Poland's total fertility rate, the average number of children a woman has in her lifetime, fell to 1.11 last year, the lowest in the European Union and one of the lowest among developed countries, according to government estimates.
by AccomplishedPlant410
40 comments
The ban on abortion scared alot of women off in recent years.
its probably our work culture that started in 90s with developing GDP no matter what, with fact that orginally peoples made kids to have free work force and somesone to take care of them when old
Tough situation in the real estate market (everything is expensive as fuck) and strict abortion law made by PiS made women scared to get pregnant. Truly diabolical combo.
Graphs showing Poland strong GDP increase have their cost.
Very expensive housing, a decline in the purchasing power of money.
Thats too much.
You don’t have to carry a dog inside you for 9 months and risk sepsis because abortion is illegal.
I’d say it’s about housing
https://preview.redd.it/qufzrbeq0gve1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=d64d2a6af7a1e3a81f29b6d00bb35fbb2cf26a71
The data does not support the claim that this has (mainly) to do with the legal environment. Thus focusing on that will likely not solve the issue.
Well whole eastern europe has fcked real estate prices “the more north u go the worse it gets”
It’s not housing, it’s not money – family is not a number 1 goal in life for many.
No way to afford decent housing and barely scraping by with rents so high on small aparatment, no way I’m getting a kid while I can barely provide for myself
I’m not surprised. I can barely sustain myself, I don’t want a whole ass small human to take up resources
1. Can’t afford an own house, let alone one spacious enough for a family of even 3
2. Total mess of abortion laws
3. Even after you deal with 1 and 2, both parents still have to work full time to survive which leaves little time to spend with their child(ren) in order to raise them.
4. “Developers” buying out living spaces, doing the absolute bare minimum to “refurbish” them, then putting them up for rent ONLY.
Well, if it takes three incomes to raise a single kid, what do you expect to happen?
It’s hard to get to the root cause. My wife has 11 close girlfriends. It’s a small sample size, 3 of them are still looking for the one, 2 are engaged, 2 are married and 1 of them in not planning on having a child, 1 recently had a baby, 1 is pregnant, and 1 really wants to be a mother but in couple of years.
Marriage rates are on the decline, divorce rates are on the incline. I think Poland doesn’t have a procreation problem, Poland has a relationship problem.
On top of that unstable financial and job market, in the last 2 years, at least 4-5 of my friends were laid off, uncertainty about the future can be the biggest discouraging factor.
Honestly, I think that for now this is a non issue. Imo Poland is probably the smartest country at increasing its population via immigration intake, since the overwhelming majority of those immigrants are people from neighbouring Eastern European countries, who are ethnically and mentally similar to its native population. In a generation or two they would become completely indistinguishable from polaks, securing the continuity of Rzeczpospolita.
After all of that will settle down, the future reality is going to be as automatised and AI driven as it gets. At that point people would have way more time to dedicate to rising children, or even providing the gestation of the foetus in a biomechanical womb, freeing the women from the hassle etc.
Well my wife and I could afford it but at the same time we don’t want a baby because it really kills your life plans – everything has to revolve around the shitling so no thanks
I see people saying that abortion laws scared women to get pregnant. I am not saying it is not the case but I am of age where my siblings, cousins and friends are getting babies and not one woman said she was scared to get pregnant because of that.
What they are concerned about is money and housing.
An example would be my brother and his wife. They have two children and would gladly have another one but for a family of 5 you need space. Either a house or a large apartment. Ideally you want each child to have a room. The thing is that even though they both work and have decent stable jobs there is no way they can afford to buy.
Basically families are priced out of the housing market. In order to keep fertility rate above the replacement threshold you need to have a significant portion of families to have 3 children but as things are those families either have one or maximum two children. Loads of people opt to not have any.
Sorry but in my opinion until the family size housing is not affordable there will be no change. The government can increase the child benefit to 1000 but the banks will not be granting loans based on that.
POLSKA GUROM, I’m doing my part.
if only col and wages were closer and we weren’t getting fucked to match prices of the Western European countries without a salary to match.
Unlike what most people here want you to think it wasn’t because of the abortion Law ,because the fertility rate has been dropping fast since 2018 , it is mostly because of the fact that the people who now are supposed to have children are from the generation after the massive drop in child birth Poland experienced after the fall of communism , add to that economy ,the current (terrible) state of the world and the fact that people start to have children a lot later then before, and you end up with the current problem
Why I should make future slaves to our dumbas billionaire’s overlords? There is enough people as it is
Having pets is just way easier and cheaper than having kids.
Try to fix medicine.
I don’t know why honestly…
50% paycheck for rent
Stick of butter is 10 PLN
Average of 3 months wait for a doctor appointment
If something goes sideways during the pregnancy, the doctors will consider their “morals” instead of this woman’s life
Education system sucks
Job market sucks
Nobody got time to raise kids
Honestly the birth rate should drop as low as 0.7, even lower if we want changes
I can only speak for myself. I would love to have kids with my finance. I am not going to due to not having an apartment and stable job. Easy as that.
Although economy and abortion ban are real problems I think other major issue is relationship. It is hard to find good partner who respects you and is not far rightist.
Personally, as a woman, I remember for the entire childhood feeling mothers are completely devalued, they’re boring, hysterical, fat. Obsessed with their children and chores, grounded. Catering while the men get to go explore, discuss, have an opinion, talk about politics, drink, joke and also pay attention to anyone who hasn’t gotten fat through pregnancy. I knew whatever I do in life I have to avoid this box, this social execution.
House prices. My French boss just came back from France and explained how the house prices in krakow are 5 times higher per square meter than in his city in France. And we earn way less too… And food prices. A pack of milk in France was 3 zł cheaper. It’s way too expensive all. Sure we may have a good going economy in Europe, but doesn’t mean it’s good living here.
Abortion is pretty much illegal, housing prices are crazy (11-14k PLN/m2 is a standard price in big cities whereas minimum wage is 3500 PLN.
Women who are willing to get pregnant are less likely to find a steady job because then the employer would have to pay for the maternity leave.
Fewer marriages. Quite surprisingly the fertility rate of marriages is still about 2 and hasn’t changed much in the last decade. But the biggest issue is the number of marriages declines.
Why are there fewer marriages? I don’t know but I can only guess. Ask any man who tried to find a partner on Tinder or any other dating app. I know from friends that dating sucks these days.
I can’t find a place to rent, how the fuck I will raise children?
im just too ugly QwQ
Yes, and?
I mean, which country would prefer procreation with animals rather recreation?
As a woman, I can say a mix of several factors, including:
Cost of living – babies are expensive, people aren’t getting more wealthy, everything is getting more expensive
Housing crisis – linked to my first point, but having unstable living situation (renting) or having to slave for a bank to buy 2-room “apartment” for more than half a million doesn’t help.
Rising expectations about living – people want to live for themselves, not to produce kids, because they have to, simple as that. Both men, and women. Women don’t want to stay at home and pop out kids (and they can’t too, because there’s no raising a kid on single income), men don’t want to overwork themselves into a sickness to support family.
Loneliness – let’s be real, people are more lonely now, even though we are more connected than ever. Polarization of both sides doesn’t help. With more women leaning left and more men leaning right, incel movements, choosing the bear etc.
And 2 more recent issues:
A mess that is abortion laws – women literally died in past years because of that. And just now there’s a case where a woman was lied to by doctors about the health of her baby and she had to have a very late abortion cause the fetus had a lethal genetic defect.
Uncertainty about the future – we live in interesting times, as that one saying goes.
General lack of political stability (just had a govt that tried to dismantle the country, ua has a war going on, global warming is coming), terrible services (the fertility has been dropping for decades now yet it’s still hard to get your kid in preschool etc), bad healthcare (and getting worse), economy isn’t great and costs of living are high… And on top of that you could be forced to die in labor because of the crazy abortion thing.
Why would you have a kid is a more important question honestly, I already pity those who are 20 years old today and are going to live through hard times.
I would love to raise a child. At this point I know I never will.
I don’t own a flat to provide shelter for him, I could be laid off at any moment, and last year I was, spent six months looking for a job and found one just as my money was running out. Add to that health issues, and mental issue partly caused partly exacerbated by constant stress and need to constantly be occupied to survive. Threat of war, genetic diseases in the family, declining nfz.
And on top of that you need to find someone worthwile and build a relationships among all of this bullshit.
So yeah, it’s because of lgbt obviously
Why does it feel like I see kids everywhere? Should this decline be visable? Should schools be closing? Schools are pretty full it seems. Cities are building new playgrounds all the time.
Im not disputing these numbers, and so I guesss its confirmation bias that I dont see the decline, but when does this become noticable in day to day life?
A lot of people just don’t want children right now, especially at the ages people have been having children in the past. Not just Poland, everyone I’ve spoken to in Canada (20-30 years old) never planned to have kids anytime soon, due to simply not wanting them at a young age or financial issues, it’s not really a bad thing when it comes to finance, people are aware of the fact that they can’t afford a child and are not willing to bring one into the world when they don’t have the money for it. Some people just aren’t willing to bring a child into the world the way it is at the moment either. In 2 decades I’ve never actually spoken to anyone in Poland or Canada who have said they’re dead set on having kids, the occasional “yeah I want kids sometime” does not mean I want kids and have deeply thoroughly thought about it.
Women in Poland are well educated and independent. There is no generational wealth in Poland. There is very little inheritance or help from parents to buy their first apartment or home. Usually young people help parents instead. Then when you add a job insecurities, relationships struggles, and desire to live comfortably there is no time or will to have kids.
If you are male , get married, got kids and then divorce, you are F.U.C.K.E.D for life. Polish judiciary system discriminates against men and favours women to get custody, custody equals alimony. Judges don’t care how you get money to pay alimony, they will tell you you can even steal.
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