Italian Giorgia Meloni proposes extending NATO’s Article 5 to Ukraine without giving it NATO memberships.

by GermanDronePilot

35 comments

  2. I remember when she was elected and I was scared she was gonna be an isolationist, but she’s definitely suprised and impressed me in the geopolitical front.

  3. Oh man, Elon is not going to like this photo knowing how he seems to like Meloni 🤣

  4. She has more testicular fortitude than most male politicians.

  6. Italy doesn’t like USA anymore just as the rest of the free world.

  8. That’s amazing. With America now being a russian satellite state we need Europe to step up with courage to face evil.

  10. Wait…isn’t she a bit of a Trump-ist, right wing? Does she also recognize that Russia is a threat?

  11. i wasn’t expecting that. Its actually an interesting devellopement. Europe is like a hobbit. you can live inside for decade and still be surprised by it ^^

  13. She is hard right… but what she is saying is very right.

    Right wing Marine Le Pen of France and Dutch Geert Wilders are also continuing to support aid for Ukraine, while Britain’s Nigel Farage is sitting on the fence because he is best buddies with Trump and will not criticise or go against the supreme being.

  15. I hope genuine affection for him and his people, most prominently on display since the spat, translates into substantive deployment of force.

  16. While you *could* amend Article 6 so that an attack on any of the Parties in geographic Europe (instead of the current clause, which limits it to territory of the Parties with a bunch of caveats and exemptions), you’d have to invoke Article 12 to do it and basically redraft the entire treaty.

    For those noting that people like Orban would try to veto it — that wouldn’t really matter. NATO v2.0 would require the full ratification process for all the Parties as if they were starting over from the beginning, mostly because they basically are. It would be an opt-in sort of thing. Hungary could very well decide to not accede to v2.0, which is their right as a sovereign nation, but it would be effectively ending its membership with NATO entirely.

    It’s certainly an option and would likely be the best thing for Europe overall, but would introduce all sorts of extra chaos and uncertainty in the near term. Given current politics and the fact my government has apparently decided to go full on fascist and get into bed with Russia, I think it’s far more likely that Ukraine winds up under the EU’s collective defense umbrella than NATO’s. The EU’s CSDP has stronger language than NATO’s Article 5, though that has historically been a moot point because NATO members in Europe either joined the EU or are in ongoing membership talks.

  18. I never thought about it. Overall it would weaken the article 5 response. But it wouldn’t require an unanimous approval that frankly Ukraine wouldn’t be able to get. Ukraine also doesn’t need every country to get involved to protect it against Russia.

  19. wow, well …whoever thought Meloni would think, let alone suggest something like that.. im going to have to revise my thoughts on her, i mean..neo-fascist to Guardian of Democracy.. whatever she has, can we inject Orban and Fico with it please

  20. That does not really make sense, article 5 is the main thing in the NATO, if you grant that to UA, then you could just take them as a member anyway. But of course that won’t work because some members will be against it (and rightfully so at the current state, because it would instantly throw everybody at war; after UA has properly won the war and gained back all their territory, it does make a lot of sense of course).

    So if she is saying that Italy and a “coalition of the willing” would participate in the war without every other member of NATO, then she is of course free to do that right away. Ukraine is the victim of an illegal war and thus other countries are legally allowed to assist them.

    Of course then Italy will be subject to Russian attacks, that won’t help Italy and probably it won’t help Ukraine either. Italy might also not be able to call article 5 for itself then because they joined the war by themselves.

    But in any case, I’m pretty sure that for a certain amount of money that Italy or any other supporting country would be investing in this war, a direct financial help to Ukraine is the most effective way. Second best option is to produce stuff in the other country, but a very inefficient way would be to send own troops. Just look up what Afghanistan had cost per year, for only a rather low number of units, very insufficient for the Ukraine battlefield. Instead of one billion of financial aid for material deliveries and training of Ukrainian soldiers, we would probably have to shell out ten billion (or several tens) to achieve the same military effect with own expeditionary units.

    Of course it is plausible to assume that such unrealistic proposals are just thrown into the public debate to push the willingness to simply increase the spending on Ukraine help.

  21. So Italy is talking about a regular security guarantee any country can grant?

  24. I’m sorry, but this is nothing to celebrate. If article 5 were to be triggered we are looking at deaths in the millions to tens of millions at the least. There is nothing “happy” about the current circumstance. I don’t think many of you realize the events that could set in motion, not just in Europe, but around the globe.

  27. Who would have thought she could actually be trusted regarding Ukraine

  28. Hot damn, fast track us to WW3. The moment NATO troops are actively in combat in Ukraine then Putin is gonna lose his fucking mind. Bold move cotton, lets see how this pans out. I feel for anyone with children of military age.

  29. When will Italy put troops on the ground in Ukraine? Seems like all talk and empty promises.

  30. Europe trying to drag us into a world War again who would have thought

  31. I’ll take *Things That Will Never Happen* for eight hundred, Alex!

  32. wait…. She’s the one who is on record saying she won’t commit any troops to a peacekeeping force in Ukraine, right? If so, who cares what she thinks.

  33. More empty promises. If you’re a NATO country and you want to give Ukraine NATO protection, get your troops into Ukraine now. No one is stopping you.

  34. Promises with other people’s money & militaries. 🤡

    The ONLY article 5 guarantee that means shit is the US involvement.

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