Tucker and Saagar Enjeti on the Dangerous New Developments in Pam Bondi’s Epstein Cover-Up
I’ll speak for myself. I never thought that I would be offering an apology to Jeffrey Epstein. I think of all the times I’ve maligned that guy. All the times I’m accused him of crimes, of blackmailing people, of trafficking children, to powerful figures around the world on behalf of Global Intel Services. And then I learned yesterday from Attorney General Pam Bondi that’s totally untrue. The guy killed himself after 30 days, 36 days in prison for no reason. He was a billionaire. He had no clients. He’d done nothing wrong other than get like naughty massages 20 years before and the guy killed himself. Another pointless death. And then his best friend, former girlfriend Jane Maxwell, doing 20 years in prison for no crime. They’re no victims. Yes, it’s a victimless crime. Um they’re obviously persecuted by the state. They’re political prisoners. Really, it’s a the Hague should come in and do an investigation. Or we’re watching one of the most systematic government coverups of all time. resonates with me is I don’t want to be lied to. And I specifically don’t want to be lied to by the very people who built careers. And I’m talking here specifically about Cash Patel, Dan Bonino, and many others who now work for the administration who fed Maga and the American people and promised them to get to the bottom of this only to turn their tune immediately upon assuming office, lying before Congress, talking about this is an obvious case of suicide, going on the Joe Rogan podcast and effectively asking for some level of trust that I would I don’t give to any government official. FBI director Cash Patel said, “If I had this information, don’t you think I would release it?” No, I don’t. Because actually your actions now just in the last couple of days only vindicate the idea that this is not only a systematic government cover up at the highest levels not only involving sex trafficking but going all the way up to the top levels of the US intelligence, the Israeli intelligence community implicating powerful people, billionaires here in the United States, former prime ministers of Israel, the prime, you know, our current president, former presidents of the United States. And for them to come out on the very day or I guess the day before that the Israeli prime minister is visiting Washington for the third time this year. What? Why exactly? You know, can we can we go over that? Last time I checked, this is a country do about 52 billion in bilateral trade with equivalan or Singaporean leaders were in Washington for three times in the last 6 months. And to who we give 3.3 billion to, Switzerland, these are all countries I love, by the way. I visited all three uh that I just listed. I love them. Um would I, you know, would they serve? And Israel, I think you went, did you go to school in Israel? That’s right. I did six weeks in Israel. It’s a great country. I like it a lot. But it’s not about that. This is about my country. And so watching this all just get perverted and then used and hijacking our government is just particularly offensive to me. Not only just as an American, but I feel particularly not only deceived by the people like the FBI director and uh the deputy director Dan Bonino, but the attorney general who went on camera after assuming her office on the White House lawn, these are supposed to mean things. And said thousands of victims, we have the client list. We have the flight logs. She held a little press conference, whatever event with so-called influencers in which she gave them the Epstein files, an infamous photo that was released. It turned out that that binder actually had redacted information in it which was already public just to demonstrate how they were turning the South. They’re turning the White House effectively into a performative show and making you know light of the fact that there are hundreds if not thousands of underage victims. And it’s just not the victims. It’s the fact that it extends to the highest levels of the elite, the transatlantic elite and possibly even beyond that. from some of the richest men in our country, presidents of the United States, former prime ministers of Israel. We’re talking here about Bill Gates, Leon Black, Lesley Wexner, the richest and most powerful people in the world, the Nobel Committee, the scientific, I mean, the community, Harvard, MIT, the the tentacles through which this operation had its hands in and stretches all the way back to the 1980s. It is one of the most disgusting intelligence operations I think in United States intelligence history rivaling some of the things you know eventually that led to the death of President Kennedy. And the thing is is around this time is just like Kennedy we all know the truth. We know that this document released by the Trump administration is complete And I guess that maybe just like with the Kennedy assassination they expect us to just get over it in a period of time. And I and I I genuinely think it’s incumbent on anybody who was either supportive of the president, any any United States citizen to say, “No, we demand like absolute and total transparency on this case and particularly of these government officials. Do not use your platform to enrich yourself on these podcast platforms and constantly talk about Epstein and the Epstein files, eventually assume office, change on a dime, and expect us to trust you.” That is not how this works. And in particular in that document, I think it’s one of the most disgusting documents ever released by the United States because it said there was no blackmail. There was no, we’re not releasing this information. Cash Patel has this new line about how we’re not going to revictimize women. Ask the Epstein victims themselves. They have been begging for this information to come to light specifically to implicate the powerful men that victimized them and through which they were, you know, an they were basically used for trafficking purposes to ensnare them in this highlevel US intelligence, Israeli oper uh Israeli intelligence operation probably run in conjunction. And the you know the trail of this entire thing just it it enrages me. It actually enrages me as an American. I don’t think you’re alone. Um, and I do think as someone who voted for the president, campaigned for the president a lot, um, I’m not attacking the president, but I think even people who are fully on board with, you know, the bulk of the MAGA agenda are like, this is this is too much. Actually, I’m saying that with love, and I hope that they’re listening u because I think this threatens to blow up the whole thing. But but let’s just um back up a little bit and just pick at some of the inconsistencies here. So you’re saying that Pam Bondi said on camera, we have a client list on the White House lawn. I’ve seen the client list and then yesterday she’s saying there’s no client list. There’s no client list and there was no systematic blackmail. That actually might be the most preposterous line in the document. But it doesn’t I mean it doesn’t make any sense. So they’ve said that there were thousands of young people in some cases minors underage children um victimiz sexually victimized. Are they saying that Epstein single-handedly had sex with all because actually for whatever it’s worth I don’t think anyone that I I’ve never seen anyone make the claim that Epstein had sex with anybody. Yes, that’s right. Well, a lot of these allegations revolve around like group activities and they around like masseuse and being I mean look the way that Dersowitz and others would claim it is I kept my underwear on and it was all a you know very above the board massage information. And there’s that famous photo of Bill Clinton in the airport terminal with one of these young victim who herself says she was a victim of the Epstein entire machine. So you’re exactly right. It’s like for these thousands of women, were they victimized entirely by Gileain Maxwell and by Jeffrey Epstein? Because by the way, that’s not even what the Galain Maxwell Jeffrey Epstein court documents and other things that we already knew that were in the public information. That’s not what they say. That’s not what the testimony of the victims of these people say. And so again, even this client list thing, and I do think people can go down the rabbit hole too much and think that there is, as you know, you know, there’s no ledger as in CL had sex with so and so and we in, you know, because of that supported Israel. Like that’s not how it works. The term client list itself is misleading. It’s it’s misleading because really what we want is a full list of the victims of the people who flew on the flight logs, but the most important is the money. And I think a lot of people actually miss that in the Epstein story. Jeffrey Epstein came to power largely because he worked at Bear Sterns and effectively was like a high finance money laundering expert. That’s effectively what we can learn from his background. That’s how he came involved with Leon Black. Leon Black is was one of the most powerful men in New York. This is the head of the Apollo group. He paid him $170 million through various shell corporations for tax advice. And when he was caught doing that, he was said actually it wasn’t even useful because all the tax advice was actually in the public domain. What I mean Lesie Wexner in in the 1991, I believe, signed full power of attorney over to Jeffrey Epstein. He was one of the richest men in America. I think he was the richest man in Ohio at that time. Jeffrey Epstein becomes the head of the Wexner Foundation, funnels some $2.5 million to Aud Barack, the former Israeli prime minister. I’m putting these things out there because I want people to know that the money is an integral part of the of the operation. And to the extent that the sex trafficking and all of that is linked, they are fused together because they were used primarily by the intelligence community. Both Epstein was a conduit of highstakes money laundering for things like, you know, not Iran Contra specifically, but let’s say like funneling arms from Israel to Iran. This was also how he met eventually Robert Maxwell and became ins snared with his daughter Keane Maxwell. The money laundering is actually more key to his intelligence from Israel to Iran. Well, well, this was a key part of uh the Maxwell story. Robert Maxwell, this very sketchy character, Glain Maxwell’s father. People focus on the tabloid. That’s actually not all what I’m interested in. What I’m interested in is the fact that he’s this Czechoslovakian uh he’s this Czechoslovakian Orthodox Jew who like escapes from the Nazis. He eventually becomes a highly decorated soldier. uh you know actually I think he won the second highest medal in the UK for his operations during World War II. From that point forward becomes very very enshed with the Zionist community inside of the UK and propping up the newly formed state of Israel. From that point forward he basically serves as a highstakes like almost an entity in of itself. That’s the way that Daryl Cooper has described him is like a sovereign wealth fund almost which with together brokers all kinds of deal cutout deals you know between Israel and Iran and actually Epstein himself when he was just 28 years old met you know flew on a private jet I believe to the Pentagon with somebody who we know is directly linked to these you know previous uh intelligence operations and funneling money and weapons into many of these conflicts. So this stretches back decades and that’s a very very important part of the story. So please just do not tell me that there’s no part of a systematic blackmail campaign. It’s so preposterous and it actually just makes us want it makes me want to tear my hair out. And I guess the only good news is that just like with the Kennedy assassination, we do all know the truth. It’s the Kennedy assassination broke this country. I really believe that. I know you do as well. But it broke something even more fundamental and opened up what they called the credibility gap under the Johnson administration where prior to the 1960s Americans trusted their government. It was actually it was a beautiful thing. I mean it was it was bad in some ways as well. We were taken advantage of by the Dulles brothers and a lot of other horrible things they were doing in the 1950s. But it was beautiful in the sense of social and of civic trust. And there something was broken with that with the Kennedy assassination. And then it was extended of course into the war in Vietnam. And we’ve never been the same since. And all the Trump, you know, the Trump administration elected on the backs of of of a lot of these people who want more transparency in government, saw a lot of this corruption to just turn around and do the same thing. It’s just too much. It’s it’s too much for me and I think it’s too much for a lot of other people. So, we want to brag, but killed himself, I never met Epste, but I mean he, you know, knew everybody. I mean, I will say, I mean, in his, you know, in the defense of people who got caught up in this cuz they went to dinner at Epstein’s, like that George Stephanopoulos, for example, who I disagree with on everything, but like I know George and I I don’t think George is having sex with kids. Like Epstein was, you know, just part of like the social fabric, right? And Trump knew him for for that reason also. But when he killed himself, I remember thinking people were like, “He didn’t kill himself.” I he probably killed himself. You know, he’s in jail or whatever. His brother Mark called me a couple days after he killed himself. And so began this like three-year long conversation with Mark Ebstein and looking into it in in a way I never thought I would. He didn’t kill himself. He was murdered in his cell. And um I think that’s really meaningful. It’s the most secure federal lockup in the United States. How can that happen? It can’t happen without state actors involved. Okay. That’s right. Look at the story that we were told at that time. Part of the information dump here by the administration is some hours of footage. We were told that footage didn’t exist. We were told that this was some guards who were, you know, off duty. They fell asleep. This was and none of it exists and actually, you know, was all part of a screw up and the camera angles wouldn’t even be able to show anything. But that’s why they’re relatively confident that all So, where did this camera footage even come from? Well, the camera footage doesn’t even first of all, it ends before they take his body out. Why can’t we see that? And the angle on it is absurd. But the real question, just not to be pedantic, but the real question is who are the other inmates on that cell block? So no one came in or out of the cell block. I think that’s fair. It was the most secure cell block in that federal lock up in Manhattan. But who were the other inmates? And I went to Department of Prisons, uh, which is part of DOJ, and asked like, “What are their names?” Oh, we can for privacy reasons. Really? These are people who can’t vote or own a firearm. Yes. You know, for the rest of their lives, but somehow they’ve got like a HIPPA law or something around who’s a federal inmate. you. Actually, sorry. It It made me so mad because of course if Epstein was murdered, and it’s very clear that he was, he was murdered by another inmate. That’s right. And we know that a bunch of them were transferred out of that unit right after he died. Who were they? Where are they now? Like, why can’t we get an answer to that question? So, the whole thing that this tape shows he didn’t kill himself is like a joke. But worse than that, it’s a joke that we all get. Like, they’re not fooling anybody. So, I feel like we’re at a dangerous point now. Yeah, I agree. Because the lie is more indic it’s not the lie at this point is not even part of trying to convince any of this is true. The lie is a signal to everybody else involved in the scheme that to the to the ultimate ends the United States government will go to protect all of you. And that’s the for that smart purpose. Can you say that again? Okay. So it’s I’m sorry. It’s a signal. The lie is not for you and me. The lie is for those implicated to say no matter what we will protect you. And then we have to start asking the question why as in what is the purpose of this entire thing? Why does it matter that it happens right before the Israeli prime minister comes to Washington for the third time? As you said, what is the linkage here between those two? And the linkage is the fact that even a you know even a surface level view of Jeffrey Epstein of the case of the entire public record reveals Alex Acasta who said he belonged to intelligence. He said that the person who was responsible for the sweetheart 13-month deal. Alex Aosta who was the US attorney said I believe he testified this under in sworn testimony said I was told he belonged to intelligence. was a key part of why he the charges were dropped against him and you know he got some sweetheart Palm Beach County jail situation where he was allowed to leave on the weekends and why even though I know you’ll forgive George but I actually won’t I don’t have dinner with pedophiles. I’m not sure about you. Um I’m generally aware of the people who I am around and if I can get invited to someone’s house I do cursory Google searches. That’s generally what you know I think that’s normal. I I don’t want to be in the presence of people who I think are like genuinely evil. That’s that’s what I so for me I actually can’t forgive many of the media figures and the uh you know the presidents people like Bill Clinton Kevin Spate all these other high-profile figures specifically because it was all out in the public record and then in particular all of these highflying Wall Street financeers and Deutsche Bank remember they were fined I think it was the New York financial services I read that entire report it’s one of the most extraordinary reports I’ve ever seen because they specifically talk about how the bank ignored almost every single one of its own procedures that it would apply to any other client and that at the highest levels and remember I think is the Barlay’s CEO he’s already been in trouble for this for covering up much of this in one of the largest financial institutions in the entire world you know for example Tucker if you and I keep going to the bank and withdrawing $9,900 in cash and we do it for a couple of weeks our banking institutions are supposed to call you know both the IRS and the DOJ and say something is going on And they will and they will ex and they should right that is what this is done for a reason. He did this for years and the classification that they the bank accepted was it was just for tips. This is this is what I mean about the highest level of the cover up and what the what the cover up means for the system itself. And something you and I were talking about recently is I really believe here that and I’ve never believed it more that in a sense, you know, for elected government and for all the benefits of our republic and of representation that elites actually have always mattered and of course they’re the ones who run. They’re the ones responsible for channeling public energy. This is the way that we’re set up into law, into policy, etc. And so this lie was a signal to the elites. It was a signal to Versailles. was a signal to the court that the court will always be protected no matter what. And it’s enraging at a moment when the court has never been more reviled by the public. It’s not just a spit in the face of the public. It really is like a late, you know, it’s the late 1700s kind of signal to the court that we will protect this institution no matter what. And it’s really a question for the rest of us as if we’re going to continue to put up with this. I wonder what our recourse is. None of us is paying very close attention during the summer. The news cycle calms down. when the Epstein thing first happened when he died. Um and I I was I’ll plead ignorance and lack of interest. I was like distracted. There’s a lot of stuff going on. I get a call from someone I know um who I like who’s a like true hardcore neocon many of whom I liked personally um who’s writing a book on epste two two people I know together wrote this book on epste I don’t want to name them I don’t want to be mean or anything but they’re like can we come on your show we want we’ve written a book on epste and this whole scandal so I read the book and it’s very sophisticated and it’s like epste but the epste story is really limited to epste this bad guy who died And there’s no, you know, there’s no evidence it was part of anything bigger that had anything to do with other countries. And they come on my show and I interview them and they’re like, “No, you know, yeah, there’s all this stuff mysteries. We couldn’t get to the bottom of it, but you know, Epstein’s really, really bad.” And I looking back I’m like, “That was all like that was by design.” Yes. Right. It was like, “Wow, we’re exposed here and we need to, you know, we need to like throw we need a warrant commission.” Actually, no, you’re right. Yeah, except a real one. At this time, it didn’t work because, you know, Vanity Fair to its great credit um wrote a couple of pieces, then they stopped covering it, I noticed. But they kind of got to the Wexner thing. Who’s this Wexner guy? What is this? And what ties do these guys have to foreign intel services? Yes. Which were deep. I mean, I I think Barack like lived at Jeffrey Epstein’s place. On his plane 30 times, lived often at his uh his his townhouse in Manhattan. At one time, the largest residence in the history of New York City, transferred to him by deed by Lesie Wexner. For what purpose? We have no idea. He invested in Aud Barack’s defense intelligence startup. And I think the defense intelligence part there may be even as interesting as the fact that it’s a former Israeli prime minister and former uh former head of Israeli military intelligence. I mean we are this is what I’m saying about the money. The money is so important to the story because we already have you know documented cases of CIA, Israeli and others buying up private corporations which pose as let’s say cyber security firms that sell to the government or other governments and use those as back doors. So look, if you’re Aude Barack, you’ve probably met, you know, some of the richest people on the planet. Why do you need, you know, these investments from Jeffrey Epstein of all people, a tax advisor to the super rich? What did Bill Gates get from his repeated involvement with Jeffrey Epstein? Why did Melinda Gates, you know, divorce Bill Gates um after years and obvious knowledge of his philandering in the past? Are we really to believe it’s about philandering, you know, from 20 years ago, which was well known apparently within Microsoft? No. It’s because she probably started to get a little aware or perhaps there was something else going on there as to the extent of what that relationship was. And you know, the fact is is even from public reporting, we’re told that Jeffrey Epstein was seen by Gates as the conduit to win the Nobel Peace Prize. How? For what purpose? How does he have all of these ends with the highest level of the intelligence or the scientific community? And then of course I mean it doesn’t take a genius to see the intertwinment between the scientific community the academic research industrial complex and the intelligence community. So all of these pieces this is the unfortunate part and you know even returning like you said to him being killed himself. Let’s or him allegedly killing himself. Let’s not forget Michael Boden who I think is a very authoritative figure. You know he reviewed all of the documents the autopsy etc. He said this is not a case of suicide. Talk to him about it. Yes. And it’s it’s like let’s remember I mean he’s one of the most you know what probably the most famous forensic uh like forensologist yeah pathologist in in America and his um research has been very or his you know diagnosis has been very important in a lot of other previous cases which turned out to be true and so when he looks at this and we have that evidence when we have the cover up here now at the government I’m just I’m appalled you know that that this is happening at the highest level but my only conclusion ision is just a return is it’s just a signal to the court is don’t worry about it we’ve got you it doesn’t the people don’t matter in this case man I think this for a bunch of reasons it’s so obvious it is salacious people have followed it for years the president promised to reveal the truth about this bambi as you said went on television said we have the truth and we’re going to give it to you yes um I think this is kind of I think this is a big deal it’s a really big deal it’s bigger I Well, I hope so too, actually. So, let’s just assess this logically. They’re covering up the DOJ, the current DOJ under Pam Bondi is covering up crimes, very serious crimes by their own description. Why are they doing that? Yeah. So, there really only two potential explanations that I can think of, maybe you’ve got another. The first is that Trump is involved, that, you know, Trump is on the list, that they’ve got tape of Trump doing something awful. Um, I don’t believe that for two reasons. One, I’ve talked to Trump about it a lot. Um, and I I know him. He’s not that, you know, for whatever his sins, I don’t think he’s that guy. Actually, I don’t think he likes creepy sex stuff. That’s just my view. But moreover, but more I think convincing is that this is all information that the Biden administration had. And if there was evidence that Trump had been involved in illegal sexual activity, you you think the people who made up Russia gate wouldn’t have leaked it? Come on now. So the only other explanation that I can think of, again, maybe you’ve got another, is that intel services are at the very center of this story, US and Israeli, and they’re being protected. I think that seems like the most the most obvious. They have a history of this. There have been multiple documented cases of pedophilia inside of the CIA perpetrated by CIA officers documented that in many of those I believe over a dozen cases, this was a BuzzFeed news piece years back where the CIA specifically did not want to prosecute those individuals in federal court for fear that they would reveal sources and methods if they were pulled into open court and they basically just made it go away. The only time they actually prosecuted somebody um for child pornography was whenever he had already being prosecuted for mishandling classified information. Well, when they want to crush you, they put kitty porn in your computer. Why? I don’t have a computer. No one. If you’re an important person, you should be careful. No computer in my house. This is an important thing, though, is that we already have documented cases of them covering this up. I believe the CIA inspector general, I forget the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of, “You wouldn’t even believe the amount of child porn, you know, that I’ve seen while I’m on this job.” I mean, these are depraved. Look, I mean, it’s a large organization, a small percentage of the US, you know, we can make that argument. I think there is like something pathological, you know, kind of in the minds of the people who excel in this type of environment. Of course, it’s based on lying. Yes. And lying is the gateway drug to every other sin. Of course, and the veil of secrecy that protects CIA up to and including its budget, which we can know, makes all kinds of really evil behavior possible. In fact, it inspires it. If if you felt if you had the cloak of invisibility, would that improve or degrade your behavior? Yes. Everyone knows everyone knows the answer to that. Of course, you’d be like, I’m invisible. At some point, you’re going to have to go up and go like, you know, like you couldn’t Well, and they see that doesn’t make you a better person. they see their own colleagues getting away with it and it’s a permission structure and so look I mean that’s a small case but it just shows us that it’s obvious and it’s something that has been in multiple intelligence communities I’ve been ins snared in this again I highly recommend Daryl Cooper’s episode on the entire Epstein saga cuz I didn’t know about this case in Am I allowed to listen to that I was informed incredibly informed by Markin that he was a Holocaust denier. Oh, I mean words words are supposed to have meaning, you know. And uh can I ask about the neocons who are I mean keep in mind that it was Jay Lefowitz who’s Bill Crystal’s lawyer who represented the Weekly Standard when I worked there. Um who was an Epstein lawyer. Yeah. And so like where is Mark Leven on Epstein? I noticed that all these very valuable people who do not hesitate before imposing their opinions on the rest of us suddenly don’t have very strong opinions about Epste. What is that? Every accusation is actually an admission. And so, but why is Mark Leven covering for Epstein? That’s weird. That’s a great question. And uh in particular when he’s going to accuse you of being funded by the Qatari government. Um if only, right, that’s what I mean about the accusation is the admission government. the accusation you know they could concoct all these wild schemes about how Steve Wickoff or me or you or anybody else is funded by the state of Qar when in reality I mean as you know it’s like we’re really you guys want to talk about foreign funding like let’s go let’s take a look at your C3s and uh release release all of the data I will be happy to take a look at it for you especially I found out last night at dinner you went to high school in yes I did yeah they love to use that one I went to high school my last year American school of Doha by the way I don’t think the Qatar government likes me very much because I’ve talked quite a bit about how a lot of migrant laborers are abused there. But of course, they still find that that’s tenuous connection is some sort of, you know, admission. Supposedly, I’m funded. The only people who fund me are my business and the people who are previous subscribers, which is great. And uh and that’s part of the reason I can speak the way that I am. I I literally dare them to disclose their donors and those ties to the Israeli government and the Israel lobby. I dare them to do it and they never will or any of the other foreign governments that directly propped them up. And this brings us to Epstein. Why, you know, the Epstein Wii Wexner Foundation under Jeffrey Epste paid Aud Barack $2.3 million to write two papers. I believe he did not even finish the second one. This is a nonprofit funnel, you know, of money. Really? What’s going on with that? Can I get that? Yeah. Can I That sounds like a great gig. You know, for for anybody out there who’s struggling with their bills, money is easy. Okay. whenever you’re willing to engage in a lot of scary sketchy behavior. And this is a pattern I’ve noticed all across Washington is that they ignore strategically the Epstein story because it’s inconvenient. And it’s not or not even really inconvenient. I think it’s just so deeply inshed here. And I just bring it back to Alex Acasta. He told us the truth once, which was or not us, he told them the truth once in sworn testimony. It he belonged to intelligence. And we’ve never I mean with Maxwell who we have all of these documented ties to Mossad and to the intelligence community and all these sketchy dealings and then his daughter working with Epstein. We have the Wexner Foundation which we know is highly involved in Zionist interests here in the United States of America. We have Epstein as well who’s been linked to some of these organizations or at least through funding money via the Wexner Foundation. We know about his past, you know, with money laundering for what purpose? That is the crux of the intelligence community’s ability to move things around and to pay for offthe-books, extremely offthe-books activity. It traces back to the lying as you said. That’s part of why we can’t have the truth around. You probably and restore health to our international relations where we have allies hopefully many more than we currently have. We don’t have enough allies in my opinion. I’m hardly in the wrong allies. We’re the wrong allies, but the number is dwindling. So it’s right only a couple real allies left and I’m not even sure they’re allies but whatever. But why couldn’t you have at least conceptually a situation where you know you act in your own interest and to the extent that other countries share that interest. There’s a a union set of interests you ally with them. You know to transactionally in other words we’re we’re both for we both want to build an oil pipeline somewhere. We both want this shipping lane open or we’re both mad at this other country. You know it’s like why couldn’t you have that? It’s so difficult. I mean, that’s why I mentioned Israel previously, an example. I think it’s really important. I mean, if you were to listen to Fox News, you would think that this is the greatest juggernaut economy in the history of the world. I mean, I had Chat GPT do a mathematical analysis and I said, “Give me five countries that best resemble the US-Israel trading relationship.” And it was Singapore, you know, countries like Singapore, Chile, and Switzerland. And I love like I I love those countries. I have I love those places, frankly. I think Singapore has a better, you know, if we’re talking about grand strategy and all that of the list, that would put that one higher than any of the rest. But we don’t talk about this in the terms of actual transaction because then people might actually start to ask a lot of questions. I mean, I remember this with Ukraine. I was like, we barely do bilateral trade with this country. It’s one of the most insignificant countries in all of Europe to the US trading relationship. We can talk at, you know, the the way they they blow they blow up the Israel relationship. Israel does our dirty work for us in the US. And I’m like, well, are they doing our dirty work or are they doing their own dirty work and then basically passing the buck and the bill onto the United States? Exactly. And so then it comes down to all these questions like you said of national interest and even in the the exception that we make for this country is just so unbelievable. I mean, let’s take the case of Jonathan Pard who’s one of the biggest traitors in the history of the United States for passing classified information on to the Israeli government. They were caught out in the open. Prime Minister Netanyahu used to visit our soil and actively campaign and urge our presidents of the United States to pardon Jonathan Pard for betraying our country to his country. Do you have any idea what they did with that classified information, those secrets? Well, uh uh I actually have no idea, but what I do remember they gave them to the Soviet Union. Oh, that’s right. That’s right. And this was during this was in the ‘ 80s during the Cold War and 1985. It was 85. I remember it well. I lived in Washington. My dad worked for the government and that was a you know that was a very serious whatever you think of the cold war in retrospect like at the time the full focus of the US government was focused you know was in opposition to the Soviets and the the Israelis gave a lot of that class of information from the US Navy to the Soviet government in exchange for allowing refusnix um you know Jewish Soviet citizens to move to Israel which I’m totally for. I mean I’m glad that they got out. I’m glad that they got out of of the Soviet Union and made it Israel. That’s I’m That’s great. But they took our secrets and gave them to our main enemy, our really only global enemy. What? Yeah. And then and have the audacity Well, then how can you have a relationship after that? Yeah. And have the audacity to come to our country and to lobby in seriousness to the presidents to visit this man in prison, to grant him Israeli citizenship, to grant him basically the moment he’s on parole, he immediately moves to Israel. He received a hero’s welcome and it remains there to this day. I mean, we would not allow that for anyone. This is not a healthy relationship. This is not a healthy relationship. Exactly. And that’s an important thing for Americans to understand. One of the many tragic byproducts is I think it’s destroying the right. Mhm. And I say that as someone who’s been on the right my whole life and my whole life I’ve been on the right and I really sort of believe in the basic ideas and I’m not I’m not a liberal that’s for sure. In fact, I’m way more conservative than Mark Leven, that’s for sure. But it’s like the the problem is the promise of MAGA is America first and the contradiction is just too obvious. You can’t, you know, if you’re if you’re Joe Biden and you’re, you know, scenile and it’s being run by a bunch of sinister shadowy figures in the background and you do something like this, it’s like, of course they’re doing it. But if you get up and you say, we’re going to restore greatness to this country. We’re going to do it by putting our own interest first. That’s what every country does. That’s kind of natural. It’s organic. And then you put the interest of a country of 9 million people above your own in a way that’s just insulting. Yes. People can’t deal with that. Like their brains start to explode. And I think this is blowing up the coalition. I hope I’m wrong. I I support the coalition. All these people are like, “You’re not MAGA. Really? Did you campaign for Trump?” Right. Please. That’s right. I mean, please, you know, I’m liberal. Okay. But I’m so I worry about that. I feel like that’s happening to you. I think you should be worried about it. And uh well look we can parse these things at a variety of levels. So the there’s you said MAGA and I think that’s important. I think the vast majority of people who are selfidentified as MAGA they supported the Iran strikes and they generally support President Trump and they have a lot of trust in the man. What I keep trying to tell people is uh people are saying oh there’s a split in the MAG. But you said it correctly the right and I would look at the right as the coalition that delivered Donald Trump the first popular vote victory since 2004. The margin of anti-war support for Donald Trump is his entire electoral margin in the state of Michigan. The entire electoral margin in the state of Michigan. And I think that his ability to win Michigan twice now, three in three races is pretty damn important for looking at the so-called realignment of the white working class and of this new coalition. Let’s also look I actually on our show our producer went to the Bronx AOC’s district and interviewed people who were AOC Trump voters and the number one reason that we got from them was war. It was it was the promise to bring an end to the war both in Israel and Gaza and in Ukraine because there is something visceral. Let’s say that you live in the Bronx and you’re having problems in your neighborhood and watching these countries get tens of billions of dollars. Three carrier strike groups of the United States of America were present in the Middle East specifically to back up Israel during the 12-day war. I, you know, you asked Ted Cruz a very important question. Do you know how much that costs? I looked it up. You know, it’s actually public information. It’s about a quarter, it’s I believe it’s like a quarter billion dollar per group per month for deployment. That was just for the deployment. This the the April operation separate from weapons. seven from all the and by the number which they will never release is in the billions of dollars and then let’s take opportunity costs we basically used up you know a massive stockpile of US interceptors which are critical for our bases in Qatar or for everywhere else around the world on behalf of this foreign nation which we were told repeatedly the reason we give it 3.3 billion a year was so they can defend themselves well if they can defend themselves then why did it take the full deployment of the US empire fire to basically shield it. And even then, in terms of it shielding, as you I mean, I’m sure you felt the same way. I’ve been to Tel Aviv. Watching that city get rocked by rockets was a shocking experience. That was not what we were I hated it, too. I’ve been there. It’s a beautiful city. The people there are great. And to watch their cities, I mean, that’s some London level, you know, photography from World War II. And so, the fact that that happened and that also, by the way, we just increased the defense budget to $1 trillion. For what purpose? I can’t exactly tell you because even with that money all spent in the past, it doesn’t seem that we’re all that competent at building interceptors, at ammunition. Russia, I believe, has a a defense budget like more than a what is it one quarter or something like that of the United States produces like more ammunition than all of NATO combined. How do these things happen? Right? So, we have rife for corruption. The point is is that MAGA and the right, let’s say the non-MAGA rightight, people who voted for Donald Trump in good faith on a variety of good promises. I think for those people and especially younger Americans, there is a visceral disgust at watching the level of tension and obsession over this foreign nation. And it’s particularly gling because we have people like Ted Cruz who say, “Why are you obsessed with Israel?” And it’s like, what did I just describe here about this? calling you an anti called me an anti-semite like 10 minutes in. It’s disgusting. liberals do. It’s so exactly the woke, right? I mean that it’s like it’s it’s bewildering and it’s dishonesty. I’m not engaging. I’m off the internet. I I give up. But um but it’s so revealing. It’s like, wait, I just voted against this. I voted against not just the argument, but the style of argument of the left, which is to not engage with the points that you make at all to to lie past them, ignore them, and instead attack your motive and your character. You’re a racist. You know, you’re getting paid by Russia. We moved seamlessly from that to like Mark Levvin who saying the same exact same thing. You’re a racist, you’re anti-semite. You’re hanging around with Holocaust den what you’re paid by a foreign country Qatar, which I still find hilarious. Um, for the record, of course, I’ve never taken a dollar from anybody. Um, I don’t even have investors, but whatever it but it’s go to motive rather than rather than engage with what you said. I saw this all coming a mile away. You did? Yeah. Because I’m heartbroken to see it. Well, well, you should be. This why you’ve been successful, cuz you’re smart. Well, I mean, I’ve taken a lot of It’s caused me a lot of personal problems. I can tell you that. But I remember I believe it was uh right after October 7th, Bill Aman and a lot of other prominent Wall Street financeers who are very pro-Israel. Bill Aman’s done a lot for our economy. Sorry. Oh, that’s right. That’s right. I forgot about that. I’m talking down publicly traded corporations and then shorting them. Herbal life capitalism. How are investors doing? I would just ask people to go and take a look at those books, but whatever. Um, let’s take a look at Aman. Very patriotic guy who’s done a lot for this country. So, keep that in mind. Okay. Um, well, this patriotic American and a lot of these other pro-Israel billionaires were literally compiling lists of students who were uh camp who were protesting the Israeli government’s response to October 7th. Many of these were American citizens. Compiling lists and basically saying, “Don’t ever hire these people.” and circulating them around the highest levels of Wall Street finance of technology getting people fired from uh law firms that they had just because they criticized America because they criticized Israel and what America yes that’s an important question but what I noticed and I said this at the time is for all of these people it is now obvious that they never were really opposed to DEI of course what they wanted they paid for it yes what they Yeah that’s a great point what they wanted was they want their interest group Zionism in particular in support of the Israeli government to be included within the DEI regime and that was a very important point because eventually that became fused somehow with MAGA and that’s how explains a huge level of a lot of very high-profile very very rich people in technology industry and in finance who supported the Trump administration and the promise effectively that has now been delivered is that by using this newly crafted like DEI style regime which basically uses the state and the police state as effectively a force for a political party in Israel. That’s another thing that I love when you say this as well. It’s not about even Israel at this point. We’re talking about ludnic interests in the United States of America. 30% of the vote who is under investigation for taking money from who? Qatar, right? It’s it’s it’s it’s amazing. He’s literally fired the head of his own FBI for bribery allegations from Qatari money in his government and has the gall to have his, you know, interest groups here in America accuse people like you and me of taking money from the very same government that he’s been credibly accused of taking. Now, listen, I don’t know. You know, Trump says he’s innocent or whatever. I believe it I would say it is cheeky and to bring it back I guess is what you said is about America and the fact is is that we’re watching the weaponization largely backed by a lot of these people who have hijacked I think a large part of the American maybe they didn’t hijack it maybe I’m the idiot right I could be the idiot for believing some of these things why did I read Christopher Caldwell’s book and u listen to Christopher Rufo and others about the civil rights regime and all of this criticism correct ally of Ibrahim Kendi and the Department of Anti-Racism and the enshrinment of DEI and the Civil Rights Administration just to watch it get turned around and again not even be used against people who are anti-American, but people who are supporting a boycott of a foreign nation, a country here now where students could burn an American flag and be fined. but if they protest Israel could be liable for de e either deportation if they’re not a citizen or denied federal grant funding. The current Trump administration is suing using the civil rights title six uh title six of the civil rights act Harvard University for not protecting Jewish students under an the indifferent standard. Now that same standard was used for some of the worst excesses in the 1970s and others of the civil rights. These are things we’re supposed to be against. This is DEI, you know, run a muk and yet we’re watching this happen in our own government. And I don’t see, you know, there’s so many people Ben Shapi bias against Jewish students at Harvard. Oh, no. Underreented. Not last time I checked. I mean, I I guess what I object to um is lying, of course, above all, but also I object to these kinds of identity politics. Like I thought the whole point was we’re Americans by citizenship. Yes, citizenship matters as it did in Rome. I mean, it did. Paul’s on trial in Rome and he’s like, “Hey, I’m a Roman citizen.” They’re like, “Whoa.” They back right off cuz like that really meant something and should be. It should mean something, I think. And they’re continuing in this weird leftist frame where certain people have more rights than other people. That’s right. And that’s that’s what we’re watching. I I just couldn’t object to that more. And every American should. And look, you may not like these people. I probably wouldn’t get along with a lot of these people. But let’s sit here and talk about Harvard, like you said. I mean, to watch literally, it’s been it’s been 10 years ago. I was sitting with my friends in the Daily Caller office, which you were very kind to hire me into, and we were watching Ben Shapiro humiliate Trigglypuff, right? We were watching leftist students get triggered and cry when Ben Shapiro would visit campus, and we thought it was hilarious. 10 years later, I watch students literally crying at a podium with the House of Representatives Speaker Mike Johnson next to them talking about how I didn’t feel safe while I was on campus. And it’s like, well, why didn’t you feel safe? Because people were sl shouting slogans again protesting a foreign government. Now, that’s actually a lot more about the psychology of you. But regardless, I mean, did we not live through a decade of snowflake and your feelings? Because I I was there for that. And I I’m not going to sit here and watch people who made millions of dollars, Shapiro and Dave Rubin and all these other people making fun of student leftist students only to co-opt the same level of identity politics. And like you said about Harvard, okay, like this is important. What is the problem with Harvard? To me, the problem of Harvard is it took our most elite instit Harvard is, you know, the whole Ivy League, our most elite students, it crippled them with debt. And 41% of graduates now work in finance, consulting, and tech. Okay? some of the worst industries that are directly extractive of the American consumer basically getting rich on their backs addicting them to you know crippling financial products technology uh consult I don’t even know what a lot of people in consulting do apparently they make a lot of money doing it is that a productive industry for our country and then same Harvard University admitted the same actually less students in the class of 2023 than it did in 1981 the US population has grown 110 million since that point now why do they do that it’s for ultra exclusivity. It’s to jack up, you know, prices for their tuition. They admitted fewer students in 81 than in 81. And the US population has grown 110 million since that point. Has their u administrative staff grown? Oh, of course. And uh but but actually you’re not even asking the right question. What about their endowment fund? They’re basically a private equity firm with a small education department. And you know this, they lobby against the endowment tax through Congress. The endowment tax says, “Hey, increase your student body size relative to your endowment, and you don’t have to pay any tax.” But they don’t do that because it’s all about artificial constraints, saddling these kids up with debt, basically taking the best and brightest of the United States of America and turning them into cogs of the man of managerial capitalism. That is not the Harvard University of the, you know, the early, let’s say, the World War II period. That is not the MIT. This they’re all doing the same thing. Those universities were our crown jewel and got government funding from them so that they could set up and go work in industries that were productive and beneficial to our country. That’s my current critique of Harvard. I think that’s one most Americans would agree with. I think that’s my critique of higher education in general. It’s not the Middle Eastern Studies Department. Okay. It’s not suing them under the Civil Rights Act. And to just to watch this weaponization right now, you know, by pampons, it’s such a lie. Like it is a lie. I mean, if you really want to play like the demographics game and who’s getting shafted and like, well, who gets into Harvard actually? Let’s see. Let’s see the numbers and does that reflect the US population. In fact, let’s get even radical on the subject. Let’s measure it against IQ tests. Yeah. No, no, I’m ser qualified to go to Okay, great. So, how about let’s you use SAT scores as a proxy for IQ. Is Harvard letting in the smartest people? No. In fact, there is a concerted effort right now to drop or abandon SAT or any other qual or quantitative measure specifically, you know, to enshrine more of this DEI style regime. So, who’s actually getting discriminated against? Exactly. And and so then it’s too much though. Like I don’t even want to have that convers I know the answer cuz I know the numbers which I’m not going to repeat here but um cuz I don’t want to add to the identity politics stuff cuz I I think it’s a dead end. That’s not what we’re about. I don’t want to be about that. We want to live in a more equitable country toward it. But the problem is when you lie that aggressively and you use my government to do it and all of its armed institutions to do it, then you force me. You you’re you’re making people radical stuff. Yes. And they should be. I mean, I don’t want radicalism, but they’re forcing when the DOJ when the Congress passes 22 anti-semitism resolutions in the last few years, and there’s still a lot of bias in America, you know, uh, and there were still a lot of problems in America that are totally unressed and they’re getting worse. You turn people radical. That’s I I’m worried about that. One of those resolutions they passed through the house actually conflated anti-semitism with anti-ionism which is you know I mean they’re literally saying it is anti-semit anti-semitic as in it is a crime to criticize a foreign country a foreign country or even an ideology which believes in the existence of a foreign country. Why are they doing this? Well I mean look it’s bonkers man it’s bonkers. It’s beyond bonkers. And I wish money were the answer. I’m I’m not saying it isn’t just a critical part of it. It is a part of just this propagandistic campaign to convince that this is our greatest ally that actually we would die before we would let any of them die. And a lot of it is uh enshrined unfortunately um in in like a a bastardization of Christian and rabbitical theology as Ted Cruz revealed. I mean, actually, what really revealed to me was he didn’t even really know what he was saying when he was quoting and but he was taught it, but that’s a legitimate belief. I mean, that’s in the Bible, right? That’s how we end up with Brian Mass wearing the uniform of a foreign country in my Congress. And that that’s what offends me more than anything is uh the only uniform in my opinion that a United States Congress person should ever wear is that of the United States of America. Well, yeah. And and I would say to the um you know to to MAGA voters, this is the program we voted for. The one that puts our country where we were born at the center of the conversation at the top of the priority list. Yeah. So those are the rules. So like anyway, I where does this I’m worried that the contradictions are too obvious. The lies are too transparent. It’s this is too insulting. You can’t I can’t even deal with it. I feel like I’m the least radical person I know. I just I’m happy to not talk about certain subjects just so we can all get along. I’m a wasp in the end. I don’t want conflict. Okay. I know everyone thinks I’m like I don’t hate conflict actually, but they’re forcing this on all of us. And I feel like the system is breaking as a result. Yeah. I mean, do you feel that? I do. And uh the reason I mean it’s it’s a I don’t think Markx actually said it, but that you know in accelerationism it’s about heightening the contradictions. That’s a marxian theory and in a way like I do think that that’s what they’re doing to all of us is they’re forcing people who are sympathetic who want to see our country first who re reject a lot of the premises of the left fought spent a decade of our lives in my case you spent multiple decades of your life fighting against many of these forces which we found repulsive which we blame for the destruction of our country and then watching that get hijacked and again maybe I’m the fool there were there was plenty of evidence it could go this way. I didn’t think it would. I didn’t think in particular it would go this far, but it’s one of those where the breaking is happening at a voter level and in particular in the platform that you and I are speaking right now. I mean, as you know, I mean, I began my career by just going on Fox News. It’s how I got trained in television. Obviously, you started and you’ve been on all these platforms. We could not even have this conversation uh I would say 10 years ago. I I don’t think that the distribution and the audience and just the entire network that enables this possibility was there, but it’s been felt at a deep level in the way that Oliver Stone’s JFK film released something in America in 1991. It’s always been inside of us, but now we have the voice, we have the words. Uh, but next is the tools. And a lot of people thought we had that tools with this. Can we just pause right now? I So, I should just say you alluded to it. you you worked for me, not directly, but for a company that uh that I uh helped start and then at like a really young age, you decided to p you were one of the very first people I knew personally decided to punch out and go independent. Um because you had this really clear and it turned out correct view that the two-party system well there are differences between the parties but fundamentally they were aligned on the big issues and that a lot of voters didn’t agree with their position on the big issues mostly the economy and war and you kind of moved out into this independent media world at what age? I was 28 I guess 28 years old. So I if you don’t mind if it’s not too embarrassing because you told me I asked you a bunch of very specific questions about it last night cuz I’m in that business. I’m interested. What h like how you you leave the Daily Caller, you go on Fox a lot. You’re like a young pundit or whatever. So embarrassing. I did I did it too. I know. It’s so embarrassing. Um and then you decide to go independent. What happened? Like can you just give us that brief story because I think it says a lot about the moment. Well, I owe a lot to the organization you started and to uh Jeffrey Ingresol, to Vince, to Neil Patel and all of these guys. And the reason why is they put me in the position that made me have this realization. And what it was is being a White House correspondent. And what I discovered as being a White House correspondent, I mean, I don’t want to toot my own horn. I think I was good at it. I interviewed Trump four times in two years. I asked se, you know, multiple questions for the record. Uh, multiple different foreign leaders, you know, got stories, scoops, etc. But what I came to understand in the White House briefing room is I would watch. So for people who don’t understand, in the front row is all the networks, the major networks run by the White House correspondents association, which is a cartel, a non-governmental cartel, which runs the entire I could get into that later if we would like, but I would watch every single person from the network ask some version of the same question, which was about Robert Mueller at the time. And I said, “No one gives a about Robert Mueller.” And I would always ask a question not about that. What I came to understand was that they were actually all performing for themselves. And what I really came to understand eventually was that the entire mainstream media is about performing for each other for social and for career purposes. But even more broadly is that the mainstream media is a trade publication and it’s a trade publication for people in Washington and for people in power. There is a boomer legacy element to this which obviously exists but broadly it’s not actually about informing the people. In fact, you know, in terms of the journalism that I did, I tried to always ask questions I thought were relevant to the actual voters, but I didn’t realize how counter that was to the entire philosophy of a lot of the people who actually work and cover the media professionally. Then I came to see that Fox, CNN, MSNBC are all vital parts of this machine. It’s all part of a machine where Washington as the imperial capital speaks to each other. They’re conduits for information which is relevant only to an individual node within the nexus. The voter did not matter in that equation. So what I decided to do is I had this opportunity to go to the Hill currently the hill.com and co-host this show with currently my co-host Crystal Ball. And what her and I really bonded over, remember the first segment we really bonded over was just about the opioid crisis. And I was like, I think that this is one of the most underressed issues in America. I think it’s lip service, you know, at the White House and others. Nobody’s really doing anything about it. Deaths of despair. Our life expectancy at that time was going down. And so we just, you know, that’s that was kind of the evolution, like you said, of realizing that where the two parties agree and the media in particular focuses on is really the exact opposite of where most people are. If you spend a lot of your time with people who are not political, they don’t care about Robert Mueller. Uh they don’t particularly care about most of the scandals in Washington of the day. They’re like, “Hey, my mortgage is really expensive. Uh my kids college uh really, if I was lucky enough to save for 529, the inflation has gotten so out of control. I can’t do that. I’m really worried about the loan that my child is taking out. My uh one of my friends kids recently died of a drug overdose. These are the things that animate, you know, the kitchen table and about the concern and the feeling that our country is being taken away from me. The southern border and uh it’s not just a feeling of there’s uncontrolled chaos at the border. There’s a feeling of the collapse of social cohesion in our country. All of us can feel it. If you go to another country like Switzerland or Japan with controlled immigration, you will realize how radical it is actually. And that was those are both very radicalizing experiences for me. But I just returned to the point of why I wanted to go independent fundamentally is I wanted to cover the news in a way that I felt was actually applicable to the lives of everyday people. And I noticed a burgeoning movement on YouTube and in podcasts where this distribution platform basically allowed me to talk as long as I want to in the way that I am with you. And I mean the most frustrating moments in my career, 24 years old, young embarrassing pundit is being invited on Fox News at 11:55 p.m. for a threeperson conversation about nationalism. And I got to speak for maybe 45 seconds. I can’t articulate all my thoughts on that subject and they’re actually really important. And you know, that’s where the fugazi element of all of that, it became too much and I just felt so much more free. And by the way, as you know, um, at that time, everybody told me not to do it. They’re like, “What are you doing? You’ve got your career set. You’re a White House correspondent. You can go work at any of these other company.” You know, a lot of other companies were trying to recruit me at that time. They said, “You’re an idiot for going to this unproven concept. You don’t know if it’s going to work.” And and it was, I mean, the greatest bet, I guess, of my life because we took this small channel, Crystal and I, of some 6,000. I think we had 100,000 subscribers in 3 months. Uh, and we had an audience of, you know, millions basically by the time we’ left less than 2 years later. But that was the confidence that I had to go independent was I knew that the knowledge was there if it was working well the knowledge basically it became irreconcilable to be attached to a mainstream media organization and I’ve talked about this publicly but the owners and the people who work there we were starting to become so popular that our comments were causing problems in Washington is that people were getting upset at the things we would say advertisers or members of Congress they would call our bosses and pressure began to come down to kind of change the way that we would talk about certain subjects. This is, by the way, happens in every mainstream media corporation. It’s part of the reason that um being the way we set up our business is so the vast majority of our revenue comes from subscriptions. And it’s because we don’t want to be accountable to any advertiser or anybody else. We don’t even read ads on our platform specifically for that reason. And it’s all to insulate my ability to be able to come here and talk the way that I do about a subject I feel passionately about. let’s say Israel and free speech which I know already every word that I’m saying here is going to be dissected it’s going to be used as an attack vector and in the past that could have cost me my career and at the end of the day that’s why I decided to leave is to be able to speak the truth that’s why Crystal as well was the level of control inevitably even with the freest hand possible while attached to these behemoths mainstream media it’s irreconcilable if you want to tell the truth you cannot be attached to any organization which depends on insider access and on insider money. You have to separate yourself from that entity. Well, yes, that has been the experience of my life. What were the red lines did you So, you’re young and you’re as you’re hosting this show on a kind of brand new medium in this weird setup where you’re working for The Hill, but you’re doing an independent show. You’re learning what you’re not allowed to say. Yeah. Can’t criticize the age of members of Congress. How did that work out? By the way, conversations around age, can’t criticize uh Tik Tok, the Chinese government. That was a big one. Can’t criticize or talk openly about Israel. Uh can’t criticize. My favorite was CNBC, Jim Kramer. That’s criticize Jim Kramer. Critic, which is hilarious. If you go on Twitter, there’s an entire uh inverse Kramer index of Yeah, people get rich betting against people get very rich. Jim Kramer is so stupid that people get rich taking the opposite advice. I still laugh about that one. My but what happened? Yeah, I said he was an idiot and you know heard a little bit about that later. Your bosses are like, “No, no, we can’t say things like that.” You know, but Kramer’s very smart. He went to Harvard. Pharma. I forgot pharma. We talked a lot about big farm. That’s, you know, that’s one. I mean, you look, take a look at the ads really. But it’s it wasn’t that it because I didn’t actually change anything I said. But I can’t sit here and not lie to my a this audience and say that it was never it was always in the back of my head. Oh yeah. Oh, for sure. Always in your head. You don’t even realize how how present it is in your head until it’s not there. Look, I mean I was young, you know, I needed I have to eat, you know, I have a salary. These these are realities that I’m just laying out for people. And as you know, as free and and as ethical as I try to uphold myself and a crystal as well, we couldn’t we just could not stay in that environment and that’s why we decided to go. So then you decide to go and you basically take a version of the same show totally independent on the internet relying on subscriptions mostly subscriptions rather than advertising for the reasons you just so well described what happens yeah I mean it’s uh wildly exceeds our expectations on the very first day of launch both on the first day the first day of launch I mean they basically enabled us to run the company for a year which was insane I mean in other words you made enough on the very first day Yes. To run it debtree to run the company. How many investors did you have? We had zero investors. Uh the only investors quote unquote were uh my credit card account and her credit card account. So uh we took it was a gamble entirely of our You know what I’m asking? What did it cost to launch it? I believe uh uh I probably like $50 or $60,000 if I had to guess, but that was it. And uh the whole enterprise the whole just to launch to launch not to run in one day you got a full year’s operating revenue. what we were able to do and actually uh enough so that we were even also able to hire like at the time we needed a sound person. These are all important things. Lighting um an entire techn technical team, the ability to make sure that we’re you know distributing faster um you know I was these are all more boring things for the audience but things that ask you cuz it’s your story describes how low the barrier to entry is. If you know what you want to say, if you have a point of view, if you’re committed to honesty and independence, you can actually do it. You can do it. That’s why it’s so thrilling. That is why it’s thrilling. I mean, I mean, I was taking a look at your setup this morning and I was talking to some of your tech guys and I said, “Isn’t it amazing that we couldn’t even do this 10 years ago and I’m looking at your equipment. I have much of the same equipment.” I mean, look, it’s it’s decent money, but it’s not a lot of money, actually. And especially compared to I mean, you and I have seen those the Fox News New York control room. I mean, it’s like being in the International Space Station. It’s crazy. Oh, when they fired me, they came and sent their guys up here and ripped cuz I did my show from here for years and they ripped out all their equipment, which is fine. It was their equipment. And so we’re like, and we have a full studio that, you know, we built with their money. You know, my guys built it, but whatever. And they put all their tech in there. And then they took it all away. I wasn’t mad, but I was like, “Okay, we have to I have to pay for this now out of my pocket cuz I’m unemployed.” And we just moved to our dining room table where literally our family dining room table we’re sitting now. and it didn’t cost that much. So, I think that’s the only I never talk about money or business or because I’m not an expert on either one, but I just think it’s so exciting to know that you can do that. It and I I hope that’s inspiring to people who are out there. Uh I I I think really what it comes down to is not only audience, but the ability to say what you actually think. And I’ what I have found is that some of the most miserable people in all of media are the people who work in these corporations because they know they know and want to say many of the things you and I are saying and they’ll tell us privately of course but they’ll never say it. And um I don’t really know how much money that’s worth. Uh but beyond that I don’t really know how as a human being, you know, you can just continue to get up and everything. Well, I agree and I empathize cuz I was a TV anchor for most of my life. I empathize with the guys who like get the guest read out, you know, they sit down before the show like who are we interviewing today and there’s Mark Leavvin on there and like nobody likes Mark Levvin and he’s horrible television, he’s screechy and what he’s saying is like deranged and even if you sort of agree with Mark Leavin’s point of view, you can’t have Mark Levin on TV. It’s just an insult to the audience and it’s an insult to the anchor and having to see Mark Levin and turning off camera and being like this guy again like why are we doing this and they’re going to be like oh the second floor told us to do it. even if you’re totally on board with, you know, killing every Muslim or whatever their program is, that still has got to drive you crazy. It’s like an assault on your self-respect every single time. But what I found, and I’m sure you find the same, is that what I saw for them is they started to believe that proximity to power is power itself. And what I found really gross about that is they start to fetishize like the most ridiculous things, as in who gets the first rope line when you get to ask Trump a question. I mean, the amount of actual physical fighting that happens in that scrum, people would genuinely not believe. Really? Oh, yeah. I got I got I got hit in the in the head once actually with an elbow from a photographer for taking his spot even though there’s no unassigned spots. The Again, these are minutia, but what I’m saying is it’s a it’s a level of psychosis that takes over because in the White House press corps, everything is about access to the president. And so everybody is jocking in a zero sum environment where everyone is trying to get the interview or going to smoo this person or that person. But the problem with that is they turn from practitioner starting to believe that they themselves are important and this vital conduit of information. And what you turn into is basically an apparachic of the state environment that I’m talking about. And so for many of the anchors and others, they live for the black tie war at White House correspondents dinner or getting invited to a cocktail party or a book party. I mean, this is the currency of Washington and of New York. It has been for decades. But you start to live, you know, you start to fill that emptiness inside of you with the knowledge that you get to facetime with a subc cabinet appointee at at a dinner and you can use that information because Senator Schumer knows your name. These are these are all very important things, you know, for the social capital. And this is pathetic. I I want people to know this is pathetic. And I watch people live their entire lives on Capitol Hill in the White House press corps in television and other for all of these like empire imperial level events that are put on to just make them feel special and continue on in the machine. And I actually didn’t realize how radical it was for people like you or people like me to say I actually don’t care about that at all. I don’t I don’t care if I ever go to another cocktail party or another black tie dinner or any of these things simply to be in the presence of people who are actually powerful. I would rather just critique them and say what I actually think. And the irony of course is as you have found out when you say what you actually think and you are critical of them in an honest way. They take you so much more seriously. They laugh at you when you’re one of those people who cares about cocktail parties or any of that. You’re one of the most useful cogs in the machine. It’s the people they can’t control are the people who they call because they’re the inconvenient voices. So that was it’s interesting you said that was my next question. So the the whole process of covering the White House, being in the White House press corp, going to the briefings and the gaggle and all that, going to the parties, are you actually getting information? No, I’ve I’ve never gotten more information than what I do right now. I actually during the 12-day war, I literally never got more information from inside of the entire apparatus than I ever did when I was covering the White House. And it was because I was so critical of the Trump administration, of the direction that they were taking. And many of the people who I spoke to, for the record, actually were ne almost none who I knew personally. Almost all simply saw my commentary and agreed with me and wanted a conduit for information to be able to get out of there. And that was that’s a great lesson by the way for any white aspiring journalists or others who listen is you need they will take you much more seriously if you hit them in the face. And hitting them in the face makes them kind of shocked because it’s so counter to the way that the machine works. When you work in the machine, they can call your editor, they can call your boss, they can call your advertiser, they can put a significant amount of pressure on you, but when they can’t control you, they start to freak out. And uh that is one of the most useful lessons of my life actually in terms of coverage and in terms of journalism and the ability to speak out. Speaking out can get you uh is unfortunately such a differentiator from where uh the entire like traditional system really starts to work. What’s the downside? Uh well the downside is uh you know a freezing out of the entire social movement of professional Washington is that professional Washington protects its own it’s effectively is a jobs network uh for each other so that people who are in and out of government always have reliable sources of income implicit within that is that hey this is what we think about Israel this is what we think about XY taxes you know uh these are this is what we think about the carried interest loophole we don’t talk about that um the step up basis uh this is what we think about cutting social security. This is an accepted fact, you know, we need to accept this that it’s acceptable, you know, to kick uh elderly people off social security or Medicare or food stamps. And we just take this information and in exchange for that information, we get a job for the rest of our lives. If I hadn’t gone independent, I could have easily relied on working in Washington till the age of 65 within the machine. That would have been actually very doable. Um, and you know, this this was the risk actually is saying what you actually want to say. That is the riskiest thing you can do within the system and in exchange you will no longer get invited to these dinners or any of these other things. You have to be okay with that. You have to be okay uh I think with something that you have found as well by being denounced by people who you knew personally or uh people who um you know who you would help in their career. Uh people who you uh you know in many ways you’re like I I I would personally never do that to you. I can’t really believe that you’re doing it to me. And the reason you’re doing it is we all know what it is is you’re being controlled by a broader and a bigger either financial or foreign lobby interest. I’ve had this experience and this is the red line for you where you call people and you’re like I can’t believe you said that about me, you know, calling me a bigot or whatever when you know that I’m not. And um it’s I I don’t I don’t even go on I don’t even go on the internet anymore. So I have no idea what people are saying. But I, you know, several years ago when all this began, I remember calling um a couple people and you know, one person I said, “Well, let’s have lunch.” No. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. Um so did that. So when you went independent, you’ve been in DC cuz you got there for college. You’ve been there for 10 years. You know a lot of people, right? Got there at 18, right? Started went independent at 28. So you know a ton of people. You’re a social person. I happen to know. So, you are going to tons of events and you have tons of friends and all of a sudden you’re going off in a direction you’re not spewing hate or bigotry at all, but you are saying things that other people are not saying. How intensely did people you know try to bring you back? Yeah. almost immediately there were a lot of warnings about hey this is dangerous or I mean my close really well my close friends knew that they supported me but it was really like the professional friends people who you’re broadly acquainted with are like what’s he up to you know what’s his deal what’s what’s happening here and you it’s it’s incredible how small how rapid that shrink can happen in terms of not being invited to these things anymore or uh you know just being as a social outcast or your phone stops ringing to various different things. Did you feel that right away? Almost. I wouldn’t say immediately, but it did happen like quite rapidly. Uh a 6 month, maybe a one-year period. Israel was actually the final straw in particular after is after October 7th. I was almost an immediate cut off from the entire professional network. Why? What did you say? Well, I said that I think that the way that Israel was conducting itself in Gaza was not befitting of a civilized Western nation and that the United States didn’t have a compelling interest in what was going on there and that we should just focus on ourselves. I said all the same things about Ukraine. Um and uh many of them agreed with me then. Apparently that was the red line, you know, for them. But what kind of reaction did you get? Well, I mean it a lot of it is uh you know calling people in my social circle asking why I’m so anti-Semitic now. Um why actually? Yes. Yeah. No, it actually happened. Um and a lot of it is also just generally a freeze of communication or discomfort, you know, being in presence. And and I think people should hear about this because what I just described that social capital when that’s everything, this is how that those norms are enforced within the system, even if you’ve never received any money from any of these people, which of course most of them have. And so you put all of that together and you really watch this like professional nexus and others where you’re just almost immediately rejected from like the inner sanctums of the Imperium. But I mean something that traces back to like wanting to go independent was this knowledge that outside of the Imperium are all of these other rising, you know, almost revolutionary forces of the Joe Rogan podcast, Dave Smith, uh Daryl Cooper, Andrew Schultz, uh Theo Vaughn, all of these individuals. By the way, many of the comedians I listed don’t even consider themselves political. But it’s because they’re not connected to the system that they’re able to say and observe truths that nobody in professional comedy or Hollywood connected comedy or any of other will ever dare, you know, be able to even give a voice to these types of ideas. And so I chose the latter, you know, over the former. And what did you think of the So I know all the people you just mentioned. I think so much of every one of those people. I’d add Tim Dylan to that list. Of course, Tim, wonderful person. But um the now I’m being I can’t control myself. The quality of the people. So you you get expelled from you you leave but you’re also shunned by your former world. You enter this new world that includes all the people you just listed. How would you compare the quality of the people? It’s night and day difference. And if we disagree, they’re just don’t care. There’s no, you know, professional uh freeze out. There’s no, you know, there’s not as many hard feelings. There’s you could look right into his face and say the things you just said that you believe so deeply I think are stupid and he and he’d still go to dinner with you. Of course he would. I disagree with Dave on a lot mostly on economics. I don’t think he cares at all. We know we talk all the time. Yeah. And that’s that’s a really important point, right? Is that the verboten issues and the enforcement of all of that is part of why a lot of these people have found this tremendous amount of success that they have. And that’s that is what still gives me some hope about where we are. I totally agree that there, you know, I believe in God and I do think that there’s like an upside, you know, you go through suffering, but there’s always like a redemptive quality to it. And in this specific case, like you find the new people, you know, you do lose friends. Have you lost friends? Yes. Unfortunately, yes, me too. And I still am sad about it. But boy, the people you meet are like the most honest, interesting, decent. Like the quality, I’m sorry to reduce it to this, but the quality of the marriages among the people, you know, who are telling the truth versus the quality of the people who are paid to lie or who are too afraid to tell the truth. Boy, they have just happier people, just better people. Of course. Well, I mean, what kind of person who who has small children at home would want to leave them for four out of five nights a week to attend book party events at Black Dunk? Exactly. I mean, and to drink five or six nights a week. I mean, this is literally the life that a lot of these people live. And if you’re a cog in a machine and you’re like having Mark Leven on night after night, even though everyone knows it’s like absurd, how can your wife respect you? I don’t know. Yeah. or getting up at 3:30 a.m. in the morning. I’m sure you used to in the morning show gig and having to read from the prepared packet for yourself. You know, good luck, honey. I hope the kids are okay in the morning and then, you know, reducing your life to all of that. For what for what purpose? No, it’s totally and that that you know, and these are mechanical, but they’re macro and important issues. Nicely put. So, I want to ask you about the politics of all this cuz I feel like so it is what’s the date? Monday, July 7th. things are moving so fast um that you know who knows where we’ll be when this airs which I hope is soon but um as of this morning Elon Musk is out there using the cover up that Pam Bondi is so clearly engaged in disgraceful disgraceful cover up um and I like Pam Bondi personally but I’m I’m I’m ashamed as an American to see what they’re doing he’s using that to say hey we need need a new political party like Everyone’s involved in the Epstein cover up, which is true. We need an America party and I’m running it. Mhm. Where does this is he serious? Where does this go? Filed it with the FEC. Uh I would give some caution to Elon. Um Tucker, you and I have seen a lot of rich people come and go in Washington. The consultants see you coming from a mile away. Mr. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal. I’m just going to put that out there. The bipartisan policy center and all these other people, they’ve rolled up that entire market. They have plenty to sell you powerpoints about rank choice voting and a few other things and all that. So, uh, for all of them, I wish you the best of luck because you’re all about to get filthy rich off of you. Can you Okay. Can you just explain a little bit? So, I’m from DC, so I know what you’re talking about, but for people who aren’t, what exactly are you saying? Well, I’m saying that there is a long fetishized idea of an American third party which is fiscally conservative, which is socially liberal, which is moderate on immigration and which is very uh comfortable with oligarchy and that those forces are extremely wellunded and they have a lot of research which could back up whatever your proclivities are and they will happily sell it to you for 10 times market price and sit with presentations to convince you that this is a great idea. Uh and actually I mean the irony is if Elon’s politics were more reversed in this sense I actually think he would be on to something. So my belief is that both of the parties actually do have not answers directly but directionally to the fundamental problems of our age. Immigration and I think the Republican party obviously uh is solid or has come a long way on the issue of at least the base let’s say that the voters. Yeah. The voters on the issue of immigration from the gang of eight party and rebellion to where we are today. And immigration I I still believe is one of the most central important issues of our time. But let’s put the other side and we can take this one big beautiful bill as an example. We increased the defense budget by 150 billion. Now I will not get into the actual specific Medicaid cuts but I think it’s everything in Washington is about priority. So we extended the tax cuts from the TC tax cuts and jobs act of 2017. The vast majority of that benefit largely accrs to people who are already rich. Most of that in particular accuses uh either to the you know the the high W2 income earner. Uh I saw somebody point out correctly that most of those people are Democrats. So it’s a little bit ironic, you know, if you’re just thinking purely in terms of politics. We didn’t have any interest in closing the carried interest loophole. We didn’t have any interest in in looking at the step up basis at looking at financialization and there’s so many areas tens of bill hundreds of billions of dollars right for the taking without having to touch a single benefit to an American citizen. and instead we started and instead rewrote the way that Medicaid and food stamp programs are going to work which could potentially impact tens of millions of Americans. Now again I think there’s legitimate criticisms around work requirements and welfare and all that. I don’t necessarily criticize that as opposed to this fetishization that I saw from GOP congressmen who were like, “Yeah, it’s good that people are going to lose their healthcare.” And I said, “Look, whether these people are working or not, it’s not good that anybody loses healthare.” And so that’s what I mean about where if Elon’s politics were flipped, I think the Democrats, at least rhetorically, do have correct focus on issues like healthcare and around or at very at the very least the way that our economy is structured. Now, they may not mean it. I don’t think they mean it in practice, but at least rhetorically. So if you were to marry those three issues about immigration restriction, about focus on quality of life, cost of living, healthcare, and also just broadly about restructuring our economy for productive purposes that distributes not through socialism, but through a well-ordered and a well- reggulated capitalism that distributes the benefit across all sectors of our society. Now, that’s an America party I could get on board with, but there’s no funding for that, right? Someone got up and said, “I’d like an economy where you don’t have to hire an illegal alien to raise your kids. Your wife can stay home and raise your kids if she wants to.” And most women do want to for the period when they’re little. I mean, most women want that. And every survey shows that. So, if you were to say that, in other words, if you were to respond to the desire of the majority, probably be shot to death. You can’t say that. Like, it’s better to raise your kids than to work in a bank, right? Oh, right-wing extremism. You know, let’s just seal the borders till we figure out who’s here and restore meaning to citizenship. What racist? Maybe we should stop giving billions in aid to the, you know, stop trying to run the world when we’re not good at it at all and just preserve our our fundamental national interests. Uh, isolationist, Nazi, anti-semite. It’s like or in socialist when we talk about healthcare or any of those other issues. Yeah. I mean, I um I do feel like there’s a huge opportunity for someone who would talk like that. That’s a real America party. I mean, in in his at it best, the 2016 Donald Trump campaign was what I just talked about. I did not recognize it at the I was telling you yesterday that election night broke every every political conception and idea I had which is the best thing that ever happened to me because it allowed me to free my mind to read all of these other people who I had never considered who I was told were illegitimate you know within professional Washington and what it came to the conclusion that it said professional Washington is illegitimate and has no idea what allegedly its own voters were why did so few people do I had the same experience and but um which it was hard for me because I’ve been there for so long but it was so liberating and I’m grateful for it and I’m grateful Trump for that. But why did so few people do that? Because asking those questions. Yes. You know that is not asking those questions and coming to what I think are the right conclusions about our economy and about this restructuring of our entire political base. I mean the way that voting patterns over the last decade have changed is unbelievable. And when you actually answer a lot of those questions you come to them that are very you know inconvenient for the empire. You know the empire currently runs on cheap labor um which is immigration related. It runs on war abroad, you know, military-industrial complex, if you want to call it, uh, but all of these foreign entanglements and and pushing billions of dollars, you know, to policing the ends of the earth. Something that the I always want to come to the architects of the American Empire, General Eisenhower and General Marshall, General Eisenhower in particular, said it would be a failure if American legions acted as Roman that were deployed to the vast ends of the earth policing it. His vision for the American Empire was to set up well-ordered states in Europe and to them let them handle it from that point forward. General Marshall and others I mean yes they had the Marshall plan but the idea was about creating self-sufficiency that could allow America then could return to where things were broadly in more the 1940s environment. But more what I’m saying is that if you look at all of that and you start to speak against it and what these are what the voters want you start to come up against the most powerful interests in the world. Healthcare is 20% of our GDP. We have the worst health outcomes in the developed world. That’s insane. Why? You know, it’s not because our health care system is not working all that well. Uh it comes down to immigration. We talked about cheap labor. Uh with war, that’s, you know, foreign governments. It’s the ideology of the imperium, which is all about basically transnational loyalty as opposed to loyalty to your own citizenship and really to your own country. And then broadly about oligarchy. And because when we look at the way how do you become rich in America today? I a few years ago I went to the Forbes billionaire list and I just restricted the list to the number of new billionaires that were added to that list. The vast majority of those new billionaires in America were people who worked in hedge funds and in finance. And this is why in some ways the left is wrong. They often criticize um let’s they’ll often criticize like let’s take Elon as an example and Elon is a complicated figure but you know look I have a Tesla. I encourage everybody to to get in one at least once uh because it’s like getting an iPhone 4 for the first time. It will change your entire conception of what a car is. Now, if people were getting rich creating an American car company, I would be ecstatic. But that’s not what they’re getting rich from. They’re getting rich from extractive, addictive capitalism, let’s say in finance, right? basically creating, you know, unproductive trading systems which are only enriching themselves and then rigging our tax code so they pay lower taxes than small business owners maybe like you or I or the average person on the street who gets taxed at a higher rate for his labor. Let’s take you know other examples like the more you know all the so companies so-called great companies coming necessarily out of Silicon Valley you know the vast majority of that money as Peter Teal famously said you know we’re promised flying cars all we got were 140 characters there is something deeply true about that about the experience of the technology industry has larely been about extractive capitalism and addiction on our phones and about industries that rely on that as opposed to products that make our lives better and make better boy they lecture you about that I have friends. Although yeah, this this will ignite in the tech business who I really like, who I consider so smart and interesting, but and I guess we all get preachy about what we’re doing with our lives. I mean, I I get preachy about journalism. We’re here to tell the truth. Yeah. So, I’m trying not to be too judgmental. On the other hand, I don’t see technology over the past 80 years. Oh, what about antibiotics and the polio vaccine? Okay. Right. But in general, net net, as we say in the douchebag industry, I I don’t see it as a net plus at all. I see it as enslavement and a total disaster like a but you’re not but they’re like what technology is making our lives better. Really tell me how I mean let’s take and I know you want to talk about sports gambling. It’s the perfect example, right? So it’s something that’s been enabled by the phone and has led in my opinion to what is the next opioid epidemic that we will see in the next 10 years. So in 2018, literally just 2018, the Supreme Court reversed a ruled a decision that restricted sports gambling to the state of Nevada. New Jersey immediately, Chris Christie, by the way, is the person who brought this lawsuit, which legalizes sports gambling. Eventually, he’s on the side of sports gambling. Of course, he he was the he was the person who brought the suit. Well, what happens from that point forward? Lowest ever. Well, you and I are sitting here today in a country where 40 uh 40 states plus the District of Columbia sports gambling is legal. You have these sports gambling companies, FanDuel and DraftKings, which uh basically have legal monopolies from the states, from the gaming commissions of these states where they are allowed to operate and it’s not a free market because of the lensure and the way that it works. Yes, not everybody can just become a gambler. I want to talk about this. I should say cuz I’m totally ignorant on the but I keep hearing from young people who I’m related to or who work for me about people getting in trouble with sports gambling. Yes. And so how did this all happen? So, in the span of what, it’s been 7 years since that happened. 40 states are now legal. I just looked it up this morning. Uh, several hundred billion dollars were gambled by Americans in 2024. Billion dollar were gambled in 2024. The gambling revenue was some 14 billion, just the revenue they were able to extract. That is larger than the motion picture industry, the box office industry in the United States of America. The vast majority of that revenue, a study that came out shows, comes from only 3% of gamblers. 3%. And the reason why is that gambling addicts make up almost 50% of the revenue. 3% make up 50% because they literally cannot put it down. And what makes this story even crazier is that FanDuel DraftKings have the legal right in the way that they run their business where Tucker, if you and I were actually good at sports gambling, they would effectively ban us from the platform. They would no longer allow us to place bets larger than let’s say $1.20. And the reason why is their algorithms are detectable for anybody who is actually gambling smart. And so they immediately will ban you from being able to bet any sizable portion of money. Meanwhile, for those gambling addicts, those 3%, they have an entire VIP host directed service where DraftKings and FanDuel shower these people in free gifts. They call them every single day. They basically operate on the phone to make sure that there’s no track record because they’re not supposed to do this. They’re not supposed to enable gambling addicts according to the law. And what they do is they encourage them with free promotions or whatever to keep gambling their entire life savings. More recently, there was a man, I talked about it in my monologue on the subject, who gambled away over a million, I think $1.4 million. He never made more than $200,000. His wife is suing DraftKings because he gambled away his children’s life savings, college accounts, his Christmas gifts, everything. Every everything that he owned. He’d never gambled before 2020 and he gambled away everything he owned by 2024. DraftKings used to call him every single day. They used to say, “Where, you know, we got to what else you got?” They violated their own policies according to the lawsuit, according to their lawsuit, uh, the lawsuit brought by the wife. The the income, if they tried to verify it, they would have seen that he was using all of these different assets, which are, you know, obviously not from a W2 income, which is apparently violated of their policy. they would have seen as they admit in many cases he was a gambling addict and they didn’t care. They allowed him to basically gamble away his life savings and not only enabled it but encouraged it. So you know what I’m thinking as you’re telling me this amazing story what I’m really afraid of is Sharia law. They hate us for our freedoms. They hate us for our freed Sharia is the threat. Maybe they had something going on gambling and but my point this is so dark. This is and this is all on your phone. This is on my phone. This is on everybody’s phone. And it’s almost every young man’s phone in America. It’s part of the social fabric right now of male culture in the United States. And all of it, and I didn’t even get to the craziest part, which is that the bets that they’re making are these things called single game parlay bets, which are basically conting multi-contingent bets about four or five different things happening because the odds payout is much higher. You will lose with such regularity. Like in the state of Illinois, 60% of all bets were that type of bet. Can you give me an example? My ignorance is astounding on this subject. So, so I’m not very well verssed in sports, but let’s say we’re watching a football game. We would say that this person is going to rush more than 200 yards. The quarterback will score two touchdowns and at the at the end of the second half, the Packers will be up by seven. So, you would bet that. And so, your payout on a $5 bet could be $1,000. And that’s why it’s very attractive. But what people don’t understand is that it’s priced that way, that $5 for a,000, because you’re almost certainly not going to hit it. And that’s the vast vast majority of the bets that Americans are making today cuz it’s fun. But my point around the fun is that the gambling addicts are the only people who enable your fun. And if you’re actually any good at this, you’ll get banned. It’s a totally unfair market. How can they Well, that’s totally and Vegas is the same way. Vegas is the same way of how they back off people who are good at uh card counting. That’s where the custom what was legacy granted into the sports gambling houses comes from. Regulators don’t care about any of this and legislators. Why? Because they’re getting filthy rich revenues off of this from the state. But my contention is if you look at the social cost of every single state where sports gambling has been legalized, we’ve seen an increase in bankruptcy, particularly young young men. We’ve seen a rise in domestic violence, intimate partner violence, largely when bets lose. So a man bet will lose and he’ll take it out on his wife or the kids that are in the house. It’s horrible. We’ve seen a actually statistically significant rise almost directly as a result of sports gambling. We are watching the social costs of our brother, our cousin or whatever go bankrupt or lose hundreds of dollars get normalized into this environment of uh taking like insane risks which you don’t even really understand. It’s getting inshed. If you go to any bar in America during a sports game, you’ll find somebody there with their phone and if you’re talking to them, they’ve got money on every play of the game. They’ll be like, “Oh, I had $20 that he would, you know, throw a touchdown in the very first quarter.” Soon they’re rolling out products which make it so that you can bet like every single play of the game. And they’re doing it live so you can do it there all on your phone. I mean, that’s basically to me that’s an emblem of where we have become what we have become as a country. We use a smartphone as an addictive platform to enable one of the worst vices that we’ve always recognized in American history. And my solution is simple is okay, it’s not fair that Nevada had sports gambling. Let’s just make it in person. We have to introduce friction into the system. We do that for alcohol. We do that for cigarettes. By the way, cigarette companies are not allowed to sponsor and spend billions of dollars in advertising at the Super Bowl and pair up with professional sports betting leagues. You know, I’ve spoken with professional athletes, NFL athletes, who told me they have fo faced harassment from people who lost bets because of them. They’ll be like, “Hey, the kicker, you idiot. you didn’t make that and I had $1,000, you know, on something. It’s ruining the game. The gambling companies and the leagues are coming together. Tens of millions of Americans are borderline addicted right now. Hundreds of millions are actually making bets. And all of this is just like a sleeping social revolution in the country where parlay betting and the lingo that used to be known to you know the most degenerate guy who lives in Vegas is now common parlance you know in the in in American culture and people call you nanny state or any of that. I just said I don’t even oppose necessarily the ability to sports gamble. I just think we should treat it like any other vice and make it so that you have to get why not just say it’s disgusting and predatory. And by the way, they’re praying as the crypto people do. Sorry. On the frustration and sadness of young men who know they’re never going to be able to afford a wife, kids, and a house. Exactly. And that’s they sell you the dream. All the all the advertisements are you can get rich with your knowledge. And as I just said, if you actually do get rich, they’ll just ban you or if you have the potential to. Business wasn’t always this sleazy in the United States. There were self-restraints. I mean, I’ve never been that into business or never participated in business actually in my whole life. But so what do I know? But I have been here a while and I remember people had like there was feeling like well that’s just wrong. We’re not going to do that. Yes. Taking advantage of people was bad especially poor people like payday loan was a really sleazy business. Charging 30% interest on a credit card would I mean you your neighbors would judge you. Yeah. And they should but that’s the problem with the collapse of social trust is that there’s not a lot of policing. Totally amoral predators took control of our society at every level. That’s exactly right. And now the government is in league with them. they’re grant it’ll be legal in almost all 50 states uh probably by the end of the decade and all of this will lead to mass bankruptcy like I all the social attendant costs of this but I think more importantly it shows when you have that collapse of social enforcement within your society you just can just see how rap I’m talking about a 7-year period this is not long ago that this was even not a thing that we went to bigger than the motion picture industry and you and I are talking before football season all forecasts say that DraftKings and FanDuel will make more money this year than they have ever made before. And 2024 to 2023 was already a 23% rise. Why are people paying their gambling debts? Uh yeah. Why are people paying their credit card bills? I don’t understand. I mean, it’s like so one-sided. It’s like you’re a college student and you get credit card offers, free credit cards, and you get lured into something like this. You get destroyed by it, but you still have to pay your debts. So, it’s all upside for them. And then people wag their finger in your face like, “Oh, you a communist. Am I a communist?” No. No, I’m not. Um, if you say like, “Why? Why would you pay your debts? Why would you ever It’s usually pay off.” It is. And it they’re the ones who should be ashamed. Not just ashamed. Our legislators should do something about it. I really do want to start a political party. Don’t pay your credit card bill. Do not pay your gambling debts. I really do. It’d be a general strike against or or student loan, honestly. But whenever but what they do and it’s the same people they take the frustration the people who are benefiting from DraftKings and City Bank they take the frustration that people feel this stupid new mayor of New York and they move it into like race hate. They basically take that momentum and they shift it into a safe direction like just hate each other on the basis of the way you look. Yes, of course. And that’s very safe for their for their backers. But I’m just waiting for the guy who’s like, “No, no, no. The real criminals are the ones who are loaning you money at 30% interest or getting you to go bankrupt on a sports gambling app.” Like, those are the villains. Why don’t we go after them? I agree. I have been waiting. I will you run for president on the don’t pay your credit card bill. I will send you money. Well, but that I I’ve been waiting for somebody I talked with a guy who’s an expert on the history of political parties and he said, you know, one of the most popular issues that I think that would resonate is banning people, employers who schedule closing shift and opening shift. It’s called cloing, right? like people who have to work until midnight and wake up at 6:00 a.m. A lot of these are the most precarious people in our economy who are basically screwed around with by their employers getting paid minimum wage and feel the deep frustration of no power in their lives from financial institutions to their employers. He’s like, I genuinely think just an issue like that would resonate so deeply. And then I started thinking, I go, why does that not even a thing? And I go, “Oh, well, it’s because most people in Washington don’t even know about the term that I just used.” And it’s about the everyday life of somebody who is worried about being able to buy a house. I mean, let’s even put buying a house out of that. That’s the American dream. I’m talking about let’s just making rent. I’m talking about, you know, being able to fill up your car. I mean, a large percentage of this country is a blown tire away from bankruptcy. A literal blown tire away from complete bankruptcy. economic procarity to a level which is shameful you know whenever we have the you know richest country in human history and you know you talked about Zoron and what I really appreciated is look we don’t like Zoron I’m not pro Zoron I get it but when he says hey I’m just worried about the rent and I don’t care about Israel cuz I’m going to stay here in New York I loved it how I loved it too that’s what all we need that’s what all people really want when Trump first term withdrew from Paris and he I was elected to be the president of Pittsburgh, not Paris. And I was like, wow. So, that’s the problem. The problem of the DOJ decision yesterday to cover up the crimes of Epstein, which they are doing, um, is that it leaves people at the very end of their electoral options. It’s like, I voted for this guy, and I’ll speak for myself, I voted for this guy precisely because I’m really distressed. I want justice. I want honesty. I think secrecy absets evil. I want someone to focus on my country. Like all the basic things and I think Trump wants all those things too. But if you when you allow something like this to happen, people are like, you know what, the system itself is beyond reform. There’s no reasonable step I can take to improve this country or my own life. I have to do something crazy like you’re creating true radicalism when you do stuff like this cuz what’s the option? Well, that’s why in a way I I want to hold a lot of these leaders to a higher standard is because if you’re elected on that message and you betray that message, in my opinion, you’re more culpable than let’s say the idiots like George W. Bush and others who really believed it, right? They believed what they destroyed our country. Uh but they at least they didn’t lie to us as much about wanting to address the very problems that they created. But when you have people like Obama, Biden, and Trump, who are elected right now on the backs of fixing the most catastrophic presidency probably in American history, George W. Bush, but then to return to many or in many cases even go further and not actually address those. I think you’re very culpable in that. And you reap what you sow. I mean, you said you’re you’re not a radical. I’m I I’m similar in disposition like I don’t want to see mass violence or any of these other Well, you’re a married father and you’re like I am too. Totally vested in the future of the country. Exactly. I don’t want that to happen. But as an analyst or as somebody familiar with history, somebody who has an audience and can pick up on social trends, people are mad as hell right now. They are angry. Too mad. Angry. Too mad. No, I agree. I’m I’m legit. that Epstein thing. It’s not even about Ebstein. I can live. I think I know what the Epstein thing was. Everybody knows what it was. Um I think Uporn is the same thing. Yes, they’re collecting information to blackmail people on Uporn. Do you think a foreign government doesn’t have access to the back end of I think I think they do. And so I get it. I understand, you know, everyone knows what’s up. But to insult the population by saying no, you’re a conspiracy theorist. It’s like I think you’re really playing with fire when you do. Well, especially when you said the conspiracy and then now reverted. It’s too It’s too much. It’s too much. That is too much. Do you know I mean can you call Pam Bondi and say I think Pam Bondi is under a ton of pressure. Again, I’ve always liked Pam Bondi. I know her. I think she’s under enormous pressure. I you know I don’t know how good she is under pressure trying to be nice but uh I don’t think that she’s like a sinister person who is you know doing the work of Leon Black and Barack on purpose really but I I wonder if they know this is a real thing here they have to know and and the reason why I think they have to know is that the breadcrumbs that got us to this moment have already been sprinkled. Cash Patel testified and said it was suicide. went on the Joe Rogan podcast and said, “If I had that information, don’t you think I would tell you he killed himself?” I mean, that was basically this was an enshrinement of many of the things that they had already put out there that and the criticism and really the outrage over each of those individual comments. Let’s say the the so-called Epstein files released with many of the influencers. There was outrage at every step. So, they’re not stupid at the But how can you say that thousands of children were raped, but I’m not going to find out who raped them? How can you say that? I agree. I agree completely. They said that by the way when Pam Bondi went on television and said, “I have a videotape of kids getting abused.” I didn’t I follow this case closely and I know a lot of the people involved as I’ve told you. Mhm. I had no idea. I didn’t know that really. Thousands of children got raped. Who raped them? Where are the rapists? Like why aren’t they in jail? What? This is the Department of Justice. Yes. Yes. That is so crazy. This is like the This is honestly one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen in my entire life. And I just think it’s very dangerous to play around with this stuff. Like very dangerous. I don’t want a revolution, but if you wanted a revolution, this is how you would act. Yes. Yeah, it is. Because I mean I I gave Versailles as an example. When you pick the court over and over again and the people start to wake up to that, bad things can happen. And uh this is something that I find really disgusting about American elites is that for a long time the American republic and the elite system has been one that can actually cycle at least some of the wants and the needs of the American voter to basically plate it and keep it from going down the path of fascism and or socialism. But when you continue to just double down on the imperium and on what the what fuels the empire itself and you would keep ignoring all of these things. I mean, I do think this bill is an important part of that. Like, we’re increasing defense spending. The empire is not even good at what it’s supposed to be doing. It’s causing chaos abroad. The military-industrial complex is not even good at creating weapons or ammunition. Uh, the global financial system has been revealed as a complete ruse. We sanctioned Russia to death. Remember, we said that they will never rise. Their economy grew and they were able to increase. I tried to tell that story and I went to the Soviet or Soviet Russian grocery store not because I want to live in Russia though it’s really nice but to point out that like everything you said was going to happen didn’t happen. Yeah, they’re doing fine. And what’s the lesson in that is that you know the ability to produce the goods that you need, the ability to produce the energy and to at least have a few allies who also reject the western global financial system is all you need now to stand against the American empire. I think that was actually one of the most important things that has ever happened because we threw it all at Russia over most insignificant conflict involving the United States. And what has China been doing now for the last 5 years just studying they since Ukraine they have been studying this and we did it because a small group of foreign policy and government officials deeply care about Ukraine. Exactly. They really care about Ukraine. Okay, that’s great. I deeply care about Sweden. You maybe deeply care about India. Yeah. Yeah. But you’re not driving our foreign polic, you know, they care about Ukraine for whatever reason, but they’re imposing that on a country of 350 million people. Like, are you joking? You can’t do that. They humiliated us really in the eyes of most of our adversaries. Where is the day that Russia can increase its GDP and can increase its ammunition more than all of NATO while subject to the most devastating sanctions supposedly in the history of the United States. that shows that it’s all fake. And that that’s Russia, which is a much smaller and less much of a threat to the United States, let’s say, than any other country in the world. And all those other countries are studying this with a, you know, with a fine tooth comb to sanction proof themselves. So when the time comes that we’re really affected and this affects me and you and my kid or your kids that we’re going to have a real problem. I couldn’t agree more. and to spend a trillion dollars on something that’s not working. I mean, I guess of all the money you could spend spending in the military, decent people in the military, some good, really good people, if it actually went to them, that’d be fine. But it’s not, as you and I know. I read the other day this analysis from someone I know who’s really smart, and it was, and the question was, will the United States use nuclear bunker busters in Iran? Okay, so that would for many reasons be, you know, the first time nuclear weapons have been used in 80 years, kind of a big deal. So, I don’t think anyone wants that particular Rubicon to be crossed. So, I um I was like, “Wow, I wonder if that’s going to happen.” So, I call around and the answer I got, which I think is true, we don’t have any nuclear bunker busters. Um and because we’re not good at building anything, we’re not going to have them for quite some time. Now, I haven’t verified that, but I got that. I mean, I think that’s true. That’s insane. Now, I don’t want to use nuclear bunker busters at all. And apparently, it was George W. Bush who said we shouldn’t. So, you know, there’s a rare win for the Bush team. Thank you, George W. Bush. But if that’s true, you spend a trillion dollars and you don’t even have a nuclear bunker buster. I mean, that’s the least of our problems. We don’t have basic ammunition. No, I’m aware. It’s like the level of dysfunction is so overwhelming that and that’s the military, which you got to assume is more functional than say the Department of Transportation or energy or commerce or interior. It’s like got to be one of the most functional departments. at least they actually pass a marksmanship test occasionally. Um then things are really in disarray and we actually need reform. Yes. Like im immediate reform because I mean I just think I don’t know. I’ve I’ve almost come to the conclusion it’s like we’re either going to have to hit a financial crisis or a war. That’s really the only time. I feel that. So what where do things go politically? uh that a lot of that depends on Donald Trump and how he handles his meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and the uh next coming years because and this is why I was so concerned about Iran and I think you were too and also why the people crowing victory in my opinion will look stupid is we and I listened to your entire interview with the president of Iran is very important interview uh at the very least because whether he means it or not he’s trying to telegraph for peace and not only trying to telegraph for peace naming Israel as the prime as a prime I’m provocator wanting better relations here with the United States of America, but also concerned about the fact that at least according to our president, diplomacy was at least used in some way, either afterwards taken credit for or at least the perspective was given, it was used as a ruse, which will undermine our ability to future negotiate. Let’s say you are Iran, which in my opinion, what I took away from this is despite all of the they’re they’re genocidal terrorists who want to kill us all, they acted highly rationally. They only struck Israel. uh they fired 14 bases, you know, at the at the US B 14 missiles at the US base. They gave us pre pre, you know, preemptive notice. They immediately then called it off, willing to sign a ceasefire. He seemed at the very least his ability to telegraph rationality in his interview with you. What I take away from that then is rationally if you are the country of Iran and you look at the history now and the context in which this has now happened I don’t see how 30 years from now we either don’t have a an actual nuclear armed Iran or regime change because every single time let’s even look at Israel’s operations in 1981 I’m sure you remember Israel took out Iraq’s nuclear program or at least dam severely dam a reactor now that was sold as it was onetime operation. By the way, do you remember that the Reagan administration denounced it and that we actually uh paused shipments, I believe, of F-14s to the country. Why? Because we saw it as an outrageous move which was destabilizing destabilizing relations. Ronald Reagan, everybody, uh you know, not some known anti-semite. But of course, we’re not allowed to know our history. The point though is that that preemptive strike in 1981, did it stop the United States from invading Iraq in 2003 for an operation regime change sold on the lie of WMD? The point is is that it actually hardened Saddam’s resolve to at least create the impression of having nuclear weapons and and for a time actually amassing other so-called weapons of mass destruction and it hardened the you know want of Syria in 2007 when they did something similar. If you look at the history here now of the so-called preemptive strike from Israel, known as the Beagan doctrine around nuclear weapons in the Middle East, every time there’s a strike, eventually it leads to regime change. So Iraq, regime change, Syria, regime change. With Libya, of course, they had all kinds of stuff going on with the Libyan program. Gaddafi did the smart thing at what he thought at the time, gave up his nuclear weapons. And what happened to him? He was de, you know, literally sodomized on camera. It was what eight years later by the United States of America. So the history of that in the region should really you have to be very stupid not to look at every single one of those instances and say, “Yeah, I don’t know about whether dealing with the United States and or Israel here in this context is one that I can trust. In fact, I should probably just go get a nuclear weapon.” Let’s take the only member of the axis of evil today that has never been bombed by the United States of America, North Korea. I saw a book about Kim Jong- behind you. ill behind you. And uh I’ve recently had this theory. I’m like, is Kim Jong- one of the most vindicated men in history? He was seen as an insane person. Remember the movies and his liquor? Well, um his fundamental insight in 2002 was, “No, we can we don’t trust these people. We have to sprint to a nuke. We’re getting the Hbomb. We’re testing underground. We will establish a credible nuclear deterrent.” He dies and his son immediately pours all state resources into creating an ICBM and a credible a credible nuclear threat to the United States of America capable of hitting the United States homeland. And he in my opin my belief is Kim Jong-un will die of natural causes in his own bed because of that decision. That is the only way to assure that the United States will not mess with you. And now actually what Israel has created is a situation where the highly rational, you know, the highly rational decision after your entire military infrastructure has been, you know, infiltrated by Mossad. You’ve watched with impunity. You’ve seen diplomacy used as a ruse. I don’t see how we can’t either go down the regime change path again and or have a nuclear Iran. Now, on top of this, of course, is Israeli action. Prime Minister Netanyahu, according to the Jerusalem Post, um, which is, you know, an Israeli media outlet, they write that Prime Minister Netanyahu, one of the chief things he wants to secure from President Trump is the ability to conduct preemptive strikes anytime he wants on the Iranian nuclear program, which of course we were told was destroyed. If it was destroyed, I’m not sure why we need more preemptive strikes. But he wants a rolling green light for the future to be able to go in and take any of things out at the time, which of course would only harden the strategic resolve of that country if it can’t be done alone. Of course not. Which they proved. They actually proved that to us when they said, “We need you to come in and finish the job.” Well, and to protect our homeland from ballistic missiles raining down on our cities. So any Israeli and by the way I come at this you feel like you have to say it because you don’t want to be called a bigot again but like just in general I approve of and certainly understand every country’s obligation to act in its own interest including defensively. So I’m not even contesting Israel’s right to be worried about Iran. They probably should be. However, every strike by Israel on Iran by definition requires the involvement of the US military. Correct. So, we’re getting signed up for an endless war with Iran. Mhm. And at that point, it’s like, no, this is my country. No, but like I I’m getting Now I’m getting this is what I was saying about radicalism. This is the kind of thing that could make you radical, right? Yes. And it’s bad for us and it’s also bad for them. I mean, let’s take the April operation. A lot of people forget this. Why did Iran in April of 2024 launch all those ballistic missiles at Israel? It’s because Israel bombed an Iranian embassy in the middle of Syria. Now, according to them, it was an IRGC command center. Maybe um I would say there are CIA officers present in every US embassy in the world. So, I don’t particularly want to open up that bag of worms. I think there’s spies in literally every diplomatic mission, including in Washington, which probably crossed paths with many of those. I don’t think those are legitimate targets, nor should they be. We shouldn’t open that up. Well, it was because of that action that they knew would invite an Iranian response that Iran then launched those ballistic missiles against Israel. But who shot down all those missiles? You allowed to bomb people’s embassies? Yes, that’s well, according to them, as long as you designated a terrorist, you know, base by your own definition, I don’t even know if the United States ever actually technically signed off on that analysis, you’re able to do that. There have to be some limits, mutually agreed upon limits to behavior. You can’t just shoot someone for pissing you off, right? Okay. But you can’t shoot up churches, including the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, and you can’t bomb embassies, or else your embassies and your churches or your synagogues or your mosques or whatever, they’re all fair game. Like, you want to live in that world, right? It would be rightfully denounced as terrorism if that were done. There’s got to be some limit. What’s the limit? And and even more big than that, what I said at the time was one of the reasons I didn’t want us to defend Israel is I know that if they didn’t think that the US would come in and defend them, then they never would have done it in the first place is that it would have restricted their freedom of action and the freedom of action of the Iranians. And the most likely outcome between that was probably some sort of diplomatic solution if they were actually forced to deal with this problem on their own terms without the big brother United States or at the very least the big brother United States equally distributed to both parties in regards to trying to bring peace and balance to the region. But it’s our unending and unquestioning support which enables Israeli belligerent action in the region which then invites blowback both on them but also on us. Okay. I lived during the 12-day war with the United States government warning me about terrorist attacks in my homeland. That is like 2005 red terror levels. Remember flying back then? Very well. And and that is a psychological toll on our population which was literally being done for a foreign country and worrying about every US citizen. There are millions of United States citizens who live abroad who were told that they had to be careful and going about their daily business in whatever country they happen to be in. Now, let’s say that’s in response to 911. I Okay, we can justify that in terms of what the United States is doing after being attacked on our homeland. But for another, as you said, it’s too much. It can lead to radicalization. I’m trying to resist that poll. And I’m what I’m trying to do here on my show as well is to talk all about this in a rational way. That’s why I talk about Switzerland and Chile, just to put it in context, who this country is and what we allegedly get out of it. Let’s remove all of the veneer and the the smears and everything else. and let’s just talk in our own terms. And I have found that to be the enemy of the Ukraine discourse, of Israel discourse, of so much of the way that we orient ourselves. I mean, you know, I always think about the Munich Security Conference. What? Why? Why are we obsessed with the Munich Security Conference? Asia is 50% of GDP in 2030. We should be going to the Singapore Security Conference, and that’s the only one that actually should matter. But why do they all go to Munich? Oh, because they like Munich. They like Europe. They like going on vacation. A lot of them have studied there. They have this cultural affinity. I get it. I’m not saying that shouldn’t matter at all. But, you know, our forward le our forward-looking leaders even back in the 1930s and 40s always had a very cleareyed view of the ability to balance what was actually in US strategic interests. And I think we really lost that from the 1990s unipolar moment onwards. And I’m watching it happen again. So, you know, you ask me where this thing goes. It’s all basically it’s on Trump and his relationship with BB. I think I actually think he’s gambling his entire presidency on all of that right now. Yeah. And you know, I have no idea what’s going to happen. I believe they’re meeting as we’re speaking. Um I know them both and I, you know, but I don’t know. But I’ve got to say, of all the kind of filthy disasters in the world, the one that I would want to stay away from with the most enthusiasm is Gaza. Yeah. So, how is it that it’s America’s responsibility to unfuck Gaza? Yes. And that was the plan from day one. And what’s happened in Gaza is is not defensible. It’s it’s too much. I mean, the Isra said 17,000 children have been killed in Gaza. 17,000. I had to read it twice. They said that. So, I you know, I just citing them. There are lots of other estimates, but we’ll just go with the No, let’s go with the Israeli press, which are often more critical than ours, by the way. Right. Exactly. Well, they’re way more critical than ours, but um but let’s just go with that. Like I I think that that’s immoral as a Christian. I’m very offended. There were, by the way, Christians among those uh killed there. They did nothing wrong. I’m offended by that. But even if I supported that, which I don’t, I would say I don’t I don’t think I want to have anything to do with that. I don’t want to be tied to that. Why should I take responsibility for your crime? President Biden sent his humanitarian aid float show. Remember that quas cost probably at least a4 billion dollars. That entire deployment almost did nothing. Currently, American contractors, I’m sure you saw this, are involved in this food aid scheme which appears to basically just be like, look, I mean, I have to be honest here. It almost seems like a literal trap. Like there are hundreds of Palestinians who have literally been killed trying to get food. Is this the one run by an American evangelical preacher? This I I believe so. I mean, it’s these American contractors and this is set up through the United States government and all these private foundations. And I know this can get difficult, by the way. Even talking about this, I recently saw referred to as a literal blood liel is to mention the fact that people who were coming for aid were literally gunned down and murdered. That’s supposedly a blood liel um against the Jewish people. Like again, remove your rhetoric and let’s talk in the realm of facts. Your own newspapers are reporting the fact that hundreds of civilians were killed trying to get aid in Gaza. I’m repeating what your Israeli press is saying. I’m repeating what the independent press is saying, what the, you know, people in Gaza are saying as well to the extent that there’s any independent oversight of this whatsoever. And let’s return to the question of I think what both of our orientation is, is this good for our country? I would say no. You can, you know, you can talk in the realm spiritually. I would also just talk in the realm, we could talk in the realm of spiritually and like kind of what that means to normalize saying let’s kill children like Congressman Randy Fine or other members who are like openly celebrated and think it’s like a good thing. But we can even talk about what we said about national interest. Is it healthy? Is it normal to be obsessed with uh the way with defending supposedly the most moral army in the world when almost every counterterrorism and Iraq war veteran I know would be ashamed to have fought this way in the global war on terror. American troops. Look, we made a lot of mistakes, but you cannot fault the American soldier or the American marine, the American airmen for not at and many times putting their own lives on the line and many losing them to protect Iraqi and Afghan civilians. In fact, often that was a core part of our mission and they would, you know, look, I I don’t think it was worth it, but when required, they were willing to do so. And I haven’t seen that in the way that this war has been I haven’t either. But I I don’t understand why we would take responsibility for fixing Gaza. I mean that’s um we can’t fix Baltimore. What for real? Like you’re right. What? Yeah. Why should we? And this has been the plan from day one. And I want that’s what I was I was going to say is you remember back in November 2023 shortly after October 7th Israeli Knesset members and others were writing in the Wall Street Journal actually it’s the United States that should take in people from Gaza after we expel them or so the people of Gaza are so dangerous every person in Gaza including the children they’re all terrorists because it’s genetic. They’ve been saying that it’s genetic. What are we even talking about? Like what kind of what is this? It’s genetic. I can think of a a a widely discredited political movement in Europe that used to talk like that. It’s genetic. Whatever. Anyway, but they’re too dangerous to live next to. We can’t even have them in the region. You guys take them. That is the purest expression of contempt for the United States. I can imagine. And that was step one. Step two was all of these broad plans about US peacekeepers. Now it’s broadly evolved. They’re mostly trying to pass it off on the Gulf. But as you and I know, there’s no Gulf military that could potentially occupy Gaza. It would of course either have to be fully funded by the United States of America or probably would result in some sort of US troop presence in Jordan serving as the supply mission with some sort of neverending deployment that would put people at risk just like our current occupation in Syria where we continue to have hundreds of troops for what if anybody thinks you and I are conspiracy theorists let’s not forget that after this Israeli backed al-Qaeda takeover of Syria which was is I guess US and Israeli backed al-Qaeda takeover of Syria that the current there are current negotiations between the Israeli and US government right now. This is out in the open about the United States actually filling in areas of Syria that were taken over by Israel and occupying them as some sort of safe zone between Syria and between Israel. And again, first of all, this is a government supported by Israel and I guess by the United States now at this point. So why do the troops even need to be there? Also, we were told that we have to stand up against countries seizing territory like Putin and Ukraine. I literally watched the Greater Israel Project march forward, you know, in the in the last 2 years into Syria, of course, West Bank, um, and now with Gaza and the the the expansionist behavior there, which we just don’t talk about here at all. It’s it’s like a violation of our norms. I was going to It’s It violates every norm that we have about the way that a civilized nation were to conduct itself. It’s what we condemn. And isn’t that why we’re fighting Russia? Exact. Exactly. And that’s where the hypocrisy of it collapses in and of itself. And the only way it’s justifiable is earlier what we referred to this like bastardized Christian and rebbitical theological doctrine. My favorite was the former US ambassador David Freriedman trying to lecture you about Christian theology, right? And and he didn’t learn that much from that. He didn’t learn much, right? But it’s like what what and I mean my final point actually on that too and as you know, you know, there’s probably no more contempt than by a lot of the pro-Zionist movement for the actual Christian evangelicals who for whatever reason are so broadly supportive of Israel. They use them as pawn. They laugh at me. Oh, if they knew. Yeah, I wish they knew. And I I know a lot of them listen to you. I hope. Nice people. Good people. Yeah. I I you know, if you go if you ever go to uh Israel, probably 80% of their flight is going to be people from Alabama or, you know, from all across the American South who are going to the holy city, which is great. You know, that’s awesome. But while they’re there, they’re subjected to all of this end times propaganda about why it’s so important to support the state. And I think what’s really sick is that the government, the Israeli government, uses them as political pawns in our country when secretly they have nothing but contempt and laugh at them about, oh, they’re like, “Oh, look at these, you know, gross people in our streets or any of that.” There’s no actual appreciation. I remember asking Benjamin Netanyahu, I mean, over 20 years ago when um, you know, terrorists were occupying the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, which is a city in which Jesus was born. So it’s, you know, arguably the most important church in Christrysendom. And the IDF shot fired into the church, killed, I think a bell ringer. Um I think may have killed a monk. Anyway, killed Christians in a Christian church in a Christian city, formerly. It’s no longer a Christian city thanks to his occupation. But um and I just and I was totally for Israel. I’ve never been against Israel actually, which is the hilarious part. But um I remember saying to him like, “You’re using American weapons to fire into the Church of the Nativity.” This was on CNN at the time. And boy, it was like, “Well, you an anti-semite.” I know. I don’t I don’t want to fire into the church of the tip. Like, how is that okay? And why does everyone think it’s okay? It’s not okay. It’s not okay. Uh and it’s I mean we were talking yesterday about in the um you know the recent settler violence that happened against these Christian bill. I mean part of why I feel upset about this is not just about the you know we rightfully if you’re a Christian you should also care about other Christians but it’s like guys this is just a normal behavior in the entire in in the way that they act in this region and supported by the Israeli government. Now again uh as somebody who cares about my own country it would all be bad things happen all over the world. That’s a fact of life. But we us funding them, it becoming a major political issue in our country. Unfortunately, you’re turning people like us who I don’t look I ne Israel was never my number one issue. Never. I really did not particularly care. I spent time in the country and I liked it. That was kind of my I said this Palestinian thing is kind of messed up, but whatever. You know, it’s their business. Well, it was always like a lefty issue. all these people, you know, who you were, you don’t agree with them on anything and they’re running around talking about genocide and it’s like just stop. I had no desire like the last thing I want to do is get involved. I felt the same, but I felt compelled once I saw not only the level well I saw the level of which the LUD interest started basically becoming a part of the mainstream American right. Yeah. became even more concerned when I saw Lood interests running state laws, passing BDS laws on the books of multiple states in the United States, restricting the free speech rights of American citizens. Ronda Santis signs a censorship law, a you know, a blasphemy law in a foreign country. Right. In a foreign country. I like Dantis. That was the point where I was like, you’re disgusting. I can’t Ronda Santis who banned critical race theory then basically starts affirmative action for Jewish students in the state of Florida that I can’t genuinely think of a better representation of the modern American but it just destroyed Ronda Santis and I really liked Ronda Santis. I knew him pretty well. I always tried my best in my limited way to promote Ronda Santis because I thought he did such a marvelous job during co in Florida. I was in Florida for part of that and I was like oh you’re great and he was totally destroyed by this one issue. Well, I because it it was totally in it was utterly inconsistent with everything else he was saying. It’s like, wait, we’re against affirmative action. We’re against blasphemy laws. I thought they’re Americans. We have a First Amendment. How can you travel to a foreign country and sign a law restricting my speech rights? You’re exactly right. The University of California system, the largest state in our country, is now saying that any organization that supports BDS will have all any federal grant money pulled. I mean, listen, this is insanity. This is Yes, that happened. I think it happened a couple of days ago. Uh they’re warning students not Can you boycott the United States? Can you boycott other states? Of course you can. Of course you can. And that’s my point is that it’s genuinely all just about a foreign nation and it’s in one political party’s interests and then hijacking it in ours. And I guess I should give the disclaimer as you said, like you do, cuz I already know the inevitable. I’m not an anti-semite. I spent a long time in Israel. I like Israel. I have people who I would consider genuine family who are literally Israeli and living in Israel. I love them. It is not about them. It’s about their government. It’s about their party. And more specifically, it’s actually about my country’s relationship with them. I wish them nothing but the best. And I actually I just wish we just treated it like any other country. I have affinity for Switzerland, Japan, India. I mean, I’ve been all over the world, which is one of the great blessings of my life. And I just want I want to look at our relationship with all those countries on a relatively equal basis and just say okay what are we getting from this and what are we getting from that and instead I’ve watched this religion both around support for Israel but Ukraine and NATO I mean NATO is a religion as you know it it’s it’s transformed itself into a religion and not a defensive alliance and watching that happen has been one of the most frustrating events of my life because the consequences in both of these These cases are so dire for the people who elect a lot of these representatives to power. And I mean, we’re we we got lucky that the 12-day war ended when it did. But to say that that’s the final solution is ridiculous because again, Israel bombs Iraq in 1981. Mission accomplished. Yes or no? Israel bombed Syria’s reactor program in 2007. Mission accomplished. Did Did it stop there? Gaddafi gave up his nukes. It’s Is it only just about nukes? Of course, it’s not about nukes. It’s about regime change. That’s what they want. They’re open about it. And you know, plea, everyone watch Israeli television. There are a lot of people who translate it. They bragging about this stuff out in the open about killing gazins, about regime change, about the way that they manipulate the United States. They say it in Hebrew. Ask your friend. There a lot of Hebrew speakers here in America. They can translate it for you. It’s sickening. It’s out in the open. I mean, they make Fox they put Fox News to shame, a lot of these people, which is hard to do. Which is very hard to do. Boy, I I I just I’m praying for Trump. I’m praying for this is the last political solution to our problems. And I think we I all my hope is in Trump and I hope that the administration course corrects and uh and does it really soon. Yeah, I think they need to on that issue with Epstein and broadly, you know, you were elected on a message about America first and just so blatantly putting another country’s interests ahead of our own is not going to go unnoticed by a large segment of the American public and specifically younger people who are suffering right now. The US economy right now is a disaster. um the ability to buy a house rates are very high from the f that’s one thing he’s correct about Trump you know especially on the federal reserve about high interest rates about the fact uh that we have like a collapse of social trust I spent a long time talking about gambling we’re watching extractive industries get richer and richer on the backs of a lot of uh ordinary and workingclass people are getting worse probably every single year and you know just touting GDP and oh tax cuts for the rich and all this stuff I I don’t think people can put up with all of that together. I agree. And and and you have three and a half years left. You know, you can still make a change if you want to. For people who aren’t familiar with your show, where do they find it? Breaking Points. Breaking Points on YouTube, Spotify, wherever you find it. Congratulations on your welldeserved success. Um and I hope you’re an inspiration to many others. Well, you’re an inspiration to me. I owe a lot all my career to you. Uh and so I I have to say that. Thank you very much. Thank you for giving me I didn’t do anything. We just hired a lot of people at low wages which I guess is kind of what you’re decrying. But great to see you. It worked out though. Thank you. Thank you.
Why is Pam Bondi’s Justice Department covering up Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes and murder? Saagar Enjeti has a theory.
Saagar Enjeti is the host of “Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar” available on YouTube and podcast platforms. Saagar previously worked at The Daily Caller as a White House correspondent.
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#TuckerCarlson #SaagarEnjeti #JeffreyEpstein #PamBondi #DonaldTrump #ElonMusk #CIA #Mossad #Israel #Iran #gambling #debt #news #politics @breakingpoints
Chapters:
0:00 Apparently Jeffrey Epstein Is Innocent Now?
09:20 The Suspicious Life of Robert Maxwell
11:00 How the Kennedy Assassination Broke America
13:34 The Dark Truth About the Epstein Cover-Up
25:18 The Real Reason Pam Bondi Won’t Release the Files
33:25 Why Doesn’t American Foreign Policy Reflect American Interests?
45:18 How Identity Politics Have Infected the Right
56:32 The Moment Saagar Realized How the Corporate Media Machine Truly Works
1:09:50 How the Deep State Turns Journalists Into Mindless Pawns
1:21:03 Elon Musk’s America Party
1:30:27 The Massive Sports Gambling Scam
1:38:48 How Politicians and Legislators Use Debt to Exploit Young People and Get Rich
1:43:45 The Epstein Cover-Up Is Insulting and Very Dangerous
1:51:06 The Future of the Iran Conflict
2:03:09 Why Is the US Responsible for Fixing Gaza?
2:09:09 Are Christians Required to Support the Israeli Government?
2:16:28 The Future of Trump’s Presidency
46 comments
I think the cabinet should get their asses out of the seat and make room for someone who's capable of telling it all.
Sports betting is similar to short duration stock options in my opinion.
Thank you both.
I'll never vote again in this ridiculous charade. Trump is a jew 🏳️🌈👬.
tucker and his guest are showing their true convictions. not a pretty sight
it is good for us to recognize who hates us
How can you actually trust anyone who believes, as Saagar Enjeti obviously does, that the u.S. government has the right to know ANYTHING about a Citizens personal and private banking transactions??? Mr. Enjeti lost all credibility with this statement. The 4 Amendment guarantees that the government has NO RIGHT to access your personal and private information, including banking information, without the due process of law! Our Constitution becomes more and more meaningless with each passing hour………..
Blah Blah Blah. Who is this Karen?
Wait, does Tucker really not know the truth about the Polio vaccine????
Biggest cover ups are JFK assassination and USS Liberty in the Mediterranean.
All of the people who are involved with the cover up should resign, if they want to keep their honor!
"Mr.T got his wife via Mr. E connects"
26:30 I lose him on this. Trump literally ran modeling pageants for decades and was known to be constantly maneuvering back stage. I don’t even care about the stormy daniels shit but come on, hard to excuse him for being on the lolita express 7 times, at a bunch of parties and photos with the guy and ghislaine, and being completely unaware or unaffiliated?
Please don't forget the diddy list as well.thank u.
The biggest job the Devil has is to make you believe he doesn’t exist.
Tucker, please stop talking about Christians and our role in supporting Israel. You are so wrong. Maybe you should have a sit down with Amir and have your mind blown. You can have your opinions about whatever goes on in the world but the Bible is not for opinions. You are using your platform to cause division. True Christians, not just people who say they are, the Church will always support Israel. Tribulation will be an awful time for those left behind. I won't be here to see your interviews.
Far from being a rebel, Trump acted as a court jester in a kingdom ruled by financiers and intelligence agencies, taking orders from the Israeli lobby, the Mossad, and the transnational families who control the levers of global finance.
Their must be something bigger than "EPTEIN conspiracy theory" going on….Because the last time they want us ALL to talk about something…LOOK HERE..because something WAY more important is going on OVER THERE as we speak…God help us either way😮😢
Dr Michael Yeadon
CONTAGION IS A LIE
https://youtu.be/bgOZ64oJo6U?si=TGhx8CSyIeAlc6v9
Virginia giuffre was just an anomaly also?
Enough already… We'll never find out…. tired of hearing about this
I’m so sick of this shit!!!!! Thank you Tucker and Sagaar
Jeffrerey is not dead
1:26:46 Tucker for president
Thank You Both.
Legendary.
Shared.
🇺🇸
Gotta stop hating! You had to know the well meaning new admin would be threatened, coerced and bribed. Kinda the same way all the smart free thinkers had to be bribed, bullied, coerced, threatened to take an experimental injection for a treatable flu.
We are plebs, peasants, slaves and it doesn't matter what we think and know. Ignorance WAS bliss
We the people are worried for our children and the direction of this country! Looking back at 9-11 and all the following wars and BS lies. Its hard to have faith in these people running (ruining) our country! Its obvious who pulls the strings. On the flip side of this coin, how evil are they whom control us and how deep is that evil? I think the child sex trafficking is just the tip! I think most of us can't fathom what the Hell is going on here or don't want to. All I want is a free country!
Epstein is not dead
https://youtube.com/watch?v=i7rDOOW6Y5o&si=Hodtge1Nn-GrKJQX
There are so many things that we could all say about this case, but it's just absolutely hilarious and there is just nothing else to say further than that. Are we surprised that this is the outcome?
So either, Epstein was unalived by someone else, or he is alive and it's all a lie. I don't even wanna dive into the facts. It's a coverup either way you look at it, whether he killed himself (he wouldn't do that), or is alive.
Whole Trump admin and his people were meat riding this for a whole year + and now they are covering it up and lying. As far as I'm concerned, Trump's comments were absolutely disgusting as well, where he was trying to gaslight the media for asking a question and saying "Kids are dying because of this flood" yeah nice try buddy, we know you're somewhere on that list as well.
The only reasons Dems wouldn't release the list either is because both parties are way closer aligned than they want you to ever believe, and they are both being controlled by someone else and being told and forced to not disclose this info because it would implicate people on both sides, extremely famous people, etc.
And this happening after Diddy got off with extremely lesser charges is zero shocker.
Meet the new boss….
the regarded really thought Trump was gonna release incriminating files on himself
Today when Trump called Epstein creepy it pissed me off, mad as heck. He was a child predator and want to know who the children serviced. Everyone knows he is dead, it isn’t about Epstein anymore. It’s BS and my feeling are they have taken a page from the Democrats. My ideas about the administration is truly different now.
The darkness is very dark. You do not cross the darkness who do run things. DO NOT MESS WITH THE DARKNESS OR YOU WILL NOT BE.
tucker: I wonder what the recourse is?
you goddam know
They obviously just assume that we will believe anything we are told. Its truly insulting to people's intelligence. My guess is that there is both Republican and Democrats names on the list. If there wasn't one of the political parties would have used the list against the other long ago. And now the President is telling people to move on ? This from a President who dwells on things for years. Nobody beats a dead horse like President Trump. Im a Trump supporter but this really looks bad. Pam Bondi should be fired for sure. She definitely mishandled the entire situation. Nobody believes anything she is saying. I actually thought a person like Dan Boningino had more integrity that this. And does Ghislaine Maxwell get pardoned now?
Fantastic show and what a gr8 organization dutch must be..wish we had that here.
This cannot rest. We need to keep pressing
Why doesn't anyone ever mention what happened at the close of business on the day before Epstein was suicided? Alan Douchewits came to see Epstein in prison. As he was leaving, he gave a speech on the front steps. He said they'd settled financial matters, and that the following day, Jeffrey was going to name names.
Someone needs to take a deep look into Alan Douchewits.
Virginia Giuffre accused him too. And his loyalties are to Israel, not the United States; he's made that abundantly clear. His vitriol is only matched by Ben Gvir's.
2:05:26 I was told it was a conspiracy 😂
Could this be amplification operation to use the Streisand Effect to magnify the damaged to the Epstein clients when the final comppletr release of the demning information is made?
Soo in a nutshell we have some of the most powerful people in the world from some of the biggest names in business to politicians involved in the sex trafficking of minors and for whatever reason our leaders want to cover it up. Wouldn't be surprised given what we learned about intelligence agencies in the previous videos if they were involved too. Once again thanks for creating transparency and accountability, Tucker.
Tucker always claims to be honest. Then shows his true bias with these guests of his. Everyone has an angle, and his is obvious 😮
These men are smarter than me. 😢
Why do we care if CIA is exposed in courts?
13:06
Dutch vet service should use AI
Two of my favorites!
That’s what y’all voted for
Comments are closed.