We need to respect the free market. If it determines a cost of living, then it should be up to individuals whether or not that is a cost they are willing to pay, just like any other service.
How are you going to make an employer raise wages above market rate even though the employer gets hundreds of applications from people willing to accept the current shit salary their offering because the job market is tipped in their favour? Striking and collective bargaining only works if there isn’t a queue of desperate people willing to take your place.
No, no, no, NO, NO!!! The *free market* is the risen Christ and you will surrender your anus to it and fucking like it.
You need to tackle high inflation first before you raise wages. When you have a national crisis then everything else is secondary.
What we need is better law on employee contracts, as well as raising the minimum wage to an acceptable level.
Current situation or not, the current rate is not good enough.
We also need to dispense with the Conservative, Liberal, Labour parties. These political parties are self serving, and run by people who haven’t got a clue what it’s like to live in the real world.
Classing them as the “only solution” means we get a wage-price spiral, and don’t actually address the features causing the cost of living crisis.
But didn’t the exceedingly rich man from the Bank of England say that was the wrong thing to do?
Of course we should believe him – he’s rich. He must know what he’s talking about.
Its not the only solution, lower prices in the shops and wealth tax on the rich, to pay for those prices and tax on companys like shell and BP to pay for the cost of oil and gas is a much better idea.
This only works if those increased costs are not passed on to the customers otherwise it becomes a bit pointless.
So in that case it either means :
A). increased productivity per employee
OR
B). the business absorbs the cost.
A) is difficult and the UK is shit at it. B) sounds great, all those businesses making all that money and keeping it to themselves, but in reality it is not always possible. Large corporations with large profits can probably absorb it otherwise it would just turn a lot of companies into zombie companies. If you don’t make money the business cannot grow or invest, in productivity for example.
But definitely there are a lot of companies that could afford to pay more. The energy companies for one have been doing quite well out of the energy crisis situation 🙂 (not the small ones).
Most of he issues are down to mismanagement of the economy and essential services by the government. e.g. reducing gas storage capacity, leaving the EU. There is a general global issue at he moment but the UK is doing very badly. So in terms of the shit hitting the fan globally the UK is about the only country to have given its economy repeated doses of laxative.
A reduction in the constant supply of cheap labour through mass immigration might be a good start.
this will naturally happen
if you are paid shit, get a new job, only way for company’s to realise when they are taking the piss
Only for those with jobs. I don’t see a rise in benefits any time soon. I’m signed off for a few months and I get £295 a month from benefits. My electric, gas and water, council tax and my buildings maintenance charge on a 1 bedroom flat comes to £240. Luxury extras like phone, internet and a music learning app I use for 10 quid a month comes to £60. I quit the gym as I cost 27 a month.
Leaving me with (negative) -£5 for food.
Having never been in debt, borrowed money or had a mortgage (I own the property outright) and always paying my way on Debit not credit card.. meas I have an atrocious credit score. I can’t get an overdraft AT ALL and I cat get a loan. Brilliant system huh..
If I go overdrawn at my bank, which happens every month before my benefits go in and promptly evaporate overnight from bills, means that I am overdrawn for about 48 hours a month. I get charged £7 every month for that privilege.I am slowly going into serious debt that I cannt get out of and the anxiety is goig to kill me.
I don’t know what people’s views on benefits are, if they’ve ever had to use them or know about them. If the Sun and Daily Mail are to be believed, only immigrants, single mothers with 8 babies and scammers are people that get ALL the benefits, stealing money from the pot for everyone else to reap the rewards. We cat build a new hospita, pay doctors more or fix the potholes in the roads because of all the money we have to give out to people not working on benefits..
I’m part of a group of people entirely on benefits, we support each other in a Whatsapp group – issues range from MS to schizophrenia or severe spinal injuries and even terminal condition, paralysing them from the neck down.. the subject of benefits comes up a lot. Always the roadblocks and beurocracy, the guidelines that don’t fit particular illnesses.
Every one of them wants to work and a few attempt business from home to supplement income – but they all absolutely need benefits to stay alive. Along with myself, we have had to fight for years to get the bare minimum – PIP (for severe, no chance of ever working, injuries) it takes 22 weeks to examine a single case and grant extra money. It also takes 2 – 5 months get on benefits in the first place .
My point is that this announcement focuses entirely on people earning. Those that cannot, it’s another opportunity to continue to stay at the same rate past inflation and real world living costs.
People are freaking out for good reason. The worst recession of all time is likely round the corner and costs are continuing to rise across the board – ironic that there’s nothing to buy as shelves begin to empty due to supply chain issues. Which will be further compounded by climate change destroying crops at their source.
For god’s sake.. tax the rich.
Their top 1% owning 99% of all money is a grotesque statistic.
Wouldn’t that just be a short term fix? If everyone got paid more, won’t these companies then just say for them to continue operating due to paying higher wages to their staff, they’ll have to increase the products price?
Lol higher wages will increase prices and rents which are the things we want to fix in the first place.
You should be able to live a comfortable lifestyle working full time no matter what job you’re doing. You should NOT be busting your arse grinding away 40 hours a week (or more) to come home and starve or be afraid to put the heating on.
Higher wages actually fuel inflation and make things worse. Inflation is caused, among other things, by more demand than supply. The only solution is to raise interest rates, but politicians and the markets don’t want to do this as it causes the value of assets to fall and leads to recession. The interest rate now needs to be 8%, but because everyone is kicking the can down the road we could eventually see interest rates of 15% – just like in the 80s. At the moment, the Fed and Bank of England don’t have the balls to act because they don’t want to be known as the ones who crashed the economy – even though it will save it in the long term. UK debt to GDP is around 98%, and around 30% of all the US dollars in circulation have been printed in the past two years (that’s around $15trn I think). Money printing and debt has been used to keep global economies going and that’s why we have inflation. Higher wages will make that worse. It doesn’t really matter though. The global economy, house prices, the stock market are all going to shit – it’s just a matter of when. The only other solution is a super tax on all businesses, like FDR had in the 1930s and 1940s… but that will never happen because politicians and financiers hold all he power.
Or a riot, and a walk out of all big businesses. Storm number 10 and riot until they correct all there shit and we put in a government for the people.
“So you’re telling me there’s a chance…?”
– Lloyd Christmas, Dumb & Dumber
Having done the monumentally stupid thing of voting for Brexit, we have made our country relatively poorer than the rest of the world, we might just have to accept that the many goods we import are simply less affordable now, and there is nothing we can do about it.
Of course we need to ensure that the poorest aren’t left to freeze or starve. But if fuel and many imported foods are more expensive, no amount of pissing around with our own economy is going to make up for it.
We might all have to accept a diminished standard of living. That’s why 48% voted remain, but unfortunately the consequences are going to be all too real for all of us.
That’s basically how the inflationary spiral works. Price inflation leads to wage inflation, wage inflation leads to price inflation and it all evens out in the long-run.
Over time society is going from 30% of people owning 50% of all wealth, to 10% of people owning 60% of all wealth, to 2% of people owning 70% of all wealth and so on.
The more wealth you have, the faster you gain more wealth assuming a usual 5-10% return on your investments. Someone worth £10m, might get £1m richer each year, but someone worth £10bn might get £1bn richer each year.
This will ultimately lead to a situation where 99% of everything has been purchased by 0.01% of the richest people. As the richest get richer they are running out of things to buy up with their money, causing record lows in investment returns.
Currently we are seeing a lot of money starting to flow into companies buying houses and renting them, as the economic incentives are there, and for the average person renting will become the new normal, while owning your own home will be seen as something only rich people do.
Maybe it’s my low blood sugar talking, but a somewhat radical idea is starting to form. I think that minimum wage should be calculated based on multiple factors (such as: industry type, short-, medium-, and long-term implications for the person’ health, exposure to harmful chemicals if any, and to some extent — the amount of generated profits by the businesses in that industry).
And I mean ONLY to some extent; this isn’t about redistribution of wealth and actually being radical for the sake of it. But the reality is that companies never compete for employees during recession (with the exception of top positions in certain sectors, maybe) and so the market salary rate in its original form — as consequence of natural competition between businesses to recruit and retain staff — no longer exists.
(For instance, someone posted an article recently, about a guy offering barely £10ph for his hotel staff in an area where no one who might actually want to apply could afford to move to (or even commute!) because it’s like a British equivalent of Hamptons. I mean it’s idiotic and infuriating at the same time.)
If there are any economists around, tell me if that’s crazy, or if I’m onto something.
Is everyone in r/UK twelve years old? I refuse to believe that so many people are completely ignorant of basic economics.
Also government would need to regulate prices as we all know rich greedy cunts will just shoot up prices even more
I can’t believe people believe the wage-inflation thing. For that to be true, 100% (or more) of the price of goods would have to be labour. Which it isn’t these days out side of a few heavily subsidised weird small industries…
Higher wages that don’t derive from a state-mandated directive… In other words a completely diferent economy than we have ever had. Might take some decades to get to that.
In the meantime it’s essential to have major socialised services in certain keys areas: health, transport, energy and housing. And to not charge people for attending higher education.
Or letting more people to paid their own mortgage instead of someone else also helps. House price the root of literally every money problem. End of.
I’m thinking prices will never go down….never time where they were.
28 comments
We need to respect the free market. If it determines a cost of living, then it should be up to individuals whether or not that is a cost they are willing to pay, just like any other service.
How are you going to make an employer raise wages above market rate even though the employer gets hundreds of applications from people willing to accept the current shit salary their offering because the job market is tipped in their favour? Striking and collective bargaining only works if there isn’t a queue of desperate people willing to take your place.
No, no, no, NO, NO!!! The *free market* is the risen Christ and you will surrender your anus to it and fucking like it.
You need to tackle high inflation first before you raise wages. When you have a national crisis then everything else is secondary.
What we need is better law on employee contracts, as well as raising the minimum wage to an acceptable level.
Current situation or not, the current rate is not good enough.
We also need to dispense with the Conservative, Liberal, Labour parties. These political parties are self serving, and run by people who haven’t got a clue what it’s like to live in the real world.
Classing them as the “only solution” means we get a wage-price spiral, and don’t actually address the features causing the cost of living crisis.
But didn’t the exceedingly rich man from the Bank of England say that was the wrong thing to do?
Of course we should believe him – he’s rich. He must know what he’s talking about.
Its not the only solution, lower prices in the shops and wealth tax on the rich, to pay for those prices and tax on companys like shell and BP to pay for the cost of oil and gas is a much better idea.
This only works if those increased costs are not passed on to the customers otherwise it becomes a bit pointless.
So in that case it either means :
A). increased productivity per employee
OR
B). the business absorbs the cost.
A) is difficult and the UK is shit at it. B) sounds great, all those businesses making all that money and keeping it to themselves, but in reality it is not always possible. Large corporations with large profits can probably absorb it otherwise it would just turn a lot of companies into zombie companies. If you don’t make money the business cannot grow or invest, in productivity for example.
But definitely there are a lot of companies that could afford to pay more. The energy companies for one have been doing quite well out of the energy crisis situation 🙂 (not the small ones).
Most of he issues are down to mismanagement of the economy and essential services by the government. e.g. reducing gas storage capacity, leaving the EU. There is a general global issue at he moment but the UK is doing very badly. So in terms of the shit hitting the fan globally the UK is about the only country to have given its economy repeated doses of laxative.
A reduction in the constant supply of cheap labour through mass immigration might be a good start.
this will naturally happen
if you are paid shit, get a new job, only way for company’s to realise when they are taking the piss
Only for those with jobs. I don’t see a rise in benefits any time soon. I’m signed off for a few months and I get £295 a month from benefits. My electric, gas and water, council tax and my buildings maintenance charge on a 1 bedroom flat comes to £240. Luxury extras like phone, internet and a music learning app I use for 10 quid a month comes to £60. I quit the gym as I cost 27 a month.
Leaving me with (negative) -£5 for food.
Having never been in debt, borrowed money or had a mortgage (I own the property outright) and always paying my way on Debit not credit card.. meas I have an atrocious credit score. I can’t get an overdraft AT ALL and I cat get a loan. Brilliant system huh..
If I go overdrawn at my bank, which happens every month before my benefits go in and promptly evaporate overnight from bills, means that I am overdrawn for about 48 hours a month. I get charged £7 every month for that privilege.I am slowly going into serious debt that I cannt get out of and the anxiety is goig to kill me.
I don’t know what people’s views on benefits are, if they’ve ever had to use them or know about them. If the Sun and Daily Mail are to be believed, only immigrants, single mothers with 8 babies and scammers are people that get ALL the benefits, stealing money from the pot for everyone else to reap the rewards. We cat build a new hospita, pay doctors more or fix the potholes in the roads because of all the money we have to give out to people not working on benefits..
I’m part of a group of people entirely on benefits, we support each other in a Whatsapp group – issues range from MS to schizophrenia or severe spinal injuries and even terminal condition, paralysing them from the neck down.. the subject of benefits comes up a lot. Always the roadblocks and beurocracy, the guidelines that don’t fit particular illnesses.
Every one of them wants to work and a few attempt business from home to supplement income – but they all absolutely need benefits to stay alive. Along with myself, we have had to fight for years to get the bare minimum – PIP (for severe, no chance of ever working, injuries) it takes 22 weeks to examine a single case and grant extra money. It also takes 2 – 5 months get on benefits in the first place .
My point is that this announcement focuses entirely on people earning. Those that cannot, it’s another opportunity to continue to stay at the same rate past inflation and real world living costs.
People are freaking out for good reason. The worst recession of all time is likely round the corner and costs are continuing to rise across the board – ironic that there’s nothing to buy as shelves begin to empty due to supply chain issues. Which will be further compounded by climate change destroying crops at their source.
For god’s sake.. tax the rich.
Their top 1% owning 99% of all money is a grotesque statistic.
Wouldn’t that just be a short term fix? If everyone got paid more, won’t these companies then just say for them to continue operating due to paying higher wages to their staff, they’ll have to increase the products price?
Lol higher wages will increase prices and rents which are the things we want to fix in the first place.
You should be able to live a comfortable lifestyle working full time no matter what job you’re doing. You should NOT be busting your arse grinding away 40 hours a week (or more) to come home and starve or be afraid to put the heating on.
Higher wages actually fuel inflation and make things worse. Inflation is caused, among other things, by more demand than supply. The only solution is to raise interest rates, but politicians and the markets don’t want to do this as it causes the value of assets to fall and leads to recession. The interest rate now needs to be 8%, but because everyone is kicking the can down the road we could eventually see interest rates of 15% – just like in the 80s. At the moment, the Fed and Bank of England don’t have the balls to act because they don’t want to be known as the ones who crashed the economy – even though it will save it in the long term. UK debt to GDP is around 98%, and around 30% of all the US dollars in circulation have been printed in the past two years (that’s around $15trn I think). Money printing and debt has been used to keep global economies going and that’s why we have inflation. Higher wages will make that worse. It doesn’t really matter though. The global economy, house prices, the stock market are all going to shit – it’s just a matter of when. The only other solution is a super tax on all businesses, like FDR had in the 1930s and 1940s… but that will never happen because politicians and financiers hold all he power.
Or a riot, and a walk out of all big businesses. Storm number 10 and riot until they correct all there shit and we put in a government for the people.
“So you’re telling me there’s a chance…?”
– Lloyd Christmas, Dumb & Dumber
Having done the monumentally stupid thing of voting for Brexit, we have made our country relatively poorer than the rest of the world, we might just have to accept that the many goods we import are simply less affordable now, and there is nothing we can do about it.
Of course we need to ensure that the poorest aren’t left to freeze or starve. But if fuel and many imported foods are more expensive, no amount of pissing around with our own economy is going to make up for it.
We might all have to accept a diminished standard of living. That’s why 48% voted remain, but unfortunately the consequences are going to be all too real for all of us.
That’s basically how the inflationary spiral works. Price inflation leads to wage inflation, wage inflation leads to price inflation and it all evens out in the long-run.
Over time society is going from 30% of people owning 50% of all wealth, to 10% of people owning 60% of all wealth, to 2% of people owning 70% of all wealth and so on.
The more wealth you have, the faster you gain more wealth assuming a usual 5-10% return on your investments. Someone worth £10m, might get £1m richer each year, but someone worth £10bn might get £1bn richer each year.
This will ultimately lead to a situation where 99% of everything has been purchased by 0.01% of the richest people. As the richest get richer they are running out of things to buy up with their money, causing record lows in investment returns.
Currently we are seeing a lot of money starting to flow into companies buying houses and renting them, as the economic incentives are there, and for the average person renting will become the new normal, while owning your own home will be seen as something only rich people do.
Maybe it’s my low blood sugar talking, but a somewhat radical idea is starting to form. I think that minimum wage should be calculated based on multiple factors (such as: industry type, short-, medium-, and long-term implications for the person’ health, exposure to harmful chemicals if any, and to some extent — the amount of generated profits by the businesses in that industry).
And I mean ONLY to some extent; this isn’t about redistribution of wealth and actually being radical for the sake of it. But the reality is that companies never compete for employees during recession (with the exception of top positions in certain sectors, maybe) and so the market salary rate in its original form — as consequence of natural competition between businesses to recruit and retain staff — no longer exists.
(For instance, someone posted an article recently, about a guy offering barely £10ph for his hotel staff in an area where no one who might actually want to apply could afford to move to (or even commute!) because it’s like a British equivalent of Hamptons. I mean it’s idiotic and infuriating at the same time.)
If there are any economists around, tell me if that’s crazy, or if I’m onto something.
Is everyone in r/UK twelve years old? I refuse to believe that so many people are completely ignorant of basic economics.
Also government would need to regulate prices as we all know rich greedy cunts will just shoot up prices even more
I can’t believe people believe the wage-inflation thing. For that to be true, 100% (or more) of the price of goods would have to be labour. Which it isn’t these days out side of a few heavily subsidised weird small industries…
Higher wages that don’t derive from a state-mandated directive… In other words a completely diferent economy than we have ever had. Might take some decades to get to that.
In the meantime it’s essential to have major socialised services in certain keys areas: health, transport, energy and housing. And to not charge people for attending higher education.
Or letting more people to paid their own mortgage instead of someone else also helps. House price the root of literally every money problem. End of.
I’m thinking prices will never go down….never time where they were.