This has gone mostly under the radar – under the suggestion of Plaid, TfW has launched a study into a north-south rail link, which will turn Bangor-Pwllheli by train from a 5 hour journey by train via England to under an hour. This is great, there are disused tracks that could, with little to no demolitions, connect the rest of North Wales to Caernarfon by train.

Alas, the commission has proceeded to suggest that it would be best for the whole rural line to be a tram, due to the old track (the one from Bangor to Caernarfon in the 60s) is now the A487 and most of Caernarfon, including a Morrisons. This is despite a cleared out path inland the whole way to Pwllheli, let alone Caernarfon.

It'd be great to have an actual north-south transit connection by rail, especially since it'd turn the 5 hour journey by car into a potential 2-3 hour journey from Bangor (with this being a crucial part), but these absolute cockheads are adamant on building a street tram in a sparsely populated area – did I forget to mention it'd also be equal, if not slower to existing bus routes in the area due to being speed capped?

If you want to read the 219 page study yourself, it is here. But I recommend downloading it and dumping it into Notebook LM if you want usable details from it.

What do you think? I'm really considering starting a petition on this, since if it does happen, it basically kills the North-South rail line.

by stopdontpanick

16 comments

  1. It probably seems like a lot of gobbledy goop with just my lines on maps without context; here is [https://www.openrailwaymap.org/](https://www.openrailwaymap.org/), a comprehensive map of basically every railway ever built. You can see the yellow line where the Bangor-Caernarfon line used to be and the disused tracks I based my proposal off – you can compare and contrast with Google Maps imagery to compare just how clear each of the paths are.

    And as a minor correction – yes, it’s technically Bangor-Afon Wen they’re restoring, but it’s only a few miles from Pwllheli. It’d likely reduce travel from anywhere on the North Wales coast to the West by train by roughly 3-4 hours.

  2. No fully North-South route will ever go via Aberystwyth and Caernarfon. The existing railway between Aberystwyth and Pwllheli is nowhere near up to standard for that kind of service. Connecting Bangor-Caernarfon (maybe Pwllheli too) would be great but for longer distance North-South services it would make more sense to connect the Wrexham-Bidson line to the North Wales mainline at Shotton to allow for NWML – Wrexham (and beyond) services to skip the Chester turnaround

  3. The proposals only have the service running in ‘tram mode’ in certain sections where it would need to run along roads. A lot of the route would still be run in ‘train mode’. They could use tram-trains like the ones planned for the core valleys lines. This would allow them to run through services from further afield (such as a Wrexham to Machynlleth service) as those trains can still run on ‘heavy rail’ tracks as well as the reopened sections of track.

    I suppose any proposals to reopen this line are better than no proposals, even if they’re not 100% perfect.

  4. When you say tram, do you mean the sort of thing rattling around Manchester, or the train-trams that are going to be used on the Core Valleys Lines? If it’s the latter, I don’t think it’s such a problem.

  5. I imagine they will have to create a new platform in Bangor to accommodate this due to main line

  6. I feel sorry for smaller areas like Tonyrefail which lost its train station in favour of a bypass. It’s these little villages that get left behind.

  7. Disused track? The Welsh Highland Railway runs from Porthmadog to Caernarfon. The original Bangor to Caernarfon is governed by the ironclad underwear wearing SUSTRANS who attack anyone who suggests touching their cycle paths.

  8. That red route is not a sensible route. Huge elevation changes, and works through fairly built up areas. The yellow route is by far the sensible choice, and honestly, a light rail kind of thing would be fine. It’s not a trunk route.

  9. I feel like a tram won’t really do much more than a bus that already exists on the exact route. Either commit or don’t. 

    The old line is mostly bike lain but in places like Caernarfon and Felin I think it’s mostly built over so that complicates things

    Support a Bangor – Aber line but Train-tram-train doesn’t change much. Whole convenience of a train is that you never have to get out, get in and forget

  10. I think you’re seriously underestimating the challenges involved.

    When this report was released, I was excited as even a light rail link would improve our situation here in north Wales. But having read the report it does feel like the technical challenges are insurmountable and also the impact on local communities.

    Your sensible route, for example, connects parts of the old Dinorwic quarry line with the Llanberis/Caernarfon line. Neither are good spots for a heavy rail line. Drawing lines on a map is easy, but there are serious gradients from Bangor to Bethel and then back down to the Seiont basin. Not to mention what communities are to make of it.

    I’ve read the report’s findings on the Bangor Caernarfon section. Huge engineering challenges, and again heavily impacting communities.

    These challenges can be overcome, but would need spending on a par with HS2. I doubt any government will spend the £100millions needed to connect the few thousands in north west Wales.

  11. I’m just grateful for any public transport connection that runs on a Sunday. Taxi from Bangor to Caernarfon is just silly

  12. To be honest, any sort of train line (even light rail) is better than none. However I would want to see it built with the idea in mind to (one day) run an express from Bangor to Cardiff – in 2 hours.

    Has there been any study to link Porthmadog to Blaenau Ffestiniog and the Conwy Valley line?

  13. For people who aren’t familiar, this is the route of the Lôn Gwyrfai foot and cycle path which provides huge tourist value and leisure facilities locally, and which makes it possible to travel between Bangor and Caernarfon in 50 minutes. I’d much rather we explore the potential for small electric shuttle buses or electric bikes along this route as it could improve health and wellbeing in area without the enormous price tag of a tram/train.

  14. What’s wrong with a tram? Frankly I think it’s staggering that even this is being considered seriously. You’re absolutely dreaming if you think you’ll ever see major investment in a proper rail line out here. It is simply NOT going to happen.

  15. Mate it’s like 10 miles. That’s not that big a deal. Better than a shit ton of the rest of wales that has little to no public transport

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