We find 12% for the AfD too high; and 20% existentially dangerous.
The French redditors say to me, there isn’t any problem in France, if close to 50% of the vote goes to Le Pen, [who wants to end the French-German treaty](https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-france-election-2022-president-end-of-europe-as-we-know-it/). Ending that partnership, by the way, is essentially a French “Brexit”. The projections have Le Pen above 45%. That’s not nothing.
Last time we thought, they won’t be so stupid, the Brits did it anyway, the Russians did it anyway, the Americans did it anyway.
No problems, say those outside the Macron vote: German, go home.
(And we took COVID patients from the exact regions that will vote for Le Pen. The grand east.)
I thought, the right-wing threat was in the East. Not anymore, it’s in the West, too.
45% to 48%.
42 comments
Le Pen winning means bye bye EU.
Hate is hell of a drug
As an American who’s not convinced we’ve seen the last of Trump, I can say that these are strange times. I don’t understand the hate that drives people to vote for politicians like Le Pen, and I don’t know what can be done to stop it.
Bless your little cotton socks: I’m sat over here in Blighty with *Bojo the bloody Clown* who “Got Brexit Done”. FML
Problem is also the French election system.
Left candidates would have 30 percent but split over for
So only the right wing and the center in gets sent of the to the vote
And in that u either vote for a neo liberal who will make the rich richer or a right wing nut head who will do the same but promises to help the simple person… And deal with cost of living.
Never underestimate the power of stupid. You can laugh about it but never underestimate them.
The French voting system is quite strange to me. With >20% AfD would probably be part of coalition talks where they would be watered down by their coalition partners. In contrast in France >20% for RN only gives a chance for the second round of voting and suddently it changes to an all-or-nothing game. When choosing between two candidates personal sympathy or personal resentment seem to play a much bigger role than politics. That makes me worried. Although <50% still means that you win nothing and those votes are not to be interpreted as only support but resentment towards you competitor. But I am also worried.
>(And we took COVID patients from the exact regions that will vote for Le Pen. The grand east.)
I really do not like this argument. Politics should never play a role in medical support. And to be fair, many Alsacians work on the German side of the border and they were and are not always treated well. Particularly during the “foreigner=covid-suspect” panics in 2020. We really like to show local arrogance against the French at the border regions. That is not forgotten.
The last thing is just a hypothesis for the Grand Est: Since the Grand Est is economically better of compared to other regions of France and they have been disappointed by the ineffective French centralism on many accounts, there is also a frustration with regards to domestic politics.
The EU is unfortunately a ghost of itself. No wonder that some countries try to get back to their own decisions. I mean in a economic way it’s the best thing for all of us, but the regulations and paperwork is just crazy.
I am German-French, and it’s hurt’s a lot to see stuff like that…
Usually politicians use the bad economic situation and reflect how these is due to past decisions and reflect on how the bad guys have done this our countries, they will then focus their rhetoric on the less educated, poorer people who don’t have enough critical skills and or capacities to be able to understand they are being played. This is how the rule of the far right come to existence, they use ultra nationalistic stances aganist immigrants, humiliation in a previous wars, lost pride, or even religion. There is one word that sums this: demagoguery
I hope for a win for Le Pen. And tbh 48% for AfD would be awesome 😀
and now let the downvote beginn xD
Le Pen’s party don’t score anywhere close to that in general or European elections so I think the comparison is either naive or misleading.
Every country has a bunch of people who just want to break things. Yes, it is stupid but there you have it.
The EU is a shadow of it’s former self.
In its current state its closer to a dictatorship than an actual political union.
Fuck the EU. Go Le Pen! Your Victory will have an impact on the whole european union. <3
Make France french again!
Imagine telling a French person at the end of World War 2 that one day there would be a right-wing racist threat from France against European peace, defended by a left-wing German government… All while another right-wing threat from Russia has already started war in Europe including crimes against humanity. It’s crazy.
anything over 0% is already too much for the extreme right.
It’s not hate that drives right wing politicians.
It’s the downfall of their country by socialists/globalists.
European Culture is being Eroded.
Our fundamental freedoms taken away.
Be it the right to defend yourself or your freedom of speech.
All gone.
Everyone that talks shit about Le Penn has no fkn clue what Macron did over the last years. How much the french people suffered.
Here some facts for you:
Every day 2 churches get vandalized/burned.
There are No Go zones where you shouldn’t be walking if you are white. People get beheaded for criticizing Islam.
Oh and Macron himself said that he does not support your right to defend yourself.
Just weeks ago 3 guys of african nationality broke into a farmers home where his three year old daughter was sleeping. In order to defend his home and family he shot one of the burglars. And what did macron do? Throw him under a bus and speak openly about how bad it is to defend your own life.
Please for the love of god get some more info on whats going on.
I have no idea about French political or social systems, but as a common person I have a feeling that France is quite diverse country with large diasporas from ex French colonies as well as other countries. Aren’t they the ones who should be a good deal of opposition to Le Pen? Is it the same thing as in Germany – people are spending their lives here, paying taxes, embracing the culture but are not allowed to vote? Or is it the same thing as with some diasporas in Germany who have been living for quite some time in Germany and are opposed to new people coming in without realising that they are in fact foreigners themselves?
Sorry for naïve questions. Again, I’m just a common person with no particular knowledge of the situation and just trying to figure it out.
now what? the french will decide, and we should let them. if they vote for Le Pen, they have to deal with the consequences. same as if they vote for Macron
Germany is facing Reality and thats what you fear, Not le Pen, but ending several political discurses Which were only grown on Germans.
Maybe some countries will start on building a real immigration program and improve the education system. And suddenly there wont be any votes left for idiots.
The voters of right-wing parties, no matter where in the world, always seem to me like they don’t really understand what they’re voting for. The right-wing parties have reached a point where they are basically straight-up openly evil. They could probably act like cartoon-villains and still get votes. It’s frustrating, to say the least. Infuriating, really.
It hurts the common man the most. I’m German, currently living in France, and it is SO nice to just be able to use my phone and Pers (ID) to do everything. No border checks, no Reisepass, no special phone contract for foreign mobile data or calls or sms. I literally only had to jump on a train and move into my apartment here at the cote dazure and that was that. No extra work is required. And it’s the same for French people coming to Germany.
Would hate to see France become the cancer that is current Britain
“The right-wing threat” LOL
Clown fest on Reddit on a daily basis…
If you think MLP represent the hard fascist extreme-right, ask yourself who remove all freedom from their people and insulted them right on public television, increased economical struggle, increased violence on the street, used public money to pay McKinsey on many topics which ended up to be a total disaster after billions of €…
Stop thinking so “left and right” and think about the consequence that Macron and his ego would have for the country in the next 5 years. Cause don’t worry he’s gonna win any way with beavers thinking “we need to barrage the hate” and vote for ideas they don’t agree with just because MLP has a bad name rep…
But just like you, when Macron wins, the same people that voted for him will be protesting on the street anyway.
And we’ll endure the same thing for 5 more years: poverty, violence, depression.
How bad Macron sucks that this stupid evil hack has even a ghost of a chance. France is so fucked. It is *not at all* saved if Macron wins.
Import more Islam into Germany and you will see AfD becoming the biggest party.
Let me guess, the established parties have ignored more and more citizen’s complaints and been basically driven away.
If you don’t treat your voters right, it’s just logical they move away. Same happening in germany.
let’s rain some history books over the whole globe, seems like everywhere s need for it!
Weird thing about AfD is that I heard much more hateful words towards Turkish-Germans growing up.
Note: I’m Turkish, born and living in Turkey.
I guess that a certain percentage of Trump/LePen/Orban etc. voters are protest voters who are mainly not happy about the present governments and want to vote against them (against Obama, against Macron etc), but do not ultimately want in all consequence what they are actually voting for now. And when they’ll wake up in 2 or 5 years it will be too late, e.g. Brexit etc. – that’s the dangerous thing about too many too stupid voters. But we do not have a better system so far.
Its the French. Its not that anyone is really expecting them to make smart decisions. I mean theyre choice is between an idiot and a maniac, just like in the US. Thats why I prefer dictatorships such as in Hungary.
It’s about immigration.
It’s always about immigration. No one gives a shit about the treaty. The treaty would be strong if we didn’t have the migrant crisis and let practically half the 3rd world into Europe and change the entire face of Europe forever. That’s all regular people care about, and politicians attach whatever else onto the issue as they can’t just start forcibly removing people.
It’s why England left the EU, it’s potentially why France would leave the EU as well.
Yeah the comments and the way you guys talk about voters on the other side is part of the problem here. A lot of the left clearly holds contempt for those with a different view. Sometimes it’s hate but more often than not it’s alienation which drives these populist parties. MLP voters are probably fed up of being ignored and patronised by arrogant left wingers who talk about them like they’re a plague and have nothing to say about them besides the classic buzz words, like calling them racist. It didn’t work in 2016 and made a lot of fence sitters vote for Brexit and the same happened the same year again with Trump. It obviously hasn’t worked again this time because MLP is polling significantly higher than the last election.
It’s a scenario that only comes to be because of the frankly bizarre notion of a presidential system.
It’s very hard to imagine it happening in Germany even if AfD was still popular and a force to be reckoned with. They’ve been second in absolute number of votes in at least some state parliaments, but they could never form a government of their own.
While I like Macron’s role in international politics, his handling of the gilets jaunes protests was less than abysmal, and I said back then already it’s hard to imagine a world were his colossal and repeated fuckups don’t hand le Pen the election.
Whatever happens kids, just remember: it’s the neoliberal asshats that bring right-wing extremists into the parliaments.
Well it wasn’t the AfD who put germany into full dependency on Russian Gas.
So as bad as they might be, i believe we have much bigger Issues with our “socially acceptable” parties.
Same is for France which happened to deliver War Material to Russia until 2020 which is currently used against Ukraine.
Who exactly was in power at that time? Not Le Pen if i recall correctly.
Yeah, Le Pen had to take money from a Russian Bank. But why was that? Ah yes, because “democratic” people refused them to get any money locally. Because being right equals the ultimate evil.
Kind of remembers me of the old “Kauft nicht beim Juden.”
And we can all see where this whole bs led us to. Thanks.
So if anyone wonders why so many are leaning towards the right parties. It is because the other side looks much more ugly right now. And that should not be. But especially in germany i do not see any change for the better as AfD meanwhile is pretty much established everywhere.
People are not voting Le Pen because of hate, but mostly because of poverty. Poverty that has been driven by the EU.
Most Le Pen voters don’t care about Germany, they are just desperate to see that no matter who they have voted for, they kept getting poorer and their children got less job opportunities.
Also, most french people highly resent Macron for many reasons and voting Le Pen is perceived as a way to “piss off the elites”.
At some point, anyone should try to understand what drives such people and politicians instead of bashing and basically projecting their own hate and mistrust on others. This has been good advice during the recent Trump era, too and it’s always necessary.
Imagine only the FDP and AFD were running in the election. I’d be resignated too.
As a French: What did you expect?
We’ve got 3 presidents in a row that were clearly favoring the rich, with Macron doing twice as much as the past 3 president combined to destroy the social security and balance of our country.
Europe had a really shitty handling of the Greek crisis and now Covid crisis, and we feel like Germany is dictating policies instead of our own politicians (or more accuratly, they are using Europe as a scapegoat)
We now have crisis after crisis and prices went straight up because mondialisation means we don’t produce our things ourselves, and we rely on other countries to produce them. Guess what happens when those others countries reduce their production? Prices go up and we can’t do shit about it. Food is up 40% in the last 6 months, just as an everyday example.
And finally, it feels more and more like Macron did what they warned Lepen would. Freedom of the press is long gone, Macron forced laws by using 49.3 and talks about us like we’re ants under their boots, the biggest manifestations (Gilet jaunes) was ignored by the politician and repressed in violence.
So yes, I and a lot of other people are starting to think that Lepen might not be the worst of the two. And I would never though I would think this until 6 months ago, but here we are. The regular political class has abandonned us, the EU is creating more problems than it is solving, so we are looking elsewhere.
Well… France has a ghetto problem; and a terrorism problem. I can see why people want a change.
It’s just a pity the change isn’t coming from reasonable politicians.
I mean, that sounds logical. Left parties get “leftier”, right parties get “rightier” and the Average Joe has to choose the lesser evil. Not much middle ground left.
A lot of people here saying that these who vote for people like Le Pen are voting for hate, but that’s not how it works. If a citizen is bothered by a certain thing, they’ll vote for the person / party who promises to deal with that.
But of course these days online safe spaces and bubbles only solidify one’s views, so it’s gets harder and harder to get the point across to people with different views. So it becomes the “us vs them” mentality which further divides the society.
Wilkommen nach Amerika!
I recently heard somewhere that it is easier to make people hate than to inspire them. Apparently, that is what the Russians like to do with their “influence” in cyber space too. Just recently I watched some youtube videos about the upcoming French elections and many trolls were there to whip up the hate against Macron in the comments. Many far right parties in Europe are sponsored by the state of Russia because these parties can wreak great havoc on the EU and the carefully built alliances that have developed over many years. I never understood why European people like the rhetoric of disunity among nations and why they think that will solve anything. Europeans had disunity among themselves for hundreds of years and it was bloody. I would not want to go back to those times where almost no nation respected borders in Europe and there was always a war to gain more territory. The EU ended that and Europe has had prosperity and no wars finally. Well, up until dear Putler decided that it is better to go back to the stone age and act like idiots in Ukraine. And Russia is financing all those parties in the EU that are for dissolving any unity Europeans have had enjoyed for many years now. Unfortunately, many people can thank themselves for their short-sighted thinking in Europe.