So yesterday the nurse was cleared by NHS Fife from misgendering a colleague and being a bully. Then today, the nurse was accused by NHS Fife of behaving in an unacceptable way towards a colleague and misgendering them. This does not reflect well on NHS Fife at all. What a farce.
by Red_Brummy
22 comments
Couldn’t have been that unacceptable if there was nothing to answer at the disciplinary.
I saw a snippet of the live proceedings and the NHS person was being asked about the claim that Peggie was “confrontational”, which apparently she was but when asked if there was any raised voice or aggressive behaviour or abusive language the answer was no. The “confrontation” was literally just “you shouldn’t be here”.
The whole thing is an omnishambles and a absolute disgrace to the NHS, every single manager, HR person etc involved needs fired.
Sorry, but… she’s a nurse. She deals with horrible shit all the time but can’t handle being in the presence of a trans woman minding her own business? It’s absurd how much this country has demonised trans people. They are more hated than the actual abusers they try to make trans people out to be.
She wasn’t “cleared” the report just didn’t corroborate the allegations. The allegations stand, it wasn’t proven to be a “malicious lie” or any of the other nonsense people have been saying here. If course the accusation is still in the tribunal, it hasn’t been disproven.
The Head of Nursing claimed Peggie should’ve handled her concerns about sharing facilities differently. But that’s just their opinion.
Peggie has been cleared of gross misconduct with NHS Fife stating there was insufficient evidence to support a finding of misconduct.
This could have all been avoided had the nurse just minded her own damn business
Its mental isn’t it?
One of the witnesses today said (with a straight face) that they had no other complaints about it, but then said that it is automatically disciminatory to complain. Proper catch 22 stuff
[Tribunal tweets are attempting to cover this](https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1945853426648187209)
> NC – so it was discriminatory to raise the issue **at all?** [Emphasis added]
> GM – yes.
> J – time for a 5 minute break I think.
so the
>Gillian Malone – who is head of nursing at NHS Fife – said nurse Sandie Peggie should have raised concerns about sharing facilities with Dr Beth Upton – a trans woman – in a different way.
different way didn’t actually exist? I think the Judge realised that
reading the goings on, I’m getting the impression that NHS Fife may have had policies and procedures books, but they seem to have been *sitting on some shelf in a disused toilet in a basement behind a be aware of the leopard sign*
I cannot understand what NHS Fife are up to here. First rule of these things is to back down as soon as it is obvious you are in the wrong. Dragging it out only looks terrible for the organisation. Cannot believe how many HR people, Legal people etc inside NHS Fife are dying on the ‘Beth Upton is not a dude’ hill.
The internal investigation found “insufficient evidence” of gross misconduct. So they couldn’t substantiate sacking her and referring her to the regulator for a professional standards review.
They’ve advised “facilitated reflective practice”; essentially she’s not currently performing to the professional standards required.
Who the fuck does she think she is? Penis police? As a nurse, she should be ashamed to be so disrespectful and nosey. An embarrassment for anyone that takes the Nightingale Pledge.
This doesn’t mean I agree with all the wording guidelines and absurd cushioned language consultancies like stonewall are pushing into the NHS through guilt, but that’s a singular human being who is as worthy of respect, compassion, and boundaries as anyone else and this nurse has absolutely no right. Hope she spends the rest of her life being misgendered and disrespected for her mediocrity.
Edit: there’s no nightingale pledge here! Regardless, you chose to be a nurse, at least be a caring human being?
The problem is that there was no acceptable way for her to object to a male using the female changing rooms. She was being punished for having a problem with the male doctor’s intrusion.
Imagine not even giving the transphobia a rest on Christmas Eve. “You’re a man, Merry Christmas” – a colleague I’d avoid like the plague.
Ah, I didn’t see this thread:
Reading through Tribunal Tweets rough transcription a few other things stand out-
Her reaction to hearing about the incident was to recommend SP be sent on ‘trans awareness training’. This was prior to even the establishment of the investigation which would go on to clear SP.
She doesn’t believe it was possible for SP to confront DU in the changing rooms without it being harrassment. Despite the internal investigation now finding the opposite. She believes the only route to raise concerns was through line management, despite 2 earlier complaints on that path being ignored.
She defended NHS Fife’s policy (the one the Diversity Lead yesterday advised did not exist) as being the result of NHS Fife ‘taking advice’- but we also know from yesterday that this ‘advice’ was from an informal group of non-legally qualified ‘Diversity Leads’ and included no mention of the Crofts dicta or the requirement in law to respect the protected nature of GC beliefs.
In the afternoon it emerged that the risk assessment which lead to the suspension was prepopulated with an assessment and conclusion supporting suspending SP prior to being sent to the relevant manager for completion.
It also emerged that the decision to revoke the suspension was taken when NHS Fife received a letter from a solicitor instructed by Peggie demanding to know why she had been suspended without proper cause, at this point- months down the line NHS Fife first took formal legal advice- the content of which is obviously privileged- but led to an immediate reassessment and SP being permitted back to work, albeit on different shifts.
Which, from earlier witnesses, is also the point Upton’s patient care allegations are first recorded in writing.
She admitted that, with the inclusion of DU in the female changing rooms, NHS Fife offered no single sex spaces to change in. That is a pretty big admission in the context of this tribunal. She also agreed that the integrity of the investigation had been compromised when the department wrote to SP ordering her to discuss the case with no-one outside of her legal representatives. Meanwhile, Dr Searle, Dr Upton’s line manager, had circulated Upton’s version of events, in writing, to every consultant in the Hospital.
There are also emails between management conducting the investigation, which included individuals who had received Searle’s letter, discussing how to stop Peggie from using male pronouns regarding Upton during interviews. This appears to have occupied quite a lot of attention- a problem when GC views are supposedly legally protected.
She also admitted that a male staff member’s presence in the female changing rooms would ordinarily constitute sexual harrassment and that claiming to be a gender non conforming woman would not be a defence.
Although, ofc, she does not believe Upton fits that description.
It is not looking good for NHS Fife.
Sounds like nhs fife is rotten to the core
British transphobia is honestly insane. I can’t believe how backwards the country has become.
NHS Fife and DU are in trouble. None of their arguments make any sense. No policies, investigation pre completed. Someone on HR pointed out they were on shaky ground and said they should not suspend SP but she was ignored.
NHS Fife ignored confidentiality around the case even though they tried to enforce confidentiality on SP. They were suggesting she was the person who leaked the case to the press and everyone else.
IB didn’t know about workplace regulations, she didn’t know about article 8, she didn’t know about the EA, she didn’t know about the stonewall scheme, didn’t seem to know very much in fact. She didn’t know if she was a woman but she knew DU was.
Everyone was following policy even though there is no policies in place.
Lots of people on nhs fife should be loosing their job over this, it’s a shambles and it shows.
Is misgendering someone against the law or NHS policy now?
Dr Upton has cost the NHS nearly a quarter of a million pounds over this.
Certainly makes this nurse look like an absolute piece of shit.
The trans obsession on this sub is tedious AF.
How much public money has been wasted on this shitshow.
You don’t have to misgender and be rude to someone to raise a concern about sharing the space. This is what people don’t understand. That’s why it’s discrimination.
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