I posted this a few days ago on /r/highspeedrail, but I think it might be relevant here as well. There’s also an important context to this development which is Renfe’s expansion being constantly blocked by SNCF, which must be all the more annoying since SNCF is already present in the Spanish domestic market.
For this route they will try to secure the train paths not via the French authorities, but the British ones
> Renfe also confirmed it plans to approach British infrastructure manager HS1 Ltd and Channel Tunnel manager Getlink for approval to run trains, rather than via French authorities after it suffered problems gaining approval to operate on the Paris – Lyon – Marseille corridor. “Both are well positioned in France and very interested in the development of the project,” the spokesperson says.
1. “Renfe has condemned French claims that its class 100 trains built by Alstom, and based on the same design as TGV, which operate as far as Lyon without any issue, cause electromagnetic interference between Lyon and Paris.”
2. “The manufacturer [Talgo] is reportedly facing difficulties with securing signalling equipment which combines ETCS with the French TVM 430 cab signalling system, which is not possible without the cooperation of French National Railways (SNCF) Group companies.”
3. “Renfe has therefore shifted focus to securing approval to operate its new Talgo class 106 trains in France (…) with ETCS, TVM 430 and the French KVB conventional signalling system. However, Renfe now faces a separate problem – obtaining and approving on-train bi-standard ERTMS/KVB cab signalling for its new trains. **Alstom is the monopoly provider of this equipment** and has been criticised in the past by Stadler for pricing and delivery time. Stadler even went so far as to produce its own Guardia ERTMS cab signalling in order to avoid such problems.”
4. “The Spanish company is also interested in bidding to operate regional passenger services under Public Service Obligation rules but El Pais reports that it has received insufficient information on the lines concerned from the current operator, SNCF.”
Are they a good operator? I’m not aware of any particular issues with the French service but competition is normally a good thing.
The bit that (financially) hurt the service during lockdown is the cost of trains to use the infrastructure, requiring a fee per train, regardless of capacity. I bet those companies are happy to agree to more trains.
Would be a lot easier without bloody Brexit.
Is Renfe who wants to operate Paris-London independently? or is Renfe going to be just a financial umbrella for Spanish infrastructure and services companies that want to expand its business at the expense of the Spanish tax payer? Currently, Renfe is losing money in the Saudi Arabia joint venture with some of the mentioned Spanish infrastructure and services companies.
As a Spanish tax payer I don’t see why a gov owned company has to embark in dubious business like this one.
6 comments
I posted this a few days ago on /r/highspeedrail, but I think it might be relevant here as well. There’s also an important context to this development which is Renfe’s expansion being constantly blocked by SNCF, which must be all the more annoying since SNCF is already present in the Spanish domestic market.
For this route they will try to secure the train paths not via the French authorities, but the British ones
> Renfe also confirmed it plans to approach British infrastructure manager HS1 Ltd and Channel Tunnel manager Getlink for approval to run trains, rather than via French authorities after it suffered problems gaining approval to operate on the Paris – Lyon – Marseille corridor. “Both are well positioned in France and very interested in the development of the project,” the spokesperson says.
[Paywall – RailJournal.com](https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/renfe-wants-to-operate-trains-to-london/)
**How does SNCF block Renfe?**
1. “Renfe has condemned French claims that its class 100 trains built by Alstom, and based on the same design as TGV, which operate as far as Lyon without any issue, cause electromagnetic interference between Lyon and Paris.”
2. “The manufacturer [Talgo] is reportedly facing difficulties with securing signalling equipment which combines ETCS with the French TVM 430 cab signalling system, which is not possible without the cooperation of French National Railways (SNCF) Group companies.”
3. “Renfe has therefore shifted focus to securing approval to operate its new Talgo class 106 trains in France (…) with ETCS, TVM 430 and the French KVB conventional signalling system. However, Renfe now faces a separate problem – obtaining and approving on-train bi-standard ERTMS/KVB cab signalling for its new trains. **Alstom is the monopoly provider of this equipment** and has been criticised in the past by Stadler for pricing and delivery time. Stadler even went so far as to produce its own Guardia ERTMS cab signalling in order to avoid such problems.”
4. “The Spanish company is also interested in bidding to operate regional passenger services under Public Service Obligation rules but El Pais reports that it has received insufficient information on the lines concerned from the current operator, SNCF.”
[Renfe loses patience with France – RailJournal.com – Paywall](https://www.railjournal.com/financial/renfe-loses-patience-with-france/)
**AND THERE’S MORE, It’s not just Renfe complaining**
* [French cooperative Railcoop had to delay launch of a service because they didn’t receive paths after 18 months of talks, paths that were previously deemd open by SNCF Réseau](https://www.railtech.com/infrastructure/2021/10/12/railcoop-has-to-delay-bordeaux-lyon-service-for-6-months/)
* [There’s doubts whether french startup, Le Train, will be able to get TGV rolling stock as SNCF has not offered TGV sets for sale in the past, preferring to instead send them to be scrapped](https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/french-start-up-proposes-open-access-tgv-services/)
Because porque no, right?
Are they a good operator? I’m not aware of any particular issues with the French service but competition is normally a good thing.
The bit that (financially) hurt the service during lockdown is the cost of trains to use the infrastructure, requiring a fee per train, regardless of capacity. I bet those companies are happy to agree to more trains.
Would be a lot easier without bloody Brexit.
Is Renfe who wants to operate Paris-London independently? or is Renfe going to be just a financial umbrella for Spanish infrastructure and services companies that want to expand its business at the expense of the Spanish tax payer? Currently, Renfe is losing money in the Saudi Arabia joint venture with some of the mentioned Spanish infrastructure and services companies.
As a Spanish tax payer I don’t see why a gov owned company has to embark in dubious business like this one.
How much the train’s speed current ?