Krystal And Saagar GRILL Dem Senator On Epstein, Zohran, Israel

Krystal And Saagar GRILL Dem Senator On Epstein, Zohran, Israel

Joining us now is Senator Alyssa Slotkin of Michigan Senator. Very thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate we have a very limited amount of time. Uh this is the internet. So you’re here and uh it’s important that we ask some of the questions that are animating some of the younger voters and others. I assume that’s part of the reason that you’re here. The first is about Jeffrey Epstein. It’s a story that’s really captured a lot of America’s interest. So you’re a former CIA officer. Do you think that Jeffrey Epstein had any connections to US or Israeli intelligence agencies? So, not that I’ve ever seen or heard, but there’s a really No, I haven’t asked, but you know, this is like a solvable question because President Trump’s CIA director, John Radcliffe, can answer this question, right? The there is um no shortage of people in this administration who can answer that question. I would be very surprised. I’m going to be honest. I know your views on it. I would be surprised. Okay. Um but I’m like a Middle East analyst. I was doing my time going after terrorist groups and militias in Iraq and um so I just I never saw it. I never heard anything about that. I again would be surprised. But there’s an easy way to solve that problem. Well, that’s the question then. So in terms of uh because I know you’ve expressed some concern about classified information, etc. in the past. Would you be fine then with a full release of these Trump Epstein files even if they did reveal an intelligence connection? Yeah. I mean, I think at this point like it’s just it’s such a distraction from in in my mind like what I really care about, which is helping people like live well in Michigan. Um, just get it over with and get it out. And and this wasn’t like my issue. It’s still not the thing that wake, you know, wakes me up in the morning and I want to work on, but I think it’s it’s okay to say it’s a full distraction now in Washington. Everyone’s talking about it. So, just unveil it. Do whatever you need to do. answer the questions and move past it. Well, that’s the last question then. So, there’s some accusations here from the Republicans on Epstein here just about, you know, why didn’t you care for over four years? I know you asked the question in 2020. He said, I don’t care particularly about Bill Clinton, etc. I mean, that’s somewhat understandable, but you know, we do have like a person very suspicious circumstances let alone let alone, you know, the sex trafficking organization others. So, you know, why don’t you answer that question like why is this now is the time that you do care particularly care? It’s I mean it’s horrible when you have a pedophile and someone who had a literal pyramid scheme of recruiting 14 and 15year-old girls for illegal sex. I mean it’s horrible. Um at the time I mean I sort of saw it as like one of these horrible stories that comes out every five months you know about somebody. Um I think the Weinstein thing had happened. Um there weren’t Michiganders to my knowledge who were involved. You know women young girls who were involved. So I kind of saw it as like a horrible moment but not particularly something that’s like gonna decide whether someone in my state can buy a house or get a good job. So it to me it was just like a um it wasn’t like a strategic issue right for me. And then um now it just is like grown and I think there is a difference between saying some rich guy or a former politician was named in those things versus the president of the United States. That to me is a is apples to oranges because one of them is leading the free world and one of them’s not. So if his name is in there as it appears it is just like deal with it and let’s get on with it at this point. And you know my 10-year-old nephew understands that the president is trying to dodge, trying to distract, trying to talk about other things. He hates answering this question. Like we get it. So it it feels off to the average person, right? to a 10-year-old, they’re like, “Did he do something?” Right? So, just get through it, get it out, and let’s move on to real sorry for me, like real economic issues. So, then a piece of legislation comes forward, you would vote for it to support the release of the F. Okay. All right. So, then let’s talk about future of the Democratic party. I know that’s something you’ve been interested in. Democratic approval uh hit an all-time low from the Wall Street Journal. At the same time, we’ve seen the rise more recently from anti-establishment candidates, people like Zoron Mandani. uh give us some of your thoughts there about the future of the Democratic party and particularly in the context of Madani’s victory in New York City. Well, I guess as a good Midwesterner and Michigander, I’m never going to say that what happens in New York City represents all of America. Sorry, we’re a big country and um I would never pretend to totally understand New York City politics. I didn’t particularly understand Eric Adams. I didn’t particularly understand I like I genuinely right. Um but um the I think the message and the hot take out of that election is actually not terribly dissimilar from what we heard in the November election when Trump won, right? Which is people are still focused on the cost of living and not being able to achieve what they thought they could achieve, right? And then number two, people are looking for a new generation of leadership. I don’t think it’s hard to miss those hot takes. Um I can have plenty of disagreements with what I’ve heard Mr. mom Donnie propose and I do but that message coming out of that election what do you disagree with just I I’m like I my family was a fourth generation hot dog business like I am here because we live the American dream through capitalism okay and so um like a lot of free stuff um to me is not the answer I don’t think it’s sustainable I don’t think that it um it actually fixes the underlying problem um so but I can have those disagreements I think this is the like I would be thrilled to have that conversation with him or anyone else about like, hey, let’s we agree that there’s an economic problem here. What we do to solve it, let’s have that debate and adults can debate and not like want to kill each other’s children. Well, let’s talk then about leadership. So, you just talked about that. We see a lot of that from our show. Some of the Democratic side of our audience is furious with Democratic leadership. I mean, do you still support Chuck Schumer’s leadership here? He hasn’t given an interview in about a month. Uh, I didn’t know that. I mean, for me, I mean, I’ve now served in the Senate for six months, in the House before that. Um, him, Chuck Schumer, and Hakee Jeff have hard jobs. Like, hurting cats, it’s not fun. Um, I’ve said for a very long time, long before I got into the Senate and long before President Biden dropped out, that we need a new generation of leaderships. Leadership, you can feel it in and I think at this point, I mean, especially New York, right? You’re looking at New York. It’s like I’d rather roll the dice with someone new than have like the warmed over leftovers that I’ve already known. Um, so I think we have a problem with that across the board. Um, and I think one of the things I can do as the youngest Democratic woman in the Senate, and you know, I’m not young, I’m just young for the Senate. Um, to be clear, you’re young for us. Yeah. Yeah, I mean um is push on that and try to give you leaders a voice in this party in a very real way. Um and to me that’s upward pressure that pressure that you’re talking about from the people is good. So then shouldn’t they endorse him? I mean what kind of a message Schumer and Jeffrey shouldn’t they endorse they’re both from New York Donnie they’re both New Yorkers. And what kind of a message does it send if like I mean this guy won the Democratic primary. He is the Democratic nominee. It was overwhelming if then the centrist leadership of the parties said h we we can’t get behind. I mean you just asked me before we started the exact same question about the Michigan Senate primary and I’m like uh de Michigan Democrats don’t get involved in primaries. We all are friends. So I can’t speak to to what they’re doing. I think um I hope that they’re meeting. I mean if this person is they did Yeah. and Jeff still refused to endorse him. I mean, think about it from this context, like let’s say in 2028, a more moderate figure wins the Democratic primary and a bunch of progressives, AOC or whoever says, “We’re not we’re not backing. We don’t agree with you.” I feel like you would have a problem with that. Yeah. I mean, I think I will say this. You the the way that this party works is when there’s a coalition that sticks together. That’s like a numbers issue. That’s a data issue. And so I’m always going to be someone who’s trying to find unity. That doesn’t mean we all agree with each other. And I think I don’t I wasn’t in the conversations where they met privately. Um what they debated, what they talked about, I don’t know. But to me, we got to figure out what’s common among all Democrats right now. And that’s why I focus on the economy cuz that is to me the cost of living and people not being able to achieve what their parents achieved is the existential issue of our time is the unifying issue of like all the right-wing leftwing like Americans. I don’t even think it’s a Democratic party thing. And to me, that’s where I spend my time because I think 80% of my constituents in Michigan, that’s where they live is like, I just want to be able to go to Disneyland and take my kids the way my dad took me. So that’s where I focus on. I’m happy to sit down with any leader. I can’t speak to their particular decision to endorse or not. I’m not endorsing in my own, right? But just the last question, he won the primary, right? That’s my question. That’s what’s different. I’m sorry. They have another election though. Yeah. general election. He is the Democratic nominee. I see. I see. I’m sorry. This is why I’m saying I don’t follow New York politics and the I I think the the I you’d have to ask them. I don’t I don’t know. I know that for me, whoever wins the Democratic primary in the state of Michigan for the Senate seat that’s up. Um that’s who I will endorse regardless of who it is. All right, that was my last question. So, I’m going to turn it to Chris. Yeah. So, I I mean I guess I’m actually a little curious and forgive me if this is impolite. Like I’m curious why you wanted to talk to us. What do you mean? Well, like what? We don’t have actually a lot of senators, especially ones who have very different ideology than us, reach out. So, I’m curious what your goal was and why you thought to come here. Well, first of all, I think you have a good audience. I mean, right, if you if you spoke to if you if you appealed to like four friends on YouTube or whatever, then I probably wouldn’t be here. But I think to me part of the problem is that people have kind of gone to their corners and I live this right. I live on my family farm in a town that voted heavily for down Donald Trump. I’ve never won my town. I’ve never won my precinct. I’ve never won my neighbors. We get along but I never won them and I probably never will. So the to me I think that the people have gone to their corners and like people who used to be able to talk about politics and disagree don’t even get in the same room together. So I kind of like the idea of your show like it was interesting to me when my team pitched me right we go through and like I’m there’s no hiding it. Lots of people are like how do we evolve in this new space you know like that’s not a a you know it’s not that that conversation isn’t happening. It is. And I think that’s good and to the credit of lots of shows like yours. But I think your show appealed to me as I was being pitched because you guys don’t agree and like I am very focused. My dad was a lifelong Republican, my mom a lifelong Democrat. Like I’m Michiganders want to get back to a place where we can disagree on politics and not have it be so like bitter. So I hear you on the idea of like you want to talk about the economics and the unifying and cost of living and I think that ignores a big elephant in the room especially when you’re talking about even Zoron Manni. The reason Hakeem Jeff and Chuck Schumer don’t want to endorse him is because of his position on Israel. The single most viral clip that he had in that election actually wasn’t about cost of living even though that’s what he wanted to make his campaign about. his opponents, Andrew Cuomo in particular, wanted to make it all about accusing him of anti-semitism and attacking him for his views on Israel and Palestine. So, the most viral moment from that entire campaign, I believe, was this moment on the debate stage, guys, this is E1. Let me go ahead and play this for you and then I want to get your reaction. Mr. Mum Donnie, I would stay in New York City. My plans are to address New Yorkers across the five burrows and focus on that. Mr. Mr. Mandani, can I just jump in? Would you visit Israel as mayor? I will be doing as the mayor. I’ll be standing up for Jewish New Yorkers and I’ll be meeting them wherever they are across the five burrows, whether that’s in their synagogues and temples or at their homes or at the subway platform because ultimately we need to focus on delivering on their concerns. Yes or no? Do you believe in a Jewish state of Israel? I believe Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state. As a state with equal rights. Now, this was considered very controversial when he said it, and I think the results are in at this point that he didn’t win in spite of his position there. He won in part because of it, including if you listen to Andrew Cuomo’s numbers, he won a majority of Jewish voters inside of New York City. And so, what I’m curious for your view on is while, you know, I would love to debate you on your healthcare policy, I think we need Medicare for all, you think public option, your housing policy, etc. I I’m just being really real with you. I don’t really hear what you say if you are still supporting a genocide in Gaza. And that’s for me, you know, I’m speaking for myself, but I know there are millions of other people who feel the same, that you have to at least cross this sort of moral threshold. And what it indicates to people, and I think part of why, you know, Zoran won so many people in New York City, young people in particular, but Jewish New Yorkers, people across the board, is because it was a sign of number one, okay, you’re focused on New York City first and foremost. Sure. Number two, you’re willing to take the heat on an issue that is really difficult for you where you’re being overtly smeared as an anti-semite. And number three, there’s no, you know, entrenched interest that’s going to control. You have a spine. You have principles. you’re willing to stand up for something. And so, you know, I’m curious for your reflections on that because of your voting record and where you’ve stood on this conflict. Yeah. Well, I mean, I one of the proudest moments that I had in my last election where I just won on the same ballot as Donald Trump was that I won a majority of Jewish voters in Michigan. We have a large Jewish population and I won Dearborn, Dearborn Heights, and Ham Tramik, the three Muslim dominated cities. Um, Trump won two out of the three. So I think the thing that um I would push back on is the voters they voters vote with their feet, right? We have a moment in an election where they get to decide and there was no issue that was more difficult for me in this last I would say six years but certainly in this last election other than this issue because it’s personal. I’m a Middle East analyst by training. And so what I tried to do and why I think I managed to win both those communities is call balls and strikes literally up to this week on what’s going on. So let’s talk a little bit more about that. But I think I think it’s important, right? If you’re going to push on me, then I I think like there’s there’s one of us that’s had an election and had to appeal to my voters and win. And so it doesn’t surprise me at all that Mr. Mom Donnie won. Um or actually I I didn’t. I didn’t know his name. I didn’t know much about him until he won. But because I think this issue is motivating people in a very visceral and personal way. Yeah. But it’s not the only issue that my voters in Michigan care about. And the online world is extremely extremely focused on this. But that doesn’t always represent the majority. And I think if I can push back like if you we we do we’re out on the road every day in Michigan when I’m there. Um in some communities that issue is the number one issue 100%. And like I mean up till this morning right like people texting my phone and talking about a plan some of the thing we’re working on but I go outside the Detroit area it’s not in the top 40. But Senator not just a political issue it’s also a moral issue is what I’m trying to get to. So let’s talk about those, you know, calling them balls and strikes, if you will. So first of all, do you accept that Israel has a policy of enforced famine and starvation in the Gaza Strip? I think I literally put my name on a letter yesterday or last night that says like a policy of starvation, a people are starting to starve. And in general, I mean, I served in places like Rammani and Fallujah. I watched in 2004 and 2005 al-Qaeda terrorists drag American citizens behind a vehicle until they died, right? Like horrible. And then string them up like a lynching. Okay. We still had a responsibility to get aid into Fallujah despite the fact that we were fighting al-Qaeda cells in Fallujah and I have been clear about that. So this is a this is a crime against humanity. Forced starvation is a is a crime against humanity. the occupying power has a responsibility to get aid into the war zone. Period. So by the law of war. So in addition, do you accept that the Israeli plan as reported by Harets as discussed openly by ministers like Ben Gavir and Smootrich as backed by the president of the United States is forced ethnic cleansing. I think we have as recently as yesterday the prime minister of Israel talking about forced migration into certain areas and then potentially out of the country. That is not legal. That is not on the on any international standard since World War II. And I’ve been clear about that. So I I just I would ask for a little bit of an open mind. Well, what what I would ask is listen, I’m a YouTuber. You know, I have my words. That’s all I have. But you’re a United States senator. Like you have you’re not the president, but you have power. So, what are you going to do? Because so far what we’ve seen, I mean, you’ve you voted for some of the aid that’s been used to to massacre children and and innocents. You know, you have backed Israel, as far as I can tell, you know, from your voting record at almost every turn. You voted for a definition of anti-semitism that would, you know, codify anti-ionism as anti-semitism. you voted as a member of the House to sanction the ICC for indicting Benjamin Netanyahu, who you just admitted is a war criminal, you know, by your own words. Um, so are you going to join Senator Angus King, Senator Bernie Sanders, in saying no more aid to this country that is committing war crimes against in innocent civilians? I think the first thing if you’re asking about what to do with power and I would I would offer that right now Democrats own nothing in Washington. So the don’t play powerless women with me. You’re a United States senator. There are things you can do in in terms of who runs our foreign policy. I just think it’s interesting, right, that there was a ton of protests when Democrats were in charge. There was a protest in Manhattan yesterday. Okay. Um I think it’s fair to say just to be honest that back and forth like the number of protests that go on now versus before they were part of your political coalition. Well, I mean that’s fair. Obviously I’m here. Yeah. I was very upset over the Biden administration policy and as you can tell I’m very upset over the Trump administration policy. So let’s deal not in strawman but me and in terms of what so the tools that I have the tools that we have in general to me the most important thing is a pressurized campaign to get aid in to people who are starving. That to me is the number one because that’s the one urgent and today and that but will you cut off aid to Israel so long as they’re committing crimes against humanity? I there is a difference between uh a weapon to protect a country from incoming missiles versus other type offensive and defensive weapons are different. So would you support offensive weapons ban like would you stop any offensive aid to Israel? That certainly to me would be a place to look, but I’m not going to cut off a blanket next sale on a defensive weapon. That’s true. I also reject that because for example, if Senator Sakin, if you were asked to support defensive weapons for Iran, defensive weapons for Russia, you wouldn’t back that. No, but Iran I mean, but they’re defensive. They’re just protecting civilians, right? So, how is it different? But because Israel is being shot at, I mean, So is Iran. So is Russia. Ukraine shooting at Russia right now. I I’m I sorry. This is the difference between allies, partners, and adversaries. Why is it an ally then? What what what are they doing right now which is makes it an ally to I think allied relationships just like Lithuania right now like the an allied relationship or a partner relationship is a longstanding relationship of information sharing and diplomacy. And it that is to me it’s not a like every day we decide Lithuania is our ally or not. We’re allied or not. And sometimes we have big breaks with allies, right? Sometimes we have difficult moments with allies. Sometimes it goes the wrong way with allies. But an allied relationship is a long-term relationship. I just it’s hard it’s hard for me to understand why we should ally. Like I’m sure you believe in like or claim to believe in liberal human rights. Why would we would ally with a nation that is committing a genocide and live streaming? So, can I ask literally like this? I think about this from the mirror image way because I am not I do not support the things that Donald Trump is doing, right? But I’m an American. So, do I want other countries to look at America and be like, we don’t we can’t stand Donald Trump. So, we’re going to end long-standing relationship we have with the American people. we’re going to cut off any support we give them on information sharing or intelligence sharing. Like we are not just our elected leaders and I think that’s the thing that’s been lost. Do you in the conversation? So Bet Sullum and another Israeli um human rights organization joined the global consensus amnesty international some 800 scholars. There was a piece from a Israeli scholar in the New York Times in saying this is a genocide. Do you accept even Marjgery Taylor Green yesterday came out and said it’s a genocide. Do you accept that? And if you do, I mean, what responsibility does a United States senator have for? This is a nation that, you know, we send every year billions of dollars to aid to aid that you have, you know, voted for and supported. Like, what responsibility does a United States senator have to prevent genocide and to stop genocide that we see ongoing? We have a responsibility up until today to ensure that food is getting in, people don’t starve. I don’t know that I’d use that term, but it is using the it is violating the law of war. Why don’t you use the term though? Because I think, you know, it’s to me if it is if do I think it’s ethnic cleansing, which is what I think of in genocide. I don’t know if it meets that definition. Didn’t you say it earlier that it was ethnic cleansing? He said that they wanted to force. I mean, this is open from the Israeli government. Like, they’re saying it. They’re saying national security. They come out and they’re like, “We need we don’t need shells. We don’t need we need shells, not food. And we need to encourage migration. I like they’re saying you’re you’re not going to get me to support what the Israeli government is saying right now. I think the point I was trying to make is it’s not just about like we have relationships with nations over time regardless of who their leaders are. We have really tough moments. We have easier moments. But that doesn’t So I’m not willing to say that like I hate everything ever. Sure. So even even if you accept that they’re committing a genocide, you still wouldn’t cut off their aid. I think that defensive aid and offensive aid are different things. And I think at this point every single day, if Nazi Germany said, “We want defensive aid.” I mean, it’s just you you have to see where they’re all weapons that are being shipped. another the weapons that they’re using right now. I mean to be honest if you look at what’s happening on the ground the military part of this conflict is for the most part over what they are doing what they are doing every single day is around aid and they are hurting people around people who were trust try starving people just trying to get aid that’s not highintensity bombs that’s not the weapons that you that we were talking about two years ago it’s just not I’m sorry every single day the military reports that I read they our traditional like this is a military that has a bad strategy. It is not the bombs that we were seeing two years ago. It’s not a military that has a bad strategy. The strategy is force starvation. That is not their strategy and they’re effect and they’re accomplishing it very effectively with the full backing of the United States government including sadly Democrats. And so a couple more questions that I know you have to to run. Um, you know, I’m I’m curious why you condemned Rashidita Talib for using the rally chan, you know, from the river to the sea, something she said for her evokes equal rights. And you have not condemned Randy Fine, who said that Gazin should quote starve away, who floated that the Gaza Strip should be nuked, who called Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib and Sauron um as well called them Muslim terrorists. Where is condemning? I have no problem condemning uh Randy Fine, who I don’t know. I I don’t I’m sorry. I don’t know who that person is. I have no problem condemning someone who talks like that. Senator, we have to ask you last question because the uh your staff is telling us, do you think Apac should register as a foreign lobby? I don’t know the answer to that. I think that I know plenty of people um who think they should. Mhm. Um you know, I I don’t It’s kind of a copout answer, don’t you think? I I mean I I literally I I just guess I’d have to look at the definition. I certainly I certainly have had my tough moments with that organization and so you stop accepting their funding. You got to get you got to get your facts straight. I have not been endorsed by Apac. I have not I’m sorry. I was the first Jew elected to to the Senate that was not endorsed by any Jewish group. Apac J Street. You’ve been the recipient of their funds in 2018 when I first ran. People who were members. Yes. But I’ve not been endorsed since then. And I I just got to be honest, like I I think that this is where facts really matter. I it I’ve had very very difficult conversations with my colleagues in that organization. Um and made a choice back in 2021. 2021. So that was my the first time I was up for reelection. So I I understand that there’s a sort of like again cornered position, but to me like I call balls and strikes as someone who served in the Middle East. I do I have one more question I have to ask you. Um you know we do the show. I really do my best to try to uphold like you know basic human rights, Palestinian humanity, oppose the killing of innocent civilians wherever that happens. And I have to tell you, like I feel really guilty that I’m not doing enough. I think all the time about I’m a mom. I think all the time about those moms who can’t feed their babies. Those babies are starving to death. And I just want to know like you’re United States senator. You did vote for some of the bombs that were dropped on refugee camps. When kids have been sniped in the head, tents firebombed, people set on fire. the entire Gaza Strip turned into rubble and now we’re seeing these emaciated bodies of babies starving to death every day and I just I mean I’m like does it eat you up? Does it eat you up? Do you think like what more could I do? Do you regret any of your votes? You Let me tell you what I was working on this morning. a group of Jewish rabbis and Muslim community leaders came together with a proposal that we are working on on just getting like if we can’t get other aid in at least get baby formula and nutritional supplements for children in let that be kind of a green light never has a problem no one’s trying to eat baby formula other than a baby right that is the proposal that I’ve been working on all night and this morning so in terms of what we’re trying to do there’s not a moment that goes by that this isn’t something that I’m working on and something that my own community, not online, but my own community has practical things that they want to do. They’re willing to raise the money. They’re willing to buy the formula. They’re willing to do whatever we need to do to get it shipped in. That’s how I spend my time. You’re not willing to cut off aid to Israel. To me, that to me is the most effective thing that I can do today. This is a subtle question. Your staff is telling us you absolutely have to go. So, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much for coming. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you. We will see you all tomorrow or counterpoints. We’ll see you all tomorrow. Hey, if you like And if you’d like to get the full show, ad free and in your inbox every morning, you can sign up at breakingpoints.com. That’s right, get the full show. Help support the future of independent media at breakingpoints.com.

Krystal and Saagar are joined by Michigan Senator Slotkin to discuss Epstein, Zohran and Israel.

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