Chancellor Scholz debates CDU rival Merz – DW – 02/09/2025

The two politicians also broadly agreed on the rejection of Donald Trump’s proposal for the US to take over and redevelop Gaza.

Scholz decried Trump’s proposal, saying specifically using the term “Riviera” to refer to the area was “terrible,” given the extent of destruction and suffering there. 

He also said the proposal would contravene international law. 

Merz said that he agreed. However, he cautioned that the proposal was one of several “irritating” ideas floated by the returning US president where it was not entirely clear how seriously it was meant or what may or may not materialize. 

He said it could prove wise to exercise patience as Trump’s new terms continues.

Chancellor Scholz said that his government had freed up “billions” to improve Germany’s rail network and the Deutsche Bahn national railway company.

“We are going to renovate all of it,” he said.

Merz said that the rail grid needed to remain in government hands, but “competition” could also operate on the rail network.

Scholz accused Merz of wanting to “take apart” Deutsche Bahn and privatize it.

Merz criticized Scholz’s planned 10% tax incentive, saying that the SPD was implementing policies of “higher debt, higher expenditure.”

He said that the plan would be a “flash in the pan that [would] cost a lot of money.”

Scholz said he was against Merz’s proposal of “tax reductions for all,” saying Berlin didn’t have the budget for it.

“This goes against the overwhelming majority of our citizens,” he said.

“If a company, according to the [Merz’s] suggestion … pays slightly less tax and then they invest abroad, we have gained nothing,” he said. Scholz said the tax burden should be eased for lower earners, including dropping the VAT on food.

A simple enough question, put to both leaders.

What if the struggling neoliberal FDP led by Christian Lindner misses the 5% hurdle needed to guarantee parliamentary representation? 

“[The parliament] would be poorer, but viable,” Merz said. 

Scholz smiled, and said that he agreed. 

Merz tried to hit Scholz on the economy again by questioning why Germany was performing worse than many comparable developed Western countries. 

Scholz retorted that this was largely because Germany, a highly industrialized European power, is more vulnerable to resource and energy prices than many other countries. 

“We are the country with the second highest industrial density among all [in the G7 group of major industrial countries],” he said.

Merz responded that Germany’s shutting down of its nuclear power plants had further exacerbated this issue and added pressure on energy prices domestically.

Scholz meanwhile claimed the nuclear power plants constituted “0.02%” of Germany’s GDP.

The left-leaning chancellor also went on to point out that the decision to decommission the nuclear plants ultimately traced its roots back to his predecessor Angela Merkel of Merz’s CDU.

Moderators moved on in the end to Germany’s constant flirtation with mild recession in the past three years, asking Olaf Scholz if Germany was goint through deindustrialization.

“The mood is bad, I would agree,” Scholz said. However, he disputed the deindustrialization argument.

“We have a huge number of people in gainful employment,” he stressed.

The incumbent chancellor said inflation was down after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and an unsteady ship had been stabilized, but that more needed to be done going forward. 

Merz disputed this, pointing to jobs and businesses relocating to other countries. 

“And these jobs and money is gone for good, it’s never going to return,” Merz said. He argued Scholz’s assessment had had “nothing to do with the reality.”

The debate moderator and the two lead candidates have focused the early stages of the debate on migration.

Some 15 minutes into the debate, the main issues under discussion have been either people entering or leaving Germany, or the anti-immigration Alternative for Germany (AfD). 

Scholz called for Germany to build more “deportation centers.”

He said that he had implemented such policies when he served as the mayor of Hamburg.

Scholz said that he “ensured that more people can be in detention custody,” adding that “legal loopholes” had been closed.
Merz said that Scholz’s arguments that he had implemented sufficient migration reforms was a “fairytale.”

Merz acknowledged that the Scholz government “has not stood idle” on tackling irregular migration.

However, he said that the numbers of deportations were still too low compared to the numbers of people illegally entering the country. Merz claimed the difference over the past three years constituted several times the population of Hanover. 

Scholz, meanwhile, countered that “there have never been tougher laws” than those his coalition implemented in recent years, saying improved figures in January demonstrated this. The chancellor predicted that the reduced rates would continue through 2025.

Chancellor Olaf Scholz was first asked about his doubts on Friedrich Merz’s pledge to work with the far-right AfD.

Scholz said that this had become a concern of his in light of the attempted migration reform proposal in parliament. 

Merz, meanwhile, reiterated his party would not cooperate with the AfD, saying they had major differences on core issues including NATO and the EU. 

He also disputed the notion that last week’s push to change the migration law with the AfD votes constituted “cooperation” with the party.

The two chancellor candidates have taken to the stage and the debate is underway. You can watch the DW stream in the window above.

The election campaign in Germany has been influenced by several violent crimes in public places involving people who’d applied for asylum.

According to several polls, migration policy is the top concern or issue in voters’ minds ahead of the vote. 

Psychologists however warn that this focus in the public discourse is itself a risk for a cohort of people who often already suffered mental trauma while fleeing their homes. 

Read Oliver Pieper’s full story here. 

Merz was in Nuremberg on Saturday for an election event with the Bavarian CSU and Markus SöderImage: Matthias Schrader/AP Photo/picture alliance

Merz spent his Saturday in Nuremberg in Bavaria for a CSU party conference ahead of the vote. 

He and Bavaria’s state premier, Markus Söder, both pledged that the CDU/CSU would not cooperate with the AfD under any circumstances following the vote. 

Meanwhile, Scholz said that he no longer found these claims credible, given the recent attempt to change migration laws with support from AfD parliamentarians.

This also coincided with more public protests triggered in large part by Merz’s flirtation with the anti-immigration party late in the campaign.

Read the full story here.

The duel is scheduled to begin at 8:15 p.m. German time (1915 GMT/UTC), or in 30 minutes’ time. 

DW television channel is set to broadcast the debate live on air and on our YouTube channel. 

Despite poor approval ratings, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is running again as the Social Democrats’ top candidate in the 2025 federal election.

Why did the German government lose support during his tenure?

Read more about how why Scholz’s coalition government became so unpopular.

Friedrich Merz, chairman of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), hopes to succeed Scholz as Germany’s next chancellor after the general election on February 23.

His center-right bloc (CDU/CSU) has long been leading comfortably in opinion polls at around 30%, making Merz the main challenger to Scholz and his center-left Social Democrats (SPD).

But his recent foray with the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) triggered shock waves throughout the country, with protesters decrying the collaboration as an unprecedented violation of the post-war taboo of cooperating with the far right.

Read more about Merz’s ambitions to be Germany’s new chancellor here.