva to reach a meeting in Zurich or Basel, or while living in Luzern go get his flight at Geneva Airport without having to switch train. The main thing in Switzerland is that the railway network combines national lines AND local ones, and they are ALL owned by public entities (mostly cantons and communes), AND where no rails exist the Car Postal completes the journey. This makes it possible for someone to keep living in Delémont while working in Yverdon-les-Bains (real case I know), or someone living in Nyon to get in time for the meeting starting at 9.30am in Zurich (a very common thing not even worth mentioning). If you CANNOT work in, say, Liège, while living in, say, Kortrijk, it's because there is no public transport making it possible, not the other way around.
How does it come that whatever public transportation system Switzerland is able to offer despite the huge toll those harsh winters take on the railway infrastructure across the Alps, Belgium isn't able to do in a plain flat territory? Politics, perhaps? Mentality? Just asking.
by ApprehensiveFall9705
16 comments
Switzerland is loaded, so there’s that. It makes no sense to have all the IC trains cross Brussels, the bottleneck is real and causes so many problems.
Not a fan of closing stations though.
On one hand they are complaining that people from Wallonia should learn Dutch and be willing to travel to Flanders to find work.
But then they also want to eliminate transport options for that same commute?
They shouldn’t pretend this has anything to do with efficiency but jus with the NVA wanting to split up as many things as possible…
Super excited for pretty much every government or government-funded service to deteriorate significantly over the next four years and then be blamed on the previous government. Also I wonder if the smoothbrains who just took office realize that if all these newly disaffected passengers took to the road we would have easily twice as much traffic as now.
Investment and planned years ahead. So you want a extra train from the Netherlands to Brussels in ten years, so we going to plan new track, new switches…
They want that the trains follows the needs, we all know it don’t work like that, it is an euphemism for less trains.
If you want that trains stops and return in Brussels you need to reduce the trains by like 50 procent unrealistic.
And there is no staff anymore, people ready to drive a train, planned every day? 2 train drivers a day in oost-vlaanderen. No staff in stations enz…
And the way the government deals with companies like nmbs, every noob of the parties thinks to know how an good trains system works, where they can reduce costs….
[https://www.reddit.com/r/trains/comments/34ec5h/let_me_explain_to_you_how_the_swiss_railway/](https://www.reddit.com/r/trains/comments/34ec5h/let_me_explain_to_you_how_the_swiss_railway/)
for smaller stations, they could use the Norwegian model, where a lot of stops are “on call” only. pretty much like busstops: they only stop there when someone needs to get on or off at that stop.
Bepaalde zaken zijn de logica zelve. Andere suggesties maken het spoor klaar om overgemaakt te worden aan de gewesten.
Dat we geen grote investeringen in het spoor of de dienstverlening moeten verwachten, dat staat buiten twijfel.
Fun discussion this.
I want to tackle your example first of working and living far away in your example the road distance (station to station) is 115km. Driving this distance takes around 1h30 minutes. By train this would either take 1h17 or 1h43.
Your other example Liège to Kortrijk also station to station is just shy of 200km. Driving this distance takes around 2h. By train this would take around 2h10min
I would not wish either commute on anyone although there are plenty of people who do that or have even longer commutes.
Your other example from Nyon to Zurich is a train journey of 2h47min. I’m not sure how many people actually do that but seeing that travel time I think you vastly overestimate the amount.
I think the article goes to explain our problem with trains quite well. It’s mainly twofold:
1) North/South Axis: it’s congested and would take ages to expand and be hugely expensive because of the swampy terrain.
2) Most of rail is only 1 track between destinations. Aka fast train would not be able to get by slower trains.
Solutions:
1) Either you take the big financial hit on expanding this axis but the financial burden is high. You only need to look at Metro3 to see how quickly drilling tunnels can become rapidly expensive.
OR
You arrange travel in a differed way. By starting point you don’t let trains go past South or North and put trains that basically act as belt between North and South. Diverting trains to West/Schuman can also ease the pain but will require people to switch more often.
2) Well only 1 option there, you lay more tracks. Also hugely expensive.
Snake under the grass (“adder onder het gras”)
Train tickets in Switzerland are generally more expensive than in Belgium. Swiss rail travel is known for its high quality, punctuality, and extensive network, but it comes at a premium.
# Price Comparison:
* **Switzerland:** A standard ticket for a medium-distance journey (e.g., Zurich to Bern, about 120 km) costs around **CHF 50–60 (€50–62)** one-way in second class. A shorter trip, like Zurich to Lucerne (about 50 km), costs around **CHF 25–30 (€26–32)**.
* **Belgium:** A similar journey (e.g., Brussels to Liège, about 100 km) costs around **€20–25** one-way in second class, and a shorter trip (e.g., Brussels to Ghent, about 50 km) is around **€10–12**.
Prices are very much different (lower) if you have a season ticket, “half price pass”, or any other formula.
But what BDW is really saying, is that train tickets –in general– will get a lot more expensive.
Same way trains are avoiding paris to go south. By going to Marne la valee instead of paris centre
I agree. I lived there for 3 years and I know what you mean. It’s a good network. Although towards the end of my stay I bought a car there as it was necessary.
Why would anyone want to commute from Liège to Kortrijk? There are physical limits to how fast a train can go, you need to have brain damage to even consider this.
*Sigh* I really wish that Belgium would stop trying to implement foreign solutions.
One of the biggest issues is that the BE railroads are split into 3 different companies (or is it two nowadays?) while I’m pretty sure that the CHD railroads are managed by one entity.
If you want a leaner and more efficient railroads company, change that first before closing stations.
‘Dat zinnetje draagt duidelijk een N-VA-stempel’.
Niet dus. FRDO, niet bepaald een N-VA-orgaan van de federale regering, pleit hier al langer voor.
I would support a system where trains are not centered around Brussels: going through Brussels and thus any delay in Brussels causes a delay elsewhere. Perhaps the system could be the solution?
I took the train from zurich to zinall. NGL swiss train system is awesome. But there is a cost to that…cost. i payed 76 euro for a trip that would cost in same distance 28 euro (i think).
This was 2019 btw.
Is het hele idee achter die transnationale lijnen dat je simpelweg geen ruimte hebt om een trein te keren/te laten wachten in Brussel voor de volgende dienst? Ga je ze ergens een depot in laten rijden om ze daar te keren, en waarom kan je ze dan niet gewoon laten doorrijden?
Verder lees ik vooral weer hetzelfde riedeltje: meer treinen in de Vlaamse Ruit, al de rest mag meebetalen maar moet niet verwachten er ook iets voor terug te krijgen.
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