Exclusive: Ukraine prepared to cede territory held by Russia

13 comments

1. >Volodymyr Zelensky told European leaders that they must reject any settlement proposed by Donald Trump in which Ukraine gives up further territory – but that Russia could be allowed to retain some of the land it has taken.

   You’ve been somewhat vindicated, [u/1darkstarrynight](https://www.reddit.com/user/1darkstarrynight/)

   yesterday, you were called a Russian propagandist for posting this from another source which was taken down, seems you were just a little too quick

   And I will say the same thing I said yday: this is the least surprising news of the year, Ukraine simply doesn’t have the willing manpower to regain lost territory.

2. Yesterday: Ukraine won’t cede any territory

   Today: Ukraine can cede some territory Russia currently occupies

   Friday: Ukraine has agreed to cede all territories requested by Russia

3. Ceding some of the Russian held territory unfortunately seems inevitable. Donbas and Crimea.

   But all this is going to teach Putin is that what you take you can keep and so no doubt the collective west will once again lament their ‘soft touch’ approach (though significantly more involved than 2014 and Georgia)

4. Freezing the conflict along the current frontlines is very reasonable and should have been made long time ago. Unfortunately, maximalist delusions exist on both sides and have hindered peace negotiations for a long time.

   Expecting Ukraine to give up territory across the Dnieper or completely give up the Donbass without Russia controlling it is delusional.

   Expecting Russia to give back the land they currently occupy is also very delusional.

   Thats why a compromise will be needed. But again, like I said 2 days ago, the peace has to be stable and there must be very harsh sanctions and terms for those who break the peace. It needs to be made sure there is no round 2 from Russia and that Ukraine also doesnt try any funny shenanigans. Thats why guarantess on both sides need to be made.

5. All Ukraine has to do is set a hair trigger. If the land is ceded, then that has been done so in exchange for something more important: long term peace stabillty in the region.

   Set a list of conditions that will immediately cause the agreement to be null and void: Russia invading again, Russia posturing invading again, Russia making remarks or military aspirations of taking more of Ukraine/depreciating their sovereignty, etc.

   Oh and for this to work Ukraine must have security guarantees by a nuclear power. IMHO y’all should stop caring about what the murderous dictator states and shove Ukraine into NATO stat, or the EU. Pick one but stop lollygagging and leaving your ally out to dry. This is a delicate procedure for peace but assuming contingencies/hair triggers/security guarantees have been established, it’ll be easy to see who breaks the agreement.

6. What this told Russia and Putin is that

   1) They now know that they could effectively wage wars and gain lands without any meaningful consequences, and of course will continue to do so.

   2) They could effectively endure anything the EU and U.S. imposed, economically, militarily and politically. In other words, the West does not hold any leverage over Russia. Unfortunately that is not the case in reverse.

   3) The West and NATO did not intervene this time, it will continue to turn a blind eye so in the future, rendered effectively useless. I very much doubt that U.S. will continue to stay in NATO in the foreseeable future, and a NATO without US does not mean much anyways. To summarize the situation, Putin did not fire a single bullet to the West yet completely singlehanded dismantled any sort of world order held by EU / NATO / U.S. after Cold War which even USSR failed to do so.

   And this brings us to 4) which is a decisive victory in propaganda warfare waged worldwide by Russia. With the U.S. turning far-right followed by EU in very short and foreseeable future, Russia has solidified itself as the dominant ideology exporter of the decade, and has effectively controlled and divided the narrative in the West, in China, in Global South. Look how many are still shouting “neo-nazis” after 3 years of the war, and you know how effective their propaganda machines are.

   And of course 5) Every single nation with the ability and resources will start to seek nuclear status immediately. You don’t want some kind of Nuke Shield by superpowers because now everyone knows that to sell out allies is better than involving in a potentially nuclear war by a mile, rendered any sort of nuclear protective agreements ineffective.

   I’m afraid that when the next war came, NATO is not a thing anymore, most of Europe states will cheer behind the glorious Russia empire, the EU is in the process of dismantling, with the U.S. carriers sided on Moscow’s side. You’ve seen it here first comrade, trust me.

7. >The US toppled the Talibans in two months.

   You seriously think the USA won the war? They won every battle but still lost the war

   Ukraine can’t win a war of attrition but not all wars of attrition meet a natural end as there could be a black swan event at any point. And even if it does reach a conclusion on the battlefield who is to say it wouldn’t switch to an insurgency and constant civil unrest after the ‘war is won’?

   No ‘European’ I have met (I live in ‘Europe’) thinks Ukraine can win in a conventional sense on the battlefield but Ukraine surviving as a thriving democracy is winning in most peoples eyes, and that is easily achievable

8. I’ve noticed there are 2 types of people when it comes to Ukraine.

   1.) People who have seen the TCC videos

   2.) People who *have not* seen the TCC videos

   Or alternatively, people who think the thousands of videos (and new ones everyday) are some elaborate Russian propaganda.

   Anyone who has seen the TCC videos understands this war needs to end.

   Anyone who has seen the TCC videos understands the **human** cost of this war.

   Anyone who has seen those videos realizes that Ukrainians don’t want to fight this war anymore.

   Regardless, what will probably happens is one of two things:

   1.) Ukraine signs over all land under Russian control, disarms, and adopts neutrality.

   2.) Ukraine does not, they fight on, they lose more land and the terms become harsher.

9. Many have laid out here the lesson that Russia learned from this, they can take out weaker countries and NATO (or any defensive coalition of countries) will not act out of fear a larger conflict will result. I want to highlight the growing trend where acts of violence are rewarded with political gains. We see it here with Russia gaining land by just treading water for long enough. Being indifferent to loss of life on their front as long as they get what they want eventually. We see it in Gaza with HAMAS’ atrocities being rewarded with legitimate support of Palestinian statehood without significant calls for their disarmament and cessation of power. Significant propaganda has been a key component in both situations and it will continue to do much of the diplomatic legwork. It’s a disturbing trend that is teaching bad actors very meaningful lessons.

10. As much as I hate the idea of Putin being rewarded at the end of this, Zelensky’s job is to protect his countrymen and settling seems integral to that process. If he just lets this continue stretching, he will become the villain in the story. We’ve already seen shifts in the wind that indicate some already feel he is, because of how firmly he positioned himself in negotiations. In the end, as disgusting as this is, he would be right to cede some land to Russia in order to protect his people.

11. Lose Crimea, join NATO.

    The biggest thing at this point is to not give away the right to join NATO. The only thing that would stop Russia in the future is a wall of NATO tanks parked at the Ukrainian border with Russia.

12. This is going to set a precedent for other conflicts. If Russia can roll into Ukraine and get territories while basically negotiating with a third party, then so can Israel, which may or may not be the intended goal here.

13. I was called all types of names for months now when I have said that this was the most likely thing to happen. I don’t like Russia. I think the invasion was bad. But realistically Putin is a dictator and he can’t be made to look weak. Historically look at Russia they have been willing to sacrifice millions or tins of millions of their own people in different wars over overtime. Yes Ukraine should not have to give up any of its territory. But that doesn’t matter. Good and bad. Right and wrong. This is reality. And to get an ending to this war the most logical ending would be Ukraine gives up a small percentage of its land that Russia already controls to stop the war. Russia didn’t really win because of the amount of money they spent and the lives lost in no way equals the little bit of land they’re gonna get. However Putin can go to his people and claim that he won to feel good about himself.

    Also shame on all your people who were sitting back comfortably behind your computer screens who basically have been saying this whole time that Ukraine shouldn’t give up an inch that they basically should just keep conscripting people to fight to their death against their will so that way Russia doesn’t gain any territory.

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