Tucker Confronts Ted Cruz on His Support for Regime Change in Iran
senator thank you very much for spending the time to have this conversation it’s good to be with you so you’ve come out for regime change in Iran as distinct just from taking out the nuclear sites what does regime change look like in Iran somebody else in charge how do you get there look that ultimately has to be a popular uprising from the people and it it’s not a complicated question is America better off with a country that has a leader who hates us and want to kills wants to kill us or to have a country with a leader who likes us and wants to be friends with us and and definitely the latter is better of course and so that’s not a complicated statement look I I believe you look across the world when you have countries that have dictators that are viciously anti-America uh Venezuela Maduro hates us would we be better off with Maduro out of power absolutely i I want our enemies out of power and I want our friends in power that I could not agree more the question is how do you get there of course we’ve been trying to kill Maduro for quite some time we have troops there as I don’t know that we’ve been trying to kill Maduro we have and um I think you know that and um I don’t know that okay well we as a statement of fact we have so we do have massive sanctions we tried to pressure him out of office yeah i’m not aware of I’m just saying there’s a lot of pressure coming from various parts of the US government on that government and it’s still there same the country of very ancestors Cuba you know 1959 we’ve been working on that hasn’t worked so it’s it’s I we both agree it’s hard to do it it absolutely is hard and look I think you’re reasonable to ask how do we produce that and and I think there’s a distinction between what your objective is and the means to get it there are all sorts of things I would say we would be better off we’d be better off in China without shei there should we invade China and topple she of course not better off with no national debt you know there are lots of things but but it’s good to say all right what are our objectives and so with the Ayatollah in Iran saying you’re for regime change I I don’t view as complicated i mean the the guy literally leads mobs chanting death to America so so that’s not good um definitely not good um but the reason I think it’s important to get a little more detailed about how that might happen is because there’s military action in progress which we’re supporting and the president has said clearly including last night that he is focused on eliminating the capacity of the Iranian government to produce nuclear weapons you are saying we need to use military force to affect regime change i have not said that oh I I must have No no I I have not not said that once i I don’t think we need to use military force to do regime change i said I support it i would like to see it happen you asked me how should it happen a popular uprising what So what I’ve advocated for All right let’s step back a second you and I we’ve known each other a long time i would say we agree on about 80% of the things on Earth for sure and there are a lot of things and and we can get into the nitty-gritty of foreign policy as much as you want there are a lot of things on which you and I agree not just a little bit but violently i totally agree um I was rooting for you in your last campaign for sure well thank you look you have been heroic on on the border you’ve been one of the clearest and and best voices in the in the whole country on securing the border and and the absolute crisis we’re facing and in Texas I see it and live it every day um in CO in fact you may recall in the middle of the COVID lockdown I was out walking my dog when the whole world was shut down and we were living in lunatic times and I called you and said “Tucker your nightly monologues are the single best thing on television.” Like like I watched them like like an injection of crack okay I’m mixing my metaphor because you don’t inject crack but but you get what I’m saying try no I mean it was you were standing up and speaking like what the hell are we doing in a way that we desperately desperately needed and so whether it’s securing the border whether it’s the insanity of COVID lockdowns and the vaccine mandates uh whether it is the second amendment or the first amendment you and I agree on a ton of stuff the 20% where we disagree I I do think is meaningful and and it’s mostly in the foreign policy space and and what I would say if you’ll allow me to get a little theoretical and then I’ll I’m happy to get specific yes for a long time people have perceived two different polls of Republican foreign policy there have been interventionists and those have been people like John McCain and and Lindsey Graham George W bush uh and there have been isolationists and then the most prominent of those have been Ron Paul and Rand Paul and and there others and and people perceive those are the two choices you got to be one or the other i’ve always thought both were wrong i I don’t agree with either one um the way I view my own foreign power i’m I’m with you by the way for whatever it’s worth i I agree with you i don’t know who set up that binary but there are lots of choices actually i mean people sort of naturally fall into I think they want to classify people and they’re like “Okay you’re one or the other and you got to be all or nothing.” and and and the interventionists it seems have never seen a country they didn’t want to invade and that doesn’t make any sense to me and the isolationists I think don’t take the threats to America seriously and and I think that’s naive and it doesn’t work and and so my view I I consider myself a third point on the triangle and and what I describe that as is that I am a non-interventionist hawk which which sounds a little weird but but what do I mean by that i mean the central touch point for US foreign policy and for any question of military intervention should be the vital national security interest of the United States how does this make America safer how does this protect Americans if it does we should be strong and actually another way of conceiving what I’m saying I’m speaking theoretically but but Reagan referred to it as peace through strength and and actually I think Donald Trump’s foreign policy is very much what I’m describing a non-interventionist hawk where he understands that and I think this is historically true the best way to avoid war is being strong that weakness and isolationism I think encourages war so going back to regime change where you started in Iran but just to make I I don’t I think I disagree with anything you’ve said so we may not be that far apart really because you said that the single criterion for making decisions about America’s foreign policy is America’s national interest yes that’s it yeah which is also America first that’s another way of putting that as well i think it’s the definition of it it’s hardly breaking news the US dollar has been gravely devalued by I think we are and and from what you’ve said publicly I think on Iran in particular you and I disagree and all right let me contrast it when Obama was president when Obama was president you remember he talked about wanting to have military action against Syria mhm and at the time I tried to keep an open mind to it i said “Okay let me listen to the commander-in-chief describe to me how this is in America’s interest and what your plan is.” and and Bashar Assad was a bad guy he was killing his own citizens and and he had chemical weapons that were very dangerous i could conceive of a commander-in-chief laying out a plan for okay we’re going to go in and say “Grab the chemical weapons and leave.” Like I could see that I if there was a real threat to America and there was a plan to to prevent that I could see supporting that so I wanted to hear what he had to say and I listened both in classified briefings and and public questioning and number one their public defensive it was incoherent so So John Kerry said “We’re going to engage in an unbelievably small strike.” I think that’s a quote i’m like “Okay.” And and to do what at the time there were nine major rebel Islamic groups in Syria i’m like “Okay I agree bashar Assad’s a bad guy you topple him.” And one of the nine other groups takes over seven of them were affiliated with radical Islamic terrorism you had al-Qaeda and al-Nusra i’m like wait how is it better to have lunatics who hate us in charge assad’s a bad guy but I don’t want worse guys in charge obama administration couldn’t give an answer to that and ultimately when you press them John Kerry in particular I pressed and he would say “Well we need to defend international norms.” Like what the hell is an international norm i don’t know what it is but I’m not interested in putting US servicemen and women in harm’s way to defend one amen so I opposed this the Syria attack and and and opposed it vocally and it was interesting rand and I agreed rand’s a friend of mine but we we agreed with that position for different reasons what I was asking is is I think the question we should ask how does this make America safer the Obama administration couldn’t give me an answer so I posed it i think Iran is very different let me ask what you think of how Syria wound up because Bashar Assad now lives in Moscow he was taken out by our allies um and he’s been replaced by a radical Islamist who was affiliated with ISIS so is that a win or no unclear look Syria is a mess so I’ve consistently opposed but we had a secular leader in a religious and ethnically diverse country now we have a religious extremist Islamic religious extremist who’s overseen the purge of of Christians and Alawites is that better that doesn’t seem Well look one of the things you said is you said he was taken out by our allies i don’t think that’s right israel didn’t take Assad out what happened and I’ll tell you what about Turkey turkey didn’t take him out so it was interesting i had a long How did Assad get kicked out um when when Netanyahu was in DC a couple of months ago he and I sat down for a couple of hours he’s a good friend of mine and and we talked actually about Syria it was he made an interesting point that I’ve not heard anywhere else in that he said he believes what toppled Assad was when Israel took out Nazallah nazallah was the head of Hezbollah and they took him out and he and and he made an interesting point they said it’s fascinating how a charismatic leader and and BB said look Nazala was a very effective terrorist leader and when they took him out that power base was supporting Assad and that ultimately in BB’s analysis removed the support for from Assad and and and toppled him but they weren’t trying to take out Assad my view now I don’t know I so you don’t think that and I I don’t it is very confusing and I I don’t know that anyone really knows all the details but you don’t think that Israel or Turkey our NATO ally Turkey played any role in toppling Assad I I don’t know I don’t know that they did look look my understanding of that they clearly took out Nazalla and Hezbollah they’ve decimated Hezbollah but Hezbollah is waging war on them so so decimating Hezbollah was very good for Israel and very good for for America too I mean Hezbollah hated us Um I I would put Assad in the category of an unintended consequence and whether it’s good or bad I don’t know i I think time will tell for the United States yeah for the United States i think time will tell the new leadership there you’re right to be concerned i I I Let me step back and let’s talk regime change generally i I mentioned Syria i I also oppose the Iraq war i think the Iraq war was a serious mistake and and we have a pattern and going back to this binary of the interventionist and and the isolationists the interventionists advocate over and over again there’s a bad guy there’s a dictator who’s who’s doing bad things to his people and they say “Let’s go topple them.” And you have dictators in the Middle East who are killing radical Islamic terrorists we come in and topple them the radical Islamic terrorists take over and they start killing Americans and my view how the heck does that help us like Saddam Hussein was a horrible human being he murdered and tortured people i unequivocally bad guy but it got much worse after we toppled him and you ended up having ISIS rise up i mean that was the cause of ISIS was toppling Saddam Hussein same thing in in in Libya you had Gaddafi another horrible guy that that under Obama we toppled him and you ended up having radical Islamic warlords taking over and and so the and it’s the question I asked in Syria okay well what’s the plan and and and how is this good or bad for the United States and and so I don’t think with Iran I I view Iran as very different from Iraq but up to that point you say we disagree i I don’t hear really anything i’m not quite sure what happened in Syria but I I don’t know so right but other than that I don’t hear anything I disagree with at all yeah sounds like we’re in a complete agreement i wonder though is there a successful regime change that the United States supported that you’re aware of in the last 100 years uh sure uh defeating the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union collapsing winning the Cold War that that was the most consequential step for US national security interests of our lifetimes okay and so you would classify that as a regime change that we affected absolutely okay uh and look you you and I are are in my office we’re sitting uh next to a painting of of Reagan in front of the Brandenburgg Gate and and up top uh are the words tear down this wall uh in German in the style of the graffiti right and I think those are the most important words any leader has said in modern times and and if if you look at how Reagan waged the Cold War and and Reagan is very much my model for how to I actually think how Reagan took on the Soviet Union is exactly how we should take on China now starting from the point look Reagan was not an interventionist in 8 years the biggest country Reagan ever invaded was Grenada he was very reluctant to use US military force he didn’t respond after the 83 barracks bombings you’re right he he he he made the judgment that the risk exceeded the benefits and and that’s a very rational decision to make and and it’s reflected Trump has made those same decisions where he is willing to use military force but but he very much asks okay is this good or bad for America does this endanger US servicemen and women or not and one of the points about the Cold War look nobody in their right mind wanted a shooting war between America and the Soviet Union the two biggest nuclear powers on Earth firing bullets at each other is really unhealthy for human beings same thing is true with China nobody with any sense says “Hey let’s go to war with China.” That that’s really dumb and a whole lot of people could die but the Cold War showed we’ve got lots of tools short of send in the Marines to fight against a regime and one of the most important tools is the bully pulpit and so when I say I support regime change I actually think just simply laying out what the Ayatollah does and so I spend a lot of time I speak to Iranian dissident groups i speak out against human rights abuses i think shining a light on the depravity of leaders is a really powerful tool that America has should it should we limit our activity to that it it depends again the because the US government pays opposition groups militarized opposition groups in Iran to overthrow the government we’ve done that in a lot of different places as you know i’m not I’m not saying it’s bad but that’s very different from what you’re describing and you’re saying we’re making a moral case as we did for seven years with the Soviets our system works yours doesn’t um and I think we made a credible case for that and we beat them over 70 years economically and that was a huge part of it right i I think everyone would agree that was the main part of it we didn’t beat them in Vietnam North Korea the main part of it but it was tied to a military buildup so I think it was two things it was one the clarity so Reagan came in and he described the Soviet Union as an evil empire right and all of the intelligences all the media they’re like “What a horrible thing to say you can’t say that.” Reagan uh went to the United Kingdom and he said “Marxism Leninism will end up on the ash heap of history.” People were horrified they asked him “All right what’s what’s your strategy in the Cold War?” He said “Very simple we win they lose.” And that was all viewed as as sort of a Philistine simplicity and I think it was exactly right and laying that out speaking do you know the backstory behind the the Berlin Wall speech yeah I do yes you probably know Peter Robinson who speech writer yes so three times the State Department deleted those words from that speech and three times Reagan wrote it back and the State Department argued they said “Mr president you can’t say this this is too bicost this is too provocative.” And my favorite they said “This is too unrealistic the Berlin Wall will stand till the end of time and Reagan said “Look this is the whole point of the speech.” And less than three years after Reagan gave that speech the Berlin Wall was torn to the ground and it wasn’t knocked down by American army tanks we didn’t shoot missiles at it it was shining truth and light that tore it down it was also rebuilding the American military it was what was then pjoratively called Star Wars where the Soviet Union their economy couldn’t match our military buildup and it bankrupted them that’s an example of peace through strength i wonder I mean is there anybody who was alive in 1989 who wouldn’t trade that America for the one we live in now there’s not one person I don’t think oh sure uh well but I mean just the basic metrics debt suicide rate life expectancy it was I wonder why after that victory America didn’t thrive in the way that we thought that it would that I thought that it would my family was involved in that i mean I were very focused on it in my house like we won and I I wonder two things why didn’t the United States kind of declare victory and make some sort of uh arrangement with Russia that allowed like mutual prosperity rather than continuing a cold war and second I wonder why the United States didn’t get a lot better like why don’t we have better infrastructure why don’t we have fewer homeless why do we have all these drugs like if we won why does our country look like this i walked across from Union Station this morning as you do I’m sure every day and all these people lying in the street and sleeping outside it’s like what is that we’re sorry to say it but this is not a very safe country walk through Oakland look there’s no doubt there are really dangerous forces in our society some of it is politics and some of it is culture and one of the mistakes people make in politics is thinking everything is politics so the political answer which I happen to believe is is we went much further down the road of liberalism you look at Bill Clinton who inherited the peace dividend of the cold war being over and and moved us more to the left and then Obama accelerated it a lot and so there are lots of I agree bad economic policies but I also think they’re cultural things um you know the the the loss I agree with all of I know what you’re going to say and I agree 100% i bet there’s not one word that I would disagree with all I’m saying is like I think it’s important to step back and ask but I actually think Russia has very little to do with it so well that’s kind of the point that I’m trying to make which is like we’re all sort of focused on beating our adversaries abroad but what is victory worth if our own country becomes what it is now and maybe we’re spending a little too much time focused abroad and not enough time focused on the people sleeping outside Union Station so look I absolutely think we need to focus at home emphatically and we need to focus on prosperity we need to focus on reducing the debt reducing spending empowering people low taxes small businesses American free enterprise it’s the most powerful force for fighting poverty the world has ever seen i’m a thousand% there i also recognize it is a dangerous world and and part of the responsibility of leaders part of President Trump’s responsibility is to keep America safe let’s go back to where we started you’ve been in the district a long time in DC so have I and the city’s way more dangerous and Congress runs this city no no it’s a complete crappole so I’m saying like the d No Iranian’s ever going to kill me but I could get carjacked here and I just don’t understand how the Congress could run this city and focus on the dangers of Iran when the city is like garbage it’s garbage but but Congress doesn’t run the city they We could Congress does run the city it’s in the Constitution it’s in the Constitution but they but they’ve given home rule so it’s a Democrat mayor back you control the Congress i’d vote for it but but but it is a question of math okay but I’m just saying like why how can people ignore it’s like if my own kids are drug addicts but I’m focused on my neighbors kids it’s like I’m neglecting my own kids and there’s a sense in which the Congress is neglecting the country that elected them in favor of this relentless focus on other people’s problems that’s the way it feels as an American look there are lots of problems in America that we need to fix why is is DC a pit because you have a mayor and a Democrat city council that won’t let police officers arrest bad guys and in every city you see across the country whether it’s New York whether it’s Chicago whether it’s LA whether it’s San Francisco if you have Democrats we see the LA riots where they won’t let people be arrested all right then why not work in regime change here why not use the bully what do you think I do every day and you see a Republican senator stand up and say “I just walked to work this morning over people dying of drugs we’re going to shut this place down unless they fix it.” There’s they’re mad about Putin like what did Putin do to Washington nothing look in terms of regime change let’s let’s talk this week the the the the riots in LA i’ve made very clear that the cause of those riots are Gavin Newsome and Karen Bass and when you elect communists who hate America who stop law enforcement from arresting criminals you get what you get on the street amen i agree my in-laws are Californians and and they’re wonderful people that Heidi grew up on the central coast of California and I remember I was texting with with my my mother-in-law and and I think I sent her a video of of criminals going to a store and just looting in California and and her response she said something like “Well this is this is really terrible it’s I I wish we could it’s a shame we can’t do anything about this.” Said “Yes you can go in and arrest them throw their butts in jail put them in handcuffs it sucks.” Exactly and and so we know how to fix these things and and DC is is I think DC voted if I remember right 92% Democrat um Democrat policies don’t work and they destroy every community that they are in charge of they Why don’t Republicans assert their constitutional authority over the city i don’t they control the Congress yes I’d be all for it who’s against it do you think uh Susan Collins is really vocally against it uh so on questions of home rule so for example let’s take an issue you and I care a lot about the COVID lockdowns i had a couple of years ago in the middle of them uh DC was proposing the DC school district was proposing throwing out of school any child that was not vaccinated and at the time if I remember correctly it was something like 40% of the African-American students in DC were not vaccinated so we’re talking about literally throwing out 40% of the kids at public school and so I had a vote on the Senate floor to say look they can’t throw kids out of school for this and we ended up having a big argument and part of the argument was home rule where there was and Susan was the most vocal Republican that’s like no no we have to let DC run and I’m like why constitution gives us the power to do it and it ended up by the way every single Democrat all of them voted in favor of the DC public schools being able to throw out 40% of the black kids from school and they said look you throw a kid out of school you got a 14 15 year old boy you throw him out of school you know what’s going to happen next he’s going to join a gang he’s going to engage in crimes he’s going to engage in drugs he could be dead within 5 years if that kid doesn’t get an education or the Democrats were more than happy to say we don’t care right now our religion is get get the vaccine or or to hell with you but c can you see I mean I again once again I couldn’t agree with you more but can you feel the frustration of people including your voters ever you know every American at the emphasis on foreign countries and the threat we supposedly face a lot of which is fake obviously um over over the kind of slowly unfolding tragedy of what’s happening to our country the the the dollar spent the aid packages to Ukraine to pay the retirement of civil servants in a country that we have nothing to do with the endless support for Israel very expensive when people are literally buying groceries on credit in the United States can you feel like it’s nothing against Ukraine or Israel all right let’s stop you said the support for Israel very expensive how much support do we give to Israel well you tell me you vote for it yeah it’s about three billion a year is the military assistance is that the only assistance yeah we we just have military assistance israel does not have additional assistance there’s there’s an MOU a memorandum of understanding and it’s three billion a year so what is it costing to support the bombing campaign to protect Israel right now um from Iran so I don’t know right now but I’ll tell you this let’s go back to the touchstone on foreign policy American interest our support our military support for Israel is massively in America’s national security and it benefits us enormously well before we can before we can make independent judgments about whether or not that’s true and I’m certainly open to it I think we need to know what it costs so what’s the annual cost of defending Israel do you know three billion a year like that’s the aid but I mean the U the cost of the weapons for example the cost of US personnel there the cost of moving ships to the region which we’re doing right now the cost of moving tankers region all of that do we know what the cost is so look the last week I don’t know and and there’s some lag when the administration under the Constitution the commander-in-chief has control of the armed forces and so President Trump has made some decisions that we’ll know the cost over time but I don’t know the last week that that I I don’t have visibility on that the annual cost is 3 billion that’s that’s it’s a 10-year memorandum of understanding and that’s that’s the principal driver of the cost but let me make a point we get massive benefits from Israel israel shares the MSAD is one of the best intelligence sources on the planet the enemies of Israel the people who hate Israel they all hate us it It’s almost a perfect overlap and so if we tried to recreate if we’re just trying to defend America we tried to recreate the national security benefits of our alliance with Israel it would cost I don’t know 30 billion 300 billion so So can you elaborate i mean again I’m I’m going into this as someone who’s always liked Israel um and still does but I also think at this point given where we are it’s fair to ask rational questions about what the benefits are good um so does Msad share all of its intelligence with us oh probably not but they share a lot um we don’t share all of our intelligence with them but we share a lot it’s a close alliance do they spy domestically in the United States oh they probably do and we do as well and and friends and allies spy on each other and and I assume I assume all of our allies spy on us that that’s okay with you you know what one of the things about being a conservative is that you’re not naive and utopian you you don’t think humans are all part of the reason socialism doesn’t work is is the the the mantra from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs doesn’t work as a conservative I assume people act in their rational self-interest why conservative to pay people to spy on you it’s conservative to recognize that human beings act to their own self-interest and every one of our friends spies on us and I’m not Do you like it that’s my question i’m not asking whether they have motive to do it of course they do i understand that and I not mad at them and you’re an American lawmaker so I just want to know Hold on i want to know your attitude you said that your guiding principle in fact the only principle the only criterion I said guiding the the overwhelming I wouldn’t say only is is it in America’s interest is it in America’s interest for Israel to spy on us including on the president um it is in America’s interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it and you want to want to see the clear but but I just want to stop on the swing for a second that it it takes place as you know um and including on the president of the United States and several presidents and I just want to know if that’s okay and why is it okay wouldn’t an American lawmaker say to a client state you’re not allowed to spy on us i’m sorry i know why you want to i’m not mad at you but you’re not allowed to and I don’t care for it i don’t want to be spied on by you is that It’s kind of weird not to say that but you don’t seem able to say that sure i would say don’t spy on us they’re going to anyway and by the way the Brits are the Canadians are like I don’t think Well I’m not for that at all i think it’s disgusting but we don’t actually pay their you know we’re not their most meaningful sponsor we’re not sort of paying for the operations of the Brit so I got to say and this is it it’s weird we’re talking about isolation it’s the obsession with Israel why is Israel Oh I don’t think I’m obsessed with Israel okay but I think a lot of people are and like the question Israel spies on us well so does every other country why are you mad at Israel i guess oh no no I’m I’m hardly the one who’s I’ve never taken money from the Israel lobby have you taken money from the Israel from Apac so Apac raises a lot of money for me but it’s actually a misnomer because the pe people who raise money are individuals so it’s not the pack itself but they’re individual members who believe in the American Israeli uh friendship a pack of foreign lobby no it’s an American lobby it’s the Apac stands for the America Israeli political action what does it lobby for so to be honest not a whole lot effectively listen I came into to Congress 13 years ago with the stated intention of being the leading defender of Israel in the United States Senate i’ve worked every day to do that apac a lot of times Apac I wish were much more effective like there folks on on the finger swamp of terrified of Apac and Apac i’m not terrified of Apac at all i’m you’re the one who seems a little uncomfortable when I’m asking no not uncomfortable at all i’m just asking what Apac does my understanding having known a lot of people is that it lobbies on behalf of the Israeli government oh okay all the time okay let me go back and give a little history if you want to do a deep dive on Apac we I don’t I want to do a shallow dive that gets No no no i want I want to get to the core question apac is lobbying for a foreign government and I don’t it’s not it’s lobbying for the United States it is lobbying for a strong USIsraeli relationship okay and and so it’s not has nothing to do with the foreign government it it wants America and Israel to be closely allied okay but it’s lobbying on behalf of the interests of another country so that’s not true at all and and if that’s not true no and how much contact do you think Apac leaders have with the government of Israel no idea i imagine some I think the government of Israel is often frustrated with Apac that’s not nearly strong enough do you think there’s any coordination between the government of Israel and APEC do they talk sure if you’re lobbying for more US Mexico trade would you talk to people in the US and Mexico and the government sure like like if So I’m not mad about that there are million countries that lobby Washington i like a lot of those countries including Okay but APEC or Americans hold on there are tons of Americans who lobby on behalf of foreign governments i know them i’m related to some of them i know how it works i’m from here so my question is not is it outrageous that foreign governments lobby the United States they all do okay including Israel my only question is why don’t we admit that is what’s happening you’re denying it but it’s true and why aren’t they saying why aren’t they registered as a foreign lobby because they’re not they’re not a foreign lobby no they’re not and and this is there’s a fever swamp look it’s not a fever swamp these are very reasonable questions and you’ve accused me of being obsessed with Israel which I’m not i actually haven’t i’ve said feverish about it which I’m not at all i’m just I find it it’s a very tender spot when you ask it and I don’t know why so Tucker all right let’s go back i was first elected to the Senate in 2012 i came in in Obama’s second term and I actually saw Apac be badly wounded in a way they never came back from and and the second term is when Obama did the Iran nuclear deal and and the Iran nuclear deal I think was catastrophic and Apac went all in lobbying against it and they failed and and I was the leading opponent of the Iran nuclear deal oh I know they definitely failed yes they failed and what happened the Obama White House told every Democrat when I got here there used to be real bipartisan support for Israel that has largely disappeared and it’s the Obama nuclear deal that caused it because the Obama White House told every Democrat pick you either stand with Israel or you’re a Democrat and you stand with the Obama White House that almost every single Democrat member of Congress said “I’m a Democrat first to hell with Israel.” And then I watched as Apac every one of those Democrats got reelected and Apac did nothing about it and and it dramatically reduced Apac’s influence it would be and and by the way I told Apac I said look the analogy if the NRA was supporting a bunch of politicians and cared about the Second Amendment and you had politicians that vote to confiscate people’s guns and the NRA turned around and raised money for the people who voted to confiscate guns you know what no one would ever care what they said again so you’re making the case that Apac is not as powerful as people say it is and I completely agree with you i’ve I’ve watched that and I’m not I I’m not making the case that Apac is all powerful and they’re running everything and putting Floyd in the water i’m not making that case at all cuz that’s not true i’m only trying to get to the question of what APAC is and I don’t think you’re being straightforward about it apac is lobbying on behalf of the interests of a foreign country and they’re not registered and you’re saying no that’s not true you’re saying that they don’t coordinate with the Israeli government i coordinate they do they talk with them i don’t know what they do i can tell but why don’t you care isn’t it meaningful if a foreign government Hey I talk with with with Israel all the time i’ve talked of course of course countries all the time but the law is and a lot of people have been prosecuted under this law that if you are lobbying on behalf of foreign government you must register that’s it it’s really simple and I don’t know why if I’m working for Malaysia or Qatar or Belgium and I’m working on behalf of its government’s interest through a group of Americans who are representing the friendship between those two nations I have to register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act and if I don’t I can go to jail people have gone to jail including people I know so I don’t understand why we don’t just be honest and say they’re lobbying on behalf of foreign government they’re coordinating with the government you know that that’s true that is not only not true that is false they’re not coordinating with the Isra government do you do do you know how Apac raises money what for for elected officials like what they do like what the actual mechanics is yeah i mean they go to people who are sympathetic to Israel and raise money and then send it to candidates who agree with them so so what they’ll do is so in my last election Apac endorsed me and they’ll host a fundraiser and they’ll host a fundraiser in Dallas or Houston or Atlanta or New York or LA and they’ll do a fundraiser and they’ll get someone who will host it and it’s usually a business owner lawyer doctor someone who host it and you’ll get typically at an APAC fundraiser uh 30 40 50 maybe a 100 people who live in that city right uh who care about a strong US-Israel relationship and and if they have you know 50 people each of them writes a $1,000 check and you raise $50,000 i’ve been to an apex fundraiser i know what it looks like but but that is not and by the way there’s no representative of the Israeli government there you have when you’re in Dallas you’re meeting false and silly conversation i know all this i know all this the question is is are Apex goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government to any extent okay that’s a really simple lobbying on behalf of it’s a simple question is ap are apex goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government and I’m just going to ask you a question straight forwardly and if you say no I think we both know that’s not true are they shaped by is that are they coordinating with the Israeli government are they talking directing them what are you want to talk about far the law on lobbying on behalf of someone it is I hire you and you lobby on behalf of me i direct you does Israel direct APEC no they are not lobbying on behalf of them do they care about them yes but do you think that it’s just interesting because what you’re now describing in a very defensive way I will say is foreign influence over our politics no and you began and it’s so transparently obvious to everybody i don’t know why you would be embarrassed of it you’ve said that you are sincerely for Israel i believe you i don’t think you have some weird agenda you seem to by the way Tucker it’s a very weird thing the obsession with Israel when we’re talking about foreign countries obsession you’re not talking about Chinese you’re not talking about Japanese you’re not talking about the Brits you’re not talking about the French the question what about the Jews what about the Jews i’m an anti-semite now senator you’re asking the question Tucker you’re asking why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy that’s what you just hardly saying that and I have That is exactly what you just said well actually I can speak for myself and tell you what I am saying good on behalf not simply of myself but on of my many Jewish friends who would have the same questions which is to what extent and I it’s interesting you’re trying to derail my questions by calling me an anti-semite which you are i did not of course you are and and rather than be honorable enough to say it right to my face you are in a sleazy feline way implying it or just asking questions about the Jews i’m not asking questions about the Jews i have This is nothing to do with Jews or Judaism it has to do with a foreign government israel controlling our foreign policy that’s not about the Jews you said I’m asking and by the way you’re the one that just called me I think a sleazy feline so let let’s be clear sleazy to imply that I’m an anti-semite which you just did no I just said why is that the only question you’re asking you answer it give me another reason if you’re not an anti-semite give me another reason why the obsession is Israel i I am in no sense obsessed with Israel we are on the brink of war with Iran and so these are valid questions but you’re not if I can finish you asked me why I’m obsessed with Israel 3 minutes after telling me that when you first ran for Congress you elucidated one of your main goals which is to defend Israel and I’m the one who’s obsessed with Israel i don’t see a lawmaker’s job as defending the interest of a foreign government period any government including the ones that my ancestors come from so that’s my position that does not make me an anti-semite and shame on you for suggesting otherwise and I mean that and that’s low and you know it’s low so why don’t you just answer my questions in a straightforward rational way you certainly have the IQ to do it shame on you is is cute by the way Tucker it is it’s not cute i’m offended you’re I’m obsessed with the Jews you just told me you just called me a sleazy feline it is sleazy to imply that I’m an anti-semite for asking questions about how my government is you want to count how many questions you asked about what about the Jews what about Israel what about you never asked about the Jews i I have This has nothing to do with the Jews whatever that means this has to do with a foreign government and once again shame on you for conflating the two they have nothing to do with each other i’m talking about the influence israel and Jews have nothing to do with each other all Jews are an attack on all Jews which I am not nor would I ever be undertaking now I’m not attacking anybody by the way that’s that’s who who Iran wants to kill is all the Jews and all the Americans and I’m totally opposed to that okay but now because except decisions need to be made we can talk about those decisions and I plan to but I just want to get a sense of whether you think having described yourself as an America first person whose only criterion for judgment on foreign policy is America’s national interest to what extent you’re influenced by a foreign government which gives you a lot of money through its lobby and you’re claiming this has nothing to do with the foreign government they’re not coordinating yes they’re spying on us but doesn’t bother you and I’m sort of wondering like what is this this is the one of the weirdest conversations I’ve ever had i’ll tell you what and I’ll answer any question you like but let’s try to you going to call me an anti-semite again or no let’s try to ratchet down the temperature a little bit you’re the one who went to motive i’m asking honest questions i just asking questions yes that’s it that is what I’m doing let’s try to ratchet down the temperature a little bit picture the actually a fun comedy uh about politics and Eddie Murphy in the movie is a con man who gets elected to Congress and he’s literally a con man who the congressman dies he has the same name and so he runs and they get elected and there’s a there’s a scene in the movie where where Eddie Murphy is a freshman member of the of Congress and he’s sitting down with a sleazy lobbyist and uh he’s asking the lobbyist “All right what should my positions be on I think they were talking about power plants and and uh electrical transmission lines and and the lobbyist like well what do you believe?” And Eddie Murphy is the comment said “I don’t care whatever gets me the most money I’ll do whatever gets me the most money.” And the lobbyist says “No no pick a side doesn’t matter what you pick if you pick one side we’ll go shake down everyone who supports that size and they’ll give you money if you pick the other side that’s fine we’ll just go to the other side and shake down that that’s a little bit the way it works and and you often get get leftists in the media who say for example if you support the Second Amendment as you do and I do well you’re just bought bought and paid for by the NRA and that actually is backwards i believe in the Second Amendment because I believe in the Constitution now am I proud that the NRA supports me sure because people who care about the Second Amendment want to support leaders who fight for it but it gets it backward look Apac when I ran for the Senate Apac didn’t support me i supported Israel before they supported me i’m I’m happy to have their support because they share my objective no but you’re missing I’m not suggesting that you’re bought and paid for i’m not saying that I want to go back i want to go back and take the transcript because you just said a minute ago are you I’m slightly paraphrasing but are you are you lobbying for a foreign government because they pay you a lot of money that’s basically what you said so you are suggesting that let me let me just be clear about what I think your views seem totally sincere yes you take money from people who agree with you I believe that i’m only trying to take money from people who disagree with me i’m only trying to get to the question of to what extent is the US government influenced by other governments and it’s a lot it’s hardly just Israel it’s hardly just Israel i don’t think Israel is the main one there are lots of governments china is a massive influence on this city and it’s a huge as you know i couldn’t agree more and there are lots of other the UK which is a truly sinister place in my opinion as a ethnic Brit i can say I think it’s that’s my view you maybe you disagree i think they’re on the wrong path i I I love without their government without even getting into that i’m just saying I don’t think Israel is the only one but it’s the only one where you’re instantly called an anti-semite for asking questions and it’s also the only government that no one will ever criticize and I find criticize Israel every minute of every day like the only government that people will not criticize rashida Talib just tweeted out calling Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal um Talib you said no one will criticize no I’m talking about Republicans that I would vote for including you and I’m saying you know whatever i I don’t even like talking about Israel what I care about I never do because it’s not worth being called anti-semites from APAC recipients but now we are on the verge of joining a war and I just want to be clear about why we’re doing this all right so and and let’s get into Iran momentarily but but you suggested it was a strange thing that I said a minute ago that when I came into the Senate I resolved that I was going to be the leading defender of Israel and what you didn’t ask is why so let me tell you why no you said I was obsessed with Israel and you had just told me that like your driving motive to get to the Senate was to defend Israel i don’t think I’m the one who’s obsessed with Israel okay so Tucker words matter uh-huh the And you know that I said I resolved to be the leading defender of Israel and you said your driving motive the reason you’re in the Senate you want to be the leading defender of Israel i would think if I ran for Senate I’d be like there are people dying of drugs on the street my driving motive is to fight for Texas and America and to fight for jobs and to fight for the Constitution and and you played a very very careful word game of a lie you’re the one who said it not me so you still haven’t asked why but I’m going to tell you why okay and and the reason is twofold number one as a Christian growing up in Sunday school I was taught from the Bible those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed and from my perspective I want to be on the blessing side of things oh the those who bless the government of Israel those who bless Israel is what it says doesn’t say the government of it says the nation of Israel so that’s in the Bible as a Christian I believe that where is that i I can find it to you i I don’t have the the scripture off the tip of my You pull out the phone and use the It’s in Genesis but so you’re quoting a a Bible phrase you don’t have context for it you don’t know where in the Bible it is but that’s like your theology i’m confused what does that even mean Tucker i’m a Christian i want to know what you’re talking about okay where does where does my support for Israel come from number one because biblically we are commanded to support Israel but number two hold on no not hold on you’re a senator and now you’re throwing out theology and I am a Christian i am allowed to weigh in on this we are commanded as Christians to support the government of Israel we are commanded to support Israel and we’re told those who bless Israel will be blessed but what hold on define Israel this is important are you kidding i this this majority Christian country define Israel could Do you not know what Israel is that would be the country you’ve asked like 49 questions about so that’s what Genesis ref that’s what God is talking about the nation of Israel yes and he’s so does that the current borders the current leadership he’s talking about the political entity called Israel he he’s talking about the nation of Israel yeah nations exists and he’s discussing a nation a nation was the people of Israel referring to in Genesis is that the same as the country run by Benjamin Netanyahu right now yes yes it is okay and by the way it’s not run by Benjamin Netanyahu as a dictator it’s it’s a democratic country that elected but he’s the prime minister what but just just like you know America is the country run by Donald Trump no actually the American people elected Donald Trump the same principle this is silly i’m talking about the political entity of modern Israel yes and that is you believe that’s what God was talking about in Genesis i do but but that country has existed since when uh for thousands of years now there was a time when it didn’t exist and then was recreated just over seven years but I’m I’m saying I think most people understand that line in Genesis to refer to the Jewish people God’s chosen people that’s not what it says okay israel but you don’t even know where in the Bible it is so I I don’t I don’t remember the scriptural citation but okay i keep It’s like Genesis 16 or something like that but yes it’s in the earlier part of the book the point is all you keep interrupting me before I finish my important to know what you’re talking about i don’t know what you’re So you’re saying as a Christian if I believe in Jesus I have to support the modern state of Israel no I’m not saying that you I’m explaining for me what my vote motivation is but you Okay so I’m just trying to understand you said God tells you to support the modern state of Israel in the Bible in some place in the Bible that you heard about but you don’t know where it is that’s your theology you’re going back am I a sleazy feline again i I mean if you accuse me of anti-semitism again I will say that but I don’t think you will try to be a little less condescending i’m trying to have a conversing you’re throwing this stuff out and it’s my job to figure out what you’re talking about but I don’t understand but you’re not letting me Okay I’m sorry i want to be polite that is for me a personal motivation but I also what I was about to say I don’t believe my personal faith not everyone who I represent is a Christian it’s not an argument for me to give that that we should do this because of my faith and so as as an elected official I don’t give that as the reason we should support Israel that is a personal motivation for me but but I don’t think it is the reason we should the reason that I am the leading defender of Israel is because Israel is our strongest ally in the Middle East an incredibly troubled part of the world and supporting Israel benefits America and the clearest illustration of that is what is happening right now hold let me just make this point and then and then I’ll just ask what you mean that’s it okay look Iran I think the most acute national security threat facing America right now is the threat of a nuclear Iran i think China is the biggest long-term threat but acute and near-term is a nuclear Iran okay and I think Israel is doing a massive favor to America right now by trying to take out Iran’s nuclear capacity and the reason I view Iran differently we talked before about Iraq i opposed the the Iraq war we talked about Syria i oppose military intervention in Syria the reason for that is those did not pose a threat to the United States i think Iran is markedly different number one the Ayatollah is a religious zealot zealot he he is a lunatic but but a particularly dangerous kind of lunatic because he’s driven by religious fervor when he says death to America and death to Israel I believe him and I think Iran is trying to get a nuclear weapon because there there is a very real possibility they would use a nuclear weapon so you want to ask how does supporting Israel benefit us right now this tiny little country the size of the state of New Jersey is fighting our enemies for us and and taking out their top military leadership and and trying to take out their nuclear capacity that makes America much safer so um the president has said repeatedly Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon and he will do whatever it takes to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon he said that like a hundred times he clearly means it i think he will use force to affect that if he feels he has to i think he’s been really clear about that i don’t know but it seems that way do do you feel that do you think that’s correct um whether he would use force to stop a nuclear weapon I think he he has put that option on the table he certainly suggested I mean I have literally no idea what’s going to happen but just reading his statements um he’s made that really clear so what he has been very clear about and I I spoke with the president on Sunday is he has been very clear to Iran that if they attack US service men and women there will be real consequences and and and I think very serious military way this is a sidebar but I just can’t resist the prime minister of Israel said that Iran tried to assassinate Donald Trump twice yeah I I read your newsletter this morning and and but do you believe that’s true again I think it was sort of a word game what is true is Iran is trying to assassinate Donald J trump and they have hired hitmen now you pointed out No he said that they tried have tried twice to kill him and I I don’t know that I don’t have any evidence that’s true but I sort of wonder if that is true why aren’t we at war with them already okay and I I read your newsletter this morning and I thought it was it was playing word games to to draw a political point how’s that a word game it’s my president and it’s Can I tell you yeah please okay you rightly pointed out there’s no evidence that this clown in Butler Pennsylvania who shot the president was working for the Iranians i don’t think he was there’s no evidence of that um although I would like to know more about who he was and what’s going on but but I don’t find it plausible that he was working for the Iranians so was that caused by the Iranians no but what is true and what your newsletter didn’t acknowledge is it true or false that Iran is currently trying to murder Donald J trump and has paid hitmen to do so well that’s that’s the question and I don’t know the Butler Pennsylvania thing butler Pennsylvania just put that aside i don’t know so So misspoke Poke when he said those two assassinations were because of Iran but what he was saying that is right is they’re actively trying to murder Donald J trump is there Okay so you’re aware of a plot to kill Trump yes that Iran is paying for and by the way when when uh it it has been over the last I’d say 18 months to two years in the United States in the United States yes they they they and and let me put out has anyone been arrested uh for the Trump attempted assassination no but they are also actively paying Iranian hitman to murder Mike Pompeo when he was President Trump’s first secretary of state the first term rather uh John Bolton when John Bolton was national security adviser to President Trump uh and a guy named Brian Hook who was assistant secretary of state right during the Biden administ what do you mean there when no one has been arrested for these assassination attempts on Trump um yes they’ve hired hitman how do we know that uh all right let me let me break it down people have been arrested so the reason I brought up Pompeo Bolton Hook who are under active assassination attempts because of their service of the first Trump administration under the Biden well they say that i’ve never seen any evidence of it can I give you the evidence well let’s just stick with Trump no no no because these are interrelated so so let me make a bloody point under the Biden administration the State Department was spending $2 million a month providing security for Pompeo Bolton and Hook and they did arrest Iranian hitmen okay at John Bolton’s apartment complex who rented I think the apartment next to him and were actively trying to assassinate him and they went and arrested them so yes they caught Iranian hitman now it so happens Iran’s not very good at it uh and so they but they are actively trying and in fact Trump he’s the president if there’s an applause to kill Trump by the Iranians okay so you dispute that the Iranians are trying to kill Trump i of course I mean that’s the most important question the prime minister of Israel just said there have been two assassination attempts against Donald Trump by the Iranians and I think it’s a very fair question maybe you disagree to ask what are you talking about okay and and and I agree with you that he misspoke so there weren’t those two attempts there were two attempts but the the clown in Butler Pennsylvania and the other guy on the golf course were not connected with the Iranians that’s the part that that he misspoke but by the way when you speak all the time occasion what he said that was accurate is that Iran is actively trying to murder Donald J trump and his paid hitman h Okay but Right okay that’s it with the with the two i understand i understand but I just want to pull that thread because it’s so important i voted for Donald Trump i campaigned for Donald Trump he’s our president and we’re on the cusp of a war so if Iran if there’s evidence that Iran paid hitmen to kill Donald Trump and is currently doing that where is that like what are you even talking i’ve never heard that before you’ve Okay where is the evidence who are these people why haven’t they been arrested why are we not at war with Iran that’s a great question to ask how do you know that that’s true we know that it’s true because we have been told that by the military and our intelligence community for the last two years we meaning who congress has and the public i mean we had multiple testimonies i can send you uh testimony do we know the names of the people or where this happened or what they tried to do to kill Trump we do not We have not apprehended an Iranian hitman trying to kill him we know that Iran is trying to do so in the United States yes and and by the way like Iran just seems like a huge headline and you’re acting like everyone knows this i didn’t know that iran put out a whole video about murdering Trump right but I’ve never heard evidence that there are hitmen in the United States i mean trying to kill Trump right now we should like have a nationwide drag net on this and we should attack Iran immediately if that’s true don’t you think no uh if they’re trying to assassinate our president they have been for 2 years war with them well we are trying to Why don’t we just nuke Tyrron if they’re trying to murder our president there’s nothing that you could do that would be worse for the United States than murdering Trump and I just don’t understand why you’re not calling for the use of nuclear weapons against the ayatollah right now i’m serious if they’re if you really believe they’re trying to murder of nuclear weapons part of the problem of so you don’t seem to take the allegations seriously i do if you believe they’re trying to murder Trump we need to stop what we’re doing and punish them c can I ask something and and I mean this sincerely so all right 20 years ago you were I think it’s fair to say in the interventionist world you were a vocal you were a vocal defender of the Iraq war i was a promoter of the Iraq war and you now and I dis look I think you think you were mistaken i think you were mistaken that’s okay look people change and learn and that’s that’s part of the journey of being human your views have moved though in my view they gone way too far the other end and and and so I’m really confused i’m saying hold on this is one of the weirdest conversations I’ve ever had i’m saying if it’s true that Iran is trying to murder Trump we need to move militarily against Iran immediately that’s not isolationism that’s the most that’s a call to violence which I am calling for if we believe that Iran is trying to murder our president we need to strike Iran but isolation say things like “Well then just nuke them,” which is what you just said which is kind of a weird because I’m upset because I’m taking you seriously you don’t take your own statements serious i take my statements very seriously so I’ve asked you where’s the evidence this is true and you said “Well they’re trying to assassinate Brian Hook or something.” which I’m against by the way i’m against hurting any American period no matter so you dispute that they’re trying to murder Bolton i’m not disputing arrested the hitman with B i’m not I don’t know why that’s even relevant i’m asking about the president of the United States wait it it’s not relevant that Iran hired hitmen to murder cabinet members in Trump’s administration that doesn’t go to How is it that they’re willing to spend money to do opposed to that it’s awful i am against killing anybody actually and especially foreign government okay i’m asking about your allegation and the prime minister of Israel’s allegation that that Iran is trying to kill killing terrorists is a good thing killing people who are trying to murder Americans is a good thing because if you’re America first you want to protect America and so taking out killing Osama bin Laden was a fantastic but you don’t really believe that they’re trying to murder Trump or they do yes I do then why aren’t you calling for military action against Iran right now because they’re not very effective in terms of hitmen their hitmen are not very effective i do think so they’re hitmen but not the bad kind the efficient kind they’re a weak country who is on its knees and I think we need to Then why are we so afraid of them why are they the biggest threat if they’re a weak country that’s on its knees because they’re trying I’m trying to keep track they’re trying to develop be a little less snarky i know you’re right that is a problem that I have i’m sorry they’re trying to develop nuclear weapons they are close to developing nuclear weapons and even a weak comp country with a nuclear weapon look I believe there is a very real possibility if the Ayatollah develops a nuclear weapon that he would detonate it either in Tel Aviv or New York or Los Angeles and that would be utterly catastrophic and I don’t know what the chances are of that let me compare and contrast Iran to North Korea wait can I just ask one last question about trying to kill the president you sincerely believe you promise that right now the Iranian government is trying to murder our president you sincerely believe right now absolutely and yet you were not calling for military action against the government that’s trying to murder our president can you explain that uh I don’t think they’re very effective i do think we should by the way America is You’re willing to take that risk i think we should protect the president and we should take out our enemies israel is doing that right now but aren’t they why would we outsource by the question was for regime change that’s a pretty good example of why I’m for regime change okay so you’re saying we should just go in and take out the government of Iran why would we outsource it to Israel if they’re trying to murder a president okay you you sound like the isolationist what I’m saying on any military judgment is there needs to be a costbenefit analysis of what are the risks versus what are the what are the uh what are the benefits in this instance i think it is enormously in America’s interest to do what Israel is doing right now take out Iran’s senior military leadership and take out their nuclear capacity that is benefiting America and it is a good riskreward i would oppose invading Iran and putting boots on the ground to topple the government uh if the risk got severe enough I would support that but I think the relative risk is not severe enough to justify that step at this time what I would absolutely oppose under any circumstances is invading Iran and then staying and trying to turn them into a democracy and part of where Iraq really went off off the rails is not only did we topple someone who was fighting radical Islamic terrorists who was a bad guy but then we tried the vision of interventionists it actually overlaps with the vision of a lot of Democrats let’s go promote democracy in the world and it is our military’s job to kill the bad guys to defend America it’s not their job to defend international norms it’s not their job so I have zero desire for the US military to turn Iran into Switzerland look would it be nice if they suddenly became Switzerland sure if I could wave a magic wand great but I’m not going to send your kids or my kids to be in front of guns to go make that happen well bless you for that i I think that’s a that is the lesson that I learned from Iraq i promoted that war apparently unlike you um I was dumber and and I think that you just articulated the main lesson of it which is it’s hard to do that and we’re not good at it but but I will and so we are agreeing on that i will say as a corently agreeing as a corollary that doesn’t mean that that horrible evil dictators are okay and going back to Reagan and the Cold War we have lots of weapons i I am happy to highlight the brutality the oppression the human rights abuses of regimes even though I don’t want to invade them because I think the bully pulpit of American leadership is really powerful and and I think dictatorships are terrified so I’ve spent 13 years in the Senate one of the things I do frequently is highlight dissident in Iran in North Korea in China in Venezuela people are being tortured uh uh Miriam Ibrahim in in Sudan who who was sentenced to a hundred lashes and then to be killed for the crime of being a Christian and I repeatedly went to the Senate floor and shined a light on the government of Sudan it was corrupt it was evil i practically begged Barack Obama say her name ultimately I felt that way about the J6 prisoners look yes and and we look there is power to speaking out and ultimately the intern Obama never did say her name he would not say her name ultimately there was enough international condemnation the government of Sudan let her go and so she was not executed and and I actually I I met her so she had a 2-year-old son Martin and she gave birth to a little girl named Maya and she was in leg irons in prison waiting for the death sentence they were not going to kill her until she gave birth and they told her “We will not kill you if you will renounce Jesus.” And she refused and And I met her she was in DC speaking at a conference after she was released obviously and And I as she’s she’s a a a tiny woman very small woman i asked her I said “When you were in that prison cell with with your kids how did you have the strength not to just give into despair i mean that I you know I’ve never been threatened with with murder unless I renounce my faith and she just said to me with with a real peacefulness she said Jesus was with me and it I mean it thankfully you and I have not faced that circumstance but I do think there is a responsibility there’s still time there is and I hope we don’t and actually I I’ll use another example john McCain who you and I disagreed with on a lot of issues i respected and admired him for his service and time as a prisoner of war i I think his policies I disagreed with vehemently and fought against them but the man fought for America and he was thrown in prison and he was tortured uh by by the by Vietnam and he was given the opportunity to be released early uh and he turned it down because he thought it would be dishonorable to lead before his fellow servicemen and women and when I first got here there were no women there but Okay man you’re right uh when I first got here McCain hated my guts and and and he actually referred to to me and and Rand as Wacko Birds i remember uh I have up on the shelf I have a baseball cap that a grassroots supporter gave me with a picture of Daffy Duck and labeled Wacko Birds which I liked and and laughed when but when he did that I went to the Senate floor and I gave a speech praising John McCain and it was the day he had like attacked me publicly and it happened to be it was the 40th anniversary of his release from the Hanoi Hilton and I was consciously I just talked about what a privilege it is to serve with someone who suffered for his country who served and I didn’t get into where we disagreed on policy on that speech i just said you know look the man is an American hero and I’m I’m proud to serve with him but that was meant to be a statement also that if you attack me I’m going to praise you not for things that are not praiseworthy i if I disagree with you I will not be shy about saying it but for things that are praiseworthy i remember that it was 2013 um and I felt the same way i went to his cell at the Henry Hilton and I Oh wow i agree i I agree with you about McCain um I just want to end by asking you specifically about what’s going to happen next in Iran and what should happen next so you’ve called for regime change you said you don’t favor the US military participating in any kind of regime change you said you don’t think and bless you for saying this that the US military should try and turn it into Belgium thank God um but there is a third option where it turns into Syria where it’s this open wound and it causes massive migration and further destroys Europe as Syria has um and that’s a huge cost and where lots of people die and religious minorities get murdered in Syria again are you worried about that sure and and listen that lots of bad things can happen but going back to what we talked about the principle of defending America i agree with President Trump that Iran with a nuclear weapon is an unacceptable risk to America and we need to stop it i agree with President Trump and and I’ll I’ll make a point but he’s not for regime change he’s not so so he and I disagree look I think he thinks it would be better he has not said he’s for it um and you know what look it is consequential when the president of the United States says “I’m for regime change.” So I understand why he hasn’t uh what he has said is he’s drawn a red line and said “Iran will not have a nuclear weapon.” And and the only acceptable outcome is complete dismantlement they have centrifuges they’re they’re enriching uranium right now they’re trying to develop a nuclear weapon he said they they they must have complete dismantlement i led 52 senators Republican senators in a letter where we said “We agree with President Trump that’s the red line complete dismantlement.” Uh I agree with President Trump i agree with him supporting Israel taking out Iran’s military leadership taking out their nuclear capability and I’ll point out look if you look the first term I am hardpressed to think of a single foreign policy decision Donald Trump made the first term that I disagree with and and that’s not entirely accidental because I spent a lot of time the first term in the Oval Office with him and what happened in the first term often is you would have in the administration you had interventionist in the administration you had isolationist and they disagreed they would fight within the administration and often what it would give is an opportunity for me to come in and say “Hey there’s a middle path here that President Trump agreed with frequently and and it’s worth noting in the first term he most assuredly was not an isolationist look he took out General Solommani which I emphatically agree with and in fact I introduced a resolution that we voted on the Senate floor commending him for taking out General Silmani who was the leader of the IRGC and who was responsible for killing over 600 American servicemen and women uh when Trump came in ISIS had a caliphate that had grown up under Obama that was about the size of the state of Indiana and Trump came in and utterly decimated them he killed the terrorists took away their caliphate and defeated them and he also took out Baghdaddy the head of ISIS i mean those are not the actions of an isolationist but at the same time I don’t even know what isolationist it’s just a slur designed to control i mean I don’t I’ve never been an isolationist i don’t even know what that means okay rand Paul is my colleague rand is an isolationist and Tucker you’ve become one and I don’t mean it as a slur you consistently say you have said actually I want to I want to read from your newsletter because if you ask what an isolationist is your newsletter a couple of days ago you wrote um Iran cannot have a nuclear bomb and we are hoping to get back to the negotiating table we will see there are several people in leadership in Iran that will not be coming back Trump said following the strikes right it’s worth taking a step back and wondering how any of this helps the United States we can’t think of a single way okay that to me is the essence of isolationism and let me just ask you when when the Ayatollah chants death to America I believe him do do you not believe him do do you think he doesn’t mean it when he says death to America i think he hates America for sure and I’m opposed to that and do you think he’s willing to act on it it’s not just hate America he also is leading a country and trying to under certain circumstances for sure so the question is do you act in a way that makes that more or less likely and that’s a that’s a tough call it’s something that you can debate one of the ways you shut down debate is by calling people names like isolationist pretending they’re like pro-Nazi or something or as you did claiming I’m an anti-semite that’s not a way to get to a solution or have a rational conversation that’s a way to make people be quiet and I I’m against that and I think Don’t like the label isolationist how would you look look Rand and I serve with Rand rand is a friend of mine but Rand opposes every military action in every circumstance don’t oppose every milit this whole thing is infantile and you know that it is it’s a way it’s a way to call people so which of Trump’s military actions do you support if you disagree with them all give me another name if you don’t like that I’m not trying to have you be quiet we we’ve been talking an hour and a half i’m asking if you don’t like the name isolationist what would you how would you describe it i would I would describe myself in the same way you falsely described yourself when this conversation What did I say false you said that the only thing that matters in a foreign policy decision is whether it helps the United States i didn’t say the only i said the predominant that’s what I understood okay so let me revise what you said and apply it to myself and say the only thing that matters is whether or not it serves the United States and I feel very stung by what happened in Iraq if I’m being honest pos possibly because unlike you I guess I supported it and I saw us get drawn into it in a way that nobody anticipated and I saw the cost just a $3 trillion and the cost on so many levels to the United States was just so profound and I it was gosh it reminds me of Kaiser Wilhelm in 1914 saying my men will be back by the time the leaves turn and of course that destroyed destroyed Christian Europe so it’s like you don’t really know where these things are going once the shooting starts that’s my only point and calling people names anti-semite isolationist to get them to stop talking is not the way to serve your country that’s all I’m saying so I I’m trying to have a a real and serious conversation and look a lot of this has been contentious i I wish it had not because as we started out by saying you and I agree vehemently on 80% of the issues uh this discussion is focused on on the 20% where we don’t um you know I I will say look on Iraq you look at the 2016 presidential campaign where you had 17 Republicans running if you set Rand aside uh and his views are are on one side there were only two candidates on that stage that opposed the Iraq war me and Donald Trump were the only two everyone else thought the Iraq war was a a great thing i think it was a disaster so you and I agree on that as well in my view you went I think your foreign policy has gone too far i mean let me ask you is there a military action Trump has undertaken that you agree with because I I’ve not heard anything a military look I I would say it’s really simple i believe in self-defense it’s why I keep firearms at home i think it’s morally justified to defend yourself your family your property your nation and so to the extent that you can deter a threat through violence violence always being the least appealing choice violence always being if I can finish always being a tragedy I think you can justify the use of violence in self-defense that that is my personal view and that applies to me and to the country that I live in those are my views that’s not an isolationist view it’s not an anti-Israel view it’s not an anti-Semitic view with apologies um it is I think a pretty common sense view but my problem is that lawmakers in Washington are light on detail with these things and they speak as you do entirely in moral terms these people are bad these people are I’m not speaking entirely in moral terms i’m not getting interested in killing bad guys i’m interested in killing people who are trying to kill us if we had different morality are you are you now because you told me that the government of Iran is presently trying to assassinate Donald Trump and that is undisputed there’s literally nobody who disputes that then why don’t you support military action right now against Iran we are engaged in military action right now why don’t you why don’t you support offensive military action we’re bombing the crap out of them israel is and we’re supporting them israel is so why shouldn’t the US military defend its own president i don’t understand that uh look and it goes back to because you don’t really believe it’s true that’s why everyone Okay nobody disputes it tucker did did you did we land on the moon what other conspiracies do you not believe was 91 an inside job i mean like what so where I’ve asked you the names of these people i’ve asked I don’t know the names of the Iranian hitman i know it because the US military and the intelligence uh agencies have testified before Congress repeated that Iran is trying to murder Donald Trump and has hired hitman do I know the name of the hitman no i’m sorry and I don’t think we do either because we would apprehend them if we knew their names why don’t you take it seriously enough to support killing the Ayatollah in response to protect our president but you don’t i This doesn’t make even make any sense and you’re calling me an isolationist if I believed that that was true I would support military action against the government of Iran okay that’s interesting because there is literally you can’t kill our president all right out of 535 members of Congress I am not aware of one who disputes that Iran is trying to murder Donald J trump that’s not even the looneyest Democrat doesn’t dispute that so So I I I don’t You’re saying if if if you believed what what is I think a fact that they are trying to You think it’s a fact what is the fact exactly where they’ve hired in the United States americans yeah he’s not in Iran so they haven’t hired Hitman but are they the Hitman American i don’t know oh okay i’m telling you what and and by the way I’m I’m not the CIA i’m not I’m not the Department of Defense i’m telling you what they have told us i’m not disputing it i’m merely saying we are i’m not I’m saying the logic train has a massive hole in it if you believe that’s true then you should by definition support killing the people trying to kill our president but you don’t support that so I’m wondering what’s going on here tucker you took offense to the word isolationist and I I genuinely don’t mean it as a pjorative i disagree with it but if you don’t like that term I don’t know how else to describe what is a coherent foreign policy that says we’re surrounded by two giant nations by the way isolationism has long been a a school of self-defense i I’m not into the slurs the anti-semite stuff i I I just don’t like that i I’m telling you what I believe so but is there a single military action Trump took that you agree with so do you agree with taking out General Solommani oh I don’t know i It turned out better than I thought i guess I mean you said at the time it would like lead us to World War II i thought I was worried about it i’ve seen that well but but that proved not the case i was wrong um as I have been many times did you agree with taking out the ISIS caliphate but my Well if we took out the ISIS caliphate why are they running Syria right now and you’re for that why is that what do you mean i didn’t say I’m for that you don’t have seem to have a problem with it but ISIS is now running Syria you’re like we’ll see no I I look I mean I know why by the way push Assad assad toppled it’s hilarious you know why is bad but no isis runs Syria but that’s that’s fine we’ll just kind of wait and see on on ISIS not a big deal you know not a big deal they’re trying to kill hold on a second i’m going to get back you know why I don’t care and and and why and you do your like trademark smirky laugh i know why you don’t care talking about what why don’t I care i don’t know why you tell me because you think it’s okay because they’re not making angry noises or something but by your own standards their ISIS is so immoral that they must die but now they’re running Syria and you don’t think that we should take military action against the government of Syria because why they’re ISIS what I said is I don’t know how good or bad it’ll be look I wasn’t pushing Assad out he fell he fell on his own in part because he was heavily supported by Hezbollah and and when Israel took out the Hezbollah leadership he lost his basis but the current ISIS leadership you don’t think is bad you can’t say it’s terrible that ISIS runs a country i I am concerned about it concerned aren’t you horrified i want to see what they do but you got a wait and see attitude on ISIS now on the government of Syria they are not actively that I am aware of trying to murder Americans and and that’s a real dividing line are you trying to murder Americans or not i’m just saying it’s a little weird that we wag this war against ISIS and now they’re running a country in the Mediterranean i think that people would be very very upset about that that you don’t see by the way did you did you agree with Trump taking out Albaghdaddy the head of ISIS i’m totally opposed to ISIS and what I care about is results actually and if taking out the head of ISIS ends ISIS I guess I’m for it but now ISIS runs Syria but I’m wondering how I mean my point is word at the time i mean I’ve taken so many different positions over the years some of which have been wrong i really do my best to be honest and correct if there are and admit that I was wrong i’m not one of these people who’s like I’ve always been consistent no my views change all the time because the facts change all the time you’re not going to get consistency from me you’re only going to get sincerity well well I look I will say this and and look I believe you’re sincere yeah but I’m not God i’m just some guy watching trying to figure out the right thing for America and and I think because you believe you were mistaken and I agree previously I think you’ve overcorrected overcorrected i’m worried about turning this mess in Iran into a much larger mess that’s the concern by the way that’s a reasonable worry look I know it’s reasonable and I know you’ve been like you’re like ready to call me all these names for asking you’re just asking questions yes I am so here’s my question to you if the Ayatollah is killed in Iran and he very well could if there’s a war so I have just read in the paper this morning that Israel tried to take him out twice and Trump told them not to i have read that i don’t have independent confirmation one way or the other you think that they should take him out so I actually talked about it as you know I do a podcast every week Verdict with Ted Cruz and I actually talked about it in the latest podcast and I said “Look I’ve seen the reporting that says that Trump asked them not to take out the Ayatollah.” And what I said the podcast is I think it’s reasonable for them to decide not to try to take him out what they’ve done is targeted just about the entire top level of the military the people that actually conduct the war um I I can see an argument that taking out both the head of state and a religious leader could make him a martyr and and could cause more problems than it’s worth and by the way if you take out the Ayatollah I don’t know that the next guy isn’t just as bad and and so I am what happens to the country i I don’t know but you mentioned before I want to go back to this she said something like uh you like most other politicians are are engaged in in moral terms and let me be clear I am talking about national interest i am talking about protecting America so there are bad guys on planet Earth that I don’t think we should take out even though they’re bad guys i’ll call them bad guys but but I’m not willing to use US military force to take them out in this instance what Israel is doing is taking out their capacity to build nuclear weapons why because they judge the the risk is too high if they’ve got nuclear weapons i understand that i I mean I understand that i think it’s in progress i think it’ll probably be achieved probably with US military support who knows but the president has said he’s for that and by the way where the military support is most needed is Forau which is the under it’s a bunker that’s built under a mountain right and Israel’s taken out most of the rest like Natans which is their big enrichment site they bomb the hell out of it fort was deliberately built deep into a mountain so that Israel couldn’t take it out and and there’s an active discussion because the US has bunker buster bombs that are big enough to take out Ford 30,000b and Israel doesn’t so So the one military piece nor the aircraft to fly them to but but here’s I guess what bothers me is that I said two weeks ago the real goal here is regime change in Iran it’s not I don’t think that’s Trump’s goal it’s your goal it’s Israel’s goal i’m not attacking anyone i’m just saying it’s important to be honest and not lie and not attack people for telling the truth so I believe I’ve been assiduously honest in this but but words matter you said the real goal here is regime change and it’s your goal and I want to be clear well you said it was your goal i I want to be clear because words matter do I support regime change and would I like a government that doesn’t hate America and isn’t trying to kill us in Iran yes that’s a good outcome is that the objective of these military strikes i don’t think necessarily i I don’t know if it’s Israel’s it’s not my objective my objective is the US if Israel decides we’re going to decapitate the government and try to ferment an uprising against it should the United States participate in that operation in any way look I I have not called for killing the Ayatollah and and there is nations in war generally refrain from attacking and killing heads of state now the Ayatollah doesn’t he’s trying to kill Trump we talked about that but we shouldn’t punish him for it look there has been a longstanding nations in war have refrained from from killing heads of state i have not publicly called for killing the Ayatollah i’ve called for is doing whatever is necessary to stop him from getting nuclear weapons in the first Trump term what that meant was maximum pressure so in the first Trump term I spent a lot of time urging the president to withdraw from the disastrous Iranian nuclear deal that Obama had president Trump agreed with me he did that and then I urged him to end the oil waiverss and to sanction the hell out of the country and it ended up crippling their economy so so Iran at the time was selling 2 million barrels of oil a day 1 million barrels I’m sorry 1 million barrels of oil a day when President Trump ended the oil waiverss it cut their sales to 300,000 barrels a day at the end of the Trump term the Iranian economy was in shambles they had massive inflation i think the regime was teetering i think it might have fallen i would use economic sanctions and I would use moral persuasion to try to effectuate if you topple Okay so you topple the regime and by whatever means what happens then how many people live in Iran by the way i I don’t know the population at all no I don’t know the population you don’t know the population of the country you seek to topple i How many people living around 92 million okay yeah i I How could you not know that i I don’t sit around memorizing population tables well it’s kind of relevant because you’re calling for the overthrow of the government why is it relevant whether it’s 90 million or 80 million or 100 million why is that because if you don’t know anything about the country I didn’t say I don’t know anything about the country okay what’s the ethnic mix of Iran they are Persians and predominantly Shia okay this is not even you don’t know anything about Iran so I’m not the the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran you’re a senator who’s calling the government you’re the one who know anything about the country no you don’t know anything about the country you’re the one who claims they’re not trying to murder Donald Trump you’re the one who who can’t figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Solommani and you said it was bad you believe they’re trying to murder Trump yes I do you’re not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation and if you really believe they’re carrying out military strikes today you said Israel was right with our help i said we Israel is leading them but we’re supporting them well this you’re breaking news here because the US government last night denied the National Security Council spokesman Alex Feifer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel’s behalf in any offensive capacity we’re not bombing them israel’s bombing them you just said we were we are supporting Israel mistakes you’re a senator if you’re saying the United States government is now we’re with Iran right now people are listening hey we are not bombing them oh okay israel is bombing them and hey why do you do to the snide oh okay what do you mean because it’s this is super high stakes stuff it’s this is a huge country that borders a lot of other important countries a lot of world’s energy comes from there let me don’t want another disaster you don’t want the Ayatollah refers to Israel as the little Satan and America as the great Satan do you believe him when he says it’s the great Satan you believe of course I believe do you think if the Ayatollah could murder both of us right now that he would i do i believe him okay i I assume no good faith on the part of the Ayatollah and if your implication is like I’m pro Ayatollah or something no no no it’s not good faith it’s that I’m just saying you’re you’re a lawmaker you’re a powerful person in Washington this is the most powerful country in the world if you’re calling for toppling in government it’s incumbent on you to know something about the country and to think through the consequences of that and you haven’t and you don’t and I’m saying that’s reckless i’m sorry okay you are you engage in reckless rhetoric with no facts and to be clear I’m not calling for the overthrow of government you put out a newsletter attacking Donald Trump and calling him complicit Donald Trump yes you have and and and by the way campaigned for Donald Trump this is like after anti-semitism this is the last refuge you’re an anti-semit you hate Trump i love Trump i I will read you put out a whole newsletter saying Trump has abandoned America first and here’s what Trump said in response well considering that I’m the one that developed America first and considering that the term wasn’t used until I came along I’m think I’m the one who decides that for those people who say they want peace you can’t have peace if Iran has a nuclear weapon so for all of those wonderful people who don’t want to do anything about Iran having a nuclear weapon that’s not peace that was directed at you man this is You got me busted no I’m just saying look I’m my views look I I like Trump i campaigned for Trump i know Trump i talked to him last night i’m not against Trump and you know that i think you’re against his foreign policy i think that we should be very careful about entering into more foreign wars that don’t help us when our country is dying when you say don’t dying look yes focus on our country i’m all for it but but the the the naive You don’t even know how much money this costs you don’t know anything about the country whose government you want to throw overthrow and you’re calling me reckless i want to stop a lunatic who wants to murder us from getting nuclear weapons that could kill millions of Americans you say I can’t see how that benefits America anyway that is bizarre and by the way isolationism your foreign policy is the foreign policy of Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama and it doesn’t work yeah I’m a big leftist this is so silly and now I’m Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama okay let me just say one last thing so how is your foreign policy different from Jimmy Carter’s seriously please but may I ask that question seriously i don’t even know what you’re talking about i I Jimmy Carter so what century is this i am the product of the last 25 years watching carefully being involved in the periphery and I see an unending string of foreign policy disasters that have impoverished and hurt our country unending string an unending string they would include Afghanistan Iraq Libya Syria and our inability to stop the Houthies by the way in Yemen which exposes us as weak and I grieve over that so these are failures you helped preside over some of them as a member of the Senate what What failures foreign policy failures have I presided over uh well we were unable to beat Russia in the war that you supported against Russia you you’ve been spending the last 3 years telling us that Vladimir Putin is evil and we’re going to beat him with other people’s children and a million of those kids are now dead you’ve never apologized for that that was a false by the way by the way look the level of number of falsehoods you you lay out just in one statement are are rather You haven’t supported the war against Russia uh are are rather stunning so the war against Russia was caused which I have explained in great detail by Joe Biden’s weakness but you supported the war no if you want to talk we talk Russia and Ukraine i’m happy to talk about it i do you think that’s been a success no it’s been an absolute disaster okay but you supported it shouldn’t you apologize no you should apologize i’m not I’m not going to engage in in the demanding of apologizing so I’m going to I’m like that’s my point is all no one ever says I’m sorry or do you just throw out like you if you want to talk we can talk okay i I I do I want to know why that seems like a true disaster for the United States you have supported it do you believe Joe Biden’s weakness caused the war in Ukraine i think Joe Biden’s aggression caused it his aggression what aggression he demanded that Ukraine join NATO how does that help the United States uh it would is a terrible idea and I have vigorously opposed Ukraine joining NATO okay so that’s what caused the war no it’s not do you want to know what caused the war look you do the dismissive you’re not actually interested in facts you’re like okay okay tell me it seems super OP you’re absolutely right and I’m sorry that is a tick of mine that is wrong and I mean this with sincerity i’m sorry to do that to you i just think it seems so obvious that sending Kla Harris to the NATO security conference to say you’re going to join NATO is what triggered the invasion days later okay so can I This will take a few minutes to lay out because it’s complicated but I think the facts matter i think two things caused the war in Ukraine number one I think Biden’s incredible weakness and the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan now I believe we need to leave Afghanistan but not with the incompetence that involved that led to 13 servicemen and women being murdered by terrorists there the way Biden did that was disastrous and I think our enemies looked to the commander-in-chief and said “This this president is weak.” And when when that that withdrawal was so disastrous I said publicly at the time the chances of Putin invading Ukraine have just risen 10fold right but secondly and and and this is critically important i agree that was awful the withdrawal and and it was a major cause of our enemies all said “Hey this president is weak.” And so it invited and by the way look I despise war and and I think weakness and isolationism produces war because it it invites aggression from our bad guys it’s why I agree with Ronald Reagan’s peace through strength the best way you avoid war is being strong enough that your enemies don’t want to mess with you let’s get back to Ukraine and Russia look Putin didn’t wake up two years ago and decided he wanted to invade Ukraine he’s wanted to invade Ukraine for decades putin has referred to the collapse of the Soviet Union as quote the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century and Putin has long been explicit his desire is to reassemble the old Soviet Union and in fact reassemble uh the the the Russian Empire that was even bigger than that if you want to reassemble the Soviet Union the natural place to start is is Ukraine do do you really believe that Putin has territorial designs on Eastern Europe yes what countries uh he has said that you can go and read his hold on i I don’t want to lose the narrative of what happened so I we can go back and do that but I I don’t want to lose telling the story first so let me let me explain this and then if you want to go back we can take all sorts of digressions but just give me a couple of minutes to to lay out the facts of what happened he has wanted to invade Ukraine a long time and he’s done it before in 2014 he invaded Ukraine invaded Crimea when Barack Obama was president he invaded the southern portion he did not invade the rest of the country why and the reason is the principal source of revenue for Russia is oil and gas and the natural gas pipelines run right through the country of Ukraine and he didn’t want to jeopardize his ability to get gas to Europe right so in 2015 Putin started a project called Nordstream 2 did anything happen in 2014 in terms of what wasn’t there a coup in Ukraine run by the Obama administration let me finish telling I I told you we’ll take lots of digressions in a second let me finish telling the the the the narrative 2015 Putin began building Nordstream 2 nordstream 2 is an undersea pipeline that runs from Russia to Germany the entire purpose of Nordstream 2 is when it was completed and turned on it would let Russia circumvent Ukraine and get its gas straight to Europe in 2019 Nordstream 2 was almost complete and the conventional wisdom in Washington was this is terrible but there’s nothing we can do about it i didn’t believe that so I drafted sanctions legislation that was targeted to stop the pipeline my legislation passed the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support it passed the House and Donald Trump signed it in law why would Can I ask why wouldn’t you want Germany to have cheap energy be because it empowers Russia and I believe in making our enemies weaker and our friends stronger has blowing up Nordstream made Germany stronger um not being dependent on Russia has made Germany stronger so you think Germany is stronger now than it was four years ago i think not being dependent on Russia germany has all sorts of problems and many of them are domestic to their own politics hold on let let me finish i’m trying to No but what you’re saying it doesn’t Germany seems so much weaker now that its energy costs have spiked and the manufacturing sector is collapsing because of that let me finish i’m focused on America’s interest i don’t want Russia stronger because I believe Russia is our enemy you and I disagree on that we can talk about that but I want our enemies weaker i don’t want to go to war with Russia but I want our enemies weaker i don’t want Europe dependent on Russia i don’t want Putin rich with oil and gas revenues and able to invest in his military and pose a threat to America so the sanctions legislation that I authored it passed putin stopped building Nordstream 2 literally the day that President Trump signed my sanctions legislation into law he signed it uh if I remember right at 700 p.m on a Thursday putin stopped construction at 6:45 p.m so the sanctions legislation worked and it killed the pipeline the pipeline laid dormant for over a year just a hunk of metal at the bottom of the ocean joe Biden came into office he was sworn in on January 20th 2021 putin resumed deep sea construction of Nordstream 2 4 days later January 24th he did so because Biden had foreshadowed weakness on that this issue that foreshadowing was accurate because several months later Biden formally waved the sanctions on Nordstream 2 and let Putin complete the pipeline in January of 2022 I forced a vote on the Senate floor to reimpose sanctions on Nordstream 2 the week of the vote President Silinsky in Ukraine publicly called on the Senate please pass this sanctions legislation it is the last best hope of stopping Russia from invading Ukraine at the same time the government of Poland put out a formal statement from the foreign ministry to the Senate calling on the Senate to pass my sanctions legislation and said “If you do not Putin will invade Ukraine.” The day of the vote Joe Biden came to Capitol Hill it’s the first time in his presidency he had done that he went to the Democrat senator’s lunch and he personally lobbyed them on this issue not any other issue this was his number one issue that he came to lobby them on they came out of that lunch every Democrat had voted with me twice against Nordstream 2 44 Democrats flipped their vote they voted in favor of Russia in favor of Putin and four weeks later Russia invaded Ukraine that was the direct cause of the war and if Trump had been president there would be no war so may I ask I of course disagree with your analysis um completely but I want to be respectful so tell me what you disagree with i it’s it’s such a long conversation i I’ve spent the last couple of years on this and I just respectfully disagree with with your analysis but I don’t doubt your sincerity that you believe that Putin is our enemy that it’s Western Europe should not be allowed to use Russian energy i mean you seem to really believe these things my question is about results because I think it’s relevant to what we’re seeing now in Iran you look back after having you personally voted to send billions and billions and billions of US tax dollars to Zilinsky to support his civil service and the war against Russia and all this stuff can you say that what you did worked so I can say what I did personally sanctioning Nordstream 2 worked and prevented a war and if Trump had still been there if the sanction had been in effect there would be no war i’m in favor of avoiding wars but once the war broke out you voted to fund it to the tune of billions and billions and billions and to be clear and did that work okay to be to be clear what I voted for I voted for the initial trunch of funding and then I voted against the subsequent one so it hasn’t worked so I’ve been in between I haven’t been on the full Ukraine fullthroated hawk side or the anti from day one i voted for the initial tranch of funding because I wanted Russia to lose i think the Biden administration administered it in a horrible way i think they wasted a ton of money and I think what they did was actually incoherent because they were funding both sides of the war and I was very vocal and and among other things flooding hund00 million to Iran which was used among other things to help the nuclear program but also to make drones that Russia used to fight so here’s my concern i’m not going to defend the B administration um really did a lot to wreck the United States yeah did the most damaging administration where we sit now russia is stronger it’s closely allied long term with China i don’t know that Russia is stronger i don’t think that’s right okay um I think it’s pretty obvious that it is but it’s certainly not destroyed um and it’s allied long-term with China um maybe that look that there’s no doubt Biden’s foreign policy drove Russia into the arms of China concerning they also have a long history of adamosity western Europe is weaker and more in debt the United States is weaker and much more in debt look hold on so you are agreeing we’re agreeing we’re agreeing here’s my question have you questioned any of your previous assumptions did you play any role in this at all are you responsible at all of course and like you you said what have you learned of of like you you said you’ve changed your mind i I voted for the first funding of the Ukraine war and I voted against every subsequent funding stream because it wasn’t working and I looked at what was happening and said “This is not working.” And had the money been spent in an intelligent way and not wasted and had it been successful I might have been willing to fund more but it wasn’t successful so I voted no and and the war is going to end look President Trump campaigned on ending the war i think he’s frustrated because Putin has been less than eager to reach a deal to end the war but it’s going to end you’re not going to see another dollar coming from He wants to end the war um I think Zalinski has behaved horribly i think his Oval Office meeting will go down in history as the worst Oval Office meeting of any leader that has ever come to the Oval Office i think he behaved like a pompous ass and I think he is unrealistic i think Zalinski spends his time with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in the New York Times and he believed he was going to the Oval Office as a resist figure and I think he’s doing real damage to his country right now you described him many times as a hero uh do you I don’t believe I don’t recall ever using the word hero i will say look I’m not I’m not a Zilinsky cheerleader and and I’m not in the business of saying everyone we support has to be a sage and everyone we oppose has to be a villain i’m not in the morality game i’m in the US interest game why did I want Nordstream 2 stopped because it would strengthen Russia and Russia is our enemies it’s entirely US interest did you support the industrial sabotage against it blowing it up um so I think you believe America did that is that right of course okay i think the chances of that are zero you think Russia did it no I I think Ukraine did it okay so I don’t know so I don’t know who did it um in terms of the theories that have been put out there um the idea that Russia blew up their own pipeline never made any sense to me at all that that just I I can’t even articulate why they would do that the idea that Biden did that look I could see it being in US interest to do that to blow up Nordstream too i just think Biden was too weak i don’t believe Joe Biden but are you in I guess you and so so that leads the Norwegians the the Ukrainians NATO whatever look that leads me to you know who benefits and and it leads me to think either the Ukrainians blew it up or Ukraine’s allies i don’t think Biden did because I just Biden was so weak i don’t think he would give the order i I find that implausible but you’re in favor of it i look I was in favor of stopping it i think I think blowing it up is is a was a good thing so So I’m I’m supportive of that but I don’t think America did that i I don’t think Biden gave that order but in general see Trump giving that order but he wasn’t in office yeah and you think that the largest act of industrial sabotage in history helped our allies in Western Europe or other NATO fellow NATO members look I got to say I don’t understand for some reason you are really invested in defending Russia i don’t get that i I’m not attacking you with that i’m genuinely like I don’t get why you’re you’re so passionate about defending Russia actually I was defending Western Europe the the home of my ancestors and that um you know tripling their energy costs and destroying their industrial base no no no not no not like you just accused me of being an anti-semite an isolationist and a Russia lackey i’ve not called you a neocon once which you are but I haven’t That’s absurd yeah those neocons that oppose the Iraq war but like that that’s But so okay but I haven’t called you that because name calling you just said which you are so you just called that called me that you just did i I guess what I’m saying is you’re triggered because I use name calling i get it i was triggered when you called me names and I’m triggered once again that you’re calling me a Russia defender when in fact I’m defending Western Europe and I don’t think that you Do you think Putin’s our enemy i Well he’s Well he’s literally our enemy you are funding a war against him do you think he is our saying we’re his enemy do you think Putin is our enemy i think it is a tragedy that your policies your policies specifically yours helped drive Putin into the arms of China forming a block that’s larger than us so you won’t answer that question i don’t he is literally our enemy right now that is a tragedy for the United States but no no you’re saying but you won’t say he is our enemy look like I don’t know in what sense i don’t want to be enemies with Russia it doesn’t help us at all it may help some people in the United States but in general I don’t want to be I don’t want to be at war with Russia i don’t think it is in our interest to be at war with Russia with China that is but listen no doubt and I want Russia and China attention so I agree with you there but but I think Putin is a KGB thug i think he is a bad man now I don’t want to go to war with him over that but but I’m not naive and and like I watched your He’s a bad man he’s a bad man okay look I watched your episode where you went to the Russian uh grocery store and I’m I’m Was that disloyal do you think it was just weird it was like a promo video for Russia and I don’t understand i’m not attacking you when I ask why because I’m genuinely like I don’t get like when you call me an You weren’t attacking me you were just noticing but may I ask you a question so here well let me just answer yours by saying the United States the Biden administration with your help full support um began this war on Russia in response to their invasion of Ukraine and one of the things they was they kicked Russia out of Swift the international financial system and my first response was it’s going to really hurt the dollar which it has and I hope someday we can have a conversation about that um it’s really really hurt the one thing that we needed which was to retain dollar uh supremacy so I was interested in the in the economic condition by the way that’s a reasonable point and a serious conversation i’m aware i’m aware and I was But I can agree with you like like No no but I was accused of being I think it’s weird that you went to a Russian grocery store and said it was prosperous no my point is it looked like a commercial it looked like a commercial isn’t this wonderful it was an argument against the efficacy of sanctions sanctions against Russia which you casually and enthusiastically imposed scoring a little moral victory every time had no material effect that helped the United States russia is back stopped by China and when you and I recommend that you go there and see it it is way nicer than Washington DC way nicer to me that’s a tragedy i was horrified and angry at my leaders including you it’s like I want to live in a country that’s nice with low food costs and no homeless people all right i I don’t understand why that’s too much to ask so do I instead I get worse with Iran no I just want lower food costs how’s that so look it’s a weird argument that you do often which is listen things are crappy in America liber we liberals have done bad things to America so we shouldn’t worry about any enemies around senators don’t care about us they’re focused on other countries you wrote that our country is dying and you don’t care because you’re focused on Putin so So you believe that I don’t care about America i guess you believe Donald Trump doesn’t either like nobody cares because you believe that your focus is way too on other countries it’s way too focused outward the money that you send abroad could be used here and should be what money that I send abroad by the way I emphatically agree with Ukraine you don’t even know i emphatically agree with with Donald Trump’s for example dramatically slashing USID i I think the only reason we should be deploying that is to benefit US interest national security interest and keep Americans safe and and so how much did you vote to send to Ukraine look you’re in about $80 billion 80 billion yeah 80 so so you you you’re in you love just giving these broad characterizations that are not accurate i I’m I’m genuinely puzzled look I don’t want to go to war with Russia i I I but I don’t think they’re our our friend i think Putin I agree i think Putin is a murderer i think he’s a liar and I think he does not wish well on America okay a and there’s a difference between saying that just like Reagan referred to the Soviet Union as an evil empire and Putin was in the KGB look my father was imprisoned and tortured in Cuba i hate communists it was actually Batista that tortured my dad my aunt was imprisoned and tortured by Castro i hate communists i think communism is evil and so I think there is a value to there is nobody who stands up to communist China more in the Senate than I do because I think they’re evil do I want to go to war with China of course not that would be ridiculous but I think we have all sorts of tools to stand up to our enemies and I think China is engaged in a thousand-year war against the United States they’re trying to def all over the map where your family in prison in Cuba and China and all this stuff i just I I agree with you i’m totally opposed to communism always have been i don’t think that Putin loves us i I’m distressed by the moral condition of most leaders around the world most of them they all kill people i’m against that i’m just saying I wish the focus here was more can I say something i I actually don’t agree with that statement they all kill people there’s a moral relativism so I don’t think Donald Trump is a murderer he doesn’t kill people we don’t have concentration is Donald Trump a murderer you just said world leaders all kill people and and there’s a moral relativism i’m hardly a moral but you are you just that statement was the essence i’m an anti-semite an isolationist a moral relativist okay no did you just say world leaders all saying I’m against killing people in general so and hyperventilating about how Putin was in the KGB or whatever i just want to serve American interest and pushing him to China is not in our interest at all and you helped do it and you haven’t apologized that’s good and and by the way you’re the cheerleader i helped drive him into China it’s a complete lie you funded the war against him no I I authored the legislation that shut down Nordstream 2 that prevented the war and and if Trump had still been in the White House we would have had the war and and look the comment you made the reason things like moral relativism are so dangerous oh everyone kills people no there is a difference the United States we don’t have concentration camps we don’t torture and murder people you look at China where they’ve got a million prisoners in concentration camps you look at Putin where he’s got prisoners in Siberia he he tortures and murders his political opponents donald Trump doesn’t do that america doesn’t do that and by the way what are you talking about other countries don’t do that i see the game it’s like I’m the game i’m distressed no I’m responding with facts you don’t like the facts the I don’t even know what facts you’re talking about i’m not saying that Trump puts people in concentration camps i I campaigned for Trump i love Trump so did I okay so this is nothing to do with Trump i’m merely saying world leader kills people it emphasis on what’s happening inside the country that’s it is there a moral difference between America and our enemies is there a moral difference between America and what is it but articulated it’s valuable to say why why are we a better country founded on better values than China i’ll tell you the difference i’ll tell you why and I know I because the whole purpose of America is to protect the God-given rights that each person possesses by virtue of being created by God amen by being human that’s the point of our founding documents and no other country articulates that in the way that we do and that’s that’s what I love about America my family’s been here a long time i’m never leaving so I really love the country despite going to a Russian grocery store despite asking you questions about APAC I love America is the truth and I and I love Trump so I just want more emphasis on America that’s it i emphatically agree with America first i think Donald Trump does as well and I think his foreign policy has been vigorously protecting that and I I agree with the president good well I appreciate you taking all this time sure and I know you didn’t mean it when you called me those names thank you Senator [Music] so it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show on one level we hope that you’ll do
Senator Ted Cruz demands regime change in Iran. He’s not interested in the details.
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#TuckerCarlson #TedCruz #Iran #Israel #war #regimechange #Syria #DonaldTrump #Obama #debate #nuclearwar #Iraq #news #politics
Chapters:
0:00 Why Does Cruz Want Regime Change in Iran?
6:28 Is the US Currently Acting in Its Own Best Interest?
7:49 Was Regime Change in Syria Beneficial to the US?
12:31 Was the Iraq War a Mistake?
18:55 Why Aren’t US Politicians Focused on Fixing America’s Problems?
27:02 How Much Money Is the US Sending to Israel?
29:17 Does Cruz Think It’s Okay That Foreign Governments Spy on America?
31:47 How Much Money Has Cruz Taken From AIPAC?
38:22 To What Extent Is the US Government Influenced by Foreign Governments?
49:12 Is the Israel of the Bible the Same as the Current Israeli Government?
55:09 How Does Funding Israel Benefit the US?
1:11:54 What Happens Next in Iran?
1:13:42 What Really Is an Isolationist?
1:19:53 Are There Iranian Assassins Trying to Kill Trump?
1:30:18 Cruz Knows Nothing About Iran and Wants to Destroy It Anyway
1:32:55 Trump’s Response to Tucker’s Position on Iran
1:34:51 Cruz Refuses to Apologize for Supporting the Disastrous Ukraine/Russia War
1:46:55 Why Does Cruz Think Zelensky Is a Hero?
1:47:44 Why Did Cruz Support the Blowing up of Nord Stream?
1:50:12 Is Russia an Enemy of the US?
1:56:29 Is America the Moral Authority?
25 comments
Yes, the international Jew needs the state of Israel which is a non extradition state to have dual citizenship so they can enrich themselves on usury and Heter Iska. Go research USURY and Heter Iska
Tucker is starting to lose me.
Wow Tucker. I don't like Ted but man he pissed u off and it shows
It’s like watching an old married couple fight
32:26 -1hp -1hp -1hp -1hp -1hp -1hp -1hp -1hp 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 bro is guilty af
Damn honestly ted is getting his ass cut, he's going to have multiple assholes after this one 😂
I used to be a fan of Tucker's, but not after this antagonistic and disrespectful interview. Just because I support a cause doesn't mean I'm an agent on behalf of a foreign government. I think Ted Cruz is one of the few conservatives who is doing what he can to support MAGA and our best interests, including supporting the nation (and government) of Israel.
Tucker may have got a W here, but what he's done is guarantee no other conservative politician will ever interview with him again.
WOW I felt like I was watching the VIEW😩🤦♀️ So many question with loud interrupted answers Tuff 2 hours guys but still glad to hear some of the answers.
It sure is strange how the so called "experts" in Washington don't even know critical facts about the country (Iran) they want to invade.
Крестовые походы возвращаются?
Respect, Respect, Respect to TC 🙏
Ted Cruz seems like a complete idiot.
Tucker laid out the Hammer!!!!!
Dawn, I thought Megan Kelly dog walked Jake Tapper. This is worse, arrest Tucker. 😂
Tucker you have shown just how shit these people are…
33:00 😂😂😂😂 wrong and thats the end of it dont ask why.
27:20 It's historically their money, they design it, they issue it, they created the credit infrastructure that enslaves you to support it's value, and you sacrifice you sons and daughters via defense of anything or anyone that threatens it's global #1 trading currency status.
Trump took down ISIS his first term and did not start a war nor did he send boots on the ground. Though many said over and over that Trump would cause a war back then. It was not so.
Trump can’t just say ok no involvement we out. That sends the wrong message to the enemy. He has to talk though so they can take him seriously and hopefully take a deal. Tucker saying to the world not to do anything is not good negotiating.
ted cruz lives his life off a line in the bible and cant even remember the line, what kind of alternate reality are we even living in at this point?
Everytime I see/year Cruz in a long forum interview/debate, I dislike him more.
Very hurt by and disappointed in Tucker’s behavior. 😢
Tucker ! You went too far! I’m super disappointed!
Ted is such a slippery politician.
I think it was Mark Twain who said something to the effect of "I would call politicians pond scum, but that would be insulting to pond scum".
CRUZ IS LIKE THE R version of Piglosi
Comments are closed.