I understand the need for people to rationalise their condition and to celebrate their lives because/regardless/in spite of it.
But moving against future medical improvements to vindicate that rationalisation is deeply immoral in my eyes.
They’re letting their pride and ego come ahead of the health of others.
As an aside, reading the paralympians talking about their amazing experiences competing at that level in this context is a bit like if footballers from favelas were chatting about how the favelas shouldn’t be improved because they (and specifically them) made it big from there.
Thought it was a great doc and still not sure how I feel about it. Most parents want the world to be a fair and easy place but acknowledge that it’s easier to be non dwarf, straight, white etc. There’s the obvious health element. It she seemed to want to look beyond that and question the side of being short. Was very interesting.
it is absolutely worth having this conversation every time one of these treatments/therapies comes up.
the world is harder for gay people right now. does that mean we should be developing drugs and treatments to turn gay people straight? are gay people who refuse that treatment ‘letting pride and ego come ahead of the health of others’?
*i’m not suggesting, for one moment, that those two things are equivalent*. i’m simply suggesting that the line between them is not very well defined. everyone is different, and some of those differences make people’s lives harder. but that doesn’t mean every difference should be ‘cured’
i don’t know anyone with dwarfism and i can’t speak on their behalf. but whenever the topic of disability comes up on this subreddit, people are very quick to make snap judgements on the health and bodily autonomy of people who they haven’t met and whose perspective they haven’t considered
I find this ethically so troubling. My wife and I are trying for a baby and if it was discovered that our baby would be born disabled, with a heart defect, a deformity, dwarfism or anything else that might impact the long-term health of our child, and we were given the choice to keep the baby as it is or to take steps during pregnancy or afterwards that would allow for a categorically better quality of life, then I think it would be tantamount to abusive not to take those steps for that child.
At the same time, I don’t want to give the impression that anyone who currently has any of those conditions is less of a person, or less deserving of acceptance and respect. I hate feeling like a eugenicist but I’d be so torn.
Watched this and felt quite divided.
I got her point.
But then she started talking about what the money/effort the development of the drug could be used for if not that and I thought – we absolutely should be creating a world that meets the needs of diverse people, but presumably (and I would happily be challenged on this) wouldn’t adapting to the needs of achondroplastic people requires effort, time and expense that could be directed to those things if it wasn’t going to them?
I also hated the bit where she talked to the primary school kid and he said he didn’t like injections but felt bad that he was mistaken for younger kids, and then she came back and said, “yeah he doesn’t like this” to his folks.
As a parent, I can’t understand not helping your child overcome disadvantages. Having a disability is a disadvantage even if society was perfect and treated everyone equally and everywhere was set up with adaptations. If this was sight or hearing, you’d think a parent was a monster if they refused treatment for their child. Dwarfism creates other physical problems. It’s not just a matter of height.
Height gain is the only ‘improvement’ of this drug!
There’s no evidence it resolves the medical complications and height is the only reason people want it.
It sickens me how much this has dividied people and as usual heightist average height who have no understand have the dominating say.
You think we spend our lifes ‘suffering’ from dwarfism and why the f*** is heightism still accepted in 2022, its absolutely messed and backwards even after this show just how twisted divided and people’s defence of the people intent on ridding us our identity that they would rather put our lives at risk to grow taller than learn some deceny and respect to who we are.
And as she said not even most cases are serious/life threatening/fatal and they could surely spend that money on curing cancers, you know ACTUAL disease, dwarfism (by which i mean the height) is difference.
I don’t get why there’s any justified reason heightism is still so socially acceptable in 2022 other than people simply being fucking bastards! Dehumanising dwafism and even every time something like this props, half the response is how dare you so selfish for not letting us bully you, desiring to cure you etc.
A difference between curing short stature and curing ACTUAL life threatening complications. This drug is primiarily a cosmetic drug and telling even those who are ‘just short’ but otherwise perfectly healthy that they still need fixing.
Yet again your just angry cos an actual person with dwarfism has (for once) the dominating vocie in a documentry about dwarfism and its as if society just never ever want us to achieve equality and make heightism socially unacceptable.
IT’s fucked!
You should not have to be “taller” to improve life!
Its about time we tackle heightism and make it every bit as socially unacceptable as racism, the fact it still remains not only accepted but encourage and the fact that rather than being supported, we get backlashed because we ask to be treated fairly and equally like its such a difficult issue to do when it isn’t
It sickens me and one thing people Simply being ‘short’ is not a disability, yes we need some adaptions but we can work that.
This drug does not tackle the medical complications, it only gains height, that’s all! And where in all this is actual people with dwarfism having any say in this? Not about individual choices but the drug as a whole existing. And the morals it teaches! Its fucked up.
Fucked up that people are so defensive of their right to eradicate people being anything other than societys superfical of “perfectly normal” and they can’t filter ethic to ACTUAL disease, i.e that actually kill or cause severe pain which dwarfism mostly doesn’t or isn’t long term.
Spend the money curing cancer, covid etc.
For fuck sake all we want is a life of peace and fiarness why the fuck is that so hard to achieve, people stop at nothing to give us a hard time then victimise us for standing up against it. All people care about is their right to take away autonomy from people with dwarfism to have any say in their lifes, whether it’s how they’re portrayed (dehumanised ) or how they are viewed medically (disease/needs curing/suffering from dwarfism) bull shit
8 comments
I understand the need for people to rationalise their condition and to celebrate their lives because/regardless/in spite of it.
But moving against future medical improvements to vindicate that rationalisation is deeply immoral in my eyes.
They’re letting their pride and ego come ahead of the health of others.
As an aside, reading the paralympians talking about their amazing experiences competing at that level in this context is a bit like if footballers from favelas were chatting about how the favelas shouldn’t be improved because they (and specifically them) made it big from there.
Thought it was a great doc and still not sure how I feel about it. Most parents want the world to be a fair and easy place but acknowledge that it’s easier to be non dwarf, straight, white etc. There’s the obvious health element. It she seemed to want to look beyond that and question the side of being short. Was very interesting.
it is absolutely worth having this conversation every time one of these treatments/therapies comes up.
the world is harder for gay people right now. does that mean we should be developing drugs and treatments to turn gay people straight? are gay people who refuse that treatment ‘letting pride and ego come ahead of the health of others’?
*i’m not suggesting, for one moment, that those two things are equivalent*. i’m simply suggesting that the line between them is not very well defined. everyone is different, and some of those differences make people’s lives harder. but that doesn’t mean every difference should be ‘cured’
i don’t know anyone with dwarfism and i can’t speak on their behalf. but whenever the topic of disability comes up on this subreddit, people are very quick to make snap judgements on the health and bodily autonomy of people who they haven’t met and whose perspective they haven’t considered
I find this ethically so troubling. My wife and I are trying for a baby and if it was discovered that our baby would be born disabled, with a heart defect, a deformity, dwarfism or anything else that might impact the long-term health of our child, and we were given the choice to keep the baby as it is or to take steps during pregnancy or afterwards that would allow for a categorically better quality of life, then I think it would be tantamount to abusive not to take those steps for that child.
At the same time, I don’t want to give the impression that anyone who currently has any of those conditions is less of a person, or less deserving of acceptance and respect. I hate feeling like a eugenicist but I’d be so torn.
Watched this and felt quite divided.
I got her point.
But then she started talking about what the money/effort the development of the drug could be used for if not that and I thought – we absolutely should be creating a world that meets the needs of diverse people, but presumably (and I would happily be challenged on this) wouldn’t adapting to the needs of achondroplastic people requires effort, time and expense that could be directed to those things if it wasn’t going to them?
I also hated the bit where she talked to the primary school kid and he said he didn’t like injections but felt bad that he was mistaken for younger kids, and then she came back and said, “yeah he doesn’t like this” to his folks.
As a parent, I can’t understand not helping your child overcome disadvantages. Having a disability is a disadvantage even if society was perfect and treated everyone equally and everywhere was set up with adaptations. If this was sight or hearing, you’d think a parent was a monster if they refused treatment for their child. Dwarfism creates other physical problems. It’s not just a matter of height.
Height gain is the only ‘improvement’ of this drug!
There’s no evidence it resolves the medical complications and height is the only reason people want it.
It sickens me how much this has dividied people and as usual heightist average height who have no understand have the dominating say.
You think we spend our lifes ‘suffering’ from dwarfism and why the f*** is heightism still accepted in 2022, its absolutely messed and backwards even after this show just how twisted divided and people’s defence of the people intent on ridding us our identity that they would rather put our lives at risk to grow taller than learn some deceny and respect to who we are.
And as she said not even most cases are serious/life threatening/fatal and they could surely spend that money on curing cancers, you know ACTUAL disease, dwarfism (by which i mean the height) is difference.
I don’t get why there’s any justified reason heightism is still so socially acceptable in 2022 other than people simply being fucking bastards! Dehumanising dwafism and even every time something like this props, half the response is how dare you so selfish for not letting us bully you, desiring to cure you etc.
A difference between curing short stature and curing ACTUAL life threatening complications. This drug is primiarily a cosmetic drug and telling even those who are ‘just short’ but otherwise perfectly healthy that they still need fixing.
Yet again your just angry cos an actual person with dwarfism has (for once) the dominating vocie in a documentry about dwarfism and its as if society just never ever want us to achieve equality and make heightism socially unacceptable.
IT’s fucked!
You should not have to be “taller” to improve life!
Its about time we tackle heightism and make it every bit as socially unacceptable as racism, the fact it still remains not only accepted but encourage and the fact that rather than being supported, we get backlashed because we ask to be treated fairly and equally like its such a difficult issue to do when it isn’t
It sickens me and one thing people Simply being ‘short’ is not a disability, yes we need some adaptions but we can work that.
This drug does not tackle the medical complications, it only gains height, that’s all! And where in all this is actual people with dwarfism having any say in this? Not about individual choices but the drug as a whole existing. And the morals it teaches! Its fucked up.
Fucked up that people are so defensive of their right to eradicate people being anything other than societys superfical of “perfectly normal” and they can’t filter ethic to ACTUAL disease, i.e that actually kill or cause severe pain which dwarfism mostly doesn’t or isn’t long term.
Spend the money curing cancer, covid etc.
For fuck sake all we want is a life of peace and fiarness why the fuck is that so hard to achieve, people stop at nothing to give us a hard time then victimise us for standing up against it. All people care about is their right to take away autonomy from people with dwarfism to have any say in their lifes, whether it’s how they’re portrayed (dehumanised ) or how they are viewed medically (disease/needs curing/suffering from dwarfism) bull shit