* Students entering Senior Cycle in September 2023 will sit Paper One in English and Irish at the end of fifth year, instead of at the end of sixth year.
* Two new subjects – ‘Drama, Film and Theatre Studies’ and ‘Climate Action and Sustainable Development’ – are to be introduced.
* Under the plan, new assessment components will be worth 40% of the total marks, with the written examination making up 60% of the final score.
I like these changes. Less riding on a final exam and it’s very similar to the experience in third level.
Happy to finally see film studies at second level, it’s long overdue.
I really like that idea. Take some pressure off the students anyway.
For the people saying that this will be less pressure on the students. No. One thousand times, no.
2 years wrecked instead of one
Nice
This is a good idea. The major thing for students will be getting the importance of the fifth year exams into their head I think. In college people often forget 30% of their final GPA is from the penultimate year etc .
As a teacher – loving this news. It’s only fair that there’s some continuous assessment in there as that is what they’ll experience in college anyway. And getting two exams out of the way in 5th year is another nice reliever for students.
These seem like perfectly sensible changes that will bring second level learning more in line with third level. The new subjects are good too for a comprehensive education.
I think this is a terrible idea… how do you expect 16 year olds to take life defining exams seriously?
I know when I was in fifth year there was no chance of me taking any exams serious, just watch young people’s stress levels go through the roof.
Straight from junior cert into more important exams. Good job Ireland🥴
Isnt it weird that as a teacher I find out about exam and course changes exclusively on social media??
My employers, the department of education tell us nothing. Its such a joke.
Anyway, these changes sound like a good move in the right direction!
My major concern with English is that students are jumping from no extended essay at junior level to writing one in 5th year- If they skip TY that is disastrous, and it runs the risk of turning TY into the first year of senior cycle.
Also, I would have thought the gradual development of two years worth of functional writing was a good thing; Now I would think it will be crammed into the final two terms of 5th year instead. This is even more of a concern in Irish where language skills need as much time as possible to progress.
I’m genuinely not trying to be negative, but change for change sake isn’t good, and splitting papers by topic isn’t the right way to go. Splitting the course into Year 1 Poet/Novel/etc and Year 2 Poet/Novel/etc with progression in difficulty would have made more sense.
Done this in LCA,leaving cert applied.
I had my leaving passed before I even sat down for my first test
It took a four years to decide that the only thing that’s going to happen is to pull two papers in to fifth year? And it’s going to take another year for it to be executed? And I can see several glaring problems with their suggestion straight off the bat….
This was billed as a major reform to how we examine students so that they would be better prepared and this is what they came up with? What a waste of time and money.
actually a good change, the issue is, English and Irish both have a lot of material that is usually learned over 5th and 6th year with a short time left for revision, how is this going to play out now? Is the amount of material reduced or is there an increase in English and Irish classes in students timetables?
I can see some other problems in this too, the way I did school was to not give a shit about any work in 5th year and then work over 6th year. Gave me a lot of free time to enjoy myself, students don’t have that option anymore
Definitely has its pros and cons
I’m very anti-continuous assessment as a teacher, I know it’s the minority view but in my mind it only leads to more stress amongst students and greater rates of teacher interference in grades (grade-inflation, cheating, whatever)
Also, why change now? Can we not have a break? The Junior cycle is only just up and running. We’re emerging from a period of massive upheaval in the way we teach and learn and now we’re starting over again. Great.
I’m happy to be proved wrong, but if it is anything like the new junior cycle my subject will be dumbed down, given stressful extra components, and favour kids whose parents can help them or whose teachers are willing to cheat.
I teach physics and applied maths. In my subjects and I’m guessing in every other subject, students abilities develop over the 2 years. Although I might cover a particular topic in November of 5th year there’s no chance students will be able to do leaving cert questions based on the topic in 5th year. It takes 2 full years of training and practice to develop to that level.
If you are to do half the leaving cert in 5th year you will have to significantly reduce the difficulty. You cannot expect students to have fully develop their maths skills by that point.
“Teacher-based assessment of these additional components will be externally moderated by the State Examinations Commission.”
What does this mean? We assessed our students due to Covid and that goodwill has been turned against us? That’s what it feels like. For the LC we shouldn’t have to assess our students. Ireland is a small country and that doesn’t bode well for the one really good thing the LC does – the fairness and transparency of the marking process.
This is a fantastic idea.
Don’t like the idea of fucking up in 5th year and then having to sit more exams the next year. Like unless they change the curriculum to put the easier stuff earlier
I’m thankful I did the LC in 2019. It’s been total shambles the last 2 years. My english teacher always gave me H4s and low H3s in my work but in the real thing I got a high H2. It’s 100% biased no getting around it.
I don’t like the idea of sitting exams in 5th year. Like we were nowhere near ready then and it limits teachers in their flexibility of teaching.
I think CAs should only be kept for “practical” subjects like DCG etc.
at the end of the day the pre-2020 way was fair and anonymous. You either studied or you didn’t.
From now on just 60 percent of the Leaving Cert will be externally, anonymously marked. This is a sneaky form of dumbing down.
The officials in the DES are obsessed with the ‘educational advantage’ of the kids in fee-paying schools, and have been looking for a way erode it for years. The Covid-induced ‘calculated grades’ were a godsend to them, because it allowed them to implement what RTÉ’s Education Correspondent Emma O’ Kelly called ‘social tilting’ – in other words rigging an anonymous and fair exam system.
Obviously it is far easier and much quicker to rig the system than to invest the necessary resources in disadvantaged areas – from primary right the way through to the end of secondary – so that the kids can compete for limited places on an unrigged basis with kids in wealthier areas.
Before people down vote this, ask yourself, if you had an aneurism today, would you like to be operated on by the surgeon who did best in the externally marked exam, or the surgeon who didn’t, but benefitted from ‘social tilting’?
Obviously the first, right? Because brain surgery matters. It’s literally life and death.
So how about when you have to drive a bus across the bridge built by which engineer?
Or being represented by which lawyer when you’re arrested for something you didn’t do?
Maybe we could have ‘social tilting’ for jobs that don’t matter – but if so we should be open and transparent about it.
At some point people have to accept there’s no getting away from the stress of the Leaving Cert, it’s an important exam. The best system is one that’s unbiased, teachers should play no part in grading their own students work, it has to be anonymous. We saw the results of predicted grades.
Honestly having done the LC last year (sitting most of my exams still) these changes dont sit right enough with me. For one sitting papers in 5th year just seems wrong to me, for me at least I didnt develop a lot into the subjects (like Irish or my Maths) until everything sort of “clicked” in 6th year.
Also for the 2 new subjects couldnt these have just like, been integrated into the english and geography courses rather than adding 2 new subjects that will just take up what is essentially precious time.
And then for CAs itll probably just be more stress, I personally was stressed out enough with the History, Geography and Engineering projects.
As a teacher I can say with certainty that there will be NO assessing for state certification by teachers. The ASTI fought long and hard to stop this nonsense at junior Cycle. Needless to say they’ll start going on about external moderation of random papers but we all know the game can be jigged once anonymity is gone. As an English teacher I’m also qualified to say “they can shovel it up their holes”.
Teachers assessing their own students doesn’t work. Predicted grades process showed that.
Dunno why they’re trying to bring that in.
Definitely in favour of spreading out exams and assessments but only fair way is anonymous and transparent corrections.
Wonder what the Dept be thinking sometimes
Absolutely the right direction to go in, but I hope they’re not just planning to take the exact same exam structure and just change the timelines. You can’t just take an exam developed for 6th year students and just give it to 5th year students without any other changes.
Heck, I’d love to see the LC become fully modularised, like the SATs. Break every subject into say 4-6 different topics, each with a separate exam, and hold exams every couple of months. Let students take and retake exams as necessary in whatever order they please. Have a bad exam? No worries. You can take it again in 2 months time, and only your best result gets counted. Got sidetracked by an extracurricular activity? That’s fine. You can change your exam timeline to work around it. Haven’t got the results you need for the course you want? No problem. Just focus your efforts on the specific modules where you underperformed, and you can be done in a few months, rather than having to commit to a full extra year with a full tranche of do or die exams at the end.
27 comments
* Students entering Senior Cycle in September 2023 will sit Paper One in English and Irish at the end of fifth year, instead of at the end of sixth year.
* Two new subjects – ‘Drama, Film and Theatre Studies’ and ‘Climate Action and Sustainable Development’ – are to be introduced.
* Under the plan, new assessment components will be worth 40% of the total marks, with the written examination making up 60% of the final score.
I like these changes. Less riding on a final exam and it’s very similar to the experience in third level.
Happy to finally see film studies at second level, it’s long overdue.
I really like that idea. Take some pressure off the students anyway.
For the people saying that this will be less pressure on the students. No. One thousand times, no.
2 years wrecked instead of one
Nice
This is a good idea. The major thing for students will be getting the importance of the fifth year exams into their head I think. In college people often forget 30% of their final GPA is from the penultimate year etc .
As a teacher – loving this news. It’s only fair that there’s some continuous assessment in there as that is what they’ll experience in college anyway. And getting two exams out of the way in 5th year is another nice reliever for students.
These seem like perfectly sensible changes that will bring second level learning more in line with third level. The new subjects are good too for a comprehensive education.
I think this is a terrible idea… how do you expect 16 year olds to take life defining exams seriously?
I know when I was in fifth year there was no chance of me taking any exams serious, just watch young people’s stress levels go through the roof.
Straight from junior cert into more important exams. Good job Ireland🥴
Isnt it weird that as a teacher I find out about exam and course changes exclusively on social media??
My employers, the department of education tell us nothing. Its such a joke.
Anyway, these changes sound like a good move in the right direction!
My major concern with English is that students are jumping from no extended essay at junior level to writing one in 5th year- If they skip TY that is disastrous, and it runs the risk of turning TY into the first year of senior cycle.
Also, I would have thought the gradual development of two years worth of functional writing was a good thing; Now I would think it will be crammed into the final two terms of 5th year instead. This is even more of a concern in Irish where language skills need as much time as possible to progress.
I’m genuinely not trying to be negative, but change for change sake isn’t good, and splitting papers by topic isn’t the right way to go. Splitting the course into Year 1 Poet/Novel/etc and Year 2 Poet/Novel/etc with progression in difficulty would have made more sense.
Done this in LCA,leaving cert applied.
I had my leaving passed before I even sat down for my first test
It took a four years to decide that the only thing that’s going to happen is to pull two papers in to fifth year? And it’s going to take another year for it to be executed? And I can see several glaring problems with their suggestion straight off the bat….
This was billed as a major reform to how we examine students so that they would be better prepared and this is what they came up with? What a waste of time and money.
actually a good change, the issue is, English and Irish both have a lot of material that is usually learned over 5th and 6th year with a short time left for revision, how is this going to play out now? Is the amount of material reduced or is there an increase in English and Irish classes in students timetables?
I can see some other problems in this too, the way I did school was to not give a shit about any work in 5th year and then work over 6th year. Gave me a lot of free time to enjoy myself, students don’t have that option anymore
Definitely has its pros and cons
I’m very anti-continuous assessment as a teacher, I know it’s the minority view but in my mind it only leads to more stress amongst students and greater rates of teacher interference in grades (grade-inflation, cheating, whatever)
Also, why change now? Can we not have a break? The Junior cycle is only just up and running. We’re emerging from a period of massive upheaval in the way we teach and learn and now we’re starting over again. Great.
I’m happy to be proved wrong, but if it is anything like the new junior cycle my subject will be dumbed down, given stressful extra components, and favour kids whose parents can help them or whose teachers are willing to cheat.
I teach physics and applied maths. In my subjects and I’m guessing in every other subject, students abilities develop over the 2 years. Although I might cover a particular topic in November of 5th year there’s no chance students will be able to do leaving cert questions based on the topic in 5th year. It takes 2 full years of training and practice to develop to that level.
If you are to do half the leaving cert in 5th year you will have to significantly reduce the difficulty. You cannot expect students to have fully develop their maths skills by that point.
“Teacher-based assessment of these additional components will be externally moderated by the State Examinations Commission.”
What does this mean? We assessed our students due to Covid and that goodwill has been turned against us? That’s what it feels like. For the LC we shouldn’t have to assess our students. Ireland is a small country and that doesn’t bode well for the one really good thing the LC does – the fairness and transparency of the marking process.
This is a fantastic idea.
Don’t like the idea of fucking up in 5th year and then having to sit more exams the next year. Like unless they change the curriculum to put the easier stuff earlier
I’m thankful I did the LC in 2019. It’s been total shambles the last 2 years. My english teacher always gave me H4s and low H3s in my work but in the real thing I got a high H2. It’s 100% biased no getting around it.
I don’t like the idea of sitting exams in 5th year. Like we were nowhere near ready then and it limits teachers in their flexibility of teaching.
I think CAs should only be kept for “practical” subjects like DCG etc.
at the end of the day the pre-2020 way was fair and anonymous. You either studied or you didn’t.
From now on just 60 percent of the Leaving Cert will be externally, anonymously marked. This is a sneaky form of dumbing down.
The officials in the DES are obsessed with the ‘educational advantage’ of the kids in fee-paying schools, and have been looking for a way erode it for years. The Covid-induced ‘calculated grades’ were a godsend to them, because it allowed them to implement what RTÉ’s Education Correspondent Emma O’ Kelly called ‘social tilting’ – in other words rigging an anonymous and fair exam system.
Obviously it is far easier and much quicker to rig the system than to invest the necessary resources in disadvantaged areas – from primary right the way through to the end of secondary – so that the kids can compete for limited places on an unrigged basis with kids in wealthier areas.
Before people down vote this, ask yourself, if you had an aneurism today, would you like to be operated on by the surgeon who did best in the externally marked exam, or the surgeon who didn’t, but benefitted from ‘social tilting’?
Obviously the first, right? Because brain surgery matters. It’s literally life and death.
So how about when you have to drive a bus across the bridge built by which engineer?
Or being represented by which lawyer when you’re arrested for something you didn’t do?
Maybe we could have ‘social tilting’ for jobs that don’t matter – but if so we should be open and transparent about it.
At some point people have to accept there’s no getting away from the stress of the Leaving Cert, it’s an important exam. The best system is one that’s unbiased, teachers should play no part in grading their own students work, it has to be anonymous. We saw the results of predicted grades.
Honestly having done the LC last year (sitting most of my exams still) these changes dont sit right enough with me. For one sitting papers in 5th year just seems wrong to me, for me at least I didnt develop a lot into the subjects (like Irish or my Maths) until everything sort of “clicked” in 6th year.
Also for the 2 new subjects couldnt these have just like, been integrated into the english and geography courses rather than adding 2 new subjects that will just take up what is essentially precious time.
And then for CAs itll probably just be more stress, I personally was stressed out enough with the History, Geography and Engineering projects.
As a teacher I can say with certainty that there will be NO assessing for state certification by teachers. The ASTI fought long and hard to stop this nonsense at junior Cycle. Needless to say they’ll start going on about external moderation of random papers but we all know the game can be jigged once anonymity is gone. As an English teacher I’m also qualified to say “they can shovel it up their holes”.
Teachers assessing their own students doesn’t work. Predicted grades process showed that.
Dunno why they’re trying to bring that in.
Definitely in favour of spreading out exams and assessments but only fair way is anonymous and transparent corrections.
Wonder what the Dept be thinking sometimes
Absolutely the right direction to go in, but I hope they’re not just planning to take the exact same exam structure and just change the timelines. You can’t just take an exam developed for 6th year students and just give it to 5th year students without any other changes.
Heck, I’d love to see the LC become fully modularised, like the SATs. Break every subject into say 4-6 different topics, each with a separate exam, and hold exams every couple of months. Let students take and retake exams as necessary in whatever order they please. Have a bad exam? No worries. You can take it again in 2 months time, and only your best result gets counted. Got sidetracked by an extracurricular activity? That’s fine. You can change your exam timeline to work around it. Haven’t got the results you need for the course you want? No problem. Just focus your efforts on the specific modules where you underperformed, and you can be done in a few months, rather than having to commit to a full extra year with a full tranche of do or die exams at the end.