Ireland don’t know about suppression of culture and language says the Estonian MEP speaking Estonian…..
There’s a lot of bad to be said about the big Estonian neighbour but at least they didn’t force their language and culture upon the Estonians
Potato fight. Only thing to sort it!
I was speaking to an Afghan about how Ireland shares commonality with Palestine and he said we couldn’t truly understand Palestinians because we are not being bombed.
The further in time from the atrocities you are, the less value others seem to perceive of your nations suffering.
An embarrassing lack of knowledge about European history for the vice-President of the EU Commission to have. I don’t expect her to be an expert in Irish history, but I would expect someone of her position to do her due diligence and know what she’s talking about before she speaks
I hope every MEP complains
The EU are hellbent on getting us to join NATO or the EU army that will replace it. It’s a little bit like drinking the Kool-Aid in Waco!
Seems like pure intentional ragebait. Her comments, I mean. But, to what end?
Oh, Kaja. It’s precisely because we know these things that we have taken such a position on neutrality.
Seems to me like Europe is sick of listening to our shite, and our whole “most oppressed people ever” shtick doesn’t really cut any mustard with people who were occupied by both the Nazis and Soviets in living memory.
Disgusting comment that which will go unchecked by the rest of the EU politic because it was made in the advancement of warmongering, neoliberal policies
Kaja is complete right here becuase the key word she uses here is “modern day understanding”.
Typical of Sinn fein to give putin an assist here.
There are people alive in Europe today that have experienced an invasion and oppresion than no one in Ireland has ever experienced.
Like Irish people believe that the colonisation of Ireland was the horric thing that ever happened even though its pales in comparasion to the level of brutality experienced by most nations in europe during world war 2.
Going further i fine it very arrogant when Irish people say only they understand occupation and colonization and oppresion, i mean come on, many nations in Europe and around the world had far more worse experiences than Ireland did in the grand historical scheme of things.
“If, you know, you surrender and you have the aggressor and you say okay take all that you want, it doesn’t mean that the human suffering will stop.
“Our experience behind the Iron Curtain [the de facto border between East and West during the cold war], after the Second World War countries like Ireland got to build up their prosperity, but for us it meant atrocities, mass deportations, suppression of culture and language.
“This is what happens. It is also peace, but it’s actually not freedom, freedom of choice for people, and that is what an EU is all about, and that is what we are fighting for.”
I don’t think her comments were unreasonable. A lot of Irish people have this incessant need to point out our historical oppression, despite us being independent for the last century and a quite wealthy 1st world nation for the last 30 years, as if it gives us some extra authority on more current geopolitical events.
The reality is that no Irish person, at least certainly in the Republic, really knows oppression by another power like many in Eastern Europe do.
FACEPALM FOR MS. KALLAS
This is the anger that will be shown to us and spoken to Government ministers when they go to Europe for talks about NATO, so much anger that any once of rational thinking disappears in the mist.
I like this woman but she’s fucked up here
Absolutely disgusted by her remarks. Resignation worthy.
The rhetoric coming out of the higher echelons of the EU in regard to Ireland lately have been disgraceful. I knew we weren’t particular favourites of theirs and we’re seen as a thorn in their side but Christ almighty they’d want to give it a rest.
What a dope she is.
What do you expect from an institution with no democratic mandate. They are totally disconnected from the people of Europe.
Kallas work for daddy Israel more than she does any of us.
This is the kind of rhetorical horseshit people feared when we said NO to Lisbon’s common defense pact. So they gave us assurances they’d never transgress our neutrality, nor our soverign taxation rights.
Look how both of those are working out.
It was a stupid statement but let’s not kid ourselves on neutrality. We were neutral in WW2 because we were in no shape to fight a war and feelings about the Brits were mixed at best. We were neutral afterwards because WW2 worked out well for us and it was a good way of avoiding having to spend any serious money on defense.
EU’s most senior foreign affairs official definitely lied on her CV.
> Ireland too endured atrocities, from the Ballymurphy massacre to Bloody Sunday, where innocent civilians were shot and killed by British soldiers.
>Our people suffered internment without trial, and widespread discrimination in housing and employment, particularly in the North.
And what was the Irish government’s actions towards these atrocities and discrimination we experienced in the north?
Estonia is very close to Russia. And Ireland was certainly very supportive of Ukraine when it was invaded by Russia.
And yet, despite their proximity and history of oppression by Russia, these comments have nothing to do with Russia.
We support EU membership more than almost any other nation. It’s just so sad to see how much credibility the EU losing here. But then, cheerleading genocide will do that.
In this topic: tankies
If we lose our neutrality, we will be used as disposable pawns.
Well that’s a glaring lack of knowledge on her part
She is spot on
Ireland’s policy relates to 17th century sadly
What a numpty. Ireland is one the very few countries in the EU which was colonised rather than did the colonising. For her to say what she did is incredibly ignorant. Ireland was far from ‘prospering’ during WWII just because we weren’t directly involved. Our people were still recovering from mass emigration and civil war.
Ok so we are all in it together now that you have a big aggressive neighbour threatening you. So where were the Estonians in 1916?
I’d really like to see the full context.
She indicated towards a specific location when referring to her “Irish colleagues”, which makes me suspect she was replying to something specific said by some Irish MEPs during the discussion that’s not in the clip. Although our most hard-core tankie MEPs lost their seats in the recent European elections, we still elected a few I wouldn’t trust not to say something that’d make Kallas’ reply a lot more understandable.
Some people consider a big chunk of Ireland is occupied by a NATO power. And I’m pretty sure the Irish government claimed sovereignty of the entire island up until oh I think maybe 1998?
Talk about ignorance.
She’s just a ‘girl boss’ politician replacement for Sanna Marin lol.
The first part of the article feels a bit misleading. Her comments were specifically regarding the era post WW2, where countries like us got the chance to prosper, while countries behind the Iron Curtain suffered “atrocities, mass deportations, suppression of culture and language”
Her point is that the peace we want to maintain doesn’t always mean freedom. Is she objectively correct about our stance? No. But this isn’t the offensive comment Kathleen Funchion is making it out to be
I see some people saying it doesn’t matter and with all do respect it does matter. This an official blatantly insulting Ireland and showing pork ignorance towards our history with cultural oppression that still continues in some ways in the north.
It also shows how pigheaded EU leaders can be instead of fostering debate and unity they feather stir shit with friends instead of facing the true challenges. Ireland is a free country and we do our duty to the EU to our expenses at times lest we forgot austerity and how we still suffer from it.
So I as a Irish citizen do not appreciate the EU officials mocking our self determinism, our own history and ignoring our own immense contributions to the EU(as the most pro EU nation no less as well)
>The Irish people do not have an understanding of atrocities, mass deportations, suppression of culture and language
fucking EXCUSE ME?????????
Performative indignation from the Shinners. The only thing stopping us building prosperity was our shut governments leading to mass emigration and zero population growth.
Has she not heard of ULSTER??? The GFA??? No of course not, nobody pays any attention to Ireland unless it’s to dismiss or belittle us. And from an Estonian? I’d expect the Tans alright, but an Estonian? The cheek of her!
In all fairness, as a nation we absolutely do have a lack of atrocities in our conciousness when compared to the likes of Estonia or other former Iron Curtain countries.
Like not only are the generations which experienced that still alive, but they are relatively young, while for us, the atrocities of the War of Independence are a distant memory with no one alive with first hand experience, and when compared with those of the Soviet and Warsaw pact regimes tend to be fairly mild in comparison when one looks at the numbers.
We’re not neutral. We are security freeloaders. We have benefitted so much from US hegemony in the last 30 plus years, and we sit on the edge of Europe safe in the knowledge that one, or all, of the US/NATO/EU/UK will fully protect us should we ever be threatened.
Irish people would do well to remember that we do not have a monopoly on having a traumatic past. Many countries have suffered as much, and more, and they live with the continued threat of their historic conquerors hanging over their heads to this day, Estonia being a case in point.
She’s right.
Yeah that neutrality stuff goes over a treat with tiny Estonia firmly in Russian sights.
Added bonus, Estonia backed us over the border during Brexit and the UK is the lead NATO country in Estonias NATO defense plan.
Thanks lads, btw stuff your independence up your arses.
Also 800 years.
We’re a bunch of fucking spoofers lads
Saying the quiet part out loud.
Paddy over there in the Atlantic feels the rest of Europe can, checks notes, fuck off with itself when it comes to Russia.
Also, the rest of Europe can provide for our national security in extremis because shure everybody loves a paddy.
🙄🇪🇺🇮🇪🇺🇦
VP Kallas is a most impressive speaker and political leader. Estonians are lucky to have a person of her caliber.
Her comments are not wrong about Ireland’s neutrality. Ireland has had the luxury of no military spending, freedom to build its economy, freedom from a huge next door neighbor trying to crush you. Yeah, I know what Britain did in IRL, im irish myself, but the UK has respected our independence since 1921, has accepted millions of us as immigrants for work, and is providing for our frigging defense, still. 104 years AFTER independence, we have no planes, a token navy we can’t staff, no cyber, and a handful of well trained soldiers that, with the best will in the world are in no position to defend our island. Mad stuff, really. So, when Ms Kallas looks at Ireland and sees its freeloading attitude to defense, and its head in the sand attitude to the mortal threat brewing on Europe’s doorstep, she’s right to speak up.
There is a characteristic all to common in IRL, and that is ” group think ” . It’s these commonly held beliefs that persist, until eventually the shit hits the fan. Reality and reforms eventually emerge, but only after the “sacred cows” have proven to be ,well dangerous. Examples, the Church held sway over social, and education policies for 65 years with no divorce, no contraception etc. Back in the 60s 70s and 80s the majority accepted the group think that it was OK to have the church control society in such a way that led to horrible abuses like the Magellan Laundries, sexual abuse of children etc. Looking back it seems incredible that we permitted the Church such power, but we did. What does this have to do with neutrality? It’s the same group think at play. It’s the same denial of reality, we know about it, think it’s bad, but deny it has any relevance for us. ” Ah shure, who’d be attacking us anyways!?” attitude. People still say this, after multiple incidents of Russian ships mapping data cables off the west coast, and multiple events where Russian bombers enter Irish airspace with their transponders turned off, who are then intercepted by, wait for it, the RAF. Doing us a real solid tome and time again.
So yes, VP Kallas is right to call us out on our reality denying attitude to defense.
This was obviously a cackhanded way for her to put it, but can we not, for the love of God, get a handle on how we approach this issue.
I don’t know how many of you have heard of Stuthoff – it was the first Nazi concentration camp in Poland, but relatively small compared to some of the ones that followed. I’d never heard of it until I met my Polish wife. Two of her family members were killed there, Polish officers captured in 1939. As I say, it was one of the smaller camps – ‘only’ 65,000 or so people died/were murdered there over its 5.5 years of existence, but about ten times as many people were killed in this one camp as were killed in our war of independence and the Troubles combined.* They were killed by a genocidal dictatorship, who shipped their families (including my wife’s grandmother, who was a child at the time) off to use as slave labour in another part of their empire, while we sat by and prided ourselves on being good neutrals.
This is just one small example of many, many horrors experienced by one, far from unique family. They have even more about the Russians and the PRL. I don’t know as much about Estonia, or anything about Kallas’ family history, but I know some of what Eastern Europeans hear when they hear us preach about neutrality, and I completely agree with them. Yes, we have experienced horrors of our own, though the only ones that come close to these are long beyond living memory, and were committed by a state that, for all that they can be a frustrating, arrogant neighbour, is not about to do the same again any time soon.** They have grown up with entire branches of their family tree wiped out, under the direct control and (often) personal surveillance of an oppressor that is gearing up to do it all again.
Our neutrality is not brave, it is not principled (beyond a general FU to the UK, which, y’know, fair enough). It’s just easy. If we were genuinely threatened by our historical oppressor, we would be looking for any and all the help we could get, but we’re not, so we just sit on the sidelines, sending thoughts and prayers and telling ourselves how enlightened we are for doing so. I love this country, but sometimes, when we start down this tired old path, I do struggle to remember why.
Sorry for this rant, but Christ, we could do with taking a good look at ourselves sometimes.
* I am basing this off Wikipedia figures and am open to correction, but you get the broad point.
** With the possible exception of a Farage premiership.
44 comments
Ireland don’t know about suppression of culture and language says the Estonian MEP speaking Estonian…..
There’s a lot of bad to be said about the big Estonian neighbour but at least they didn’t force their language and culture upon the Estonians
Potato fight. Only thing to sort it!
I was speaking to an Afghan about how Ireland shares commonality with Palestine and he said we couldn’t truly understand Palestinians because we are not being bombed.
The further in time from the atrocities you are, the less value others seem to perceive of your nations suffering.
An embarrassing lack of knowledge about European history for the vice-President of the EU Commission to have. I don’t expect her to be an expert in Irish history, but I would expect someone of her position to do her due diligence and know what she’s talking about before she speaks
I hope every MEP complains
The EU are hellbent on getting us to join NATO or the EU army that will replace it. It’s a little bit like drinking the Kool-Aid in Waco!
Seems like pure intentional ragebait. Her comments, I mean. But, to what end?
Oh, Kaja. It’s precisely because we know these things that we have taken such a position on neutrality.
Seems to me like Europe is sick of listening to our shite, and our whole “most oppressed people ever” shtick doesn’t really cut any mustard with people who were occupied by both the Nazis and Soviets in living memory.
Disgusting comment that which will go unchecked by the rest of the EU politic because it was made in the advancement of warmongering, neoliberal policies
Kaja is complete right here becuase the key word she uses here is “modern day understanding”.
Typical of Sinn fein to give putin an assist here.
There are people alive in Europe today that have experienced an invasion and oppresion than no one in Ireland has ever experienced.
Like Irish people believe that the colonisation of Ireland was the horric thing that ever happened even though its pales in comparasion to the level of brutality experienced by most nations in europe during world war 2.
Going further i fine it very arrogant when Irish people say only they understand occupation and colonization and oppresion, i mean come on, many nations in Europe and around the world had far more worse experiences than Ireland did in the grand historical scheme of things.
“If, you know, you surrender and you have the aggressor and you say okay take all that you want, it doesn’t mean that the human suffering will stop.
“Our experience behind the Iron Curtain [the de facto border between East and West during the cold war], after the Second World War countries like Ireland got to build up their prosperity, but for us it meant atrocities, mass deportations, suppression of culture and language.
“This is what happens. It is also peace, but it’s actually not freedom, freedom of choice for people, and that is what an EU is all about, and that is what we are fighting for.”
I don’t think her comments were unreasonable. A lot of Irish people have this incessant need to point out our historical oppression, despite us being independent for the last century and a quite wealthy 1st world nation for the last 30 years, as if it gives us some extra authority on more current geopolitical events.
The reality is that no Irish person, at least certainly in the Republic, really knows oppression by another power like many in Eastern Europe do.
FACEPALM FOR MS. KALLAS
This is the anger that will be shown to us and spoken to Government ministers when they go to Europe for talks about NATO, so much anger that any once of rational thinking disappears in the mist.
I like this woman but she’s fucked up here
Absolutely disgusted by her remarks. Resignation worthy.
The rhetoric coming out of the higher echelons of the EU in regard to Ireland lately have been disgraceful. I knew we weren’t particular favourites of theirs and we’re seen as a thorn in their side but Christ almighty they’d want to give it a rest.
What a dope she is.
What do you expect from an institution with no democratic mandate. They are totally disconnected from the people of Europe.
Kallas work for daddy Israel more than she does any of us.
This is the kind of rhetorical horseshit people feared when we said NO to Lisbon’s common defense pact. So they gave us assurances they’d never transgress our neutrality, nor our soverign taxation rights.
Look how both of those are working out.
It was a stupid statement but let’s not kid ourselves on neutrality. We were neutral in WW2 because we were in no shape to fight a war and feelings about the Brits were mixed at best. We were neutral afterwards because WW2 worked out well for us and it was a good way of avoiding having to spend any serious money on defense.
EU’s most senior foreign affairs official definitely lied on her CV.
> Ireland too endured atrocities, from the Ballymurphy massacre to Bloody Sunday, where innocent civilians were shot and killed by British soldiers.
>Our people suffered internment without trial, and widespread discrimination in housing and employment, particularly in the North.
And what was the Irish government’s actions towards these atrocities and discrimination we experienced in the north?
Estonia is very close to Russia. And Ireland was certainly very supportive of Ukraine when it was invaded by Russia.
And yet, despite their proximity and history of oppression by Russia, these comments have nothing to do with Russia.
We support EU membership more than almost any other nation. It’s just so sad to see how much credibility the EU losing here. But then, cheerleading genocide will do that.
In this topic: tankies
If we lose our neutrality, we will be used as disposable pawns.
Well that’s a glaring lack of knowledge on her part
She is spot on
Ireland’s policy relates to 17th century sadly
What a numpty. Ireland is one the very few countries in the EU which was colonised rather than did the colonising. For her to say what she did is incredibly ignorant. Ireland was far from ‘prospering’ during WWII just because we weren’t directly involved. Our people were still recovering from mass emigration and civil war.
Ok so we are all in it together now that you have a big aggressive neighbour threatening you. So where were the Estonians in 1916?
I’d really like to see the full context.
She indicated towards a specific location when referring to her “Irish colleagues”, which makes me suspect she was replying to something specific said by some Irish MEPs during the discussion that’s not in the clip. Although our most hard-core tankie MEPs lost their seats in the recent European elections, we still elected a few I wouldn’t trust not to say something that’d make Kallas’ reply a lot more understandable.
Some people consider a big chunk of Ireland is occupied by a NATO power. And I’m pretty sure the Irish government claimed sovereignty of the entire island up until oh I think maybe 1998?
Talk about ignorance.
She’s just a ‘girl boss’ politician replacement for Sanna Marin lol.
The first part of the article feels a bit misleading. Her comments were specifically regarding the era post WW2, where countries like us got the chance to prosper, while countries behind the Iron Curtain suffered “atrocities, mass deportations, suppression of culture and language”
Her point is that the peace we want to maintain doesn’t always mean freedom. Is she objectively correct about our stance? No. But this isn’t the offensive comment Kathleen Funchion is making it out to be
I see some people saying it doesn’t matter and with all do respect it does matter. This an official blatantly insulting Ireland and showing pork ignorance towards our history with cultural oppression that still continues in some ways in the north.
It also shows how pigheaded EU leaders can be instead of fostering debate and unity they feather stir shit with friends instead of facing the true challenges. Ireland is a free country and we do our duty to the EU to our expenses at times lest we forgot austerity and how we still suffer from it.
So I as a Irish citizen do not appreciate the EU officials mocking our self determinism, our own history and ignoring our own immense contributions to the EU(as the most pro EU nation no less as well)
>The Irish people do not have an understanding of atrocities, mass deportations, suppression of culture and language
fucking EXCUSE ME?????????
Performative indignation from the Shinners. The only thing stopping us building prosperity was our shut governments leading to mass emigration and zero population growth.
Has she not heard of ULSTER??? The GFA??? No of course not, nobody pays any attention to Ireland unless it’s to dismiss or belittle us. And from an Estonian? I’d expect the Tans alright, but an Estonian? The cheek of her!
In all fairness, as a nation we absolutely do have a lack of atrocities in our conciousness when compared to the likes of Estonia or other former Iron Curtain countries.
Like not only are the generations which experienced that still alive, but they are relatively young, while for us, the atrocities of the War of Independence are a distant memory with no one alive with first hand experience, and when compared with those of the Soviet and Warsaw pact regimes tend to be fairly mild in comparison when one looks at the numbers.
We’re not neutral. We are security freeloaders. We have benefitted so much from US hegemony in the last 30 plus years, and we sit on the edge of Europe safe in the knowledge that one, or all, of the US/NATO/EU/UK will fully protect us should we ever be threatened.
Irish people would do well to remember that we do not have a monopoly on having a traumatic past. Many countries have suffered as much, and more, and they live with the continued threat of their historic conquerors hanging over their heads to this day, Estonia being a case in point.
She’s right.
Yeah that neutrality stuff goes over a treat with tiny Estonia firmly in Russian sights.
Added bonus, Estonia backed us over the border during Brexit and the UK is the lead NATO country in Estonias NATO defense plan.
Thanks lads, btw stuff your independence up your arses.
Also 800 years.
We’re a bunch of fucking spoofers lads
Saying the quiet part out loud.
Paddy over there in the Atlantic feels the rest of Europe can, checks notes, fuck off with itself when it comes to Russia.
Also, the rest of Europe can provide for our national security in extremis because shure everybody loves a paddy.
🙄🇪🇺🇮🇪🇺🇦
VP Kallas is a most impressive speaker and political leader. Estonians are lucky to have a person of her caliber.
Her comments are not wrong about Ireland’s neutrality. Ireland has had the luxury of no military spending, freedom to build its economy, freedom from a huge next door neighbor trying to crush you. Yeah, I know what Britain did in IRL, im irish myself, but the UK has respected our independence since 1921, has accepted millions of us as immigrants for work, and is providing for our frigging defense, still. 104 years AFTER independence, we have no planes, a token navy we can’t staff, no cyber, and a handful of well trained soldiers that, with the best will in the world are in no position to defend our island. Mad stuff, really. So, when Ms Kallas looks at Ireland and sees its freeloading attitude to defense, and its head in the sand attitude to the mortal threat brewing on Europe’s doorstep, she’s right to speak up.
There is a characteristic all to common in IRL, and that is ” group think ” . It’s these commonly held beliefs that persist, until eventually the shit hits the fan. Reality and reforms eventually emerge, but only after the “sacred cows” have proven to be ,well dangerous. Examples, the Church held sway over social, and education policies for 65 years with no divorce, no contraception etc. Back in the 60s 70s and 80s the majority accepted the group think that it was OK to have the church control society in such a way that led to horrible abuses like the Magellan Laundries, sexual abuse of children etc. Looking back it seems incredible that we permitted the Church such power, but we did. What does this have to do with neutrality? It’s the same group think at play. It’s the same denial of reality, we know about it, think it’s bad, but deny it has any relevance for us. ” Ah shure, who’d be attacking us anyways!?” attitude. People still say this, after multiple incidents of Russian ships mapping data cables off the west coast, and multiple events where Russian bombers enter Irish airspace with their transponders turned off, who are then intercepted by, wait for it, the RAF. Doing us a real solid tome and time again.
So yes, VP Kallas is right to call us out on our reality denying attitude to defense.
This was obviously a cackhanded way for her to put it, but can we not, for the love of God, get a handle on how we approach this issue.
I don’t know how many of you have heard of Stuthoff – it was the first Nazi concentration camp in Poland, but relatively small compared to some of the ones that followed. I’d never heard of it until I met my Polish wife. Two of her family members were killed there, Polish officers captured in 1939. As I say, it was one of the smaller camps – ‘only’ 65,000 or so people died/were murdered there over its 5.5 years of existence, but about ten times as many people were killed in this one camp as were killed in our war of independence and the Troubles combined.* They were killed by a genocidal dictatorship, who shipped their families (including my wife’s grandmother, who was a child at the time) off to use as slave labour in another part of their empire, while we sat by and prided ourselves on being good neutrals.
This is just one small example of many, many horrors experienced by one, far from unique family. They have even more about the Russians and the PRL. I don’t know as much about Estonia, or anything about Kallas’ family history, but I know some of what Eastern Europeans hear when they hear us preach about neutrality, and I completely agree with them. Yes, we have experienced horrors of our own, though the only ones that come close to these are long beyond living memory, and were committed by a state that, for all that they can be a frustrating, arrogant neighbour, is not about to do the same again any time soon.** They have grown up with entire branches of their family tree wiped out, under the direct control and (often) personal surveillance of an oppressor that is gearing up to do it all again.
Our neutrality is not brave, it is not principled (beyond a general FU to the UK, which, y’know, fair enough). It’s just easy. If we were genuinely threatened by our historical oppressor, we would be looking for any and all the help we could get, but we’re not, so we just sit on the sidelines, sending thoughts and prayers and telling ourselves how enlightened we are for doing so. I love this country, but sometimes, when we start down this tired old path, I do struggle to remember why.
Sorry for this rant, but Christ, we could do with taking a good look at ourselves sometimes.
* I am basing this off Wikipedia figures and am open to correction, but you get the broad point.
** With the possible exception of a Farage premiership.
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