
Hi everyone! You may know me from my previous post titled "Getting permit L instead of B" đ
So, here I am, 2 years later, have just renewed the residence permit for the second time, and it is finally permit B. Woohoo! I struggled quite a lot with understanding the rules of the game, and gathering information online, as whatever you may find or get told might and is likely to divert from what actually happens. So, I thought of making this post to help other souls struggling with anxiety and uncertainty.
So, here goes with some background and things I would like to know 2 years ago:
- I've been employed as a Software Engineer at ETH ZĂźrich since October 2023. I initially had a 2-year contract, which now got extended until the end of 2026. I hope it will keep renewing, as on one hand, permanent contracts are very rare in universities, but at the same time, max. possible duration on temporary contracts at ETHZ is 5 years total, after which I'll need to get switched to permanent position (if the uni agrees, which I'm not sure about, as my position currently depends on getting new external grants, rather than on core funding, which permanent position would require), or find a job somewhere else.
- Despite having initially a 2-year contract, and seeing online that permit L is supposed to be for short-term stays (for 1 year or less), while long-term stays (correspondingly, 1 year or more) are supposed to be covered by permit B, and despite my employer telling me that they're going to apply for permit B, I received permit L initially. Very frustrating, but as I learnt later on, the 1 year threshold is strictly applied only for EU citizens, and for non-EU, it is unfortunately common to receive L for first year, or even two, even if you start with indefinite contract right away.
- Apparently, neither your employer, nor even Migrationsamt really has a say in what type of permit you get as a non-EU person. As in, the employer just "generally" applies to hire a foreign worker on your behalf, then Amt fĂźr Wirtschaft (office for economic affairs) decides what kind of permit you get, then Migrationsamt has a final decision on whether to give you the permit, but the permit type is determined by what type of work authorisation was issued to you by Amt fĂźr Wirtschaft (Kurzaufenthaltsbewilligung means permit L and Aufenthaltsbewilligung means permit B).
- When getting our initial permits, for some reason Migrationsamt asked us for a "fresher" apostille on our marriage certificate. I communicated back to them that apostille stamp doesn't "expire", so it shouldn't be needed, and also that it might be unfeasible, or even unsafe for us to go to the country where it was issued to get another apostille. They didn't reply, but accepted my response, which I only learnt by calling them and asking if any action is still needed from me on this.
- Some people, incl. workers at Stadthaus, recommend writing in "Bemerkungen" section of the Verfallsanzeige (permit expiry notice and renewal form) that you would like to get permit B instead of L, to communicate this more clearly. While I did so, I don't think it really had any effect on the applications, as by the time you apply, the next permit type is already determined by what kind of authorisation you were given in Arbeitsmarktlicher Entscheid (labor market decision) that Amt fĂźr Wirtschaft communicated to your employer and Migrationsamt at the time.
- Arbeitsmarktlicher Entscheid duration apparently may differ from permit duration, as in my case the work authorisation duration is till December 2026 (my current end of contract), but the new permit is still till September 2026 (extended by one year from prev. expiration date).
- On that note, so far the only two bits of agency when dealing with this that I think I had are proactively going to Stadthaus to request Verfallsanzeige right there, rather than waiting for it to arrive by post, and also proactively getting an A1 German certificate for my spouse, which we read was a requirement for getting permit B for family reunification. Other things, like asking employer to give longer contracts to hint Migrationsamt that it's intended to be a long-stay position, seeking to renew contract earlier (which I learnt was not even possible until 3 months before contract expiration while on permit L), etc didn't seem to have any effect on anything really.
- Before giving me the permit B, Migrationsamt reached to me by post and asked for criminal record extract from my home country. Very luckily, I already had account with e-government services from my country, where it could be done automatically and instantly, so I only had to get a notarized translation in German. I did not need to submit the originals, uploading documents at zh.ch/ma-kontakt was sufficient, and I was also glad to learn that they do accept electronically signed documents.
- I was away from Switzerland when they wrote me a letter, so having ePost service helped process the above in a timely manner đ
- Notable changes in permits: For me, Anmerkungen used to be "Stellen- und Berufswechsel bewilligungspflichtig" (any change of job needs approval), now it is "Selbst. Erwerbstätigkeit ist bewilligungspflichtig" (self-employment requires approval), which I suppose is an upgrade. For my spouse, Anmerkungen is now empty, and any activity is apparently allowed, while previously it was "Aufnahme der Erwerbstätigkeit bewilligungspflichtig" (any employment needs approval).
- Some Migrationsamt and Stadthaus workers told me that as long as I'm on limited-term contract, I can only get permit L as a non-EU citizen. While a frightening outlook for working in university, when reaching out to Amt fĂźr Wirtschaft to clarify these rules, I was very explicitly told that max. term on permit L is 2 years, and it is not possible to extend further, so after that you either get permit B, or have to leave. Welp, and I did get permit B, even though I'm still on a limited-term contract!
Welp… That being said, it's kinda hard to believe that I can now feel that I'm here "for real", and my time here finally counts towards citizenship and permit C. Time to start actually putting some effort into learning German, I suppose? đ
I hope the above helps someone who is about to go through a similar situation in the future. For now though, I'd like to ask some questions from those who already went further:
- Do I understand correctly that "Selbst. Erwerbstätigkeit ist bewilligungspflichtig" in Anmerkungen essentially means that the permit is "open"? So, if I now would want to change jobs, there would be no need to get new approval of Amt fßr Wirtschaft, to get into quota, etc? Are employers still legally required to prioritize Swiss and EU citizen over non-EU holders of permit B?
- I know that only years on B count for citizenship. For permit C however, the information I find online is contradictory. Some people say it's only years on B, some people and official documents say that years on L can count in some cases as well (specific wording is "… or the stay with a short-term residence permit was of a permanent nature (e.g. through an indefinite employment contract or if the authorities and the person concerned assumed from the outset that the stay would be permanent)"). Anyone knows what is the actual practice in ZĂźrich? Should I just try my luck and apply for permit C in 3 years (assuming I already improved my German)? "Enreisdatum" on my B-permit is still 29.09.2023, same as it was on permit L, if that matters.
- Is it possible that during permit renewal the permit will be downgraded back to L, e.g. if the contract is exactly one year from current permit's expiration, without extra time buffer? Any advice on avoiding this, e.g. would it make sense to always ask employer to pad some buffer on top of one year when renewing to make sure it's in the "above 1 year" category?
Thank you very much in advance for anyone answering!
by adamant-pwn
9 comments
I am non-EU started on L almost 5 years ago, after 2 years I got granted a B permit. I was on yearly contracts for 2 years and they renewed the B permit, didnât downgrade.Â
AFAIK L years donât count for C unless youâre EU or one of the few non-EU countries CH has a treaty with for fast track permanent residency (US, Canada, in particular) other wise its 5 years on B.
Does it say ausbildung mit Erwerbstätigkeit?
Best advice I could give is to proactively look for another job. Permanent contracts at universities are exceptionally given.
Even though your permit is âopenâ, everything should go through migration when changing jobs, that I was told by them.
You will always get your B permit renewed if there are not reasons to revoke it, eg you donât have a job and ask for extension and you proof enough means of living. Then there is small chance you get a short term L.
On 3., Iâve never heard of a B permit being downgraded to an L permit, but I do know someone whose B permit was simply not renewed and they had to leave. No crime or financial difficulties or anything, and they were in fact still employed on a contract, but the Migrationsamt determined that the justification for the original B permit was made with a temporary concept in mind, and that that time had expired without the company putting them in a permanent role. That there wasnât a big enough justification for a third-country person to stay indefinitely given the original purpose of the B permit. So I would really still seek out a permanent contract that defines a long-term role for which youâre especially qualified as a priority.
Hi OP! Thank you so much for the update and the info, its useful to me đ happy for you and best of luck for that C!
If you are non EU and wanted C permit, the best bet for you is to learn language with B1 level, don’t fall into trap that after 10 years you need A2
I highly suggest to get a lawyer. Just knowing what the right questions are can be a big advantage. You could ask around your ETH network for recommendations.
Instead of guessing, contact your cantonal office, for ZĂźrich: https://www.zh.ch/en/wirtschaft-arbeit/erwerbstaetigkeit-auslaender/drittstaaten-angehoerige.html#1501256282
And heed the advice about ETH contracts – expect to be kicked out after 5 years, you will be made permanent only in special cases. Start discussing this with your boss – in my experience it takes some time to organize this even in said special case. Maybe they need to find permanent funding for you, maybe you need to pass some exams or benchmarks (like a certain number of publications or impact factor in case of post-doc – just an example)…
The firm when you aplly can give you an L or B its their choice, simple, i got an L they’ve changed it to B after a month.
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