Zelensky calls for creation of ‘army of Europe’ amid US support uncertainty

9 comments

1. More on this subject from other reputable sources:

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   – Reuters (A): [Vance meets with leader of German far-right AfD party](https://www.reuters.com/world/vance-meets-with-leader-german-far-right-afd-party-2025-02-14/)
   – Neue Zürcher Zeitung (B): [JD Vance at the security conference: Sharp criticism of the Europeans](https://www.nzz.ch/international/jd-vance-an-der-sicherheitzskonferenz-scharfe-kritik-an-den-europaeern-ld.1871134)
   – Politico (B+): [JD Vance attacks Europe over migration, free speech](https://www.politico.eu/article/us-vice-president-jd-vance-attack-europe-migration-free-speech/)
   – Independent (C+): [Donald Trump defends JD Vance’s claims Europe is ‘losing its freedom of speech’](https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/jd-vance-trump-europe-migration-free-speech-b2698662.html)

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2. I think this is inevitable. The problem will be that while the US wants to pull out of NATO, it will still want to dictate Europe’s defense strategy and dominate weapons purchases.

   In other words have their cake and eat it too.

3. It’s fucking time! Unbelievable to see that this guy is more conserned and responsible for Europe’s future than the fucking cowards who actually “lead” it.

4. Brilliantly said.

   USA leadership has broken faith and trust with Europe. Trump is prepared to tell Europeans to step up and manage their own security (he’s right) but then tells them that he and Putin will decide what peace and security will be in Europe! He’s sold out Europe and Ukraine and stabbed Europe in the back using USA position in NATO to try and manipulate all to his will. Trump, Vance and Hesgeth then had the audacity to lecture Europeans on democracy having denied a legal election (they still deny this was legal and confirmed to democratic principles and practices), enabled and supported an attempted coup to stop the peaceful transition of power and then released the perpetrators of that attempt from jail. USA is now going to be isolated and Europeans have shown they can increase defence spending and will do far more. The reality that Trump is Putin’s pawn has become clear, like the Emperor with no clothes, Trump’s game is laid bare for all to see.

   So here Zelensky hits the nail on the head. Trump wanted to leave NATO and said so publicly many times before. No doubt that is his end game, but currently he’s learned that he should keep USA in NATO to manipulate it to his will and use it as a lever to ensure he gets mineral and hydrocarbon deals from Russia to fill his pockets and the pockets of his kleptocratic cronies.

   NATO cannot trust a USA under Trump. The allies in no less than Europe and its allies in the Five Eyes group are restricting intelligence sharing – Trump can’t be trusted and has proven to pass the highest graded intelligence to those he shouldn’t.

   Trump thought he could strong arm Ukraine, Europe and NATO. Now the backlash in subtle speeches by diplomats and ministers make it clear there is commonality but there are deep divides and Europe WILL NOT ABANDON UKRAINE TO TRUMP/PUTIN plan!

   USA is going to be increasingly isolated. No plan made by Trump with Putin will be accepted unless it satisfies Ukrainian needs. But the Europeans know that any peacemaking with Putin will be short lived and be nought but an operational pause; time for Putin to rearm, reorganise, train and come back for his Third war in Ukraine. Moreover the relentless, courageous and amazing determination, guile and fortitude of Ukrainians has devastated the Russian military to a level where it’s falling apart. Indeed this is helped by sanctions, the mechanism Trump wants to lift as soon as Putin signs!

   The time to defeat Putin’s forces in Ukraine is NOW. To agree to anything that is nothing more than an operational pause, that allows Russia to rearm and reorganise, that doesn’t address reparations, war crimes, missing prisoners, abducted civilians and is NOT designed to prevent a further war, nor addresses Ukraine lands being returned is NOT to be accepted.

   Zelensky is right and I’m pretty sure Europeans won’t have to design their own military organisation. They have NATO, all they have to do is eject USA and accept Ukraine- fast tracked – and the best ally to have with an unparalleled track record of standing up to Russian imperial genocidal aggression, oppression and occupation -what better credentials could a prospective NATO member present for acceptance?

   NATO may also find it has a widening role with no less than Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and Japan and Taiwan. As USA has shown itself to be untrustworthy as an ally, China and North Korea may be emboldened and the pacific regional states may reach out to NATO for secuirty guarantees that USA cannot be relied upon to fulfil.

   USA – Trump has caused more damage to USA’s international credibility in 4 weeks than could be imagined since the end of WW2. He is a disgrace to all the fine Americans, past and present, who’ve toiled, sacrificed themselves and their futures for democracy to function. Underneath the subtle speeches USA citizens may not realise that Europeans are seething with Trump and his sad bunch of idiots.

5. Right, good idea but who will be his European partner to push this to completion? He doesn’t know who to talk to and I can’t see anyone willing to claim the topic as their own.

   It needs to be done outside of the EU framework because 27 countries will never agree on anything meaningful. But even with that, there’s no one with the will and dedication.

6. This is likely the weekend that results in a european variant of NATO, exluding hungary. The cynical part of this is that in the short term we can increase ukrainian support, both military and civilian, to further diminish russian capabilities and in the long term have more military R&D and manufacturing in Europe. This is looking more and more like one of those anime shows where the world is split into the EU, US and asia world order. You can bet on the fact that the ministers of defence and heads of state present at the Munich conference are returning back to their countries with intent to further their domestic military capabilities and plans to further european military cooperation. We’ve been piggybacking on US for so long, but that seem to have come to an abrupt end.

7. ha. like europeans are going to listen to zelensky. they don’t even consider ukraine as part of europe, regardless of what ukrainians say.

8. I agree. Countries ready for it should advance now with the creation of an unified army and external policy.

   It would work alongside EU and NATO, decide by 2/3 rule and focus on defense of European borders.

   We could build and purchase military equipment together and have joint command structure.

   Or, we could simply ask US to leave NATO and evolve it.

9. MEGA, Make Europe Great Again.
   Europe needs to spend all its military budget within Europe and UK and Canada and Australia.
   It’s the only true certainty for supply and support from now on.

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