Whoops, should probably have said coat of arms in the title. Anyway, I saw one of these on a flag as I drove through Möriken-Wildegg today. I was really shocked, so Googled it when I got home and found out that there are several such emblems still used here. I searched to see if they had been posted here before, and didn’t spot anything, so thought I’d share! Here are some articles:
I mean, have you never seen the flags of Sardinia and Corsica? The moor’s head is a somewhat recurring theme in western european flags.
How is this racist?
And what, are you fascist or what? I think it’s very nice to have diversity within Swiss flags. I do think that Switzerland is a multi-ethnic country and that it shows our openness that we can represent people from other countries on our emblems.
I am proud to be Swiss whenever I see a house decorated with references to foreign culture. People spent a considerable amount of money and effort to represent them there for centuries.
And yes, I think we should find pride in that. I think it would be destructive to Switzerland if we ban all depictions of foreigners from our houses and flags. It would be destructive if we ban all the diversity in the name of a political correctness.
Because would it really be politically correct to wipe out these references to other cultures from our history? Would it be really politically correct to allow only mono-ethnical references? Wouldn’t it make foreigners to even more distant strangers?
Do you know the difference between flags and coat of arms?
Those aren’t flags.
Uhh.. representation I guess?
It would be cool to list which municipalities there are though
Ah yes an attempt to claim that there are racist emblems used as a coat of arms because it seems not to fit the US view of what is proper? Never mind there is a long historic tradition with the Moors that goes back over a thousand years?
Perhaps the OP would be wise to do some research on these, rather than just post them in a subreddit and seek attention? The OP‘s comment „Still in use“ says it all. Downvoted.
Switzerland will need to address its issue with racism eventually. These comments are quite telling.
Edit: and the downvotes. Thanks for proving my point.
OMG SO RACIST!!!! – is this how you expect us to react? Please stop this baiting just for the sake of stirring the pot.
Don’t see anything wrong here, if you know the actually history behind it.
Redditors being on Reddit I guess.
Oh Gott, bei so viel Rassismus müsst Ihr eine trigger Warnung einbauen. Xier bin jetzt total traumatisiert.
Hi responding to all the pissed of comments here, even there was no direct accusation.
Yes this is racist.
Is it the worst thing ever? No. Was it done with bad intentions? I don’t know, not necessarily. Are people defending this racist? No, not necessarily. But they should ask themselves why they feel so attacked.
Is this still racist? Most of them are. The problem is this kind of drawing of black people is connected to deeply racist and colonial imagery. It wasn’t this way (probably) when it was created, but that doesn’t mean you can ignore how it is understood today. If you accept it can be read as racist, it probably is. (there are reason no one sane is using swastikas around here any more, even though the symbol used to have different meanings and might be nice to use for some patterns)
This might be a racist, but does it really hurt anyone? It’s just a symbol and it’s some effort to change it and for some people it’s really important (or at least it will be when you try to change it). It’s hard to tell for me, I am a white Swiss person, but when people tell me something show a lack of respect, I try to honour that.
I personally was bullied in school, and I wouldn’t be hurt if someone today calls me any of the bad things they used to because of the contents. Like, what do you want with that childish stuff. But I would still think it is really a lack of respect for me if anyone used those old names. And if I asked them to stop and the person says don’t be offended, it’s just tradition, I wouldn’t feel better. (this comparison doesn’t work perfectly, I know)
I am in favour of changing it. It is the respectful thing to do. And there is a scale, the top left one is a lot more offensive, then the top right one, which I feel seems to be a compromise. Still using the colours, but refraining from using the colonial imagery.
So judging from this thread there are some (though not many) that think these are racist and should be removed, so here’s a couple of points for y’all:
1. At least some of these are depicting a literal Saint.
2. Most of go back to the middle ages, directly or indirectly.
3. If you really want to change a coat of arms because it’s depicting a black person, I hate to break it to you but you’re racist.
Can someone (maybe OP) provide us with the name of the corresponding “Gemeinde”? Would be interesting to learn more about them.
They originate from a time when that kind of racism was considered the normal thing.
26 comments
Whoops, should probably have said coat of arms in the title. Anyway, I saw one of these on a flag as I drove through Möriken-Wildegg today. I was really shocked, so Googled it when I got home and found out that there are several such emblems still used here. I searched to see if they had been posted here before, and didn’t spot anything, so thought I’d share! Here are some articles:
[from swissinfo.ch](https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/rassismus_kontroverses-schweizer-erbe/45829428)
[from Aargauerzeitung](https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schweiz/rassismus-debatte-mohren-in-zwei-aargauer-gemeindewappen-das-sind-die-grunde-ld.1228354)
Very odd.
I think they look cool and I say this in the least racist way possible
Why exactly do they have these? As far as I know all flags have a meaning and a story behind them. I wonder what those are.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohr_(Heraldik)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohr_(Heraldik))
It actually has quite a bit of history behind it.
I mean, have you never seen the flags of Sardinia and Corsica? The moor’s head is a somewhat recurring theme in western european flags.
How is this racist?
And what, are you fascist or what? I think it’s very nice to have diversity within Swiss flags. I do think that Switzerland is a multi-ethnic country and that it shows our openness that we can represent people from other countries on our emblems.
I am proud to be Swiss whenever I see a house decorated with references to foreign culture. People spent a considerable amount of money and effort to represent them there for centuries.
And yes, I think we should find pride in that. I think it would be destructive to Switzerland if we ban all depictions of foreigners from our houses and flags. It would be destructive if we ban all the diversity in the name of a political correctness.
Because would it really be politically correct to wipe out these references to other cultures from our history? Would it be really politically correct to allow only mono-ethnical references? Wouldn’t it make foreigners to even more distant strangers?
I feel neutral about it.
Some information about one of them (top-right)
[https://www.commune-avenches.ch/culture-loisirs/patrimoine-et-histoire/armoiries-le-maure-d-avenches.html](https://www.commune-avenches.ch/culture-loisirs/patrimoine-et-histoire/armoiries-le-maure-d-avenches.html)
Tldr: uncertain but ancient origin.
Americans are racist? i don’t get it
Ehm probably anti-racists
Do you know the difference between flags and coat of arms?
Those aren’t flags.
Uhh.. representation I guess?
It would be cool to list which municipalities there are though
Ah yes an attempt to claim that there are racist emblems used as a coat of arms because it seems not to fit the US view of what is proper? Never mind there is a long historic tradition with the Moors that goes back over a thousand years?
Perhaps the OP would be wise to do some research on these, rather than just post them in a subreddit and seek attention? The OP‘s comment „Still in use“ says it all. Downvoted.
Switzerland will need to address its issue with racism eventually. These comments are quite telling.
Edit: and the downvotes. Thanks for proving my point.
OMG SO RACIST!!!! – is this how you expect us to react? Please stop this baiting just for the sake of stirring the pot.
Don’t see anything wrong here, if you know the actually history behind it.
Redditors being on Reddit I guess.
Oh Gott, bei so viel Rassismus müsst Ihr eine trigger Warnung einbauen. Xier bin jetzt total traumatisiert.
Hi responding to all the pissed of comments here, even there was no direct accusation.
Yes this is racist.
Is it the worst thing ever? No. Was it done with bad intentions? I don’t know, not necessarily. Are people defending this racist? No, not necessarily. But they should ask themselves why they feel so attacked.
Is this still racist? Most of them are. The problem is this kind of drawing of black people is connected to deeply racist and colonial imagery. It wasn’t this way (probably) when it was created, but that doesn’t mean you can ignore how it is understood today. If you accept it can be read as racist, it probably is. (there are reason no one sane is using swastikas around here any more, even though the symbol used to have different meanings and might be nice to use for some patterns)
This might be a racist, but does it really hurt anyone? It’s just a symbol and it’s some effort to change it and for some people it’s really important (or at least it will be when you try to change it). It’s hard to tell for me, I am a white Swiss person, but when people tell me something show a lack of respect, I try to honour that.
I personally was bullied in school, and I wouldn’t be hurt if someone today calls me any of the bad things they used to because of the contents. Like, what do you want with that childish stuff. But I would still think it is really a lack of respect for me if anyone used those old names. And if I asked them to stop and the person says don’t be offended, it’s just tradition, I wouldn’t feel better. (this comparison doesn’t work perfectly, I know)
I am in favour of changing it. It is the respectful thing to do. And there is a scale, the top left one is a lot more offensive, then the top right one, which I feel seems to be a compromise. Still using the colours, but refraining from using the colonial imagery.
some information about the bottom left.
It depicts a saint
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius_(Heiliger)
🗿
So judging from this thread there are some (though not many) that think these are racist and should be removed, so here’s a couple of points for y’all:
1. At least some of these are depicting a literal Saint.
2. Most of go back to the middle ages, directly or indirectly.
3. If you really want to change a coat of arms because it’s depicting a black person, I hate to break it to you but you’re racist.
Can someone (maybe OP) provide us with the name of the corresponding “Gemeinde”? Would be interesting to learn more about them.
They originate from a time when that kind of racism was considered the normal thing.