Even without the USA, NATO would still win in a fight

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/26/russia-war-nato-usa-troops-tanks-missiles-numbers-ukraine/

by hideo_kuze_

36 comments

  2. Even without USA and Nato, Ukraine are showing what a shit heap the Russians are.

  3. Against whom? Looking at the headlines, it looks lime NATO will have to fight itself.

  4. Bulk up that nuclear arsenal and establish a plan to remove American influence from Europe.

  5. There is a lot of concern with the USA’s government cowering. And rightly so.

    PAX americana is dead. Current USA’s government really destroyed any international credibility left. Obama did not respect the [Budapest Memorandum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum) with his refusal to put boots on the ground in Ukraine back in 2014. And now Trump puts the final nail in the coffin with his [imperialistic](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkezj07rzro) and [transactional](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/11/why-is-trump-imposing-tariffs-and-which-countries-will-be-hit-hardest-in-charts) vision for the world and USA.

    Countries in south east Asia are probably learning a lot from this.

     

    There is also justified fear from the use of nuclear weapons.

    I personality don’t believe Russia would use nuclear weapons if military operations are confined to Ukraine territory. May I remind that Ukraine has struck inside Russia and that didn’t trigger it.

    In any case if we’re going to let the nuclear threat turn into a defeatist and surrenderist approach then might as well give away anything Russia wants. Today Ukraine. In 10 years Poland. In another 10 Germany.

    Putting boots on Ukraine is valid and warranted.

     

    Just wanted to post this link to remind everyone that not everything is doom and gloom. Europe can get through this and have their own PAX Europea. But courage and leadership is needed.

    No point crying over wasted years of poor leadership and bad decisions. The best time to plant a tree was in 2014, the second is now.

  6. To win a war, you need two things:

    The means to fight

    The will to fight

    If you lack either, it is a losing battle. Currently we lack both in Europe. This must change

  8. Yes that is true, but by sending poor and less fortunate to die while politicians and their families, rich people, eu bureaucrats and others that have more to lose are hiding in their mansion and are sending their thoughts and prayers. Same shit as with russia and ukraine.

  9. the question is not wheater european countries could fight and resist russians, but can they act united against the russian threat or will they be isolated and divided…

  11. Well i have no doubt that NATO would win it even without usa. Howether batles would be somewhere around Baltics/Poland. That means the 30 years we spent building our countries escaping occupation would go to shit. Would need start from squere 1. Millions of peoples lifes would be destroyed.

  12. I dont think anyone wins when those kind of superpowers fight

  14. It is not about who would won. Europe does not want to go to war (which is sane and healthy), facing Russia who is ready to

  15. No shit Sherlock. Even without USA NATO countries share an economy worth over $30 trillion with a population of more than 500 million people and almost $500 billion military spending. nazi russia has $1,7 trillion economy, 140 million people, spend $145 billion on its military waging a full scale war where it has mobilized all of its available resources. nazi russia has almost maxed out on its capabilities to wage war, lost almost 1 million men, 2/3 of its military equipment, while NATO hasn’t even started to invest in its military and is already 10 times stronger. NATO countries didn’t even sent adequate financial support to Ukraine and it almost single-handedly brought nazi russia to the verge of collapse. If not for trump and his pro-russian clique and if the West gave significant military help to Ukraine – russia could have been defeated in no time.

  16. If Ukraine alone can stop the Russians like that, combined we would fk them up

  17. I would win a fight with the crazy drug addict on the bus, but I wouldn’t want to get in that fight in the first place if I could help it.

  19. Against Russia? obviously, they’ve been ground to a halt for three years fighting just Ukraine, the manpower and weaponry that could be leveraged by just the UK, Germany and France alone would be far too much for the current shape of their ill-equipped, outmoded military.

    the problem is what the USA will do in this equation with the Toddler in Chief eyeing up Canada, Panama and Greenland

  20. If they actually try and don’t just roll over. They relied entirely too much on the US to bolster Ukraine since the war started. They did very little in 2014. Europe has tremendous potential but will it actually try to realize it? Who knows.

  21. NATO won’t fight, not for the lands that are within the “ru sphere of influence”™

    Non-story, but it is the torygraph.

  22. Ehh of course. Russia is strong against a baltic state but there is no way they are getting even past poland alone.

  23. Well yes, this is why russia, and lately usa too, are working tirelessly to divide Europe.

  24. Yea. What good is a country’s military that spends $1000 on each coffee mug anyways?

  26. Hardly a revelation that a few NATO allies ‘could’ defeat Russia if Russia were the aggressor.

    Problem with Europe is it lacks the will to actually do something until things are too bad to stop a war breaking out.

    We saw a pretty shameful narrative coming out of many EU nations when Russia invaded across the eastern border. Clearly didn’t learn anything from WW2 and the inaction of European nations against an increasingly bold Nazi regime.

  27. Russia can’t even route Ukraine…..

    The current White House occupant is all bluster and chaos and the majority of his crazy ideas are being jammed up in US courts.

    He is gonna try to hold the world hostage because he knows the world loves the US dollar. Many in his own party are starting to come out against him. Basically there are not enough crazies to sustain the idea beyond this 1 term and not even really beyond the first 2 years. I expect a huge Congressional loss by the GOP in 2026. 

  28. I think the u.s has an over inflated ego. The E.U would have a huge and highly capable force when combined.

  29. Europe has had the opportunity to fight russia in eastern ukraine and russia for the last 11 years. You sit and watch, then complain you might have to fight in an EU country?

  30. US troops never actually won a war after WW2, it’s just a big money racket

  34. Traditionally, the main role of the US in NATO, which Europe is not currently able to replace, is a huge nuclear arsenal, capable of completely destroying Russia in a second strike, if Russia uses nuclear weapons. Europe have their own nukes, specifically UK and France, but far fewer warheads than US and Russia, and not enough to guarantee “mutually Assured Destruction, which was the doctrine, that kept the Cold War Cold. Our options now is to either massively upgrade our nuclear Arsenals or find a new strategic doctrine to replace Mutually Assured Destruction.

  35. I would hope NATO with just European members would be able to defeat Russia lol. Ukraine will lose over time if it continues but it shows how much of a total slog even Ukraine was for Russia. Now Russia vs multiple countries? Not happening. 

    And I don’t think Russia would want to anyway

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