First, context. I am a unionist. I come from a loyalist background, and while I am completely put off loyalist traditions such as the Orange Order and the bonfires because of what they can often represent, and despise bigoted talking heads that are representative in both local and national politics…unionism is my identity, as much as nationalism may be yours. I'd consider myself pretty moderate, and open minded. I welcome discussion and debate.
Which brings me to my point regarding this subreddit. This subreddit is a nationalist echo chamber. There is disdain for unionist voices and opinions here, down voted and muted in favour of nationalist pieces. Unionist figures are mocked and ridiculed (rightly so often!) however it feels that at worst nationalists are criticised, but often instead there is handwringing and whataboutism. I have brought these concerns up with the mods, but there isn't really anything they can do.
So this is my appeal to you, friend from across the community divide. Engage with us. Hear us out. Don't silence us. Demonstrate a tolerance and willingness to share the subreddit with the same grace you wish us to believe you will have if we share this island one day as a United Ireland. Treat us as your kin, rather than interlopers.

by Phoetality

29 comments

  2. >Hard to swallow pills

    r/NorthernIreland is representative of the demographic and constitutional stance shift in the north

  3. Unionism has plenty to offer NI. Unfortunately, the unionist voices that ring loudest are usually DUP/TUV

  5. I can’t speak for everyone here, but I have no issue with a unionist who isn’t bigoted or sectarian. I have a friend or two like this. Mostly what I’ll do is disagree on policy – the actual unionism vs nationalism or whatever’s in between, and what’s best for Ireland.

    However, unionism as a political movement is in huge need of reform if it wants to avoid these stigmas. Surely you must understand it’s hard to detach it as a political movement from the bigotry and sectarianism when these aspects are embraced, often openly, by the political parties who represent unionism. The DUP and TUV are rife with it, and have stoked the flames of many recent conflicts under the guise of “genuine concern”.

    From an external perspective, it kind of looks like anyone who embraces these groups is either quite naive, or wilfully embracing bigotry “for the greater good”.

    I’m sure there are unionists who are dissatisfied with their politicians who do this. But the issues are so prevalent and mainstream that if someone announces themselves as a proud unionist without addressing said topics, it gets me immediately wondering what their opinions on said topics are.

  6. Can you give an example of Unionist opinions that are being silenced or pushed out?

    I am not trying to dismiss you, but it’s hard to engage with vagueness.

  7. Those worthy of ridicule shall receive it, regardless of politics or religion.

    Those who engage in intelligent discourse are always welcome and I will always engage in good faith.

  8. I’m a protestant nationalist and got blocked by some lad because I didn’t refer to northern Ireland as “the occupied six counties” in my comments.

    Point is most people here are moderate and fair, but you’re going to get a few crazies on either side of the tayto-packet divide.

  9. I grew up a unionist and now I’m a nationalist.

    You can change. I don’t see any redeemable qualities in unionism, but I’d like to hear if there are any.

  10. Just an idea, but have you thought about just posting your content anyway? Without worrying about karma? I’m aware that some of my posts will get down-voted, but express it anyway. Most folk absorb content and scroll on without calloused thumbs. Your opinion, regardless, is noted and sent out into the void.

    If you welcome discussion and debate, then seek it out. 90% of the time online discussion and debate descends into combative egotism. In the early days on forums, we called it “flaming”.

    No man is an island. Especially the one you live on.

  11. Well, you are part of Northern Ireland too.

    The issue is that the loudest loyalist voices are… not the best at representing you. The nationalist ones aren’t amazing either, but the loyalist ones are really bad.

    There’s also the fact that NI isn’t doing all that well. Health services are worse than in the rest of the UK, there are less jobs etc so many people don’t understand why loyalists cling to the UK.

    And I think last, but not least, there’s also the fact that more of the youth are nationalists. And they’re online more than those 35+ and that matters on Reddit too.

    Personally, I think some of the points loyalists make are good. Not all of them, and I don’t agree with all, but I can understand their concerns and someone a bit more paranoid about a direct united Ireland is welcome, since we need to think of what is the worst that might happen.

    What do you think, OP?

  13. How exactly does Northern Ireland benefit under British rule? In comparison to the rest of GB we’re second class citizens, so why the need to stay loyal to a King and Country that clearly doesn’t give two shits about us?

  14. Probably because they’re always at it?
    (Saying this as someone from the Shankill)

  15. Wasn’t NI explicitly created to be a unionist echo chamber? The real reason people have such a low tolerance for unionism now is because of loyalists, they’ve dragged your entire cause down and rather than separate the two your leaders have fanned the flames of division.

  17. Maybe every online forum from slugger o toole to twitter to Reddit, on the subject of NI is a nationalist echo chamber or maybe the bulk of NI active online just know that flegs and bonfires and sectarianism is actually a load of nonsense…..

    You appeal for a fair hearing but your politicians even the moderates, do their damnedest to block minor matters such as language rights? Rights which everyone can see is accepted without question in many parts of your “United Kingdom”. Every small change to show societal equality is met with outrage and disorder with no leadership from unionism. That is not right, not fair and it is not even Christian.

    Yesterday we read about Doug Beattie who seems personally like a nice guy but his British army abusers a microcosm of our relationship with GB, regardless of tradition, can you not see how abusive the relationship between GB and Ireland is?

    The politics of Unionism is the acceptance that “we” simply are not good enough and as a result we must outsource governance to those more capable? I find the entire thought offensive. I am good enough so are you my friend and all our neighbours, we all need to rise above the gutter to see that fact.

    There is no earthly Lord in my house and regardless of personal wealth or circumstance no man is above my family, crown or not. And vitally no person is better placed to Govern Ireland than those that live here and that absolutely includes those with a close affinity for GB.

    Traditions can be wrong and need to be capable of being examined and reviewed.

  18. As a Prod Nationalist, the biggest issue is for Unionism is the lack of alternative thinking that would push people to support the Union. As long as they cling to right wing sectarian socially conservative views they will never advance their argument for maintenance of the Union.

  19. You had two interactions on the sub in last few months and in both cases the original offending post was deleted. You’re gonna get dicks everywhere but can’t see a sectarian bias where comments and positions themselves are sectarian.

    As the other bloke said, say something stupid, you’re gonna get roasted.

    That being said, I’ve not seen many sensible loyalist based posts that would ever invite sensible debates.

  20. Spend less time on the internet (this applies to me, you and anyone reading).

    Getting this upset about reddit isn’t a good use of your time.

  21. I grew up Prod but was from a mixed marriage background.

    Only ever seen the hate from one side, and absolutely nothing done about it to sort it out.

    I’m very happy to be Irish, say I’m Irish, speak Irish and will vote for a United Ireland.

    Lived in England for ten years and it only confirmed how I’m just not British, they all saw me as Irish, I gave up arguing and finally realised, yeah, so fuckin wha, I am Irish and I’m tired of not being proud of it.

  22. Reddit as a whole is a pretty leftist space and typically unionist and leftist do not go hand in hand.

  23. Are you saying that you are treated as kin within the union? Even when ye have been used as puppets to get Conservatives into power in Westminster from Carson’s time to the most recent Conservative government.

    It’s so hard to comprehend the sense of loyalty to a nation which couldn’t care less about you.

    Whatever you might think of how ye might be treated in united Ireland, ye would not be looked down upon as a lower class of citizen as ye are currently treated by the British.

    The Irish flag is literally based upon peaceful equality between unionists and nationalists.

  24. When unionism has been the only ideology that had stopped progression in the 6 county’s it makes it hard to not argue against it

  25. I may get downvoted like crazy for this…

    Generally speaking, I feel like staunch unionists hate nationalists, but nationalists are generally just more dismissive and condescending (rather than hateful) towards unionists.

  26. We should get a group of rich nationalists and block this post with frivolous legal arguments rather than engaging

  27. Would you rather we all talk about organising which foreigners we burn out next? Or which LGBT protest we are going to sabotage? Or how terrible the Irish language is? Theres very very little positive to say about the state of Unionism/Loyalism right now. What do you expect?

  28. No, you are just used to the unionist echo chamber. Anyone, regardless of background, can achieve enough empathy, life experience and compassion to realise that the occupation of the north of Ireland is morally and ethically wrong.

    Just as people look at Isreali occupation. Just as they look at nazi occupation. Just as they look at most instances of sectarianism/racially motivated human atrocities and land grabs in history.

  29. You say it’s a nationalist echo chamber but every community poll that ever pops up here has a large contingent being “Others”.

    This post is just Unionists yapping that their ideology is extremely unpopular with everyone in the north outside of Unionists.

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