SS: Only NATO countries, Japan, South Korea and Israel have the top fighter aircraft in the US arsenal, the F-35. The plane, which features advanced electronics and sensors, is billed as a multirole platform that can be used to achieve air superiority and conduct strike missions. It is competing in India against Russia’s 5th-generation stealth-like jet, the Su-57.
While both the Su-57 and the F-35 are competing against one another to fill India’s need for a significant number of new jets, the reality is the aircraft are considerably different.
IMO, If AMCA can’t be inducted by 2035 and we’re seeing timelines extent till 2040, it is better to induct two squadrons of F-35s to act as a credible deterrent especially as China’s 6th gens seem to be aiming for the early 2030s and NGAD as far as I’m aware has troubles in its development and Trump is planning to cut military expenditure and prioritise bborder patrol above all else which doesn’t bode well for the program.
SU-57 is in comparsion less reliable and tested and has been produced in far smaller numbers and we won’t get any meaningful ToT from it. Not to mention irking Trump possibly given how unpredictable he is.
Israel sold classified info on US tech to the Chinese in the 90s and still got modified F-35s. It’s not a perfect comparision, but I think that would also warrant the possibility of integrating with Indian systems to at least some extent.
So go with the F-35. Trump gets to boast about countries importing from the US and India doesn’t have a tech gap with both of its rivals at the very least and hopefully use whatever we learn from the experience for AMCA and extend that further to AMCA MK-II and whenever India’s 6th gen program gets going. Plus the F-35 is probably the best aircraft on the market right now.
~~The one pro of the SU-57 is that it looks cooler than the F-35 though.~~
I’m very ignorant on military affairs though, so this is hardly an educated opinion. Ideally, we would go all in on AMCA development and just get it out. Even if it turns out bad, you learn more lessons similar to how the Tejas went but given the disrepair in India’s procurement policy and issues across every department…I’m not confident on it coming out in time.
The unlikeihood of a conflict with China is both a saving grace and curse. It means we probably won’t get punished for our complacency and mistakes anytime soon…but it’s why we’ve been lazy and complacent in the first place.
One important difference in terms of how viable it is to field these aircraft is that Russia has built around 40 Su-57 since production started in 2019. Around 1,100 f-35 aircraft have been built. if you plan to field more than a handful in a reasonable timetable, it is fair to wonder whether Russia can deliver them l
So for those who only read about the western perspective.
India is not as stupid as you believe. They know the F-35 is clearly the better product.
The issue is multifold for India
India inherently dislikes relying on other nations for its defense needs. See what’s happening in western Europe/Ukraine right now due to US actions. India from its inception is skeptical of all parties. The US likes to maintain its defense edge. This means both sides are hesitant to ever engage in tech transfer. The US wants a dependent India to control India in a similar manner to what they do with Europe.
Russia is getting devastated economically right now. India can essentially pull Russia’s pants down and extract an amazing deal. Russia also has no hesitations /restrictions about allowing for tech transfer with India. Russia and India is essentially way more hands -off of a relationship traditionally than western Europe-india or USA-india . It’s cheaper for India and it still allows them to maintain control.
Prediction: India will never get F-35’s.
Wasn’t India planning to get the F21s (Indian version of F16)? And I heard Indian manufacturing was on offer as well. What happen to that?
Surely that would be a much better option than very expensive F35s which really aren’t much use for India’s needs or Su-57s which are basically vaporware at this point?
Didn’t India basically finance the design of the SU-57?
They aren’t comparable planes – they do very different things. It’s like if your neighbor tells you he can’t decide between a Ferrari and a dump truck. Is their criterion “buy shiny new plane”?
Would someone with technical knowledge answer this, please.
One could easily think, that with the current rapid technological advances in various types of drones, manned fighter jets would become obsolete within a fairly limited time frame?
It is indeed a quandary. First time I find myself agreeing with a Chinese media headline about India.
China now has 200 J20 jets and will have 400+ by 2030. It is also going to supply J35 jets to Pakistan by 2030.
For India’s options, on one hand you have the F35, which even if Trump sells and delivers it, can be disabled by a future US admin in the hour of need. On the other hand the Su57 is simply not that good.
Ideally it would have been best if Indian govt had funded the domestic project in 2013 but they just sat around on files only approve funds for the AMCA development in 2024.
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SS: Only NATO countries, Japan, South Korea and Israel have the top fighter aircraft in the US arsenal, the F-35. The plane, which features advanced electronics and sensors, is billed as a multirole platform that can be used to achieve air superiority and conduct strike missions. It is competing in India against Russia’s 5th-generation stealth-like jet, the Su-57.
While both the Su-57 and the F-35 are competing against one another to fill India’s need for a significant number of new jets, the reality is the aircraft are considerably different.
IMO, If AMCA can’t be inducted by 2035 and we’re seeing timelines extent till 2040, it is better to induct two squadrons of F-35s to act as a credible deterrent especially as China’s 6th gens seem to be aiming for the early 2030s and NGAD as far as I’m aware has troubles in its development and Trump is planning to cut military expenditure and prioritise bborder patrol above all else which doesn’t bode well for the program.
SU-57 is in comparsion less reliable and tested and has been produced in far smaller numbers and we won’t get any meaningful ToT from it. Not to mention irking Trump possibly given how unpredictable he is.
Israel sold classified info on US tech to the Chinese in the 90s and still got modified F-35s. It’s not a perfect comparision, but I think that would also warrant the possibility of integrating with Indian systems to at least some extent.
So go with the F-35. Trump gets to boast about countries importing from the US and India doesn’t have a tech gap with both of its rivals at the very least and hopefully use whatever we learn from the experience for AMCA and extend that further to AMCA MK-II and whenever India’s 6th gen program gets going. Plus the F-35 is probably the best aircraft on the market right now.
~~The one pro of the SU-57 is that it looks cooler than the F-35 though.~~
I’m very ignorant on military affairs though, so this is hardly an educated opinion. Ideally, we would go all in on AMCA development and just get it out. Even if it turns out bad, you learn more lessons similar to how the Tejas went but given the disrepair in India’s procurement policy and issues across every department…I’m not confident on it coming out in time.
The unlikeihood of a conflict with China is both a saving grace and curse. It means we probably won’t get punished for our complacency and mistakes anytime soon…but it’s why we’ve been lazy and complacent in the first place.
One important difference in terms of how viable it is to field these aircraft is that Russia has built around 40 Su-57 since production started in 2019. Around 1,100 f-35 aircraft have been built. if you plan to field more than a handful in a reasonable timetable, it is fair to wonder whether Russia can deliver them l
So for those who only read about the western perspective.
India is not as stupid as you believe. They know the F-35 is clearly the better product.
The issue is multifold for India
India inherently dislikes relying on other nations for its defense needs. See what’s happening in western Europe/Ukraine right now due to US actions. India from its inception is skeptical of all parties. The US likes to maintain its defense edge. This means both sides are hesitant to ever engage in tech transfer. The US wants a dependent India to control India in a similar manner to what they do with Europe.
Russia is getting devastated economically right now. India can essentially pull Russia’s pants down and extract an amazing deal. Russia also has no hesitations /restrictions about allowing for tech transfer with India. Russia and India is essentially way more hands -off of a relationship traditionally than western Europe-india or USA-india . It’s cheaper for India and it still allows them to maintain control.
Prediction: India will never get F-35’s.
Wasn’t India planning to get the F21s (Indian version of F16)? And I heard Indian manufacturing was on offer as well. What happen to that?
Surely that would be a much better option than very expensive F35s which really aren’t much use for India’s needs or Su-57s which are basically vaporware at this point?
Didn’t India basically finance the design of the SU-57?
They aren’t comparable planes – they do very different things. It’s like if your neighbor tells you he can’t decide between a Ferrari and a dump truck. Is their criterion “buy shiny new plane”?
Would someone with technical knowledge answer this, please.
One could easily think, that with the current rapid technological advances in various types of drones, manned fighter jets would become obsolete within a fairly limited time frame?
It is indeed a quandary. First time I find myself agreeing with a Chinese media headline about India.
China now has 200 J20 jets and will have 400+ by 2030. It is also going to supply J35 jets to Pakistan by 2030.
For India’s options, on one hand you have the F35, which even if Trump sells and delivers it, can be disabled by a future US admin in the hour of need. On the other hand the Su57 is simply not that good.
Ideally it would have been best if Indian govt had funded the domestic project in 2013 but they just sat around on files only approve funds for the AMCA development in 2024.
Does it matter anymore if it is US or Russian?
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