Fuck it, have at it lads, better than giving it to some quango or think tank. Atleast you get to see abit of art for the money.
Sure I’m an artist myself, where do I sign up ?
They should give everyone who falls under a certain income access to this basic income thing and have it the same for everyone rather than what it’s like now where pensioners, jobseekers, people on disibility etc. all get different amounts and the government tries to degrade everyone on jobseekers until they stop receiving it.
Bizarre stuff
Good stuff.
Is there no details at all? Will they get to earn as much as they want and retain that payment? How are their earnings going to be taxed yada yada
What a farce. So the government is going to pay for ‘art’. Every loser that can apply for this will be doing it and because art is subjective, there’ll be no real guidelines as to who should or shouldn’t get it. I’m saying this as a part time artist who has worked my way up to a very modest weekly sum over 14 years of dedication.
Once an artist gets to a level where society deems that what they produce is valuable, then they make money, this helps drive artists to produce good work. Paying someone just because they think they are an artist is dumb and will not have a positive effect overall.
If i had to guess, you would need to prove that you are legitimate freelance artist. Provide portfolio, portfolio website, social media channels, etc. Article mentions 2000 artists, and there are definitely more than 2000 legitimate artists in the country, sooo.
I think this could be a great thing overall, if it is properly distributed.
Not a bad idea at all.
One of our biggest economic activities is tourism and the tourism sector is a major employer in the West and high numbers of people without formal qualifications and women. For putting cash in the hand of hard to reach populations, tourism is very good in Ireland.
Anyway, a major draw for people visiting Ireland is our cultural heritage.
More artists and musicians able to do their thing for the relatively small cost of €35m a year will do no harm to the perception that Ireland is culturally unique and worth visiting.
In case people are worried about Johnny down the road picking up a few paint brushes and calling himself an artist, from what I understand, to be eligible you need to be a member of the professional body that oversees your field (VAI for visual arts, IMRO for music etc), and those bodies usually have a set of criteria that you need to fulfil (a degree in the field, work being exhibited in an established show or gallery etc) to become a member.
So people that mostly sit around and do nothing will get free cash to sit around and do nothing…. more? Great plan cant fail.
UBI doesnt work unless everyone gets it. Otherwise its just the dole
For those complaining/joking:
* You’ll need to prove a track record (previous work, portfolio, connections, etc (doesn’t have to be commercial or professional work)) and intent to apply (so no, not just anyone who calls themselves an artist for the craic can apply).
* This is to help recover the creative, cultural, and entertainment industries, and was recommended by an economic recovery advisory task force. Saying “no” is like saying no to your doctor when they tell you how to get better.
* It’s less than PUP. I’m not complaining about that, but if you were on PUP, you got more than this. Why are you complaining?
* Many applicants would have been gainfully employed pre-Covid (singers, performers, bands, muralists, instructors, etc) and have yet to regain a footing. This could not only help them support themselves but find employment again. Complaining about this is like refusing to help someone find a job and then complaining they’re on the dole.
* The scheme is open to creative workers too (make-up, art-direction, prop masters, cultural preservists, artisan business owners), many who also hire assistants or support other businesses. Making it out it’s just artists is short sighted.
* This is a trial scheme. If it works out, it could be expanded or adapted to support other groups in the future, like health care workers or students or those recovering from abuse or addiction. Hell, it may even help you in the future. Why are you saying no to something you don’t even know the results of?
* Your money already goes towards scientific and technology R&D that is then privatised and sold back to you by multinationals. The Arts are something that has an immediate benefit to you and your community, often for free. Why are you saying no to that?
* The image you have in your head of an “artist” (the artsy-fartsy, posh whimsical weirdo); do you know why that’s a thing? Because often it’s only the wealthy and well off who can pursue the arts. This gives a chance for the poor, the disabled, the discriminated, the unrepresented to finally show their talents. Why are you against that if you hate the status quo so much?
* Building on above; ever complain about RTÉ and their shows/talent? Same thing. Many who are there are because they could survive long enough to get there. You want RTÉ to change for the better? Why are you not giving people even the chance to get there?
* Many forms of art employ thousands (live venues, galleries, cinemas, theatres, pubs, school participation projects, publishers, websites, etc). You’re talking about potentially thousands of jobs the help promote tourism, culture, hospitality, and local businesses.
* Did you really suffer through Covid, dying for social interactions, only to say no to gigs, cinemas, events, festivals, concerts? Why?
* And finally, if you’re against this, never listen to any piece of music, see any film or show, read any book, look at any painting or sculpture, or anything creative. Because chances are they were supported by government supports like this in one way or another.
TLDR:
This supports jobs, tourism, culture, social mobility, inclusion, and entertainment. Why would you not be in favour of that?
As far as I can tell, the only thing I pay tax for in this poxy country is for fucking wasters to spend it instead of me.
Credit where credit due, I’ve been critical of this government for a long time but this is definitely something that I can’t argue or criticise, good to see, let’s hope it’s managed correctly.
My sister is a singer in France and they have something similar there, basically a universal income. They know your wages will flucuate, sometimes months between gigs , this is a great think seeing as we’re a nation of artists who never look after the culture side of the country that brings in so many tourists
r/ireland implodes
so they finally admit that 200 a week isnt enough for people to survive on? i dont know im happy artists are getting this but they really need to be increasing disability support to be in line with this.
The basic income should be paid to everyone regardless of income – I pay a lot of tax and would like to have a fallback / initial position
€35 million against the state budget seems like a reasonable price for something that could do a lot of good and is a good testing ground for similar schemes in the future. Feeding the starving artists is a good idea, Ireland has so much cultural potential and stuff like this is a positive in terms of realising it.
This seems to be robust enough to stop any old chancer line up and grab it, so I’m happy enough to see them giving this a crack. I’m as quick to slag the government off as anyone but this seems like a genuinely good (and shockingly innovative for FFG) idea
Universal basic income should be for everyone, everyone needs money.
Downvote me I don’t care. We demand an equal society whilst a small group of professionals get special treatment.
Also I don’t know how this would even work, do I get it after attending animation college?
This I am happy to pay for, put some culture and life back into rural and small town Ireland.
A virtue signalling oddball move from a government heavily in debt and hammered in the polls.
Idiotic move. Par for the course at this stage
Will they accept my Hentai Sketches? They are very generous.
This comes back to the age old question around what is art. I’m not a musician, a painter, or anything that would be considered traditional art. But I do record and publish birdsong. Is that art? I’m not going to be applying here, but still it’s made me think about how art will be defined. Anyway, fantastic news that I think we’ll be all the better for.
Its a fantastic initiative bravo
This actually makes the world such a better place. In cities where they have this and people are constantly organizing free public events because they’re not in an office 40 hours a week trying to survive for the weekends
Every artist I know has work they’d absolutely love to do but can’t because they can’t justify time away from more stable paying work/ gigs. The starving artist memes or suggestion art comes from suffering is generally an unhelpful myth, and collectively were all better off if our artistic cultural output is encouraged and can thrive.
Supports like this mean better local music, local art, local theater etc, without the people who make it constantly having to worry if they should pack it all in every month.
No issues with it as long as it’s reflected in tax on their paid work.
Good call.
Ireland has always punched above its weight in the arts. It would be a shame if we fell behind. This is a great initiative to keep us going.
Anyone know how you can apply? Zero info online
I still can’t understand why tattoo artists aren’t considered artists in Ireland. Can’t get artists tax exemption either b
Do writers count as artists?
On the one hand, it’s good because it makes music careers more accessible and realistic to people from working class backgrounds, and I’m sick of south Dublin indie soft-rock bands ruling the Irish music scene.
On the otherhand, everyone I know who went to NCAD or BIMM is the same demographic of south Dublin / Dalkey posh kids who were taken to violin/guitar/cello lessons at a young age, and generally never had to worry about where money would come from. Hopefully this will change that, but I have my doubts.
I’d be happier seeing the money go to funding public music schools, practice facilities, etc, so that hobbyist/students can learn to play.
Or even better, a development policy in Dublin city center that doesn’t see all live music venues demolished to be replaced by hotels.
But at the end of the day, we’re throwing away millions to the Greyhound industry which is a stupid cruel industry, might as well give some money to develop the music scene.
I’m finishing my degree in NCAD with mixed feelings because of people criticising my choice to follow a creative career and this is exactly what I needed to see. Ireland is incredible for artistic talent, the country is renowned for creativity. The ability to pursue that with a little more security is fantastic. Thanks for sharing!
What about government artists? /s
currently whiping the dust of me tin whistle
I am shocked at the positivity in these comments.. on the lads
Great idea and I’m all for it. As much as we love to espouse about our cultural contributions the reality is many artists are forced to sacrifice their creativity to work shite jobs. Hopefully this gives them a bit of security. I haven’t a creative bone in my body fyi.
I’m guessing those chosen will be friends and family of arts Council members as per usual.
I wonder how it would affect tattoo apprentices. They start their career on veteran difficulty, the hours are nuts and the pay is dog shit. Hope they thought about them
I’m wondering about the methodology behind it and how they’ll measure the success/failure of it. Generally in these trials they pick either unemployed people or they pick people at random. So the random selection could be builders, bankers, unemployed etc…. And after wards they look at their happiness plus how their economic situation has changed.
I wonder how it would affect tattoo apprentices. They start their career on veteran difficulty, the hours are nuts and the pay is dog shit. Hope they thought about them
42 comments
Fuck it, have at it lads, better than giving it to some quango or think tank. Atleast you get to see abit of art for the money.
Sure I’m an artist myself, where do I sign up ?
They should give everyone who falls under a certain income access to this basic income thing and have it the same for everyone rather than what it’s like now where pensioners, jobseekers, people on disibility etc. all get different amounts and the government tries to degrade everyone on jobseekers until they stop receiving it.
Bizarre stuff
Good stuff.
Is there no details at all? Will they get to earn as much as they want and retain that payment? How are their earnings going to be taxed yada yada
What a farce. So the government is going to pay for ‘art’. Every loser that can apply for this will be doing it and because art is subjective, there’ll be no real guidelines as to who should or shouldn’t get it. I’m saying this as a part time artist who has worked my way up to a very modest weekly sum over 14 years of dedication.
Once an artist gets to a level where society deems that what they produce is valuable, then they make money, this helps drive artists to produce good work. Paying someone just because they think they are an artist is dumb and will not have a positive effect overall.
If i had to guess, you would need to prove that you are legitimate freelance artist. Provide portfolio, portfolio website, social media channels, etc. Article mentions 2000 artists, and there are definitely more than 2000 legitimate artists in the country, sooo.
I think this could be a great thing overall, if it is properly distributed.
Not a bad idea at all.
One of our biggest economic activities is tourism and the tourism sector is a major employer in the West and high numbers of people without formal qualifications and women. For putting cash in the hand of hard to reach populations, tourism is very good in Ireland.
Anyway, a major draw for people visiting Ireland is our cultural heritage.
More artists and musicians able to do their thing for the relatively small cost of €35m a year will do no harm to the perception that Ireland is culturally unique and worth visiting.
In case people are worried about Johnny down the road picking up a few paint brushes and calling himself an artist, from what I understand, to be eligible you need to be a member of the professional body that oversees your field (VAI for visual arts, IMRO for music etc), and those bodies usually have a set of criteria that you need to fulfil (a degree in the field, work being exhibited in an established show or gallery etc) to become a member.
So people that mostly sit around and do nothing will get free cash to sit around and do nothing…. more? Great plan cant fail.
UBI doesnt work unless everyone gets it. Otherwise its just the dole
For those complaining/joking:
* You’ll need to prove a track record (previous work, portfolio, connections, etc (doesn’t have to be commercial or professional work)) and intent to apply (so no, not just anyone who calls themselves an artist for the craic can apply).
* This is to help recover the creative, cultural, and entertainment industries, and was recommended by an economic recovery advisory task force. Saying “no” is like saying no to your doctor when they tell you how to get better.
* It’s less than PUP. I’m not complaining about that, but if you were on PUP, you got more than this. Why are you complaining?
* Many applicants would have been gainfully employed pre-Covid (singers, performers, bands, muralists, instructors, etc) and have yet to regain a footing. This could not only help them support themselves but find employment again. Complaining about this is like refusing to help someone find a job and then complaining they’re on the dole.
* The scheme is open to creative workers too (make-up, art-direction, prop masters, cultural preservists, artisan business owners), many who also hire assistants or support other businesses. Making it out it’s just artists is short sighted.
* This is a trial scheme. If it works out, it could be expanded or adapted to support other groups in the future, like health care workers or students or those recovering from abuse or addiction. Hell, it may even help you in the future. Why are you saying no to something you don’t even know the results of?
* Your money already goes towards scientific and technology R&D that is then privatised and sold back to you by multinationals. The Arts are something that has an immediate benefit to you and your community, often for free. Why are you saying no to that?
* The image you have in your head of an “artist” (the artsy-fartsy, posh whimsical weirdo); do you know why that’s a thing? Because often it’s only the wealthy and well off who can pursue the arts. This gives a chance for the poor, the disabled, the discriminated, the unrepresented to finally show their talents. Why are you against that if you hate the status quo so much?
* Building on above; ever complain about RTÉ and their shows/talent? Same thing. Many who are there are because they could survive long enough to get there. You want RTÉ to change for the better? Why are you not giving people even the chance to get there?
* Many forms of art employ thousands (live venues, galleries, cinemas, theatres, pubs, school participation projects, publishers, websites, etc). You’re talking about potentially thousands of jobs the help promote tourism, culture, hospitality, and local businesses.
* Did you really suffer through Covid, dying for social interactions, only to say no to gigs, cinemas, events, festivals, concerts? Why?
* And finally, if you’re against this, never listen to any piece of music, see any film or show, read any book, look at any painting or sculpture, or anything creative. Because chances are they were supported by government supports like this in one way or another.
TLDR:
This supports jobs, tourism, culture, social mobility, inclusion, and entertainment. Why would you not be in favour of that?
As far as I can tell, the only thing I pay tax for in this poxy country is for fucking wasters to spend it instead of me.
Credit where credit due, I’ve been critical of this government for a long time but this is definitely something that I can’t argue or criticise, good to see, let’s hope it’s managed correctly.
My sister is a singer in France and they have something similar there, basically a universal income. They know your wages will flucuate, sometimes months between gigs , this is a great think seeing as we’re a nation of artists who never look after the culture side of the country that brings in so many tourists
r/ireland implodes
so they finally admit that 200 a week isnt enough for people to survive on? i dont know im happy artists are getting this but they really need to be increasing disability support to be in line with this.
The basic income should be paid to everyone regardless of income – I pay a lot of tax and would like to have a fallback / initial position
€35 million against the state budget seems like a reasonable price for something that could do a lot of good and is a good testing ground for similar schemes in the future. Feeding the starving artists is a good idea, Ireland has so much cultural potential and stuff like this is a positive in terms of realising it.
This seems to be robust enough to stop any old chancer line up and grab it, so I’m happy enough to see them giving this a crack. I’m as quick to slag the government off as anyone but this seems like a genuinely good (and shockingly innovative for FFG) idea
Universal basic income should be for everyone, everyone needs money.
Downvote me I don’t care. We demand an equal society whilst a small group of professionals get special treatment.
Also I don’t know how this would even work, do I get it after attending animation college?
This I am happy to pay for, put some culture and life back into rural and small town Ireland.
A virtue signalling oddball move from a government heavily in debt and hammered in the polls.
Idiotic move. Par for the course at this stage
Will they accept my Hentai Sketches? They are very generous.
This comes back to the age old question around what is art. I’m not a musician, a painter, or anything that would be considered traditional art. But I do record and publish birdsong. Is that art? I’m not going to be applying here, but still it’s made me think about how art will be defined. Anyway, fantastic news that I think we’ll be all the better for.
Its a fantastic initiative bravo
This actually makes the world such a better place. In cities where they have this and people are constantly organizing free public events because they’re not in an office 40 hours a week trying to survive for the weekends
Every artist I know has work they’d absolutely love to do but can’t because they can’t justify time away from more stable paying work/ gigs. The starving artist memes or suggestion art comes from suffering is generally an unhelpful myth, and collectively were all better off if our artistic cultural output is encouraged and can thrive.
Supports like this mean better local music, local art, local theater etc, without the people who make it constantly having to worry if they should pack it all in every month.
No issues with it as long as it’s reflected in tax on their paid work.
Good call.
Ireland has always punched above its weight in the arts. It would be a shame if we fell behind. This is a great initiative to keep us going.
Anyone know how you can apply? Zero info online
I still can’t understand why tattoo artists aren’t considered artists in Ireland. Can’t get artists tax exemption either b
Do writers count as artists?
On the one hand, it’s good because it makes music careers more accessible and realistic to people from working class backgrounds, and I’m sick of south Dublin indie soft-rock bands ruling the Irish music scene.
On the otherhand, everyone I know who went to NCAD or BIMM is the same demographic of south Dublin / Dalkey posh kids who were taken to violin/guitar/cello lessons at a young age, and generally never had to worry about where money would come from. Hopefully this will change that, but I have my doubts.
I’d be happier seeing the money go to funding public music schools, practice facilities, etc, so that hobbyist/students can learn to play.
Or even better, a development policy in Dublin city center that doesn’t see all live music venues demolished to be replaced by hotels.
But at the end of the day, we’re throwing away millions to the Greyhound industry which is a stupid cruel industry, might as well give some money to develop the music scene.
I’m finishing my degree in NCAD with mixed feelings because of people criticising my choice to follow a creative career and this is exactly what I needed to see. Ireland is incredible for artistic talent, the country is renowned for creativity. The ability to pursue that with a little more security is fantastic. Thanks for sharing!
What about government artists? /s
currently whiping the dust of me tin whistle
I am shocked at the positivity in these comments.. on the lads
Great idea and I’m all for it. As much as we love to espouse about our cultural contributions the reality is many artists are forced to sacrifice their creativity to work shite jobs. Hopefully this gives them a bit of security. I haven’t a creative bone in my body fyi.
I’m guessing those chosen will be friends and family of arts Council members as per usual.
I wonder how it would affect tattoo apprentices. They start their career on veteran difficulty, the hours are nuts and the pay is dog shit. Hope they thought about them
I’m wondering about the methodology behind it and how they’ll measure the success/failure of it. Generally in these trials they pick either unemployed people or they pick people at random. So the random selection could be builders, bankers, unemployed etc…. And after wards they look at their happiness plus how their economic situation has changed.
I wonder how it would affect tattoo apprentices. They start their career on veteran difficulty, the hours are nuts and the pay is dog shit. Hope they thought about them