The numbers honestly don’t seem that bad. Just me?
[deleted]
To the peds – stop looking at your phones when walking across the road 1) as it may help not being hit by traffic 2) the local road roadmen and proper naughty boyz won’t see you as a soft target.
To the drivers – stop buying your licences on EBay or paying your 12th cousin that looks like you to take the test for you. For those on International Drivers licences as well, you do actually have to take a UK one at some point as well.
>as number of pedestrians killed in collisions soars 25 per cent
_From what to what?_ When dealing with small numbers, percentage increases can be very misleading. Road traffic deaths are rare, so normal fluctuations are going to look like massive increases/decreases by percentage.
Eg, 4 deaths to 5 deaths is a 25 percent increase but it’s not particularly significant in the grand scheme of things.
EDIT – Yes I did read the article, I was just making a point about how reporting the % increase is misleading in these sorts of cases when you’re dealing with small numbers.
Drivers staring at their phones or massive touch screens in their cars probably isn’t helping
Not surprised at all. Population explosion, busy roads and London’s response is to make roads smaller and – ironically – safer for pedestrians and cyclist. As obvious to us who actually drive and know the mentality of humans the safety measures have had the opposite effect. Sorry but London is not ready for pedestrianisation and SHRINKING THE FUCKING ROADS is gonna have the effect we said it would.
[deleted]
includes 66 pedestrians, 10 cyclists, 18 motorcyclists, 27 car occupants, three bus occupants, five HGV occupants and one e-scooter rider.
I appreciate that for the people who are killed and their families, it represents a huge impact. However, given the large population, they are not statistically significant, and a small increase will represent a large percentage change.
Even though I’m guilty of it sometimes, the amount of people that just walk out when at traffic lights in the city is scary. I see it countless times a week, someone nearly getting run over by a car or cyclist. But of course, it’ll be the drivers or cyclists fault.
I cycle and drive, not always at the same time, and I can confidently say this, cyclists are fucking cunts. Myself included. We know we need to be careful around cars but there’s something intoxicating about being right.
I swear the pandemic broke our brains here — it wasn’t long before then where we’d all boast on Reddit about how stringent our driving test/laws were, in the same way we talk positively about the Type G plug and gov.uk.
But now our driving is *atrocious*. Granted, there are many factors going into this: state of the roads, household economic pressures, cycling infrastructure being terrible. But the *anger*. I have had drivers in the recent past look as though they will murder me without a second thought. Be it because I committed the crime of parallel parking or *not* doing 33mph in a 30.
As a cyclist, too, the South East genuinely scares me. I’ve cycled all over the place — Morocco, Japan, Jordan, Australia — and there isn’t another place that feels like drivers make a game of passing cyclists as closely/loudly as they possibly can like they do here. Genuinely feels like these SUVs *want* to perform a hit-and-run on us sometimes.
Nothing spikes my anxiety like seeing a balding, middle-aged man with shit sunglasses hugging my bumper with their black Range Rover.
Edit: spalling
Not sure why people in the comments are minimising this when almost all of us anecdotally report that drivers are dickheads these days in ways they didn’t used to be. Pretty much weekly, I have run-ins with drivers that decide they don’t feel like stopping at zebra crossings or red lights, not to mention the dickheads in East London that rip around in their shitty ford fiestas at 80mph as if they’re invincible.
Are they allowing big American trucks and cars on the road there yet? Those things are killers.
It’s always the BMW drivers I’ve noticed driving like they’re in a F1 race
Pedestrians have a 2.5% chance of death only on 20mph roads, so that should be the norm for urban areas especially around residential areas. As the speed limit increases, risk of death rises exponentially.
Yeah so regardless of who has “right of way”, a car is always gonna win against a person.
Just pay attention when you’re on foot.
So much victim blaming going on here. No one should get killed because someone else felt entitled to engage in risky behaviour. Pay attention when you drive or, better yet, use alternative forms of transport when possible so the places pedestrians want to be aren’t overrun by heavy firm fast moving death machines.
Slightly meaningless stats, as it doesn’t say if deaths per journey mile or per journey or per population have changed.
You’d expect deaths to go up 25% if Journey-miles also go up 25%.
And you’d want to look at specific incidents. The extra 13 or so deaths might have been murders rather than accidents, or they might all have been a single freak accident where a bus hits pedestrians at a bus stop, or a nutter rams a protest march etc.
The base numbers are far to low to assume “walking just got 25% more dangerous OMG!” which many people seem to be doing.
Suppose the increase is real as a percentage of Journey-mile. But suppose the entire increase can be examined by pedestrians wearing headphones and looking at their phones, or that all the extra victims were on drugs at the time. That would not indicate that roads have become more dangerous, merely that people have become more inept at using them, or have chosen to lead higher risk lives.
As an avid pedestrian, these numbers don’t concern me at all. I’m far more concerned about the enjoyment of being a pedestrian than the safety of it. Walking around London continues to be incredibly safe, but it is decreasingly fun.
The lack of stop signs at every crosswalk in this city really grinds my Canadian gears. I know, I know, flow of traffic and all…
In 2021 there were nearly two and a half times as many hit and run casualties on London’s roads as there were in 2009. Not stopping after a collision seems to be almost normalised and the people that do it appear not to care about their victims or to fear any legal consequences.
In a nutshell there are more entitled cunt drivers around
What a time for the Met to be cutting their road traffic teams by 15%…
Since the 20mph limits came in I have noticed a lot more of these incident signs around. Are more drivers thinking they can get away checking their phone because they are driving slower? Other drivers constantly watching the speedo to make sure they don’t go over? Pedestrians taking more chances crossing the road with slower traffic?
Have the 20mph limits inadvertently made our roads more dangerous?
People just seem to think that it’s fine to accelerate up to 50-60mph in a 30 just because the road ahead is clear and they want to hear their engine go brrr. They then brake suddenly (or lose control).
No police anywhere, but definitely no police on the London roads.
No deterrent other than speed cams, quality of driving has visibly nosedived since lock down in my opinion so doesn’t take a genius to see a knock on from that will be more “accidents”
But what about lime bikes? /s
Drove past a wrecked suv type vehicle that had clearly tried to take a sharp 20 mph corner at 50 and come off the road. Not impressed. Pedestrians everywhere it’s sheer luck nobody was hit (Highbury)
A real study needs to be done on the reduced number of police, the increase in high riding SUVS, and the prevalence of huge touch screen infotainment systems…
So having 20 mph limits in most of London has not helped – in fact pedestrian fatalities have gone up???
Weren’t 20 mph limits supposed to reduce them?
If you want to kill someone and get away with it: do it with a car.
The answer is obvious, we need 10mph speed limits!
People need to learn to use the roads properly. I drive and take it very seriously, always following the rules—it’s not worth risking other people’s safety or getting penalties just to arrive somewhere quicker.
That being said, I see so many cyclists running red lights, undertaking on corners, riding on the wrong side of the road, and doing other dangerous things.
I used to cycle but to be quite honest, I wouldn’t dare do it now, especially in East London, where I live. I regularly see reckless drivers speeding, using laughing gas, and crashing into street furniture. In fact, I’ve found my car scuffed at least once a year since moving there.
Perhaps people need to be more considerate and care about each other’s needs whilst on the road. People are becoming more selfish.
What doesnt seem clear from the article is whether the number of collisions are up or the number of deaths. They are quite different things.
The standard of driving has dropped since Covid.
I work on the roads and I have to keep my head on a swivel because you honestly can’t expect any driver these days to at least act in a normal professional manner.
When I learn to ride a motorcycle I was taught to treat every other motor vehicle operator to be an idiot that will kill you accidentally.
15 years later and I’m learning how true that was.
Not surprised as tower hamlets is basically a race track
34 comments
The numbers honestly don’t seem that bad. Just me?
[deleted]
To the peds – stop looking at your phones when walking across the road 1) as it may help not being hit by traffic 2) the local road roadmen and proper naughty boyz won’t see you as a soft target.
To the drivers – stop buying your licences on EBay or paying your 12th cousin that looks like you to take the test for you. For those on International Drivers licences as well, you do actually have to take a UK one at some point as well.
>as number of pedestrians killed in collisions soars 25 per cent
_From what to what?_ When dealing with small numbers, percentage increases can be very misleading. Road traffic deaths are rare, so normal fluctuations are going to look like massive increases/decreases by percentage.
Eg, 4 deaths to 5 deaths is a 25 percent increase but it’s not particularly significant in the grand scheme of things.
EDIT – Yes I did read the article, I was just making a point about how reporting the % increase is misleading in these sorts of cases when you’re dealing with small numbers.
Drivers staring at their phones or massive touch screens in their cars probably isn’t helping
Not surprised at all. Population explosion, busy roads and London’s response is to make roads smaller and – ironically – safer for pedestrians and cyclist. As obvious to us who actually drive and know the mentality of humans the safety measures have had the opposite effect. Sorry but London is not ready for pedestrianisation and SHRINKING THE FUCKING ROADS is gonna have the effect we said it would.
[deleted]
includes 66 pedestrians, 10 cyclists, 18 motorcyclists, 27 car occupants, three bus occupants, five HGV occupants and one e-scooter rider.
I appreciate that for the people who are killed and their families, it represents a huge impact. However, given the large population, they are not statistically significant, and a small increase will represent a large percentage change.
Even though I’m guilty of it sometimes, the amount of people that just walk out when at traffic lights in the city is scary. I see it countless times a week, someone nearly getting run over by a car or cyclist. But of course, it’ll be the drivers or cyclists fault.
I cycle and drive, not always at the same time, and I can confidently say this, cyclists are fucking cunts. Myself included. We know we need to be careful around cars but there’s something intoxicating about being right.
I swear the pandemic broke our brains here — it wasn’t long before then where we’d all boast on Reddit about how stringent our driving test/laws were, in the same way we talk positively about the Type G plug and gov.uk.
But now our driving is *atrocious*. Granted, there are many factors going into this: state of the roads, household economic pressures, cycling infrastructure being terrible. But the *anger*. I have had drivers in the recent past look as though they will murder me without a second thought. Be it because I committed the crime of parallel parking or *not* doing 33mph in a 30.
As a cyclist, too, the South East genuinely scares me. I’ve cycled all over the place — Morocco, Japan, Jordan, Australia — and there isn’t another place that feels like drivers make a game of passing cyclists as closely/loudly as they possibly can like they do here. Genuinely feels like these SUVs *want* to perform a hit-and-run on us sometimes.
Nothing spikes my anxiety like seeing a balding, middle-aged man with shit sunglasses hugging my bumper with their black Range Rover.
Edit: spalling
Not sure why people in the comments are minimising this when almost all of us anecdotally report that drivers are dickheads these days in ways they didn’t used to be. Pretty much weekly, I have run-ins with drivers that decide they don’t feel like stopping at zebra crossings or red lights, not to mention the dickheads in East London that rip around in their shitty ford fiestas at 80mph as if they’re invincible.
Are they allowing big American trucks and cars on the road there yet? Those things are killers.
It’s always the BMW drivers I’ve noticed driving like they’re in a F1 race
Pedestrians have a 2.5% chance of death only on 20mph roads, so that should be the norm for urban areas especially around residential areas. As the speed limit increases, risk of death rises exponentially.
Yeah so regardless of who has “right of way”, a car is always gonna win against a person.
Just pay attention when you’re on foot.
So much victim blaming going on here. No one should get killed because someone else felt entitled to engage in risky behaviour. Pay attention when you drive or, better yet, use alternative forms of transport when possible so the places pedestrians want to be aren’t overrun by heavy firm fast moving death machines.
Slightly meaningless stats, as it doesn’t say if deaths per journey mile or per journey or per population have changed.
You’d expect deaths to go up 25% if Journey-miles also go up 25%.
And you’d want to look at specific incidents. The extra 13 or so deaths might have been murders rather than accidents, or they might all have been a single freak accident where a bus hits pedestrians at a bus stop, or a nutter rams a protest march etc.
The base numbers are far to low to assume “walking just got 25% more dangerous OMG!” which many people seem to be doing.
Suppose the increase is real as a percentage of Journey-mile. But suppose the entire increase can be examined by pedestrians wearing headphones and looking at their phones, or that all the extra victims were on drugs at the time. That would not indicate that roads have become more dangerous, merely that people have become more inept at using them, or have chosen to lead higher risk lives.
As an avid pedestrian, these numbers don’t concern me at all. I’m far more concerned about the enjoyment of being a pedestrian than the safety of it. Walking around London continues to be incredibly safe, but it is decreasingly fun.
The lack of stop signs at every crosswalk in this city really grinds my Canadian gears. I know, I know, flow of traffic and all…
In 2021 there were nearly two and a half times as many hit and run casualties on London’s roads as there were in 2009. Not stopping after a collision seems to be almost normalised and the people that do it appear not to care about their victims or to fear any legal consequences.
In a nutshell there are more entitled cunt drivers around
What a time for the Met to be cutting their road traffic teams by 15%…
Since the 20mph limits came in I have noticed a lot more of these incident signs around. Are more drivers thinking they can get away checking their phone because they are driving slower? Other drivers constantly watching the speedo to make sure they don’t go over? Pedestrians taking more chances crossing the road with slower traffic?
Have the 20mph limits inadvertently made our roads more dangerous?
People just seem to think that it’s fine to accelerate up to 50-60mph in a 30 just because the road ahead is clear and they want to hear their engine go brrr. They then brake suddenly (or lose control).
No police anywhere, but definitely no police on the London roads.
No deterrent other than speed cams, quality of driving has visibly nosedived since lock down in my opinion so doesn’t take a genius to see a knock on from that will be more “accidents”
But what about lime bikes? /s
Drove past a wrecked suv type vehicle that had clearly tried to take a sharp 20 mph corner at 50 and come off the road. Not impressed. Pedestrians everywhere it’s sheer luck nobody was hit (Highbury)
A real study needs to be done on the reduced number of police, the increase in high riding SUVS, and the prevalence of huge touch screen infotainment systems…
So having 20 mph limits in most of London has not helped – in fact pedestrian fatalities have gone up???
Weren’t 20 mph limits supposed to reduce them?
If you want to kill someone and get away with it: do it with a car.
The answer is obvious, we need 10mph speed limits!
People need to learn to use the roads properly. I drive and take it very seriously, always following the rules—it’s not worth risking other people’s safety or getting penalties just to arrive somewhere quicker.
That being said, I see so many cyclists running red lights, undertaking on corners, riding on the wrong side of the road, and doing other dangerous things.
I used to cycle but to be quite honest, I wouldn’t dare do it now, especially in East London, where I live. I regularly see reckless drivers speeding, using laughing gas, and crashing into street furniture. In fact, I’ve found my car scuffed at least once a year since moving there.
Perhaps people need to be more considerate and care about each other’s needs whilst on the road. People are becoming more selfish.
What doesnt seem clear from the article is whether the number of collisions are up or the number of deaths. They are quite different things.
The standard of driving has dropped since Covid.
I work on the roads and I have to keep my head on a swivel because you honestly can’t expect any driver these days to at least act in a normal professional manner.
When I learn to ride a motorcycle I was taught to treat every other motor vehicle operator to be an idiot that will kill you accidentally.
15 years later and I’m learning how true that was.
Not surprised as tower hamlets is basically a race track
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