you want escalation? cause thats how you get escalation
They still haven’t recieved the Russian message it seems
Yes, we should’ve done that a while ago.
[removed]
This is the same as the no-fly zone: you have to be willing to enforce it by killing russians, otherwise it’s back to the `”peacekeeping forces” in Bosnia that couln’t stop Srebrenica.
You do that Alone and all by yourself if you get shot at by russians NATO cant intervene big risk no need to escalate more
Let’s go. End of Russia!
It has been brought up and rejected multiple times already. But I have an idea: Poland could send that peacekeeping force on its own if Ukraine invites it. No NATO involvement, no risk of nuclear escalation.
No, Poland, we won’t start WW3.
The time for Ukraine to join NATO and be protected was in 2008.
Unfortunately that chance was squandered by some NATO members.
Nah. But since it’s almost certain independent Ukrainian state will survive this war (it’s “just” a matter of how many territory will be lost), after peace with Russia and withdrawal of invading forces, it’s necessary to immediately accept Ukraine as NATO member, perhaps with some limitation that no foreign military will stay in Ukraine’s soil, but with article 5 etc included.
Poland is suddenly acting all “active and brave” after years of doing exactly the opposite. Sit the hell down and have some chill. This whole “We seek NATO for X” trend is like scoring cheap karma – it makes you look like a good guy even though you know that you’re going to get a “No” for all the valid reasons in the world.
NATO peacekeeping force is not gonna fly but a UN peacekeeping force could work.
Peacekeeping against who? If the orcs left and returned to status quo, there would be peace right away.
Even a collaboration movement hasn’t emerged as of now.
No more Warsaw… shame, i would have loved visiting it, i have to make do with the RUINS
That is literally going against the principle idea of NATO and would likely cause the end of NATO. It’s a purely populist request/statement, which uses the widespread desire to help and protect Ukraine, but which would have serious repercussions.
In the worst case, Russia would see this as NATO actively intervening in a war. Since Russia cannot win the war with conventional weapons, but it’s also no longer a regional conflict, but one that threatens the whole existence of the current system in Russia, it’s likely they’d use nuclear weapons. Such an escalation certainly cannot be worth saving Ukraine – as horrible as the sounds, since innocents are killed, but this choice would likely kill even more innocent people.
In the best case, this stops the war with Russia, but breaks NATO apart. Why? Because the idea of NATO was to protect the population of it’s members, it’s a defensive alliance. Yet in this case, they’d put the population of member countries at risk in order to protect a non-member country – that’s a gigantic change and goes totally against the original principle. Suddenly being in NATO is no longer just beneficial (as increasing the security), but can also be a threat to one’s own population (decreasing security). As such, this would likely start the decline, with countries potentially leaving the alliance, as after all they might still be protected in an unjust law (as Ukraine was), but wouldn’t need to put their own population at risk.
I can understand the need to help Ukraine, to feel like something is done to stop that horror. Yet this is counterproductive.
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you want escalation? cause thats how you get escalation
They still haven’t recieved the Russian message it seems
Yes, we should’ve done that a while ago.
[removed]
This is the same as the no-fly zone: you have to be willing to enforce it by killing russians, otherwise it’s back to the `”peacekeeping forces” in Bosnia that couln’t stop Srebrenica.
You do that Alone and all by yourself if you get shot at by russians NATO cant intervene big risk no need to escalate more
Let’s go. End of Russia!
It has been brought up and rejected multiple times already. But I have an idea: Poland could send that peacekeeping force on its own if Ukraine invites it. No NATO involvement, no risk of nuclear escalation.
No, Poland, we won’t start WW3.
The time for Ukraine to join NATO and be protected was in 2008.
Unfortunately that chance was squandered by some NATO members.
Nah. But since it’s almost certain independent Ukrainian state will survive this war (it’s “just” a matter of how many territory will be lost), after peace with Russia and withdrawal of invading forces, it’s necessary to immediately accept Ukraine as NATO member, perhaps with some limitation that no foreign military will stay in Ukraine’s soil, but with article 5 etc included.
Poland is suddenly acting all “active and brave” after years of doing exactly the opposite. Sit the hell down and have some chill. This whole “We seek NATO for X” trend is like scoring cheap karma – it makes you look like a good guy even though you know that you’re going to get a “No” for all the valid reasons in the world.
NATO peacekeeping force is not gonna fly but a UN peacekeeping force could work.
Peacekeeping against who? If the orcs left and returned to status quo, there would be peace right away.
Even a collaboration movement hasn’t emerged as of now.
No more Warsaw… shame, i would have loved visiting it, i have to make do with the RUINS
That is literally going against the principle idea of NATO and would likely cause the end of NATO. It’s a purely populist request/statement, which uses the widespread desire to help and protect Ukraine, but which would have serious repercussions.
In the worst case, Russia would see this as NATO actively intervening in a war. Since Russia cannot win the war with conventional weapons, but it’s also no longer a regional conflict, but one that threatens the whole existence of the current system in Russia, it’s likely they’d use nuclear weapons. Such an escalation certainly cannot be worth saving Ukraine – as horrible as the sounds, since innocents are killed, but this choice would likely kill even more innocent people.
In the best case, this stops the war with Russia, but breaks NATO apart. Why? Because the idea of NATO was to protect the population of it’s members, it’s a defensive alliance. Yet in this case, they’d put the population of member countries at risk in order to protect a non-member country – that’s a gigantic change and goes totally against the original principle. Suddenly being in NATO is no longer just beneficial (as increasing the security), but can also be a threat to one’s own population (decreasing security). As such, this would likely start the decline, with countries potentially leaving the alliance, as after all they might still be protected in an unjust law (as Ukraine was), but wouldn’t need to put their own population at risk.
I can understand the need to help Ukraine, to feel like something is done to stop that horror. Yet this is counterproductive.