Séamas O’Reilly has had some very funny moments online but he’s a dogshit social affairs commentator.
He barely acknowledges the existence of the problem and doesn’t explain what it is before shifting rapidly towards the Soft Left safe ground of saying “austerity in England” was the problem all along.
It’s mindless waffle.
As someone who became a father to a boy and had a bumpy personal ride with the whole thing, I have genuinely come to think that its pretty common in immature boys and men to do absolutely anything other than improve themselves. I am not proud of my behavior when I was at my lowest and I was surprised at my reaction to the situation psychologically. I feel like I deflected away from stepping up to be a father with excuses and by exaggerating the situation and trying to convince everyone how hard it was for me personally.
But speaking more generally, If you do something sexist for example, the mental gymnastics kick in and rather than reflect on any validity, you jump right to blaming women for having their standards set to high for what counts as sexism and dismiss it. People like tate just confirm and codify these sentiments for them. In the social media enabled era, I believe they just profit off the less desirable elements in male psychology, regardless of the ill effects it will have on a generation. I don’t know what the solution is other than removing people like tate from the equation, because I think that tendency has always been in men. Its not some new thing in my opinion. Its just more convenient to exploit now.
Hot take alert but here’s my two cents.
I don’t think Ireland suffers as much from this as we didn’t have the same type of industrial based economy as say the North of England or say the American rust belt but if you consider that young men have been raised to an extent by fathers who grew up with a very “traditional” gender based roles in the home.
In the past, say 50s to lates 80s, a man with a limited education could to an extent leave school at 16-18 and enter relatively stable employment upon which he could buy a house, support a family, get a pension all while his wife stayed at home fully reliant on his income. This worked for many many people but I can only be said that it was a very unequal power dynamic
Globalisation, women’s equality, sexual liberation and technology has upended these structures.
This same group of young men say lacking in education are now bereft of equivalent opportunity. The jobs available to them are now minimum wage, zero hours and unstable. They are now entering a world where their female counterparts are better educated then them, earning more then them and no longer willing to accept or enter into relationships were a man expects a mother figure to raise the kids, clean the house. Relationships now must be entered into as equals and these women are few to pick and choose partners.
This is not the world of their fathers.
It must also be stated that the very type of employment that these young men are now specifically seeking tend to be over represented with people coming from immigrant backgrounds and communities.
This in my opinion has led to a situation where globalism and capitalism has in less than a generation completely changed the previously established structures.
The above is a very hard story to tell though. It’s much much easier though to just blame women and people who don’t look like you.
Mary won’t date you.. it’s not because she doesn’t see you as a potential life partner, it’s cause she’s a sl*t all over Tinder dating loads of other guys.
Can’t get a job or the pays shit, it’s not because a Private Equity firm run by a MBA chasing shareholder profit against all else if fucking you over it’s Mohammed from Syria who’s to blame.
Social media, bro podcasts etc etc have allowed a few men monetise and more recently weapons these simplistic anti female and anti immigrant narratives because the actual causes are far more complex then can ever be explained in a podcast or this rambling Reddit post by me.
I don’t think it’s a particularly well written article, but I _think_ he has a point if I’m interpreting it correctly.
In the case of so-called “incels” for example, research suggests that (contrary to popular perception) they aren’t unusually right wing, nor are the large majority aggressively mysoginistic online (though there’s obviously a sub-section who are so).
What they overwhelmingly _are_ though is less likely to have social support, more likely to be suffering from anxiety and depression, less likely to be employed or in school, more likely to ruminate on past experiences of victimization, more likely to be living with their parents, etc.
Which, as the article somehwat alludes to, are factors that correlate with other “male” issues such as relative underperformance in education, higher rates of suicide, higher rates of drug and alcohol abuse, higher rates of gambling addiction, etc.
In other words, while codemning the toxic online environment and the predatory influence of grifters like Tate is absolutely correct, the less zeitgeisty factors still remain the far more important ones: economic opportunities, education supports, mental health supports, addiction supports, opportunities for social engagement, etc.
Having skimmed through, it seems to be yet another swing and miss ignoring all the issues young men specifically face in this country. As long as we keep up this nonsense, we will get absolutely nowhere in stopping the rise of far right influence on our youth.
So the journalist is saying the lack of third spaces and social amenities has made the problem worse?
Oh boy… this sub will NOT like hearing that…
> Economically depressed young men are aggressively targeted with the oldest, most seductive pitch there is — **money for nothing** — by bad faith actors with enormous wealth
Landlords and those pushing for the removal of Deemed Disposal?
The article mentions that boys are outperformed by girls in school. Completely my own opinion but I think there is a maturity gap around the ages where assessment takes place. I can’t help but feel that boys should start school a year later than girls. I’m afraid to suggest in public for fear of being labelled a misogynist for wanting to level the playing field.
I’m not a fan of his dismissal of Robert Lowe. Don’t get me wrong he is talking nonsense but it does touch on a subject that needs to be addressed.
It’s true young, white men are asking what they did wrong. Plenty feel like they have been left holding the bag on historical issues.
It doesn’t matter if their feeling are right or wrong. It’s their truth.
A normal life for most young men in Ireland is over anyways. We have our own Mas to tell us we’re ugly and undesirable most certainly don’t need Tate to tell us that
Excellent point, well made!
> boys underperform girls in education, report higher rates of homelessness, drug and alcohol dependency, gambling addiction, and suicide.
Skill issues, each and every one.
Fear sells better than hope and the latter requires more work, self examination etc
Fear sells better than hope and the latter requires more work, self examination etc
Fear sells better than hope and the latter requires more work, self examination etc
Hot take: I feel like most people wouldn’t have a clue who Andrew Tate or the like were without people who seemingly detest him and his like constantly amplifying them.
And vampires.
In all seriousness I think one of the problem is these grifters talk too them while everyone else (from their perspective) talks down, at, or about them.
21 comments
> is their appeal merely a reaction to the woke messaging emasculating young men elsewhere?
The thesis question is never defined except for a definition provided by Farage. How do young men/boys in Ireland feel emasculated? By what?
Netflix have an absolutely excellent fictional drama series at the moment in relation to this broad issue
[Adolescence – Netflix](https://www.netflix.com/title/81756069)
Séamas O’Reilly has had some very funny moments online but he’s a dogshit social affairs commentator.
He barely acknowledges the existence of the problem and doesn’t explain what it is before shifting rapidly towards the Soft Left safe ground of saying “austerity in England” was the problem all along.
It’s mindless waffle.
As someone who became a father to a boy and had a bumpy personal ride with the whole thing, I have genuinely come to think that its pretty common in immature boys and men to do absolutely anything other than improve themselves. I am not proud of my behavior when I was at my lowest and I was surprised at my reaction to the situation psychologically. I feel like I deflected away from stepping up to be a father with excuses and by exaggerating the situation and trying to convince everyone how hard it was for me personally.
But speaking more generally, If you do something sexist for example, the mental gymnastics kick in and rather than reflect on any validity, you jump right to blaming women for having their standards set to high for what counts as sexism and dismiss it. People like tate just confirm and codify these sentiments for them. In the social media enabled era, I believe they just profit off the less desirable elements in male psychology, regardless of the ill effects it will have on a generation. I don’t know what the solution is other than removing people like tate from the equation, because I think that tendency has always been in men. Its not some new thing in my opinion. Its just more convenient to exploit now.
Hot take alert but here’s my two cents.
I don’t think Ireland suffers as much from this as we didn’t have the same type of industrial based economy as say the North of England or say the American rust belt but if you consider that young men have been raised to an extent by fathers who grew up with a very “traditional” gender based roles in the home.
In the past, say 50s to lates 80s, a man with a limited education could to an extent leave school at 16-18 and enter relatively stable employment upon which he could buy a house, support a family, get a pension all while his wife stayed at home fully reliant on his income. This worked for many many people but I can only be said that it was a very unequal power dynamic
Globalisation, women’s equality, sexual liberation and technology has upended these structures.
This same group of young men say lacking in education are now bereft of equivalent opportunity. The jobs available to them are now minimum wage, zero hours and unstable. They are now entering a world where their female counterparts are better educated then them, earning more then them and no longer willing to accept or enter into relationships were a man expects a mother figure to raise the kids, clean the house. Relationships now must be entered into as equals and these women are few to pick and choose partners.
This is not the world of their fathers.
It must also be stated that the very type of employment that these young men are now specifically seeking tend to be over represented with people coming from immigrant backgrounds and communities.
This in my opinion has led to a situation where globalism and capitalism has in less than a generation completely changed the previously established structures.
The above is a very hard story to tell though. It’s much much easier though to just blame women and people who don’t look like you.
Mary won’t date you.. it’s not because she doesn’t see you as a potential life partner, it’s cause she’s a sl*t all over Tinder dating loads of other guys.
Can’t get a job or the pays shit, it’s not because a Private Equity firm run by a MBA chasing shareholder profit against all else if fucking you over it’s Mohammed from Syria who’s to blame.
Social media, bro podcasts etc etc have allowed a few men monetise and more recently weapons these simplistic anti female and anti immigrant narratives because the actual causes are far more complex then can ever be explained in a podcast or this rambling Reddit post by me.
I don’t think it’s a particularly well written article, but I _think_ he has a point if I’m interpreting it correctly.
In the case of so-called “incels” for example, research suggests that (contrary to popular perception) they aren’t unusually right wing, nor are the large majority aggressively mysoginistic online (though there’s obviously a sub-section who are so).
What they overwhelmingly _are_ though is less likely to have social support, more likely to be suffering from anxiety and depression, less likely to be employed or in school, more likely to ruminate on past experiences of victimization, more likely to be living with their parents, etc.
Which, as the article somehwat alludes to, are factors that correlate with other “male” issues such as relative underperformance in education, higher rates of suicide, higher rates of drug and alcohol abuse, higher rates of gambling addiction, etc.
In other words, while codemning the toxic online environment and the predatory influence of grifters like Tate is absolutely correct, the less zeitgeisty factors still remain the far more important ones: economic opportunities, education supports, mental health supports, addiction supports, opportunities for social engagement, etc.
Having skimmed through, it seems to be yet another swing and miss ignoring all the issues young men specifically face in this country. As long as we keep up this nonsense, we will get absolutely nowhere in stopping the rise of far right influence on our youth.
So the journalist is saying the lack of third spaces and social amenities has made the problem worse?
Oh boy… this sub will NOT like hearing that…
> Economically depressed young men are aggressively targeted with the oldest, most seductive pitch there is — **money for nothing** — by bad faith actors with enormous wealth
Landlords and those pushing for the removal of Deemed Disposal?
The article mentions that boys are outperformed by girls in school. Completely my own opinion but I think there is a maturity gap around the ages where assessment takes place. I can’t help but feel that boys should start school a year later than girls. I’m afraid to suggest in public for fear of being labelled a misogynist for wanting to level the playing field.
I’m not a fan of his dismissal of Robert Lowe. Don’t get me wrong he is talking nonsense but it does touch on a subject that needs to be addressed.
It’s true young, white men are asking what they did wrong. Plenty feel like they have been left holding the bag on historical issues.
It doesn’t matter if their feeling are right or wrong. It’s their truth.
A normal life for most young men in Ireland is over anyways. We have our own Mas to tell us we’re ugly and undesirable most certainly don’t need Tate to tell us that
Excellent point, well made!
> boys underperform girls in education, report higher rates of homelessness, drug and alcohol dependency, gambling addiction, and suicide.
Skill issues, each and every one.
Fear sells better than hope and the latter requires more work, self examination etc
Fear sells better than hope and the latter requires more work, self examination etc
Fear sells better than hope and the latter requires more work, self examination etc
Hot take: I feel like most people wouldn’t have a clue who Andrew Tate or the like were without people who seemingly detest him and his like constantly amplifying them.
And vampires.
In all seriousness I think one of the problem is these grifters talk too them while everyone else (from their perspective) talks down, at, or about them.
https://preview.redd.it/hdbsk7l16ipe1.png?width=398&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4177bc4caa3aaba612382656a9eba7e6eab0692
A young man can work on a construction site labouring & make more money than a young girl will make in a shop say.
Comments are closed.