This is why some supermarket veg tastes like water compared to homegrown produce.
Sorry to also rope in the B word but current delivery problems are also making their expiry dates shorter at the point of purchase…
No nutrition, no longevity, and higher prices — we’re all going to be as big as Boris before we know it.
Isn’t this possibly to do with gradually declining soil quality and (maybe) monocrop style farming?
Edit: Many thanks to those responses below from those who have more information on the subject. I hadn’t thought artificial selection could be a factor.
More shelf stable veg that looks pretty in the supermarket that grows as fast as possible. These are the attributes that are selected for rather than nutritious and flavourful as possible.
It’s why growing your own is great (obviously not a solution for everyone). Not sure what would be a catalyst for change back to more nutritious veg.
> All elements except P declined in concentrations between 1940 and 2019 – the greatest overall reductions during this 80-year period were Na (52%), Fe (50%), Cu (49%) and Mg (10%); water content increased (1%). There could be many reasons for these reductions, including changes in crop varieties and agronomic factors associated with the industrialisation of agriculture. Increases in carbon dioxide could also play a role.
The specific elements they looks at were Na (sodium), K (potassium), Ca (calcium), Mg (magnesium), P (phosphorus), Fe (iron), Cu (copper), Water and Dry matter.
And from the conclusion:
> We are also concerned that fruits and vegetables could have lost their value for other essential trace elements that were not included in early versions of the COF tables, such as Se, I and Zn.
You can tell right away if you go to Italy or Spain, their fruit tastes like heaven
Magnesium is something I’ve just started supplementing for my ADHD. Sad to see that’s it’s one of the minerals depleted from our soil and produce.
It must be having psychological effects on the population to a degree. Magnesium is the “relaxation” mineral, they actually use big doses of it to make people evacuate their bowels before procedures. Factoid.
Not just in the UK is it.
The only unique thing in the UK is that we leave crops to rot because there is no one to pick them up.
There’s an independent wholefood farm-to-table style shop near me that sells vegetables. They’re obviously a lot more expensive – is it worth it for the nutrients? Or is this a problem across the board?
This is why I eat twice as much as I did 80 years ago.
What bothers me is we have so little diversity of vegetables it’s quite boring
Go to Asia and there is basically a whole new world of vegetables people have probably never seen or heard of
America industrialized British farming during WWII with donated tractors, etc. There’s a documentary by a guy who left a rural area in Britain and came back after years of war just in time to watch a matched team of plow horses win a county contest then be sold to the knackers the next day. They were worth more dead than alive.
It’s easy to grow something like sugar snap peas. You can do it in a bucket in your yard.
Try it. Plant a few, when they’re ready, taste them. You will be gobsmacked at the difference between them and supermarket peas.
I would love to know how many people have access to land where they can grow vegetables compared to 80 years ago.
It also can’t help that we’re able to buy things at times of the year that they simply shouldn’t be avalible, such as strawberries in December.
Probably due to the weeks it’s spent getting shuffled around various warehouses, packing centres, halfway warehouses, distribution warehouse, then finally to the shelf.
The article blames selective breeding and others have mentioned soil depletion here too. But there is already research showing decreased nutritional content in wild plants (which ofc aren’t affected by selective breeding or agricultural practices that deplete soil). And that is linked to increased CO2 (from what I gather, it basically dilutes other nutrients in plants with increased carbohydrates).
I would be interested to see an attribution study that works out how much each impact can be attributed to. Comparing heritage cultivars to modern ones, as well as comparing controlled agri-environment to “dump in the wild” soils.
EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying the research in the article linked is wrong at all. Just that it would be great to have an attribution for the different effects to compare them. Also, this is in no way meant to be a defence for mass agriculture, or profit-driven selective breeding.
To absolutely nobody’s surprise. And nearly tasteless too.
As a Greek living in the UK the quality of fruit and veg sold in most supermarkets is shocking.
Waitrose and Wholefoods are the honourable exceptions, but then the price is shocking.
The main problem is degrading soil health.
Farmers should be farming microbes like bacteria and mycorrhizae.
Just slathering the ground with npk and roundup is not a very hospitable environment also tilling of soil kills bacterial and fungal networks.
My garden is no dig. I just put on an inch or 2 of fresh compost each season and fertilise with fish blood and bone, pellet chicken manure, volcanic rock dust and alfalfa feed.
Would love a market garden where I live but land has gone crazy the only 2 plots I’ve found that looked reasonable went for 4x their list price and that was 1-2 years ago.
I run a small veg delivery business in Hampshire, and it’s so difficult to convince people to buy quality produce when supermarkets are so cheap. Even though its mass produced crap. I’ve started a project with a lot of our customers whereby we train them to grow specific crops in their garden, all organic and sustainable. Those crops then come back to our packing depot and the customer gets credit against their complete veg box. Unless more people get on board with projects like this, the supermarkets will have a hold over us forever. I’m looking at trying to crowd fund this but it’s bloody hard work..
I feel like I repeat this on every post about food but, please go to farm shops or farmers’ markets and buy stuff from them. It’s a lot higher quality than the supermarkets’ produce plus you’re supporting the farmers instead of the supermarkets squeezing them.
This is why I think most people that dont like vegetables, like tomatoes have never really tasted what a good vegetable is like. Good tomatoes are nothing like what you have in the store. Cherry tomatoes in the store are closer but still not. Its pathetic.
Perhaps the anti vitamin pill crowd will understand why a balanced diet doesn’t mean you’re getting enough micronutrients these days.
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831)
Link to the study, since neither the article above nor the Daily Mail article it references contained a link to it that I could see.
From the abstract “There could be many reasons for these reductions, including changes in crop varieties and agronomic factors associated with the industrialisation of agriculture. Increases in carbon dioxide could also play a role”
That final paragraph was rather buried
> The British Nutrition Foundation’s Helena Gibson-Moore said the ‘alarming’ results would have ‘little overall dietary nutritional impact’ on a healthy, balanced diet.
So I wasn’t imagining it when I was saying to a friend that tomatoes taste nowhere near as good these days?
Fertilizer makes plants grow faster and larger but the resulting plants have less flavor and nutrients.
28 comments
2040: Stay healthy with 45 a day
This is why some supermarket veg tastes like water compared to homegrown produce.
Sorry to also rope in the B word but current delivery problems are also making their expiry dates shorter at the point of purchase…
No nutrition, no longevity, and higher prices — we’re all going to be as big as Boris before we know it.
Isn’t this possibly to do with gradually declining soil quality and (maybe) monocrop style farming?
Edit: Many thanks to those responses below from those who have more information on the subject. I hadn’t thought artificial selection could be a factor.
More shelf stable veg that looks pretty in the supermarket that grows as fast as possible. These are the attributes that are selected for rather than nutritious and flavourful as possible.
It’s why growing your own is great (obviously not a solution for everyone). Not sure what would be a catalyst for change back to more nutritious veg.
I think [this is the paper](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831) the article is talking about.
From the abstract:
> All elements except P declined in concentrations between 1940 and 2019 – the greatest overall reductions during this 80-year period were Na (52%), Fe (50%), Cu (49%) and Mg (10%); water content increased (1%). There could be many reasons for these reductions, including changes in crop varieties and agronomic factors associated with the industrialisation of agriculture. Increases in carbon dioxide could also play a role.
The specific elements they looks at were Na (sodium), K (potassium), Ca (calcium), Mg (magnesium), P (phosphorus), Fe (iron), Cu (copper), Water and Dry matter.
And from the conclusion:
> We are also concerned that fruits and vegetables could have lost their value for other essential trace elements that were not included in early versions of the COF tables, such as Se, I and Zn.
You can tell right away if you go to Italy or Spain, their fruit tastes like heaven
Magnesium is something I’ve just started supplementing for my ADHD. Sad to see that’s it’s one of the minerals depleted from our soil and produce.
It must be having psychological effects on the population to a degree. Magnesium is the “relaxation” mineral, they actually use big doses of it to make people evacuate their bowels before procedures. Factoid.
Not just in the UK is it.
The only unique thing in the UK is that we leave crops to rot because there is no one to pick them up.
There’s an independent wholefood farm-to-table style shop near me that sells vegetables. They’re obviously a lot more expensive – is it worth it for the nutrients? Or is this a problem across the board?
This is why I eat twice as much as I did 80 years ago.
What bothers me is we have so little diversity of vegetables it’s quite boring
Go to Asia and there is basically a whole new world of vegetables people have probably never seen or heard of
America industrialized British farming during WWII with donated tractors, etc. There’s a documentary by a guy who left a rural area in Britain and came back after years of war just in time to watch a matched team of plow horses win a county contest then be sold to the knackers the next day. They were worth more dead than alive.
It’s easy to grow something like sugar snap peas. You can do it in a bucket in your yard.
Try it. Plant a few, when they’re ready, taste them. You will be gobsmacked at the difference between them and supermarket peas.
I would love to know how many people have access to land where they can grow vegetables compared to 80 years ago.
It also can’t help that we’re able to buy things at times of the year that they simply shouldn’t be avalible, such as strawberries in December.
Probably due to the weeks it’s spent getting shuffled around various warehouses, packing centres, halfway warehouses, distribution warehouse, then finally to the shelf.
The article blames selective breeding and others have mentioned soil depletion here too. But there is already research showing decreased nutritional content in wild plants (which ofc aren’t affected by selective breeding or agricultural practices that deplete soil). And that is linked to increased CO2 (from what I gather, it basically dilutes other nutrients in plants with increased carbohydrates).
I would be interested to see an attribution study that works out how much each impact can be attributed to. Comparing heritage cultivars to modern ones, as well as comparing controlled agri-environment to “dump in the wild” soils.
EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying the research in the article linked is wrong at all. Just that it would be great to have an attribution for the different effects to compare them. Also, this is in no way meant to be a defence for mass agriculture, or profit-driven selective breeding.
Source: https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2016/Q2/rising-co2-levels-reduce-protein-in-crucial-pollen-source-for-bees.html#:~:text=Researchers%20found%20that%20the%20overall,beginning%20of%20the%2021st%20century.
To absolutely nobody’s surprise. And nearly tasteless too.
As a Greek living in the UK the quality of fruit and veg sold in most supermarkets is shocking.
Waitrose and Wholefoods are the honourable exceptions, but then the price is shocking.
The main problem is degrading soil health.
Farmers should be farming microbes like bacteria and mycorrhizae.
Just slathering the ground with npk and roundup is not a very hospitable environment also tilling of soil kills bacterial and fungal networks.
My garden is no dig. I just put on an inch or 2 of fresh compost each season and fertilise with fish blood and bone, pellet chicken manure, volcanic rock dust and alfalfa feed.
Would love a market garden where I live but land has gone crazy the only 2 plots I’ve found that looked reasonable went for 4x their list price and that was 1-2 years ago.
I run a small veg delivery business in Hampshire, and it’s so difficult to convince people to buy quality produce when supermarkets are so cheap. Even though its mass produced crap. I’ve started a project with a lot of our customers whereby we train them to grow specific crops in their garden, all organic and sustainable. Those crops then come back to our packing depot and the customer gets credit against their complete veg box. Unless more people get on board with projects like this, the supermarkets will have a hold over us forever. I’m looking at trying to crowd fund this but it’s bloody hard work..
I feel like I repeat this on every post about food but, please go to farm shops or farmers’ markets and buy stuff from them. It’s a lot higher quality than the supermarkets’ produce plus you’re supporting the farmers instead of the supermarkets squeezing them.
This is why I think most people that dont like vegetables, like tomatoes have never really tasted what a good vegetable is like. Good tomatoes are nothing like what you have in the store. Cherry tomatoes in the store are closer but still not. Its pathetic.
Perhaps the anti vitamin pill crowd will understand why a balanced diet doesn’t mean you’re getting enough micronutrients these days.
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831)
Link to the study, since neither the article above nor the Daily Mail article it references contained a link to it that I could see.
From the abstract “There could be many reasons for these reductions, including changes in crop varieties and agronomic factors associated with the industrialisation of agriculture. Increases in carbon dioxide could also play a role”
That final paragraph was rather buried
> The British Nutrition Foundation’s Helena Gibson-Moore said the ‘alarming’ results would have ‘little overall dietary nutritional impact’ on a healthy, balanced diet.
So I wasn’t imagining it when I was saying to a friend that tomatoes taste nowhere near as good these days?
Fertilizer makes plants grow faster and larger but the resulting plants have less flavor and nutrients.