Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza, government concludes

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/israel-war-gaza-not-genocide-david-lammy-22wdsmt90

by GianfrancoZoey

21 comments

  1. > The UK does not consider Israel’s actions in Gaza to be genocide, David Lammy has said in a significant shift in position on the issue.

    > Until last week the UK government had maintained that the question of whether Israel had committed genocide was a matter for the courts and not for national governments to determine.

    > However, in a letter to the chair of the international development committee last week Lammy said that an assessment carried out by the Foreign Office had concluded that Israel’s actions did not constitute genocide.

    > The letter, sent before he was replaced as foreign secretary in the cabinet reshuffle, said: “As per the Genocide Convention, the crime of genocide occurs only where there is specific ‘intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group’. The government has not concluded that Israel is acting with that intent.”

    > Lammy said last year: “This government is not an international court. We have not — and could not — arbitrate on whether or not Israel has breached international humanitarian law.”

  2. Great, let’s see the evidence being marshalled in favour of that conclusion and establish it’s merits in relation to the legal and academic statements being made to the contrary. 

  3. Well then publish the assessment in full and explain how evidence was gathered on the ground by UK personnel?

  4. Meanwhile an undeniable genocide with already hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths is still in process a little further south in Sudan. Featuring widespread [deliberate targeting of civilians & mass-starvation](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czewgl1171lo), but no one really seems to care. The capital of Darfur region, El-Fasher remain encircled with no food or aid allowed to enter, civilians shot on sight if they try to leave and easily treatable diseases running rampant.

    Must be depressing for the millions affected all over Sudan to see their plight ignored whilst a far smaller conflict gets daily protests and international media saturation.

  5. Our report says it’s not a genocide, a verdict we reached after consulting the receipts from our arms sales.

  6. One day in the not too distant future (maybe 10 or 20 years). The question of whether or not this is a genocide, ethnic cleansing or just plain war crimes will be answered.

    The whole history is now becoming known. The facts are being published. The truth is finally out there for the masses. That gantry or viewing platform on the hill above Gaza where Israeli’s celebrated all the bombings well before Oct 7th is now out there for all to see.

    I look forward to seeing the supporters of these things brought to justice.

  7. They definitely either bribed or threatened the government to get them to say this.

  8. Must be hard to lead the country when you’re that blind.

  9. State that has slavishly supported Israel’s war of extermination is desperately trying to deny said war of extermination to save it’s own skin.

  10. Of course, the Israel lobby had a word.

    It’s weird how the UK position has gone from “we can’t be sure” to “definitely not” at the same time as credible institutions have moved towards “yeah, it definitely is”, and Israel is now levelling the last remaining major urban area in Gaza, and openly talking about the possibility of removing Palestinians from Gaza.

    And I bet they play the “Palestine isn’t a recognised nation” card to claim that Israel isn’t trying to remove a “national group”.

  11. I guess the legal and policy experts at Amnesty International, the ICRC, Save the Children, Human Rights Watch are somehow wrong yet the government that has knowingly facilitated genocide from the beginning, and clearly have no conflict of interest here, are totally right. They won’t release the report but just trust them, I guess. Also all the genocide scholars, holocaust professors, the union of journalists, the UN, multiple governments, the ICC and all the others are also wrong.

    Israel’s attrocities are the worst in modern history. They make the genocides in Myanmar with the Rohingya or Bosnia in Srebrenica, which the UK gov agreed with, look like a picnic.

  13. > The letter, sent before he was replaced as foreign secretary in the cabinet reshuffle, said: “As per the Genocide Convention, the crime of genocide occurs only where there is specific ‘intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group’. The government has not concluded that Israel is acting with that intent.”

    What happened to “we are not an international court and so can’t say whether or not it is genocide”? When it becomes about maintaining weapons sales to genocidal regimes they are able to make a judgement apparently.

  14. Genocide? Debatable. Ethnic cleansing? Undoubtedly.

  15. Would it have ever gone any other way? Doesn’t matter what international bodies or genocide scholars say. (Or even what knesset MKs boast of)

    Because we sell them arms, train their soldiers, pay for their recon flights out of our airbases.

    Acknowledging it as a genocide woulsnt just be awkward internationally, it’d have a strong risk of lammy and starmer in the hauge. There was no way the UK government would let facts get in the way. Heck wasn’t there a whistleblower recently who said he was told to water down reports.

  17. Treasonous bought and paid for MPs acting as Foreign state actors, have investigated their israeli paymasters and found no Genocide being committed.

    They have taken Blood money to facilitate the mass slaughter of children by the tens of thousands, of which, these corrupt politicians are fully complicit in.

    We need a war crimes trial ASAP- the evidence against them is overwhelming.

  18. When this is all said and done Lammy will not be able to go outside from sheer shame

  19. In other news, the British government have concluded that the duck shaped entity which seems to mimic a duck’s movement patterns, and also quakes akin to a duck, is NOT in fact a duck.

  20. Phew! Thats a load off my mind. I was worried we were funding and supporting a genocide.

  21. Hey look, it’s the times misrepresenting the truth for sensationalist clicks, who could have seen that coming.

    “As per the Genocide Convention, the crime of genocide occurs only where there is specific ‘intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group’. The government has not concluded that Israel is acting with that intent.“

    The quoted letter states that the UK government makes no conclusions of genocide, this is not the same as concluding there’s no genocide. It’s a small but extremely important difference. 

    As the article states, the UK governments position is that genocide is for the international courts to determine not individual governments and this letter actually is entirely consistent with that position.

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