Needed change. 5 UNSC members having a vote on what we can and can’t do with our military and what peacekeeping missions we can participate in was a fantastic arrangement
Was a useless part of the triple lock always
Good. It’s pathetic that as a sovereign state Ireland needs to ask Russia and the USA pretty please before they can deploy their own soldiers.
Good. It was shambolic that in effect Putin, Trump and Xi had a veto over a key element of Irish foreign policy and our own president didn’t. I’m not saying our president should have a veto but definitely foreign dictators should not.
As per Gavan Reilly:
> Current system: any deployment of over 12 members needs Dáil, Govt and UN approval
> New system: deployment over 50 members needs Dáil and Govt approval and be in keeping with UN charter
The UN existed as a good-faith-assumed solution to international politics that only worked at all as long as you didn’t look to hard.
There is no longer even the pretense of good faith. The US and Russia are now openly colluding to strip Ukraine of her sovereign rights, rights they were both treaty bound to defend.
The nuclear proliferation treaty was supposed to halt the doomsday clock. We are closer to doomsday than we have ever been.
Climate change, which US and Russian bot farms have done a really good job on casting doubt on, ensures that in living time there will be foot scarcity on an unprecedented level.
Why we would trust the US and Russia to allow us decide what a peacekeeping mission is is beyond me. Especialy now that the US is threatening to withdraw from NATO
We should basically be going all in on the EU because otherwise we’re fucked.
Interesting strategy to stop referring it to as the triple lock.
Triple lock is a bit mad in this current moment. Particularly given the make-up of the permanent Security Council, specifically the Russians, but not in any way limited to them. China and US no great shakes either. In the past it was an honest attempt to act only where there was consensus among the armed and dangerous warlords of the world. But the world’s changed and the warlords are not the better for the change.
This is good, but it is going to be a bitter little pill to swallow eventually.
As a country we are very risk averse when it comes to any use of force in any context. We don’t have a strong military culture, we don’t have big national memorial events for war dead, or an entertainment subgenre which leans heavily on military themes.
And the triple lock has for a long time allowed us to maintain this sense of a peaceful, non-militaristic nation. We are proud of our peacekeepers and the job they do, but we know we’re not sending them into places where there are any specific hostile troops.
The removal of the UNSC veto will eventually result in the deployment of troops into more hostile regions, and more deaths of Irish troops than we are used to.
I just hope when that happens, that we choose to honour those who made the choice to join up and defend peace, rather than tearing our government apart for “letting” it happen.
The rest of the world just just up and leave the un and create un+ where no veto can exit. The American Russian and Chinese centric UN which vetos everything anyone one of them is buthurt about is a toothless joke and a waste of money and resources.
Every neutral country needs UN approval for peace keeping missions. By removing this requirement we are effectively ending our neutrality. The government are leading us into NATO membership!
Of all nations in Europe we would be the easiest to invade we have fuck all military no security guarantees and unlike the Swiss or Austrians have no one between us and some cunt dictator with a boat.
People are being very hostile towards the triple lock when it did serve a purpose. It allowed us to deploy our military assets on vital peacekeeping missions while maintaining our neutrality. In stable times when leaders and alliances are strong, it made sense and worked well. However, these are no longer stable times, so scrapping it is the right move.
Great news and long overdue. Remove this naive and nonsensical rule ASAP
So what does this mean for the defence forces in simple terms. More peacekeeping or less ? Or what
The UN is toothless anyway.. A waste of time being involved when Russia, China and the US can veto everything.
Is there any actual difference between government and Dail approval considering our whip system?
I’d prefer if Dail approval was a super majority so that the government actually had to convince the opposition of it
About time , we’re a global embarrassment with our finger wagging preaching and at the same our hand in anyone’s pocket that will give us something….time to grow up and do our bit
Absolutely no surprise here.
Be an EU army next then NATO.
This government is a disgrace on defence. Destroying a policy that has stood us well.
The agenda has been pushed for months.
It definitely needs reform, but It’s also on us to make sure we’re not using the military for foreign wars. It’s easy to say we won’t do it now, but what about 5, 10, 50 years down the line?
Do we even have 50 to spare?
People in Ireland think that the UN is flawless. It is absolutely not.
Surprised to see such widespread approval of this. I understand the logic proposed by the government on why they’re doing this (though cynically I think there’s other forces at play), but I am sad to see us removing the triple lock. I think Ireland being military neutral has been something to be proud of, and any further militarisation is something we should mourn as a loss
22 comments
Needed change. 5 UNSC members having a vote on what we can and can’t do with our military and what peacekeeping missions we can participate in was a fantastic arrangement
Was a useless part of the triple lock always
Good. It’s pathetic that as a sovereign state Ireland needs to ask Russia and the USA pretty please before they can deploy their own soldiers.
Good. It was shambolic that in effect Putin, Trump and Xi had a veto over a key element of Irish foreign policy and our own president didn’t. I’m not saying our president should have a veto but definitely foreign dictators should not.
As per Gavan Reilly:
> Current system: any deployment of over 12 members needs Dáil, Govt and UN approval
> New system: deployment over 50 members needs Dáil and Govt approval and be in keeping with UN charter
The UN existed as a good-faith-assumed solution to international politics that only worked at all as long as you didn’t look to hard.
There is no longer even the pretense of good faith. The US and Russia are now openly colluding to strip Ukraine of her sovereign rights, rights they were both treaty bound to defend.
The nuclear proliferation treaty was supposed to halt the doomsday clock. We are closer to doomsday than we have ever been.
Climate change, which US and Russian bot farms have done a really good job on casting doubt on, ensures that in living time there will be foot scarcity on an unprecedented level.
Why we would trust the US and Russia to allow us decide what a peacekeeping mission is is beyond me. Especialy now that the US is threatening to withdraw from NATO
We should basically be going all in on the EU because otherwise we’re fucked.
Interesting strategy to stop referring it to as the triple lock.
Triple lock is a bit mad in this current moment. Particularly given the make-up of the permanent Security Council, specifically the Russians, but not in any way limited to them. China and US no great shakes either. In the past it was an honest attempt to act only where there was consensus among the armed and dangerous warlords of the world. But the world’s changed and the warlords are not the better for the change.
This is good, but it is going to be a bitter little pill to swallow eventually.
As a country we are very risk averse when it comes to any use of force in any context. We don’t have a strong military culture, we don’t have big national memorial events for war dead, or an entertainment subgenre which leans heavily on military themes.
And the triple lock has for a long time allowed us to maintain this sense of a peaceful, non-militaristic nation. We are proud of our peacekeepers and the job they do, but we know we’re not sending them into places where there are any specific hostile troops.
The removal of the UNSC veto will eventually result in the deployment of troops into more hostile regions, and more deaths of Irish troops than we are used to.
I just hope when that happens, that we choose to honour those who made the choice to join up and defend peace, rather than tearing our government apart for “letting” it happen.
The rest of the world just just up and leave the un and create un+ where no veto can exit. The American Russian and Chinese centric UN which vetos everything anyone one of them is buthurt about is a toothless joke and a waste of money and resources.
Every neutral country needs UN approval for peace keeping missions. By removing this requirement we are effectively ending our neutrality. The government are leading us into NATO membership!
Of all nations in Europe we would be the easiest to invade we have fuck all military no security guarantees and unlike the Swiss or Austrians have no one between us and some cunt dictator with a boat.
People are being very hostile towards the triple lock when it did serve a purpose. It allowed us to deploy our military assets on vital peacekeeping missions while maintaining our neutrality. In stable times when leaders and alliances are strong, it made sense and worked well. However, these are no longer stable times, so scrapping it is the right move.
Great news and long overdue. Remove this naive and nonsensical rule ASAP
So what does this mean for the defence forces in simple terms. More peacekeeping or less ? Or what
The UN is toothless anyway.. A waste of time being involved when Russia, China and the US can veto everything.
Is there any actual difference between government and Dail approval considering our whip system?
I’d prefer if Dail approval was a super majority so that the government actually had to convince the opposition of it
About time , we’re a global embarrassment with our finger wagging preaching and at the same our hand in anyone’s pocket that will give us something….time to grow up and do our bit
Absolutely no surprise here.
Be an EU army next then NATO.
This government is a disgrace on defence. Destroying a policy that has stood us well.
The agenda has been pushed for months.
It definitely needs reform, but It’s also on us to make sure we’re not using the military for foreign wars. It’s easy to say we won’t do it now, but what about 5, 10, 50 years down the line?
Do we even have 50 to spare?
People in Ireland think that the UN is flawless. It is absolutely not.
Surprised to see such widespread approval of this. I understand the logic proposed by the government on why they’re doing this (though cynically I think there’s other forces at play), but I am sad to see us removing the triple lock. I think Ireland being military neutral has been something to be proud of, and any further militarisation is something we should mourn as a loss
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