6,800 € nebenkosten for year, is this normal?

23 comments

1. that looks quite high tbvh

2. Thats quite high. But the total cost ist not helpful, but whats behind it? What is The Water volume consumption? Is the price per liter high or is the volume high?
   You can request the numbers.

3. Do you have the Nebenkostenrechnung from last year?
   If you are new –> talk to your neighbors. It is high but I have no idea if Personenaufzüge is in that range usually. Also Waterconsumption is high

4. First, the biggest three items are …. insurance premiums, the elevator, and water (fresh and waste). The only one that you can influence is water. You’re paying about 150 per month to keep the public spaces clean, take care of the garden, and trash disposal.

   It’s a lot of money that you spend for “common areas” in and around the building.

5. That’s really really high. Double what I pay for the same qm, with heating included

   Also, not all things are to be divided per sqm, so the calculation is incorrect. Some are divided per number of people living in the apartment, some are straight-up divided per household.

   Also, why is their insurance so high? I don’t think tenants should pay for Sachversicherung

6. The elevator for 1.110€ is wild. And Unbelievable.

7. Water seems a little high, but you can check and verify how much you used here.

   Lift is also quite a high number, why do you have to even pay for it, shouldn’t it be part of the rent? Was there a renovation to the lift that you are now paying for? Quick Internet search:

   > Umlagefähig sind vor allem die laufenden Betriebskosten für den Aufzug, dazu gehören Strom, Wartung, Reinigung, die regelmäßige Sicherheitsprüfung und die Notrufbereitschaft. Kosten für Instandhaltungen, Reparaturen oder der Austausch defekter Teile sind hingegen nicht umlagefähig und müssen vom Vermieter getragen werden.

   Meaning you only need to pay for regular maintenance, power, etc, but not for repairs to the lift. Ask your landlord why it’s that expensive.

8. Very easy. You live in a place with an elevator , a gardener, apparently good outdoor lighting and a cleaning person. Those drive up the costs.

   Nevertheless, some of those costs are the owner’s responsibility not the tenants. For instance the first and last position should not be on you, the insurance costs are also weirdly high.

   It’s interesting to see this, you must live in a very nice building that has the money for all of this with only 550 sqm all in all

9. last year I paid 3,500 euros, almost half of this year.

   this year elevator was broken many times so it added the cost even though I live in ground floor.

10. Does it really cost 1300 Euro every year to have a lamp outside the house?

11. You can get this checked for like 20€-40€ online, which with this amount makes absolute sense. Just google for “Nebenkostenabrechnung online prüfen lassen”. All you have to do is upload all the documents and they will check this for you and even send a letter to your landlord in your name etc.

12. The only thing that catches my eye is the water usage, as it’s not individualised. You should have a meter for water usage and that’s what you should pay for, right now it looks almost as it is equally divided between all flats (and it is unlikely all of you use water the same way.). Other than that it does sound quite possible this is correct.

13. Water 1.112 EUR? Elevator 1.113 EUR? Thats way to high. Look up your Nebenkostenabrechnung from 2023 and 2022. If the numbers change drasticly the landlord has to tell you why.

14. This looks incredibly high

15. There should be more than this one page with a detailed break down of the costs.

    Overall seems very high indeed but you have to check the detail pages. How one could spent almost 7k on water is beyond me – if you don’t have thousands of sqm sealed property. And your lightning is either brighter than the sun or running on 100W light bulbs.

    On another note: “Haushaltsnahe Dienstleistungen” meaning services closely related to the house and household can be claimed in your tax return. For sure: Hausreinigung, Außenanlage Grünpflege and the schnee/eis thing.

    For “Personenaufzüge” you can also claim the labor costs.

16. 8k insurance and 4K outdoor maintenance is pretty wild for a 500 m2 house. By comparison we pay the same insurance and a quarter of the maintenance on a ~900 m2 11 unit building. You renting part of a mansion or something?

    Also, double check with the Mieterverein if you can do a 15% deduction on your water / heating costs, since the price is distributed only by area and not by a water meter. If you’re renting a wholly separate unit (Wohnung), then you can demand that reduction since 2022, but I’m not sure if the same is true of a house that’s not formally divided into condos. 

    Also, what exactly does “Personenaufzuege” mean? Are there multiple elevators? Is this some gigantic five story house and you just happen to rent an entire floor? Cause 5k seems quite high. Our property has one elevator and our maintenance expense is like 1-2k per year. 

    Anyways, the Mieterverein can help you with specifics, but at first glance this all seems pretty expensive. Also sucks that they did a 250 € Vorauszahlung when the reality ends up being 550€ per month instead. :/

17. Everything about this bill seems excessive to me. Outdoor lighting, insurance, elevator costs, and much more.

    This is definitely a case for professional help. File an objection and have the ancillary costs checked. If possible, also check last year’s bill. I believe (but am not 100% sure) that intentional misstatements and incorrect bills can still be contested.

    However, professional advice should be able to help here, which seems to be really necessary in this case.

18. Sachversicherung is realy high(double of normal rates for total qm of that building), Personenaufzüge is also higher than normal(also double of normal rates). Wasser und Entwässerung looks like there is only one water meter for the whole building? Please asks for the bills.

    570 Nebenkosten per month is wild.

19. Off to the Mieterbund you go. This is insane 

20. This looks wrong.

    1. Many of these don’t change and shouldn’t be much higher than in previous years. Your vorrauszahlung is too small to even cover the costs that should stay similar from year to year.

    2. With some, I am not sure they can be put towards you. The insurance, for example.

    3. Everything is divided by sqm.

    Did you talk to a neighbor, and did you see their Abrechnung?
    How was your Vorauszahlung amount decided?
    If it was decided as a “with typical consumption,” this should cover it, something went wrong here. The difference can’t be explained with more consumption.

    How big is the area that is taken care of for greenspace, winterdienst?
    How much lighting is there to cost over 1000€ a year?

21. No.

22. You may need professional ( lawyer or a tenants association). 

    Does the landlord own the full or majority of the building ? If so they can inflate certain costs that are passed to the tenants. To dispute those costs can be tricky and require proper council, because landlord will not backdown just with words without legal action. 

    Either way some expert should analyse the documents and see if ( inflated or right ) the values are correct.  

    Also if your monthly payments were to low for the real amount and the landlord knew, you can try to argue bad faith and don’t need to pay ( need to go to court likely ). 

    We don’t have all the data, maybe the landlord is right, something happen and there’s a bill, maybe the landlord is acting on bad faith, if so, majority will not go to court if is obvious that will lose, others don’t care. 

23. what I don’t understand is the water.

    It looks like this is just the “communal” water for the entire building.

    your personal water usage should be listed in the lower section and include the proper meter readings.

    I’d question the landlord or neighbours about that the very least

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