KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday, push for peace. One week after the Trump-Putin summit in Alaska, Russia escalates its attacks on Ukraine.
PRES. EMMANUEL MACRON:
I don’t see President Putin very willing to get peace now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump presses for an end to the war, but is Moscow listening? Were you enraged when you learned that Russia targeted an American company based in Ukraine?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
I don’t like it–
KRISTEN WELKER:
Was that not a slap –
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Kristen –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– in the face to the peace process –
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
–I don’t like it, Kristen. but this is a war.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll speak exclusively with Vice President JD Vance and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Putin is ready to meet with Zelenskyy when the agenda would be ready for a summit, and this agenda is not ready at all.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Plus retribution raid? The FBI searches the home and office of former Trump National Security Advisor John Bolton in search of classified records. Was it political payback? I’ll talk to Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. And map quest lawmakers in Texas and California battle to redraw congressional maps ahead of the midterms.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
We got here because the president of the United States is struggling.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News White House Correspondent Monica Alba, Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS Newshour, former Democratic Senator Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, and Republican strategist Matt Gorman. Welcome to Sunday. it’s Meet the Press
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. This week, President Trump welcomed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and European leaders to the White House in his efforts to negotiate an end to the war. But one week after that high-stakes Alaska summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, no cease fire has been agreed to, no meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin planned, and Russian missiles hit an American-owned factory in Ukraine as the attacks escalate. Back in Washington, the FBI raided the home and office of Mr. Trump’s former National Security Advisor John Bolton searching for classified documents, according to officials. Against this backdrop, I sat down on Friday with Vice President JD Vance at residence and started by asking him about the raid on Ambassador Bolton.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
We’re in the very early stages of an ongoing investigation into John Bolton. I will say we’re going to let that investigation proceed. What I can tell you is that, unlike the Biden DOJ and the Biden FBI, our law enforcement agencies are going to be driven by law and not by politics. And so if we think that Ambassador Bolton has committed a crime, of course, eventually prosecutions will come. But as you know, Kristen, this is all part of gathering evidence, trying to understand something that we’re worried about. And, of course, I’ll let the FBI comment on the next stage of the investigation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What’s at the root of this? Is this about classified documents?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Well, again, I’ll let the FBI speak to that. Classified documents are certainly part of it. But I think that there’s a broad concern about, about Ambassador Bolton. They’re going to look into it. And like I said, if there’s no crime here, we’re not going to prosecute it. If there is a crime here, of course, Ambassador Bolton will get his day in court. That’s how it should be. But again, our focus here is on did he break the law? Did he commit crimes against the American people? If so, then he deserves to be prosecuted.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know, Ambassador Bolton is a frequent critic —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
— of President Trump’s. He’s also on Kash Patel’s enemies list. The administration has already revoked his security clearance, Secret Service protection. Is Ambassador Bolton being targeted because he’s a critic of President Trump?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
No, not at all. And in fact, if we were trying to do that, we would just throw out prosecutions willy-nilly, like the Biden administration DOJ did, prosecutions that later got thrown out in court. If we bring a case, and, of course, we haven’t done that yet. The Department of Justice has not done that yet. We are investigating Ambassador Bolton. But if they ultimately bring a case, it will be because they determine that he has broken the law. We’re going to be careful about that. We’re going to be deliberate about that because we don’t think that we should throw people, even if they disagree with us politically, maybe especially if they disagree with us politically, you shouldn’t throw people willy-nilly in prison. You should let the law drive these determinations, and that’s what we’re doing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you know, a lot of people have already looked at this and said, “This looks a lot like retribution.” Is this retribution?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Well, who has said it looks a lot like retribution, Kristen? A lot of people who tried to throw Donald Trump in prison for completely fake charges that were later thrown out by multiple different courts. I suspect that if the media and the American people let this case actually unfold, if they let the investigation unfold as it’s currently doing, they’re going to find out that what we’re doing is being very deliberate and being very driven by the national interest, and by the law here. And that’s as it should be.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s turn to the war in Ukraine.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I had the opportunity to speak with the Russian foreign minister.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
I heard.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes. He says, as of right now, there’s no meeting planned between President Putin and President Zelenskyy. And he added, “There’s needs to be an agenda first,” saying, quote, “This agenda is not ready at all.” Are the Russians stringing President Trump along?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
No, not at all, Kristen. I think the Russians have made significant concessions to President Trump for the first time in three and a half years of this conflict. They’ve actually been willing to be flexible on some of their core demands. They’ve talked about what would be necessary to end the war. Of course, they haven’t been completely there yet, or the war would be over. But we’re engaging in this diplomatic process in good faith. We are trying to negotiate as much as we can with both the Russians and the Ukrainians to find a middle ground to stop the killing. I think what the president has tried to do here is try to engage in very aggressive, very energetic diplomacy because this war is not in anyone’s interest. It’s not in Europe or the United States’s interest. We don’t think it’s in Russia or Ukraine’s interest to keep going. So we’re going to keep on pushing for a diplomatic solution. And one final point about this, Kristen. If you look historically, whenever you have a complicated war with a lot of death and destruction, it kind of goes in fits and starts. There are hills and valleys to the negotiation. We sometimes feel like we’ve made great progress with the Russians, and sometimes, as the president has said, he’s been very frustrated with the Russians. And we’re going to keep on doing what we have to do to bring this thing to a close. I don’t think it’s going to happen overnight. I think that we’re going to continue to make progress. But, ultimately, whether the killing stops, that determination is going to belong to whether the Russians and Ukrainians can actually find some middle ground here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you talk about concessions. And yet, the Russians rejected the ceasefire proposal that President Trump put forward. There’s no meeting planned between President Putin and President Zelenskyy. And this week, Russia targeted an American factory in Ukraine. There were 600 people inside at the time. No one was killed. What makes you think President Putin is serious about peace?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Well, I didn’t say they conceded on everything. But what they have conceded is the recognition that Ukraine will have territorial integrity after the war. They’ve recognized that they’re not going to be able to install a puppet regime in Kyiv. That was, of course, a major demand at the beginning. And importantly, they’ve acknowledged that there is going to be some security guarantee to the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Again, have they made every concession? Of course, they haven’t. Should they have started the war? Of course, they haven’t. But we’re making progress, Kristen. And what I, I admire about the president in this moment is he’s not asking three and a half years ago. He’s not, you know, trying to focus on every nitpicky detail of how this thing started three and a half years ago. He’s trying to focus on the nitpicky details of now, of what do the parties disagree on? What do they agree on? And how do you build a foundation from one side of that ledger to the other so that you can stop the killing?
KRISTEN WELKER:
But with President Trump, were you enraged when you learned that Russia targeted an American company based in Ukraine?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
I don’t like it —
KRISTEN WELKER:
Was that not a slap —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Kristen —
KRISTEN WELKER:
— in the face to the peace process —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
— I don’t like it, Kristen. But this is a war. And this is why we want to stop the killing. The Russians have done a lot of things that we don’t like. A lot of civilians have died. We’ve condemned that stuff from the get go. And frankly, President Trump has done more to apply pressure and to apply economic leverage to the Russians, certainly than Joe Biden did for three and a half years when he did nothing but talk but do nothing to bring the killing to a stop. So you asked me what I’m enraged by. What I’m enraged by is the continuation of the war. What I’m enraged by is a presidency in Joe Biden who for three years did nothing to end the killing. What I’m actually excited about right now is that we have a president who’s engaging in energetic diplomacy to try to stop the killing. That’s as it should be. I think the American people should be proud of it. And whatever the outcome of this, whether the war ends in three months or six months or hopefully not beyond, but maybe, we should be proud that we have a president who’s trying to stop the killing. He’s done it, by the way, six wars, that the president has brought to a close all over the world. This would be the seventh. It’s the most complicated, but we’re trying despite that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I had the opportunity to interview Secretary Rubio last week. And he said, he actually doesn’t think that new sanctions would force Putin into a ceasefire. Are sanctions now off the table, Mr. Vice President?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
No, sanctions aren’t off the table. But we’re going to make these determinations on a case by case basis. What do we think is actually going to exert the right kind of leverage to bring the Russians to the table? Now, you said sanctions were not going to lead to a ceasefire. I think that’s obviously correct. If you look at the way the Russians have conducted themselves, they don’t want a ceasefire. They don’t want a ceasefire for complicated reasons. We, of course, have pushed for a ceasefire. But again, we don’t control what Russia does. If we did, the war would’ve been over seven months ago. What we do believe though is that we continue to have a lot of cards. The president of the United States has a lot of cards left to play to apply pressure to try to bring this conflict to a close, and that’s what we’re going to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You take me to my next question. Where exactly is the pressure on Russia to do anything if you’re not right now imposing new sanctions? How do you get them to a place of getting to the table with Zelenskyy and stopping to drop bombs?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Look Kristen, I think that question betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of where we are. The president has applied aggressive economic leverage. For example, the secondary tariffs on India, to try to make it harder for the Russians to get rich from their oil economy. He’s tried to make it clear that Russia can be reinvited into the world economy if they stop the killing, but they’re going to continue to be isolated if they don’t stop the killing. The president has applied more economic pressure to the Russians to stop this war than Biden did in three years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know it’s —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
So the idea that we’re not doing anything, we’re already doing things right now, and this is how negotiation works. You do something, you talk to the parties, you try to see if there’s a meeting of minds. Again, we believe we’ve already seen some significant concessions from both sides just in the last few weeks. We’re going to eventually be successful, or we’ll hit a brick wall. And if we hit a brick wall, then we’re going to continue this process of negotiation, of applying leverage. This is the energetic diplomacy that’s going to bring this war to a close.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I hear what you’re saying about India. China’s actually the largest buyer of Russian oil. Why —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
They’re close.
KRISTEN WELKER:
— no sanctions on China —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
They’re about equal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Why no sanctions on China?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Well, obviously, we have a 54% tariff on the PRC right now. So we’ve already applied pretty hefty sanctions on the Chinese. And we’ve had a number of conversations at all levels of government to try to encourage the Chinese to be better partners in bringing this war to a close. So again, I think the question betrays a misunderstanding of what’s going on. We are applying aggressive economic pressure to bring this war to a close. Maybe we’ll apply, apply additional pressure. Maybe if we feel like we’re making progress we’ll dial that pressure back. That give and take is part of the negotiation that we think is working. It hasn’t reached its final outcome yet, but we’re going to keep on working on this process for as long as we can.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to boil down what the Russian concessions might look like, is the only thing that President Trump is asking Russia to give up is not to invade all of Ukraine?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
No, that’s not it at all. It’s providing the Ukrainians the kind of security guarantees that ensures that country is not going to be invaded again. You know, this is why I think we’ve made a lot of progress, Kristen. Even though we’re not yet there, why we’ve made a lot of progress is fundamentally the disagreement here is over security guarantees versus where you draw the battle lines in Ukraine. So whether we solve those issues, we’ve actually identified the two critical issues, one to Ukrainians, one to the Russians. And I think that is where the fruit, if we ultimately solve this thing, that’s where the fruit of an agreement will come.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to get security guarantees.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But very quickly, if Russia is allowed to keep any of the territory that it illegally seized, what message does that send to China? Does it give China a green light to invade Taiwan? Does it give Russia a green light to invade other European countries, which is what your European allies are concerned about?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Well, first of all, the Ukrainians are going to ultimately make the determination about where you draw the territorial lines in their own country. But, Kristen, this is how wars ultimately get settled. If you go back to World War II, if you go back to World War I, if you go back to every major conflict in human history, they all end with some kind of negotiation. We’re actually not active parties in the negotiation. We’re effectively mediating. We’re trying to mediate Ukrainians and the Russians to come to some agreement. If Ukrainians are willing to say something on territory that brings the conflict to the close, we’re not going to stop them. We’re also not going to force them because it’s not our country. We’re trying to play a constructive role. The president is trying to play a constructive role to bring peace to the region. But he’s not going to force these parties to walk through the door. All he can do is open the door and ask them to negotiate in good faith.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You talk about security guarantees.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Foreign Minister Lavrov discussed the importance of Russia being a part of security guarantees. Ukraine says that’s a non-starter. Is that a non-starter for the United States as well?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
I think —
KRISTEN WELKER:
How can Russia secure Ukraine when it’s dropping bombs on Ukraine —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
There’s a little bit of a talking past each other here. First of all, we’re not talking about security guarantees until after the war has come to a close. And, of course, the Russians are going to be a part of the conversation about bringing that war to a close. So, of course, they’re going to have some stake in this. They’re going to talk about this. That doesn’t mean that they’re going to have troops in Ukrainian territory. But how can you reasonably provide security guarantees without talking to the Russians about what would be necessary to bring the war to a close? So I think there’s a little bit of people talking past each other. This is going to be a security guarantee provided by a host of nations. I think the Europeans are obviously going to play a big role. We think there are other countries all over the world that might play a big role. The Russians are going to be involved because they’re the critical party that’s necessary to stop the killing. Again, this is how negotiations happen. It’s this give and take. It’s a conversation between both sides.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly before I move to domestic issues.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
For Americans who are watching, can you guarantee no U.S. boots on the ground as a part of these security guarantees?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
The president’s been very clear. There are not going to be boots on the ground in Ukraine, but we are going to continue to play an active role in trying to ensure that the Ukrainians have the security guarantees and the confidence they need to stop the war on their end. And the Russians feel like they can bring the war to a conclusion on their end. It’s complicated, Kristen, but we’re going to keep on trying to play these parties. You know, we’re going to keep on trying to convince these parties to talk to each other and continue to play the game of diplomacy because that’s the only way to get this thing wrapped up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let’s talk about some domestic issues now. This week you were in Georgia.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You were there to talk about and promote the One Big Beautiful Bill. And it also comes in the same week that Texas Republicans approve five new Republican seats.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So they expanded the map for Republicans in their state. If President Trump’s agenda is so popular, why do Republicans need to add additional seats to the map?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Well, first of all, Kristen, you have to ask yourself, “Why have Democrats gerrymandered their states aggressively over the past ten to 20 years?” If you look, for example, at the popular vote in a lot of these states, and Massachusetts, where 32% of the residents of Massachusetts voted for Republicans, zero Republican federal representatives. So we’re not trying to sort of — all we’re doing, frankly, is trying to make the situation a little bit more fair on a national scale. The Democrats have gerrymandered their states really aggressively. We think there are opportunities to push back against that. And that’s really all we’re doing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So final question for you —
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Please.
KRISTEN WELKER:
— Mr. Vice President. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Elon Musk is halting his plans to create a new political party, in part because he wants to support you for president in 2028. I know you’ve been asked about this. You said you have not discussed this with him.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
That’s right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But do you see yourself as the apparent future of the MAGA movement?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
No. I see myself as a vice president who’s trying to do a good job for the American people, Kristen. And if I do a good job, and if the president continues to be successful, as I know that he will be, the politics will take care of itself. We can cross that bridge when we come to it. But we just had an election seven months ago. I think I’m probably like most Americans, and I’m already sick of talking about politics after a big general election. The next election that matters is not the election of 2028. It’s 2026. So before we talk about anything three and a half years down the road, let’s take a break from politics, focus on governing the country. And when we return to politics, it’s going to be to focus on those midterm elections.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Have you had any conversations with President Trump about him passing the torch onto you?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
As you know, the president talks about everything. And if it’s in the news, the president and I have certainly discussed it. But I think the president is just focused on doing a good job for the American people. He wants me to be focused on doing a good job for the American people. That’s what I’ll keep on doing. And again, if we take care of business, if America is safer, if it’s more prosperous, if young people could afford to buy a home, if we actually bring peace to all these regions of the world, which we’ve made great progress in doing, the politics will take care of itself.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov joins me exclusively. That’s next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. In an exclusive interview on Friday with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov he told me there’s currently no meeting planned between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, despite President Trump’s push for peace.
This week, Russia escalated its attacks in Ukraine. Just this week. Russia bombed an American-owned factory near the Hungarian border. I’ve spoken to people who, frankly, see that as a slap in the face to President Trump, to the entire peace process. Isn’t it?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Well, I would say that those who are sincerely interested in understanding what is going on would know, should know, by now that never, ever Russia deliberately targeted any sites which are not linked to military abilities of Ukraine.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This is an electronics factory though, sir. This is an electronics factory. I’ve spoken to people on the ground there. It builds coffee machines, among other electronics. This is not a military site.
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Well, I understand that some people are really naive and when they see a coffee machine in the window, they believe that this is the place where coffee machines are produced. Our intelligence has very good information, and we target only – as I said – either military enterprises, military sites or industrial enterprises directly involved in producing military equipment for Ukrainian – for Ukrainian army.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Foreign Minister, here are the facts: close to 50,000 civilians have either been killed or injured in this war. Russia has hit maternity wards, churches, schools, hospitals, a kindergarten just this past week. So either the Russian military has terrible aim or you are targeting civilians. Which is it?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Look, look, NBC is a very respectful structure, and I hope you are responsible for the words which you broadcast. I ask you to send us or to publicize the information to which you just referred because we never targeted the civilian targets of the kind you cited. You might be mixing, you know, the information because it is a fact that quite a number of churches were purposefully hit by the Ukrainian regime. Quite a number of just civilian settlements, human settlements –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But what about your actions? What about your actions, Mr. Foreign Minister?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Look, we are going by circles. I told you already what we mentioned repeatedly, that we never target civilian – civilian sites, that we only attack the sites which are directly involved in the Ukrainian military machine which the West is trying to beef, beef up. And if you have any proof of what you just said about churches, kindergarten schools, and so on and so forth, I challenge you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sure.
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Make it public. Make it public with the dates, with the addresses and so on and so forth. As I said, NBC is a very reputed broadcasting agency.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Absolutely. It’s all publicly –
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Your listeners and watchers deserve –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Foreign Minister, it’s all publicly documented, and we have reporters on the ground who’ve seen it with their own eyes.
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
– deserve to have specific information when you, when you make such claims.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All of the information is publicly available. We do have reporters on the ground who’ve seen these strikes with their own eyes. But I want to ask about what is happening on the ground right now. Attacks against Ukraine have doubled in the time since President Trump took office. If President Putin has —
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
— On the ground —
KRISTEN WELKER:
If President Putin has so much regard for President Trump, why is he taking actions that are undermining his push for peace?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
President Putin has regard for President Trump, respecting President Trump concentration on the interests, national interests of the United States, national interests and well being and historic heritage of the American people. And I don’t have any doubt that President Trump respects the same attitude of President Putin to protecting national interests of Russia, to protecting basic interests of the Russian citizens, including the right to be a nation which has very rich history, various traditions and which has the duty, if you wish, to support those who share the values of the Russian language, Russian world if you wish.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Foreign Minister, let me ask you about something that President Putin said in June. He said, quote, “I consider the Russian and Ukrainian people to be one nation. In this sense, all of Ukraine is ours.” Does President Putin believe that Ukraine has a right to exist?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
No, this is, this is not true. Ukraine has the right to exist, provided it must let people go. The people whom they call terrorists, who they call species and who during a referenda – several referenda in Novorossiya, in Donbas, in Crimea decided that they belong to the Russian culture and the government which came to power as a result of the coup was determined as a priority to exterminate everything Russian —
KRISTEN WELKER:
But as you also know, a number of those people did not want Russia to invade.
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
This is about —
KRISTEN WELKER:
A number of people did not want Russia to invade. Mr. Foreign Minister, do you acknowledge that Russia invaded Ukraine?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Well, democracy is about the people, you know, having a chance to vote. The people voted. The people pronounced themselves. And —
KRISTEN WELKER:
Did Russia —
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
— when it started in Crimea —
KRISTEN WELKER:
— invade Ukraine, Mr. Foreign Minister? Did Russia invade Ukraine?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Russia started special military operation to defend the people who Zelenskyy and his predecessor did not consider as humans. They called them beings, species. You should look. You should really, I understand that you need something to sell today, but if you are raising and touching up on some serious things, my suggestion is to take a look at the history of Ukrainian development after the coup in 2014.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But it’s a yes —
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
We have some material —
KRISTEN WELKER:
— Yes or no question. It’s a yes or no question, Mr. Foreign Minister. Do you acknowledge Russia invaded Ukraine?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
I said to you that we started special military operations there —
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, yes.
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
— to protect, to protect the people whom the regime declared terrorists and enemies and whom the regime was bombing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Foreign Minister, final question. Does Russia, does President Putin, want peace?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And what say you to U.S. lawmakers here who believe you are stringing along President Trump? Are you?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV:
It is not for the lawmakers or for any media outlet to, to decide, you know, what President Trump is motivated by. We respect President Trump because President Trump defends American national interests. And I have reason to believe that President Trump respects President Putin because he defends Russian national interests. And whatever they discuss between themselves is not a secret. We want peace in Ukraine. He wants, President Trump wants, peace in Ukraine. The reaction to Anchorage meeting, the gathering in Washington of these European representatives and what they were doing after Washington indicates that they don’t want peace.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Foreign Minister Lavrov also told me quote “security guarantees must be subject to consensus”. You can watch my full interview with Foreign Minister Lavrov online. And when we come back, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Senator Schiff, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s wonderful to have you here on a big Sunday. You just heard my interviews with Vice President JD Vance with the Russian foreign minister. Senator, what do you make of where this peace process stands? Do you believe it is stalled? Or do you think it’s moving forward, albeit slowly?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I think it’s stalled. And I was most interested in your question to him: “Was Russia essentially stringing along, was Putin stringing along the president of the United States?” Now, Lavrov is such a practiced liar, he’s been doing this for decades. He seemed to have trouble with that question. He didn’t answer that question directly. I was also surprised, frankly, that Russia would go and bomb a U.S. electronics factory. That’s so in-your-face to the president, President Trump. That seems unnecessarily provocative. But they’re clearly stringing the president along. And, you know, I think at some, we have to start, what’s our national security interest? Our national security interest is seeing a strong, sovereign, independent, democratic Ukraine. And measured against that, the summit I think was a failure. It didn’t advance our interests or Ukraine’s interests or that of our allies. Putin walked away with essentially no ceasefire, despite the president’s demand for it. He walked away after being on the stage on U.S. soil with the U.S. president, literally the red carpet rolled out for him. He walked away out from under the threat of sanctions from the United States. Trump had promised to impose sanctions. So they strung him along successfully. And I think the president, for his part, was correct when he said, “Ukraine can’t win a war if it can’t go on offense.” But it is the president and the administration that is preventing Ukraine from going on offense, by preventing Ukraine from using weapons to attack Russia on Russian soil. So I think it was a real setback for us. Lavrov, no surprises in his statements except perhaps in his inability to directly refute the idea that they’re stringing along the president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, something we’ll obviously continue to watch really closely. I do want to ask you about one of the top domestic issues this week. The FBI search of former national security advisor and Ambassador John Bolton’s home and office. I did have the opportunity to ask the vice president about this. He rejects the idea that this is political retribution. Do you believe that people need to let this investigation play out and not get ahead of it at this point?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I think this is clearly retribution. I mean, the idea that, what, they just picked John Bolton, a prominent critic of the president, at random. What the president is trying to do here is very systemic and systematic, and that is, anyone who stands up to the president, anyone who criticizes the president, anyone who says anything adverse to the president’s interests gets the full weight of the federal government brought down on them. So if you’re John Bolton, you get your home seized. If you’re on the Federal Reserve and you won’t lower interest rates, you get threatened with prosecution or with firing. If you’re a general like the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency and you issue a report or your agency does casting doubt on the success of U.S. military strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities, you get fired. If you are the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics and you give a jobs report that the president doesn’t like, you get fired. They’re essentially going after any critic, any opposition in an effort to intimidate them. That’s what this is about. It’s not, it’s not about Bolton per se. It’s about anyone else that, like Bolton, might stand up to the president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you have been a critic of the president. And the administration is targeting you of what they allege is mortgage fraud. I want to read a little bit of what President Trump posted on social media. He writes, quote, “Adam Schiff has engaged in a sustained pattern of possible mortgage fraud. Adam Schiff said that his primary residence was in Maryland to get a cheaper mortgage and rip off America when he must live in California because he was a congressman from California.” Now the government mortgage company, Fannie Mae, says you’re, quote, “engaged in a sustained pattern of possible occupancy misrepresentation on several loans.” Are these allegations true? How do you respond to them?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
They’re patently false. And the president knows it. And the housing agency president’s person Pulte knows it. He’s essentially doing the president’s bidding against me, against Letitia James, against this person on the Federal Reserve. Mortgage is their new weapon to go after their critics. But I’ve been very open about my residency both in California and in Maryland with my constituents and with the lenders. So there’s no “there” there. But the common denominator is they will manufacture anything to go after their critics, after members of Congress to try to silence them, after John Bolton, after people in the Federal Reserve, after generals, after former presidents. They’re investigating Comey and Clapper, the Obamas, the Clintons. Basically, it’s free rein with a corrupt leadership at the Justice Department.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just very quickly, will you cooperate with the investigation?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Oh, we have. And we’ve refuted their allegations. In fact, we put it in writing. But it doesn’t matter. What matters to them is the intimidation campaign. And they’re going to mount it against anyone who stands up to the president. But I’m not backing down. And I have to hope that others will stand up to this increasing authoritarian form of government.
KRISTEN WELKER:
A couple more and just a few minutes left. I want to talk to you about the Epstein files. The Justice Department this week releasing more than 300 pages of interview transcripts with Ghislaine Maxwell. Of course, she’s serving a 20-year sentence for her role in Jeffrey Epstein’s sex trafficking. She said in the interview she never witnessed President Trump act inappropriately and that Epstein actually did not have a client list that she’s aware of. Did the release satisfy any of the outstanding questions that you have about this matter?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Oh, I don’t think it’ll satisfy anyone. They go and they do this interview without the presence of a prosecutor who actually knows the facts because they fired her, James Comey’s daughter. So they go in there, the number two person at the Justice Department, not knowing any of the facts, not having a lawyer present to represent the victims of this child sex trafficking.The sex – convicted sex trafficker, Ghislaine Maxwell, goes into this interview undoubtedly told by her attorney, “Unless you completely exonerate the president, you’re going to spend most of the rest of your life in prison.” So she wants a pardon. She says exactly what her lawyers tell her is going to be necessary to get a pardon. No one should be surprised here. And she’s immediately moved to a more, less secure prison which is not for convicted child sex traffickers. It all stinks to high heaven. And there’s a common denominator here too which is the president going after his enemies to distract from their failure to do the one thing they promised to the Justice Department, and that is release the Epstein files.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, final question. This week Texas Republicans redrew their map. They added five additional Republican seats. The governor of California, Gavin Newsom, says it’s time to fight fire with fire. He is moving to add five additional Democratic seats. You, Senator, have been very outspoken against tearing down Democratic norms. Does this tit-for-tat over redistricting run the risk of undercutting Democrats’ credibility in the eyes of voters?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Democrats offered the legislation in the last session to eliminate the gerrymander in every state. We supported, I think, to a person. Republicans, I think, almost to a person, maybe to a person, opposed that. It’s very clear what party wants to do away with gerrymandering. But it was interesting to me when you asked JD Vance, “Hey, if your agenda’s so popular, why are you trying to gerrymander Texas, a state that is already gerrymandered to elect Republicans?” And he didn’t try to defend the president’s agenda. The president is deeply unpopular, one of the most unpopular presidents in history. His agenda is unpopular. The big, ugly bill that is cutting health care for millions to fund tax cut – tax cuts for rich people is historically unpopular. So ,of course, the only way they feel they can survive the midterms is by redrawing the lines in Texas. California is not going to stand for this. We will fight fire with fire. Don’t poke the bear. And, and it’s going to be necessary. But I hope what will come out, out of the end of all of this, is where we should have begun and that was with the Democratic bill to end the gerrymander in every state.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right we covered a lot of ground today. Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And still ahead, the panel is here. But first, it was one of the deadliest and most destructive storms in U.S. history, 20 years ago this week. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. This week will mark 20 years since Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast, claiming nearly 2,000 lives, causing more than $100 billion in damage, and leaving much of New Orleans under water, its people without power, food or shelter. Aaron Broussard, the president of Jefferson Parish, joined Meet the Press in the aftermath, pleading for more action from the federal government.
[BEGIN TAPE]
AARON BROUSSARD:
The guy who runs this building I’m in, emergency management, he’s responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard Nursing Home. And every day, she called him and said, “Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?” And he said, “Yeah, mama. Somebody’s coming to get you. Somebody’s coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody’s coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody’s coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody’s coming to get you on Friday.” And she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night.
TIM RUSSERT:
Mr. President —
AARON BROUSSARD:
Nobody’s coming to get her. Nobody’s coming to get her. For the second time, he’s promised. Everybody’s promised. They’ve had press conferences. I’m sick of the press conferences. For God’s sake, shut up and send us somebody.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. Monica Alba, NBC News White House correspondent; co-anchor of PBS News Hour Amna Nawaz; Republican strategist Matt Gorman; and Heidi Heitkamp, former Democratic senator from North Dakota. Thank you all for being here. Monica, I want to start with you. You were on the ground in Alaska for that summit between President Trump and President Putin. You heard the conversations with Lavrov and with the vice president. Based on your reporting and your sources, where do you think this process stands right now?
MONICA ALBA:
Well look, Kristen, remember, candidate Donald Trump promised to solve this conflict basically within hours of taking office. This week has shown why that has proven to be so difficult. And that’s a point that he concedes and that White House officials are conceding now as well. The complexities of these questions of security guarantees, of territory, all of that, that is why you now have the White House taking a little bit of a step back, shifting their language, shifting their tone a little bit to say, “We’re still working furiously on this behind the scenes.” But publicly they’re saying, “This is up to Ukraine and Russia, and the U.S. will only have a role if they are able to iron out those incredibly complex issues.” And that’s now why you also have the president laying out a two-week promise. We’ve heard that many times. Those time frames come and go without action sometimes. But he’s saying maybe there will be these severe consequences that we haven’t seen yet, maybe sanctions, maybe tariffs. And so one thing to watch this week, and soon when the Senate returns, will they take up that package? Though, there is a real question of whether those sanctions would even have an impact or be efficient in getting Russia to make some of those concessions that, frankly, they haven’t. But the White House says they’re not giving up. They’re still trying to work on this. And that burst of momentum you saw in Alaska and with the European leaders at the White House is now showing its risk, because then when you have a pause, an impasse like the one now, it’s clear after all that activity.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Amna, it’s a great point. And the question of sanctions, Secretary Rubio said to me, “I don’t even think sanctions would work to get Russia to engage in a ceasefire.” You’ve interviewed Zelenskyy multiple times. You’ve been on the ground in Ukraine. There was so much skepticism about this peace process heading in. And then as Monica notes, we are seeing this shift in tone from the White House.
AMNA NAWAZ:
And I think that skepticism remains. I want to point out that was a lot of maybes from the White House, as Monica’s reporting has showed, in terms of what happens next. I thought you were so right to necessarily call out the misinformation being pushed by the foreign minister there on the fact that Ukraine started the war, as they claim, and also that civilians are not being targeted on the ground. Your reporting shows that. I have seen that. As Monica laid out, this burst of momentum, the Alaska summit, Zelenskyy and the EU leaders coming to the White House, NATO military chiefs meeting together, there’s a lot of talk. The question is whether those are signals leading to something or whether they are noise, continuing to allow Russia to stall. Time benefits Putin right now. When I spoke to a former national security senior defense official who worked on NATO policy, he said the role for the U.S. to play here is critical, either as a backstop to any European security guarantees or in providing the kind of things Europeans can’t, transportation, intelligence, satellite communications. What we’ve seen from the White House is a move from President Trump saying, “We’re going to provide very good protection to more careful, mediated language now.” We also know that three and a half years into this war now, the U.S. and others can provide a process, but they can’t set the pace for that process.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Matt, for as dynamic as this situation is, the push for peace by President Trump, boy, we had a lot of headlines this week on the domestic front. That raid of former ambassador John Bolton’s home and office. You heard the vice president defend it and say, “This is not retribution.” Senator Adam Schiff has a very different take. Do you think this could potentially backfire against the president, against his allies? How do you see it? What are you hearing?
MATT GORMAN:
Well, look, it’s an important point that this started – this whole investigation started under the Biden administration, which I think you can’t get lost on that. And look, as the left has said to us over the course of many years, “No one is above the law.” I think at the end of the day, the allegations are far more reminiscent of about 20 years ago, the former Clinton official Sandy Berger when he had that issue with classified documents. We’ll find out how this plays out. But my bigger takeaway from all of this is if I’m Adam Schiff, if I’m Tish James, I’d be very worried right now. The Trump administration has been quiet on the Bolton front before this, but they’ve been very vocal about wanting to hold them to account when it comes to alleged mortgage fraud on that. And I think that’s likely going to come down the pike sooner rather than later. That’s my larger takeaway from this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Heitkamp, the fact that Matt points to the idea that this list might continue to grow, and this comes against the backdrop of the administration dispatching National Guard troops to D.C., the fight over gerrymandering. We’re obviously entering the midterms. What should Democrats be focused on? Should it be the issue of these investigations or should it be pocketbook issues? All of the above?
FMR. SEN. HEIDI HEITKAMP:
It should be nothing that is beltway.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
FMR. SEN. HEIDI HEITKAMP:
What you’re seeing right now is consumer sentiment as low as it was in the Biden administration. You’re seeing record increases in insurance rates and health insurance is going to hit like a ton of bricks at the end of the year. You are seeing food prices not coming down. And in the first Trump administration, the lower half or the lower quartile saw their wages increase dramatically. That’s inverted now. Richer people are getting richer. Poor people are having a harder time catching up. The Democrats have to lay the groundwork for an economic argument that they can do better because people out there are suffering, and that is getting ignored. The Trump administration isn’t doing this. He’s the master of changing the subject. I always said he’s great at Crazy Eights. If you’re losing playing hearts, change it to clubs. And that’s what he’s doing with a lot of the law and order stuff, with the Bolton stuff. Diversion, diversion, diversion. And Democrats have to stay razor-focused on the bread-and-butter and macaroni-and-cheese issues, not just the macro, the macro issues.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and Monica, to that point, I think a lot of Republicans are wondering if the White House is going to stay laser-focused on trying to sell the Big, Beautiful Bill. You had the vice president out in Georgia, as I referenced with him, there is so much that’s being thrown out there right now. What is the strategy moving forward?
MONICA ALBA:
Well, one example is the sort of rebranding of the One, Big Beautiful Bill, that they are now trying to message as the working family tax cut. Trying to put an emphasis on no tax on tips, no tax on overtime with limitations and up to a certain point and trying to really define it before some of the benefits, as Republicans would say, “kick in.” But before a lot of the issues with the Medicaid cuts also kick in, which of course Democrats and critics are really going to focus on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think Democrats will focus on in, Amna? Because to Heidi’s point, there is the risk of getting distracted by all of these other issues.
AMNA NAWAZ:
I really want to hear what Heidi has to say about this, whether they will or not. The economy is the single largest voting issue for all Americans, regardless of what else is swirling and regardless of what else the president promises and our reporting to follow up on our accountability of it. But on the economy, it’s resilient. There’s a good story for them to be telling there. You’re going to see the first rate cut in a long time likely in September. But the reason a former Fed governor told me we may not see more ahead is because of all the uncertainty, the tariffs and their long-term impacts, some of these policies and their long-term impact. There’s reasons to be concerned. Consumer confidence is down. It’s always the economy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you were name-checked. We saw the stock market soar after that indication that the Fed might cut rates.
FMR. SEN. HEIDI HEITKAMP:
The stock market is not the economy. And you need to look at how consumers are feeling, how voters are feeling, you know, especially independent voters. And right now, they don’t feel safe. They don’t feel secure economically. And they are deeply concerned about what’s going to happen going forward with tariffs, what’s going forward. And on the Big, Beautiful Bill, the biggest problem the Republicans have is the cost was actually a continuation of existing policy. So people aren’t going to see, the vast majority of Americans are not going to see a big refund at the end of the year saying, “Wahoo, Trump did great things for me.” And at the same time, you’re seeing record defaults in credit cards. You’re seeing record defaults in car loans. This is not a good economy for average people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, ten seconds left.
MATT GORMAN:
I’m watching the crime and law and order issue. It seems like Democrats are falling into that same trap they did on the economy and immigration under Biden, telling them things are better even though people don’t feel it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, President Trump clearly thinks it’s a winning issue for him. Thank you for a great conversation. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We’ll be back next week, because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.