What does an early leaver mean? Do they not finish primary school? Secondary? Uni?
Tradesmen, probably. Just from what I know anyway.
Because the shcool system is shit and punishes people who fall behind or out of it instead of catching them and helping them get back on track.
And they just keep adding more and more rules to fuck over people who are on the way out already.
Teachers are also not really at fault here as they just keep getting bullshit they need to do piled on from the goverment instead of room to actually focus on teaching (teacher I know spendt more time last year writing reports than actual class related stuff, for some strange reason she’s burned out and want a new job).
[deleted]
Thing is… I have lived in many countries and in certain places you have to have a university degree or two to make any kind of money.
While in Norway you can makeextremely good money on almost any job. So a lot of people dont feel they need to get very educated. Like my brother who runs his own welding company.
And another factor is… Norway often comes out looking bad on a lot of international surveys like these because Norway is a very well organised country with a lot of available statistics. While other countries may not have equally accurate statistics and therefore end up looking great… Due to lacking information.
You don’t need a degree here to be rich
Maybe there is no financial motivation to carry on learning. If a high school graduate income is the same as a bachelor’s after taxes, Y should you carry on learning?
The main reasons given are: bullying, lack of support at school, loneliness, illness, lack of motivation, lack of apprenticeship places, lack of support at home, and general problems with well-being.
I earn more with no formal education beyond the basics then a friend in a management position in my kommune for instance. University degrees are mostly memes and a heavy debt burden with little influence on your earning ability outside very narrow specialized fields.
Just out of curiousity is this counting as permanent out or people that defer post secondary learning at a later age? Because correct me if I’m wrong do a significant number of people do military service then do post secondary education a little later?
It is probably so high because only 10 years of school is mandatory. It is possible to get a decent paying job without further education. The trend has been decreasing until an increase in 2022. They hypothesize the increase can at least partly be explained by Ukrainian refugees.
Don’t know how the various school levels are physically broken down in all countries, but just the fact that secondary school in Norway consists of two distinct schools creates a more natural point at which to leave, compared to a country like Ireland (at the other end of this particular scale), where lower and upper secondary school both (generally) take place in the same school.
I can answer some of it!
Where I grew up, you had to move to attend VgS (equivalent to high school or trade school, I believe). You might be able to get home on the weekends, but you had to move. Commuting was not an option, period.
Now, let that sink in for a while: Children, youths if we’re generous, have to move away from home, often to live on their own, at the tender age of 15-16. They’re uprooted from the community and people they know, move to a new community without any real connections there. While hormones are raging and they’re insecure and vulnerable, they not only have to go to school, make new friends, and balance school and social life. They also have to be homemakers, budget around their meagre stipends, with varying degrees of support from home. That, of course, leads to a real, magnified class divide:
Resourceful families can take their kids to the new school, acclimatise their children to the city, teach them the necessary skills, and can come by to check on them every so often, supporting them through their education. Renting a room or an apartment in the city might cause some unrest in the monthly budget, but it doesn’t break the bank.
Less resourceful families get less help in that regard, particularly economically. They might not be able to afford to take their kids to get familiar with the city and help them get settled, and might have more than enough to deal with in managing their own lives. Might have to find relatives to live with or other creative solutions to finding the kid a place to stay, and with economical burdens on top of academic, social, and private ones it’s no wonder the children drop out. Kids ought to be allowed to have those extra 2-3 years of unworried youthful life before young adulthood hits them. Ideally, they should have been able to live in a rent-controlled dorm with responsible adults to look after them, to have a better chance of completing their education.
Of course, that’s not to say all kids from resourceful families succeed and ones from less resourceful families drop out, but the decks are certainly stacked that way.
When they drop out they might find a job and manage somewhat well, but those kids should have had a better chance at getting a real education and chasing their dreams, rather than taking a (any) job just to stay alive. With higher requirements for formal education, the ones without it don’t even have a very good shot at getting in on the job market in the first place.
Anecdotally, of my class (9 pupils), only five of us finished VGS, and only two finished higher education.
Even today, Nordland county has the second highest rate of early education leavers, even if the statistics have improved.
It’s also not all bad news: For trades, people have become more aware of other models than the established 2-3 years of school and 2 years of apprenticeship, so they’ve found ways of getting their professional competence formalised.
Trades unlike in US where they force a worthless education upon someone that will never step foot into a university
14 comments
What does an early leaver mean? Do they not finish primary school? Secondary? Uni?
Tradesmen, probably. Just from what I know anyway.
Because the shcool system is shit and punishes people who fall behind or out of it instead of catching them and helping them get back on track.
And they just keep adding more and more rules to fuck over people who are on the way out already.
Teachers are also not really at fault here as they just keep getting bullshit they need to do piled on from the goverment instead of room to actually focus on teaching (teacher I know spendt more time last year writing reports than actual class related stuff, for some strange reason she’s burned out and want a new job).
[deleted]
Thing is… I have lived in many countries and in certain places you have to have a university degree or two to make any kind of money.
While in Norway you can makeextremely good money on almost any job. So a lot of people dont feel they need to get very educated. Like my brother who runs his own welding company.
And another factor is… Norway often comes out looking bad on a lot of international surveys like these because Norway is a very well organised country with a lot of available statistics. While other countries may not have equally accurate statistics and therefore end up looking great… Due to lacking information.
You don’t need a degree here to be rich
Maybe there is no financial motivation to carry on learning. If a high school graduate income is the same as a bachelor’s after taxes, Y should you carry on learning?
Here’s an article (in Norwegian) on why young people drop out of upper secondary school (16-19, videregående), which isn’t compulsory. https://www.nrk.no/vestfoldogtelemark/xl/derfor-valgte-ungdommene-a-slutte-pa-videregaende-skole-1.15145971
The main reasons given are: bullying, lack of support at school, loneliness, illness, lack of motivation, lack of apprenticeship places, lack of support at home, and general problems with well-being.
I earn more with no formal education beyond the basics then a friend in a management position in my kommune for instance. University degrees are mostly memes and a heavy debt burden with little influence on your earning ability outside very narrow specialized fields.
Just out of curiousity is this counting as permanent out or people that defer post secondary learning at a later age? Because correct me if I’m wrong do a significant number of people do military service then do post secondary education a little later?
[Here is a nice article](https://www.udir.no/tall-og-forskning/statistikk/statistikk-videregaende-skole/analyser/2024/gjennomforing-av-videregaende-opplaring/) on the subject by Utdanningsdirektoratet (in Norwegian).
It is probably so high because only 10 years of school is mandatory. It is possible to get a decent paying job without further education. The trend has been decreasing until an increase in 2022. They hypothesize the increase can at least partly be explained by Ukrainian refugees.
Don’t know how the various school levels are physically broken down in all countries, but just the fact that secondary school in Norway consists of two distinct schools creates a more natural point at which to leave, compared to a country like Ireland (at the other end of this particular scale), where lower and upper secondary school both (generally) take place in the same school.
I can answer some of it!
Where I grew up, you had to move to attend VgS (equivalent to high school or trade school, I believe). You might be able to get home on the weekends, but you had to move. Commuting was not an option, period.
Now, let that sink in for a while: Children, youths if we’re generous, have to move away from home, often to live on their own, at the tender age of 15-16. They’re uprooted from the community and people they know, move to a new community without any real connections there. While hormones are raging and they’re insecure and vulnerable, they not only have to go to school, make new friends, and balance school and social life. They also have to be homemakers, budget around their meagre stipends, with varying degrees of support from home. That, of course, leads to a real, magnified class divide:
Resourceful families can take their kids to the new school, acclimatise their children to the city, teach them the necessary skills, and can come by to check on them every so often, supporting them through their education. Renting a room or an apartment in the city might cause some unrest in the monthly budget, but it doesn’t break the bank.
Less resourceful families get less help in that regard, particularly economically. They might not be able to afford to take their kids to get familiar with the city and help them get settled, and might have more than enough to deal with in managing their own lives. Might have to find relatives to live with or other creative solutions to finding the kid a place to stay, and with economical burdens on top of academic, social, and private ones it’s no wonder the children drop out. Kids ought to be allowed to have those extra 2-3 years of unworried youthful life before young adulthood hits them. Ideally, they should have been able to live in a rent-controlled dorm with responsible adults to look after them, to have a better chance of completing their education.
Of course, that’s not to say all kids from resourceful families succeed and ones from less resourceful families drop out, but the decks are certainly stacked that way.
When they drop out they might find a job and manage somewhat well, but those kids should have had a better chance at getting a real education and chasing their dreams, rather than taking a (any) job just to stay alive. With higher requirements for formal education, the ones without it don’t even have a very good shot at getting in on the job market in the first place.
Anecdotally, of my class (9 pupils), only five of us finished VGS, and only two finished higher education.
Even today, Nordland county has the second highest rate of early education leavers, even if the statistics have improved.
It’s also not all bad news: For trades, people have become more aware of other models than the established 2-3 years of school and 2 years of apprenticeship, so they’ve found ways of getting their professional competence formalised.
Trades unlike in US where they force a worthless education upon someone that will never step foot into a university
Comments are closed.