If they prefer russia then let them be.
But no whining when putler sacks serbia as a thrid place prize.
Gee I wonder why…
Simplifies the process.
It’s ok, they don’t *have to* join.
I seriously don’t get some Western Europeans who think having countries like Serbia join the EU will magically make them less authoritarian, undemocratic, or just overall more “Western”. It’s a similar logic to the “McDonalds theory”, or that as poor countries get rich and have an improved standard of living wars will magically disappear and we’ll all live in a neoliberal utopia. Right. It ignores that there are such things as culture and history.
Edit: to expand on the “culture and history” part. First, Orthodox Christian countries generally don’t have a tradition of what we today would call liberalism, or rather the importance of the individual, freedom as well as some degrees of secularization; they haven’t experienced the medieval and post-medieval renaissances or the enlightenment the way most Western Christian countries have, and that’s one of the reasons Orthodox (or formerly Orthodox) countries tend to be both more authoritarian and poorer. Second, Serbia has had a bad track record with “the West”, with some of the reasons being justifiable on Serbia’s part and others not. And third, Serbian culture in general heavily emphasizes a sort of defiant stubbornness, for better or worse. This is something I’ve noticed many Serbs are proud of, which I don’t think is necessarily a bad or a good thing.
These are just my thoughts being from a country that neighbors Serbia, I’m definitely biased, like everyone is, but I think I have a decently well-informed and fair opinion.
I mean this isn’t really a surprise considering the war in the 90s
Well contrary to what many reddit generals think, it mostly has to do with our really slow process of entering. Vučić “winning” on elections again only solidifies that stance.
Man, imagine not loving the EU. It’s like a family.
“46% of Serbian citizens would support the country’s EU accession in a referendum, but that a mere 21% of respondents had a positive opinion on the Union.”
sooo 25% want to join a union they don’t like? It’s for the money, isn’t it?
Not surprising, really.
No matter how much the majority here would love to interpret this through the scope of the current situation with Ukraine, or even through the scope of Serbia supporting Russia, which still is nothing more than narrative treasured here and maybe on twitter, the reasons for these results don’t have much to do with it.
First of all, current government led by Ana Brnabic and Aleksandar Vucic, have so far done little to nothing regarding completion of the chapters in the ascension process. If you take a look back, it kinda stopped somewhere around 2014, when Vucic did ascend to more firm grip of power.
Second, average Serbian citizen is comfortably numbed and brought into a state of apathy regarding any hope of Serbia ever becoming one of the developed European countries with more than satisfying living standard, and all this is actively fueled by propaganda from tabloids keen to the state. This corroborates the first point really.
Third, the interpretation of the results is also what matters. So, it states that 20% view EU positively, but some 46% support EU ascension. Catastrophic results, right? However, you should take into account that Ipsos is mainly conducting a telephone polls, during workdays, so most of the people they do get to are older generations and retirees, which overwhelmingly support Vucic and Progressive party. Bear in mind that Ipsos performs polls from different clients, and one of the biggest is, what a surprise, the Progressive party.
Finally, I do agree, the objective public opinion probably is maybe a bit better, but not far from this presented here, and this actually brings Serbia in the state of eternal purgatory, neither on the left, neither on the right, not in the west, not in the east.
Nonetheless, Vucic is even now being praised by the EU officials, and getting a tap on the head by both Macrone and Braebock.
The current narrative pushed in some parts of the Serbian public is, that this kind of “eternal purgatory” state is fine, while also downplaying the advances and benefits that Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria for instance gained by joining EU.
More or less, that’s it.
I am very pro-EU, but the point is that “EU accession” topic is 20 years old. It becomes passé to discuss about it in Serbia. People are perceiving this – if EU wanted us, they would already let us in.
Meanwhile EU has changed a lot as well.
How do you expect Serb people to think positively about EU when EU’s citizens like you just reflect how we would be treated if we ever joined. Do you ever just think about that? Maybe the problem isn’t just us, but your God complex would never accept that.
And the main culprit would be years, or rather decades of Russian and anti-West propaganda that only worsened following the NATO bombings and Kosovo’s declaration of independence.
It’s a sad reality for all the people who want to live in a peaceful and prosperous society. Pro-European youth can only move to EU and run away, far away from here, if they’re among the lucky ones…
That’s okey that was always allowed.
Unlike in Russia you have the right to voice your opinion in EU.
Fair enough: they are not in the EU and most of them don’t want to join. Be my guest and stay outside of EU.
Honestly, I can’t be bothered, we have Hungary to deal with. Let’s check in with them a decade from now, see if they’ve cleared their heads. It’s not conducive to anything to bash them constantly over them not liking the EU, it’s a waste of energy.
I wonder what % of EU citizens view Serbia positively.
Wonder how many EU citizens view Serbia positively. Joining works both ways..
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Not really our loss
I understand them.
Yeah, no shit. We bombed them to pieces. Of course they distrust us.
We’ve already got Poland and Hungary, the last thing we need is Serbia to join the fray.
I wonder if the perception of Serbia in this sub is skewed in a similar way to how the positions that American people on this website hold aren’t very representative of the general US population. I say this because the chasm between how negatively people here view Serbia and what I’ve experienced as a Serb living in Western Europe and the US for extended periods of time is pretty big. Here even a thread with a picture of one our monasteries for example always has a ton of comments about genocide, Vucic, war etc.
I’m not sure I’d want Serbia in the EU even should they fix their democracy and adhere to all standards.
I get pure Trojan Horse vibes from the idea of inducting them. The moment they are in they can turn a 180 and sabotage the EU from the inside. Just like Hungary and Poland do.
I don’t think EU people can ever understand our point of view. And this is just a matter-of-fact, not some self-pity statement.
I’m somewhere in-between myself. I hate my people’s love of Russia, which is based on literally nothing (maybe some false memories of them supporting us and helping, and communism, of course), but I can’t really blame them for not liking EU. I mean, you’re saying one country can’t enter another one and demand a piece of it, but you’re actively supporting Kosovo’s independence. We also lost lives in NATO bombing and you cant really say the 3 year old that died deserved it, can you? And basically, the whole Europe thinks of us as some butchers that only have blood on our minds – this coming from countries whose crimes have all been conveniently forgotten and swept under the carpet. Yes, we made terrible mistakes but if I’m not blaming you for your ancestors bullshit, why should you blame me? Let’s never forget, hate is such an ugly thing and destructive thing, but how long will you punish those that got left behind?
In the end, how could we ever really feel welcome?
Most of EU citizens know only of us from the 90s war and the information they got from sources that of course supported our neighbors. How many of you have actually stepped foot in Serbia in this century? How many have really tried to understand and learn more about our country?
I would say – not many. And it’s understandable, can’t really say I don’t do it myself, it’s easier to think of one nation as bad guys and other one as the good ones, it makes life easier.
But, it’s a bit unfair to judge us by our worst people, when your country is judged by its best ones.
To be honest, I don’t know why I’m writing this, probably the format will be shit and Im not gonna change shit, but I just have these moments of insanity where I try to make people see that there is so much goodness in Serbia. Despite its past and the idiots part, I swear, people would offer your their last piece of bread to share. We form close bonds, often we live for our friends, we are passionate (even if yes, sometimes, this passion is misguided), we save stray animals, we love visitors, we have so many great minds and artists, we come together to help individuals, and most of us are just tired of living like third class humans on the continent we can’t exactly move from. But we are shit at marketing and we suck at politics. So, yeah, I wasted a lot of words. Fuck
I really don’t get why the EU keeps sending money to Serbia.
Out of the Loop American here:
Why such a low number? does it have to do with the wars in the 90s?
I mean, majority of you don’t want us there, majority of us don’t want to be there. You give us money, we remain neutral. What more can you ask for?
i think the EU has enough pro-Putin governments, doesnt need another.
Well, NATO did bomb the hell outta em back in the 90’s
Surprised?
Serbia is like that insecure person who knows it’ll be rejected, so it takes preemptive action and rejects other people first.
Anyways, EU doesn’t need another Russian intruder amongst it’s ranks. Enough shit with Hungary already.
Are you sure about that? Honestly, I’d believe a reddit poll on this matter more than this.
I dong ding dinga dong.
what? sure, I guess there are better things in life than equality, wealth, social security, Rule of law, quality of life, and opportunity?
38 comments
If they prefer russia then let them be.
But no whining when putler sacks serbia as a thrid place prize.
Gee I wonder why…
Simplifies the process.
It’s ok, they don’t *have to* join.
I seriously don’t get some Western Europeans who think having countries like Serbia join the EU will magically make them less authoritarian, undemocratic, or just overall more “Western”. It’s a similar logic to the “McDonalds theory”, or that as poor countries get rich and have an improved standard of living wars will magically disappear and we’ll all live in a neoliberal utopia. Right. It ignores that there are such things as culture and history.
Edit: to expand on the “culture and history” part. First, Orthodox Christian countries generally don’t have a tradition of what we today would call liberalism, or rather the importance of the individual, freedom as well as some degrees of secularization; they haven’t experienced the medieval and post-medieval renaissances or the enlightenment the way most Western Christian countries have, and that’s one of the reasons Orthodox (or formerly Orthodox) countries tend to be both more authoritarian and poorer. Second, Serbia has had a bad track record with “the West”, with some of the reasons being justifiable on Serbia’s part and others not. And third, Serbian culture in general heavily emphasizes a sort of defiant stubbornness, for better or worse. This is something I’ve noticed many Serbs are proud of, which I don’t think is necessarily a bad or a good thing.
These are just my thoughts being from a country that neighbors Serbia, I’m definitely biased, like everyone is, but I think I have a decently well-informed and fair opinion.
I mean this isn’t really a surprise considering the war in the 90s
Well contrary to what many reddit generals think, it mostly has to do with our really slow process of entering. Vučić “winning” on elections again only solidifies that stance.
Man, imagine not loving the EU. It’s like a family.
“46% of Serbian citizens would support the country’s EU accession in a referendum, but that a mere 21% of respondents had a positive opinion on the Union.”
sooo 25% want to join a union they don’t like? It’s for the money, isn’t it?
Not surprising, really.
No matter how much the majority here would love to interpret this through the scope of the current situation with Ukraine, or even through the scope of Serbia supporting Russia, which still is nothing more than narrative treasured here and maybe on twitter, the reasons for these results don’t have much to do with it.
First of all, current government led by Ana Brnabic and Aleksandar Vucic, have so far done little to nothing regarding completion of the chapters in the ascension process. If you take a look back, it kinda stopped somewhere around 2014, when Vucic did ascend to more firm grip of power.
Second, average Serbian citizen is comfortably numbed and brought into a state of apathy regarding any hope of Serbia ever becoming one of the developed European countries with more than satisfying living standard, and all this is actively fueled by propaganda from tabloids keen to the state. This corroborates the first point really.
Third, the interpretation of the results is also what matters. So, it states that 20% view EU positively, but some 46% support EU ascension. Catastrophic results, right? However, you should take into account that Ipsos is mainly conducting a telephone polls, during workdays, so most of the people they do get to are older generations and retirees, which overwhelmingly support Vucic and Progressive party. Bear in mind that Ipsos performs polls from different clients, and one of the biggest is, what a surprise, the Progressive party.
Finally, I do agree, the objective public opinion probably is maybe a bit better, but not far from this presented here, and this actually brings Serbia in the state of eternal purgatory, neither on the left, neither on the right, not in the west, not in the east.
Nonetheless, Vucic is even now being praised by the EU officials, and getting a tap on the head by both Macrone and Braebock.
The current narrative pushed in some parts of the Serbian public is, that this kind of “eternal purgatory” state is fine, while also downplaying the advances and benefits that Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria for instance gained by joining EU.
More or less, that’s it.
I am very pro-EU, but the point is that “EU accession” topic is 20 years old. It becomes passé to discuss about it in Serbia. People are perceiving this – if EU wanted us, they would already let us in.
Meanwhile EU has changed a lot as well.
How do you expect Serb people to think positively about EU when EU’s citizens like you just reflect how we would be treated if we ever joined. Do you ever just think about that? Maybe the problem isn’t just us, but your God complex would never accept that.
And the main culprit would be years, or rather decades of Russian and anti-West propaganda that only worsened following the NATO bombings and Kosovo’s declaration of independence.
It’s a sad reality for all the people who want to live in a peaceful and prosperous society. Pro-European youth can only move to EU and run away, far away from here, if they’re among the lucky ones…
That’s okey that was always allowed.
Unlike in Russia you have the right to voice your opinion in EU.
Fair enough: they are not in the EU and most of them don’t want to join. Be my guest and stay outside of EU.
Honestly, I can’t be bothered, we have Hungary to deal with. Let’s check in with them a decade from now, see if they’ve cleared their heads. It’s not conducive to anything to bash them constantly over them not liking the EU, it’s a waste of energy.
I wonder what % of EU citizens view Serbia positively.
Wonder how many EU citizens view Serbia positively. Joining works both ways..
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Not really our loss
I understand them.
Yeah, no shit. We bombed them to pieces. Of course they distrust us.
We’ve already got Poland and Hungary, the last thing we need is Serbia to join the fray.
I wonder if the perception of Serbia in this sub is skewed in a similar way to how the positions that American people on this website hold aren’t very representative of the general US population. I say this because the chasm between how negatively people here view Serbia and what I’ve experienced as a Serb living in Western Europe and the US for extended periods of time is pretty big. Here even a thread with a picture of one our monasteries for example always has a ton of comments about genocide, Vucic, war etc.
I’m not sure I’d want Serbia in the EU even should they fix their democracy and adhere to all standards.
I get pure Trojan Horse vibes from the idea of inducting them. The moment they are in they can turn a 180 and sabotage the EU from the inside. Just like Hungary and Poland do.
I don’t think EU people can ever understand our point of view. And this is just a matter-of-fact, not some self-pity statement.
I’m somewhere in-between myself. I hate my people’s love of Russia, which is based on literally nothing (maybe some false memories of them supporting us and helping, and communism, of course), but I can’t really blame them for not liking EU. I mean, you’re saying one country can’t enter another one and demand a piece of it, but you’re actively supporting Kosovo’s independence. We also lost lives in NATO bombing and you cant really say the 3 year old that died deserved it, can you? And basically, the whole Europe thinks of us as some butchers that only have blood on our minds – this coming from countries whose crimes have all been conveniently forgotten and swept under the carpet. Yes, we made terrible mistakes but if I’m not blaming you for your ancestors bullshit, why should you blame me? Let’s never forget, hate is such an ugly thing and destructive thing, but how long will you punish those that got left behind?
In the end, how could we ever really feel welcome?
Most of EU citizens know only of us from the 90s war and the information they got from sources that of course supported our neighbors. How many of you have actually stepped foot in Serbia in this century? How many have really tried to understand and learn more about our country?
I would say – not many. And it’s understandable, can’t really say I don’t do it myself, it’s easier to think of one nation as bad guys and other one as the good ones, it makes life easier.
But, it’s a bit unfair to judge us by our worst people, when your country is judged by its best ones.
To be honest, I don’t know why I’m writing this, probably the format will be shit and Im not gonna change shit, but I just have these moments of insanity where I try to make people see that there is so much goodness in Serbia. Despite its past and the idiots part, I swear, people would offer your their last piece of bread to share. We form close bonds, often we live for our friends, we are passionate (even if yes, sometimes, this passion is misguided), we save stray animals, we love visitors, we have so many great minds and artists, we come together to help individuals, and most of us are just tired of living like third class humans on the continent we can’t exactly move from. But we are shit at marketing and we suck at politics. So, yeah, I wasted a lot of words. Fuck
I really don’t get why the EU keeps sending money to Serbia.
Out of the Loop American here:
Why such a low number? does it have to do with the wars in the 90s?
I mean, majority of you don’t want us there, majority of us don’t want to be there. You give us money, we remain neutral. What more can you ask for?
i think the EU has enough pro-Putin governments, doesnt need another.
Well, NATO did bomb the hell outta em back in the 90’s
Surprised?
Serbia is like that insecure person who knows it’ll be rejected, so it takes preemptive action and rejects other people first.
Anyways, EU doesn’t need another Russian intruder amongst it’s ranks. Enough shit with Hungary already.
Are you sure about that? Honestly, I’d believe a reddit poll on this matter more than this.
I dong ding dinga dong.
what? sure, I guess there are better things in life than equality, wealth, social security, Rule of law, quality of life, and opportunity?
So then dont join, easy.