French official says Pakistan downed Rafale jet as officials examine possible further losses

29 comments

1. It is quite significant that it is confirmed by an “high-ranking French intelligence official” (though a non-anonymous source would be more convincing) because with the lack of independent media in the two countries and their respective web brigades, it was difficult to trust any information that we were getting since yesterday.

   And with the threats targetting Europe, it is also concerning that a Rafale could be shot down so easily…

2. Congratulations to the pilot that shot it down, they made history by being first pilot to achieve an A-A kill in a Chinese aircraft against an western one.

3. Didn’t they just receive the Rafales recently? I’d imagine they’re fairly inexperienced with them at this point, still?

4. Slightly unsurprising, Pakistan always had the edge with the airforce. Indian officials probably regretting they gave Pakistan two weeks of preparation time.

5. Any aircraft can be shot down (it’s just that some are a lot harder to shoot down than others). And aircraft are almost never shot down in isolation – it’s almost always a combination of aircraft, ground based radar, air defences, intelligence, luck and/or bad luck, the skill of the pilot, the condition of the pilot and all of the technology involved… A Rafale being shot down is evidence of nothing more than that Pakistan had enough of those factors on its side to shoot the plane down.

6. To make things clear :

   Rafale being shot is different than Rafale being bad or JF17 being better than it (Rafale is still one of the best 4.5 gen).

   We have no clue how it was shot, the tactics india put it into place and if they underestimated pakistan,if it was at shot at really close range you can have the best jamming suite ever you won’t have time to react accordingly / be able to do maneuvers etc.

   Terrain can also change things and there is some parts that of near the border with India and Pakistan which is mountain etc so you can’t properly use your radar to see threats that could be hidden.

   A plane is a plane and not invincible, see for example how f117 despite having advanced stealth still got shot by a missile from an old soviet radar.

   Also Pakistan was on high alert since a while so it also help.

7. China testing their missiles vs EU tech….a sign of things to come

8. Let’s not forget dassault Rafael are exceptional plane when accompanied by matching networking and awacs support. India operates multiple platforms and avacs which can lead to slower or ineffective support.

   Where as dynamics would be different for same plane when accompanied by other Rafael planes and awacs custom designed for it’s own.

   When you are at risk of being targeted by multiple platforms and missiles Battle field awareness and Early radar support is very critical.

   Moreover it’s stupidity to try a aggressive move in a highly defended airspace with a mission goal of not attacking military installations, when you attack the first thing is you go for is to suppress enemy air defences as targets instead of just trying to evade them.

9. This is significant, India has been claiming that it hasn’t lost any jets and that the Pakistani claims of downing Indian fighters are fabricated.  If this is real and it becomes publicly known, India may be placed in a situation where they are expected to make a major response.

10. A lot of copium on here about the Rafale…

11. So Chinese aircraft aren’t near as far behind as media loves to say

12. This is not good. For one thing that means Chinese military hardware has reached an unprecedented levels. On the other hand this doesn‘t reflect well on India which seems to lose fighter jets left and right whenever there is a conflict.

13. A lot of people are ignoring the strategic failure here. Instead of questioning pilot’s competence or saying Chinese tech being superior.

    You don’t send your planes on a agressive mission in contested and heavily defended airspace without trying to suppress the enemy air defences first.

    These planes were well under enemy attack range with instructions to not engage on military targets.
    A plane even fifth gen discloses it’s location when it fires a missile. Once location is disclosed on a radar it’s relatively easy to lock on a retreating target specially when the plane is non stealth.

    What could have probably happened is These fired missiles very close to Pakistan airspace disclosed there locations and tried to evade while being chased by Pakistani missiles.

14. Indian pilots are hilariously incompetent for a country that had the third largest military budget for a while.

    But yes, being brought down by a Chinese JC10 (reportedly) is quite embarrassing for Dassault.

15. France doesn’t care, they now need a plane to replace the one they lost.

16. Don’t understand how so many are assuming this somehow reflect on the capabilities (or lack there of) of the jet. It just shows that the air defence systems it went up against is no joke!

    They’re good fighters, but they’re not invulnerable thick concrete walls, especially when they go up against sophisticated defense systems that are specifically made to counter such complex machinery.

17. Seems like the Chinese reports I’ve read are credible then. Something to do with the J17 or J10’s new radar system allowing the jet to have the 1st detection advantage (I think 1200km vs the Rafale’s 500+km or something).

18. Ah I see all the armchair military experts are in full force, lovely, I’m sure much can be assumed from this lack of information

19. You all joke about Pakistan. The country itself is dirt poor and poverty ridden but if you know anything about that country it should be that their military is one of the most developed and advanced in the world developed and trained personally by both the US and China over some 70 years. At one point it was eve the second highest receiver of US military aid after Israel and Egypt

    It’s no coincidence they have nukes because their entire country is run and owned by the military

    If Europe went head to head only UK and France would be able to beat it. Literally every European country including Turkey and Russia would struggle.

    Everyone needs to stop cheering for a war between two heavily armed and militarized nuclear powers

20. Sad to say but now we see why Pakistan’s defensive budget is so big.

21. Reminder that air defense systems have ALWAYS outperformed aircraft and they always will.

    The only military aircraft that have not been shot down are those that have not entered combat zones with an enemy on technological parity, like when the US or RU are fighting insurgent groups.

    Aircraft are extremely limited by size and weight limits, air defence systems can have far stronger radars and far larger missiles with virtually no restrictions.

22. People having a meltdown over plane being shotdown…of course it can be shot down, what did people expect, that Pakistan will throw stones at them?

23. The rumour going around is Pakistan was able to jam the communications of the Rafale. I’m not an expert in this but these aircraft have a prior history of getting hacked.

24. Looks like the US better take note …Chinese weapons are not crap like the West thinks

25. It’s more of an embarrassment for the IAF if true, losing like 3 modern jets in such an operation reeks of incompetence.

26. Why would an Anonymous french intelligence officer give intel that makes his countries most advanced jet look bad to a less than reputable news agency (CNN) know for its fake news?

27. The funny thing is that when Chinese jets shoot down the Rafale, people say any jet can be shot down. If the reverse had happened people will be trashing Chinese equipment. The double standards of the Western world is truly pathetic.

28. Excuses on excuses…. Just admit the superior Chinese jet downed your piece of overhyped shite…

29. The copium by Europeans in here is wild. Blaming the pilot and China and India the weather the location of the moon, but staunchly defending the euro plane. Maybe it’s just not that exceptional?

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