Macron faces deepening French political impasse: But does he do compromise? • FRANCE 24 English

Macron faces deepening French political impasse: But does he do compromise? • FRANCE 24 English

In 2017, he blew up the system. Now, can he keep it together? Francis Emanuel M, remember, had never run for public office before becoming president. And for a while, he seemed exempt from the crude reality of political horse trading. Yet now, the same mechon who reigned supreme when he smashed the big tent center left and center right parties eight years ago seems to be running out of road in his second term with his baffling decision last year to dissolve parliament backfiring miserably. An even stronger opposition ousting the 47year-old president’s second prime minister in under a year on Monday. Mron hoped that with Michel Barnier and then France Bayou, he could stay in his comfort zone with a coalition that runs from traditional conservatives to the center. But Monday’s vote at the National Assembly wasn’t even close. A vote triggered to anticipate the bruising austerity budget battle still to come. Not to mention this Wednesday’s yellow vest inspired day of protest. Beyond the guessing game of who MO will pick next, is it about MO himself? the leader who promised Jupiter-like strength from on high and who now has to make concessions or a democracy that’s no longer so unique on a continent rife with populist pressures and fragmented political forces. Today in the France 24 debate, can that do compromise? With us, French senator representing citizens abroad, Elen Conway Murray of the Socialist Party. Thanks for being with us. Thank you for inviting us. Also with us, Shannon Sbon, municipal councelor in the Paris suburb of Ron Subwis from Emanuel Mron’s Renaissance Party. Welcome. Good evening. Thank you for the invitation. Tibo Muz is the author of Post Populism in French. Thank you for joining us from Rome. Thanks a lot for having me. and uh Matthew Dalton, journalist at the Paris Bureau of the Wall Street Journal, where we’ve noticed a few comparisons between France and Italy and Greece in the last few days. Maybe we’ll talk a bit more about that later. Thanks for being with us. Uh reminder, if you’re on the go, you can listen to the show wherever podcasts are stream. Presidential Palace says he’ll name a new prime minister in the coming days to act fast in naming his fifth head of government in under two years. Emerald Maxwell has more. Beeru leaves the prime minister’s office for the last time as premier and makes the short drive to the iliz to hand in his resignation after his crushing confidence vote. The result marks a new crisis for France, obliging President Emanuel Mong to search for a third prime minister in a year. His office said late Monday that he would do so in the coming days. Among the names circulating include some from the center left or center right or a technocrat. The challenge for Mong is to find a consensus or compromise figure. No easy task with a divided parliament in which everyone has an opinion. We have reiterated of course that for us it would be inconceivable for the president to make his choice by appointing a socialist prime minister. The president should appoint a figure outside of politics who will not be the prime minister, but who will be tasked over the next 3 weeks with bringing together political party leaders 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Alternatively, Mong could call snap parliamentary elections, an option he has refused despite calls for him to do so, especially from the far right, which was stamped to make gains. Either there is a prime minister who’s capable of finding a way to avoid being censured when he present his budget or one that’s not capable of finding a way. And in that case, we will put the question of the dissolution of parliament back on the table. Meanwhile, the hard left have reiterated calls for M himself to go. He has vowed to serve out his second term which ends in 2027. We will be submitting a motion of impeachment. The stakes are high. France urgently needs to address a budget deficit that stands at nearly double the European Union’s 3% ceiling. At this point in time, Chennel, first of all, this I’m going to name a prime minister in the coming days. The words in French was in the very coming days, like really shortly, but some even thought he’d make a statement this this Tuesday evening. didn’t happen on national television. When when do you expect to know the name of France’s successor? The earlier the better because the French situation, the economic situation at the moment cannot like we cannot wait anymore. I mean, we cannot afford in France now uh to have the luxury not having a budget and better a modest budget that not budget at all. So the earlier we will have the name of the future prime minister, the earlier he will be able to form uh his new government and then we will be able to move for a while I hope with the the will of all the political forces of our country whether they are coming from the left or from the right. So the earlier the better. So twice in a row now we’ve had um with this parliament that splintered three ways uh political heavyweights who’ve been around politics a long time. Michelle Barnier from the Conservatives, known to viewers as a man who negotiated Brexit. Then France Buu, a center-right politician who’s been in politics since 1980s, and he’s been he’s been he’s been a known figure. What kind of profile would you like to see next time? So say according to me, this is less a personal crisis than a systemic one. Um the fall of France government is not an accident. It is the symptom of a political system reaching its limits. Uh in France as we can see it the political system is now split into three blocks that does not want to discuss one with each other. The far left, the far right and the centrist majority. And I’m really convinced that the problem right now is that France must definitely move from a culture a political culture of confrontation to a political culture of coalition. Let’s have a look at Germany. In Germany, coalition is a normal part of democracy, whether with the SPD, the CDU or the liberals. In France, when you talk about coalition, when you talk about compromise, all political parties do think that this is kind of betrayal. And twice M did not really extend beyond a little bit to the right, but not very much. Will he be will he broaden out this time? I mean I’m pretty convinced that this is what he tried to do in the previous uh weeks in the previous years. As you can see it a few hours after France Beeru decided to discuss about the budget all the political parties in our country asked to a new presidential election wanted to run again for the French parliament. That means a lot. That means that this is not about the budget. This is not about like finding solution to improve French um uh daily life. It’s all about personal interest. Let’s have a look. In 1986, France accepted cohabitation with Jacqu Shiraak and it went well. So that definitely mean that the real question for France at the moment according to me is whether we dare to invent a new model where the culture of coalition becomes normal where the culture of compromise becomes something usual. We are at Millestone. I do sing. So it’s all about the efforts that we want to do in order to improve quickly graduating to that that culture of of coalition. Yeah. It’s a political aspect. And then and then com reference to 1986. You had a socialist president. You had a conservative majority elected a big conservative majority. The keys to the candy store were handed to to Prime Minister Jacqu Shiraak. Then today it’s unclear. There is no clear majority. So what are you expecting from the present? What should you be doing? Well, to draw the lessons from the past indeed, I think it’s important to see what worked in the past and maybe you know uh repeated. Um however the cohabit they worked because the personalities that were in place um were really true political leaders. Um there was indeed uh under Fran Frit but then there was Jack and Leonel Juspa who was prime minister but I do not believe that in Emanuel Mron’s mind who felt that he was going to build this time. Hold on. I’m just finishing just on that one. This big central right where the right and the left was going to you know be working together and so on. It’s not the French political culture. I understand the Germans do it, but that’s the way they’ve always done it. And I do not believe that you change a political culture just like that. It just doesn’t happen. And you’re absolutely right that there is a kind of a short term which is voting the budget. So we don’t have time to kind of see can we do away with the left, the right, and see that everybody is happy together in this big central block. It just is it’s just not working. It has been tried for the past eight years and it it is not working. What if you do like in Germany and you set it in stone with a platform that’s written in writing? But Emanuel M has never um indicated that he wanted to open to the left. I think he is fundamentally a right-wing person. He has not presented himself this way. But I think the the policies that he has put in place for the past eight years are fundamentally right-wing policies and therefore is nominating right-wing people. you know with the rejection that we see now both in the national assembly but also in the country there is a kind of an anger and I hope really I hope that it’s not going to express itself in a violent way on the 10th and the 18th of September the 10th is when there’s this yellow vest style movement and the 18th it’s trading well it’s you know it’s starting on social networks nobody knows exactly what’s going to happen and and that’s what worries me most because when The trade unions organize themselves. They have the security and everything is organized. They put you know they they ask the prefecture for the uh meetings and the marches that are taking place. But there it’s very difficult to know uh who is going to march where when and who is going to do it and and and also and we always know that you know apart from those who march and are you know there in good faith there are those who come for other purposes. So who you know fighting and and breaking things. So I’ll ask you the same the same question that I asked to to to Shannon. Who should Emanuel M name as prime minister? What kind of a profile? Well, somebody who is capable of putting the um the finances in order and who has the trust of the various parties and I I have some names in mind, people who could do the job and I do not feel that today it is a problem of our institutions or the political parties or whatever. were lacking political leaders like France who was named earlier uh Jacqu Shira. So you want a political leader, not a technocrat. Not a Well, we have had technocrats. We have had top civil servants. I mean, Madame Bourne is a pure example of of of of that. Not to say that she didn’t do the job that she was given. But it is not um how can I say it? Having been a minister myself and having worked with top civil servants, it’s just two worlds that need to come together and get the perfect decisions and the good text. But if you just have the one who supposed to be the other, it just doesn’t work. Tibu Muz, what does France need? Who does France need right now? Well, there’s there’s several options. Italy has a long history uh of of dealing with this type of crisis. And I can tell you that these days in Rome, I was trying to find the Italian or the French for Shabun uh but unfortunately could not find it in either language. But there is there is very much a a feeling that uh you know Italy was being criticized for for for not having long governments and governments that didn’t last. Uh and and I think now we we we probably should uh have a little bit of uh humility and look at what the Italians have done in the past to to work uh to to to work for a government when there was no when there was clearly no majority. Go ahead. Two ways. Sorry. Yeah, sure. For me, there are two two possibilities considering that the the centrist possibility is just not possible. Uh we’ve tried two center center right coalitions that didn’t work. A center center left coalition doesn’t work because there’s not the numbers and the will probably censor a a socialist prime minister. If not now, then later. Um so there’s two possibilities. One technical government uh sort of Mario Draggi or Mario Monty uh type of government. I don’t see a uh personality right now that fits the description and that is capable of carrying because you need a majority. So being capable of carrying the budget over the finish line. The other the last one that that nobody talked about and I understand that it’s a a big taboo but but it’s to open up. Uh remember that Mario Draggi when he got into government he opened the they opened the government to absolutely everybody fivestar movement uh lega uh fatal Italia maybe that’s the solution now you know we’re talking about you know the having a a culture of compromise so I would like to ask for example Mrs. Mrs. Are you ready to open up the coalition to get the into government or I think this is really a question that we all need to ask oursel the question also goes to the socialist party right uh are you if you want to get a government if you’re serious about that are you ready to enlarge the government to to people that right now are outside the condor sanitary I don’t see any other way right now and maybe the Another way to do it is to have new elections in which there would probably clearly be a majority. Probably not the majority that a lot of people on on this call would want, but that that would be the other the other solution. But in any case, this for me right now it’s the only solutions either technical government or uh having an opening up to what you are still calling the extremes right now. I I will put the question but just just one followup just to clarif clarify for our audience. You talk about what’s called in French in English the the I guess you could say the Republican firewall uh where which is what we have in France. It also exists in Germany where you don’t do coalitions with the far right. You’re suggesting that the only way is to break that firewall. Listen, the fire the firewall is off almost everywhere in Europe now. Germany is probably one of the the few countries in which it still exists. Sweden, the firewall down uh Italy, the firewall down uh in Spain, there is a firewall uh with uh with Vox, but the socialists have taken down the firewall with uh uh uh Podmos. So, so we are living a time in which the firewalls either are not working uh because there’s just like too many extremes on both sides, right? or too many too many marginal parties right now for for it to to work in the in the long run. uh so I don’t see any other option uh if you do it the luck that we have in some ways that with Emanuel Macron we have someone who can be a sort of guarantor uh that things are going to work according to the institutions right that we don’t end up in a in a sort of revolution one way or another like what is going on in the United States right now uh but yeah uh it’s it’s I I don’t see any other way right now Shannon Sabon you agree you you kind of need to extend it out to the far left to the far right. Definitely not. Uh you know what what’s the what’s at the core value of our political right now is to find extremism whether it is political or religious. So that means no national rally no la francsumis um especially because when you look at uh their values it’s absolutely not the democratic values that we would like to share. On the one hand, you do have with the national rally uh the national rally, sorry, uh an racist and xenophobia atmosphere that keeps going on besides the part inside the party. When you look at the atmosphere, when you look at some potential people that are working within the national rally, you do have still anti-semitism, racism, and xenophobia among the political party. On the other side, the far left is absolutely not responsible. their strategy only relies on cows and let’s have a look at the multiple calls they are making in order to go to the streets in order to um to instrumentalize some um international conflicts in order to gain voters. Their strategy both strategy is not to help people in their daily life is only to provoke cow. And the second point I would like also to highlight in once you have a look at their economic program. On the one hand the economic program on the far left rely on more than 300 billion euros deficit and additional expenses. On the other side, when you look at the economic program on the far right is more than 100 billion euros on in additional expenses, that means that their political program, their economic program is not sustainable on a long-term basis. It’s only based on populism. And what I think on the other end is that there is a chance for us in order to move forward, in order to improve French citizens and daily life, if we do have with us the socialists, the moderate from the left and from the right in order to build solution in order to improve French citizens and life in their life. But it’s only a question of a will and there is a will there is a pass. Keep the the Republican firewall. You say y uh in her speech at the national assembly on Monday, the leader of the farright, Marim Lupin, defended the current institutions, France’s fifth republic and the strong executive that had been laid out by General de Gaulle back in 1958. Uh the leader of the national rally stating it’s not the constitution that’s the issue in France, but the leadership on offer. All right. And to the torture of the French people and by accelerating history to prepare for the great turning of the tide. IT technicians call it a reset. This action of reinitializing a machine choked by bugs. The real reset will be the resignation of the president. But this decision only depends on him since he’s been constitutionally elected for 5 years. Well, I’m not expecting anything from him on that score. Not everyone can be General. Matthew Dalton, your thoughts on uh Marin Lupen as a defender of the institutions and a little bit trying to defend General De Gaulle. Well, I I think that um you know, the problem here is um what what Mron is is trying to do. He asked for democracy um when he called new elections a year ago. A year ago. And the fact is is that what he’s been trying to do ever since 2017 when he was elected is unpopular. It’s it’s largely on the economic front. Uh France didn’t want uh taxes, tax cut on capital, tax cuts on on wealth. Um they didn’t want his liberalization of the French economy. And for throughout his his term, he’s been he’s been pushing that agenda that surveys have he didn’t that have repeatedly shown is very unpopular. They didn’t want the pension reform. The protest made that very clear. Um and yet he got reelected after that pension reform. Well, he he by default he by default he he got reelected because he was running against Marine Le Pen. The same reason why he got elected in the first place because he was running against Marine Le Pen. So um both of Macron has been trying to do something that’s unpopular since he became president and since he was reelected and for some reason he asked for democracy thinking that the people would perhaps rally behind him uh rally behind his vision for the economy. Didn’t big surprise it didn’t happen. Uh so now what’s going on? Is he misinformed or was this part of some calculation looking forward? Yeah I I don’t know. I think everybody is very confused. It’s the big mystery behind this whole mess is why as you said the in your in your introduction the baffling decision to call for for elections. I think he might have thought that the uh that putting this question to the voters and the possibility of having the far right have a majority in the French parliament would be enough for for voters to rally once again behind um his party. And it didn’t work. And I I think you know what the other thing that’s been going on is that there’s been a real fracturing um in the French political system. You have the far right that’s grown much more powerful. The far left that’s grown much more powerful. Uh and the taboos behind voting for either one of those in particular the far right are are disappearing. And so I don’t think he he tried to count on that. He can’t count on that. um and his agenda uh it’s not gonna the the fear of the far right is not going to help him uh push through his economic agenda anymore. And Conway Murray yet we still have that deficit 6% as opposed to a an EU average which is nearly which is half of that. Yeah. And it was 3.2% in 2017 when he came to power. So I mean but um I’ve known him a long time. Um I think you know being president for the past 8 years he has been isolating uh himself more and more with a just a very small group of people that he trusts. uh that’s his way of um you know interacting with others and um also with the strong belief that he’s right that and it’s true that he understands quickly that he has a powerful mind but uh so is that a problem listens he listens and then he wants to prove that he’s the one who makes the decision and that happened if you remember in 2017 when you know with the general deleier who was kind of fired in front of everybody. That’s that is his style. He needs to assert himself. Well, that was that in 2017. And since then, I think we have had that problem of somebody and that does it with every president who is more and more isolated uh in the Eliz palace. I mean, that’s I don’t know whether it’s you know the system or whatever. But um what I want to say about the far right uh just to come back on that I mean I truly believe that we cannot forget what our history is in Europe and in France and to pretend today that because Madame Lupin changed the name of her party when she couldn’t change her own name and I think if she could have had she probably would have done it course uh I mean we just need to know where they come from what they stand for and you know what is in their program the political program is anti-European. Okay, we can reassure ourselves until or in Italy it’s not happening. You know, she’s not. But Madame Lupin said the first thing she will do is to cut back on the the European contribution of France. But where do we stand on the on the war on in Ukraine? Where do we stand, you know, within Europe when today we have this commercial war with the United States? I mean, you know, and where do we stand with our, you know, relationship with uh Russia? So, I mean, let’s okay, people are angry, and you’re absolutely right in your analysis, you know, the the rise of the far right and the far left, but we need to ask the question, why are people moving to the extremes? It’s because they do not feel that what is in place is actually giving them the answers they’re waiting for or the life they’re expecting to have. So they turn to those populists who um promise on political programs that are okay when you’re in a position but certainly are not to be put in place if they come to power because if France is doing badly today, you know, on the financial point of view with one or the other, they will be actually doing far worse. All right. Several news outlets here in France are uh stating that they have sources inside the presidential palace that say that we could have the name of the next prime minister within before the top of the hour. So we’ll see if that uh turns out to be true or not. Several news outlets are reporting that at this hour. Uh that’s just come in. Um so the fact that the announcement may come as we were saying at the outset sooner than later uh is also interesting on what Conway Muay said about the president being isolated. Is it because of the job or is it because of the fact that here you have a political novice who had never held elected office before he became president. He’d been finance minister, but he’d never been elected before. Um, to me, uh, to be fully honest with you, I mean, I do know, uh, President Mron is really clever, really smart, really reactive, and is connected. And it’s unfair to tell that the situation that we do have now in France is only because of him. The reality is that when you were elected president twice, I must recall it twice, that means that French people decided to vote for you. And you have your function. You have to this position which is the position of the president and then you have the position of the prime minister and the French national assembly and senate and all the political parties whether you are a member of the French parliament whether it is the assembly or the senate must like also bear their responsibility they have a huge role to play I mean we have to be fair who is voting the law it’s the member of the French parliament So they have to be responsible. I mean we have a system which is highly democratic but the fact is that at the moment you have at the French National Assembly some people who have been elected by French citizen not in order to build solution and to find solution in order to improve daily life of French citizens but their goal is only to use the institutions in order to block the country and that’s the issue when you are elected it’s to solve solutions whether it is in education in health in security in immigration because this is one of the top priority on French citizen at the moment it’s immigration we do have to build bridges and I mean I can see it as an elected official in subun basis with people who are coming from the left from the right and we are accepting to make some compromise okay we cannot have the perfect solution but it’s better to have a solution which is at the middle than no solution at all. And this is a Euran situation in which we are uh right now the top priority in the coming days in the coming week for France is to adopt a budget for 2026. I just would like to recall those who are listening to us that the deficit remains now at 5.8% which is at over like which is well higher than the EU average. We can definitely not afford the luxury of not having a budget. So each of us need to take their responsibilities to accept to be responsible at some point for the general interest. The general interest let’s play let’s go back a second. Election night 2022 Emanuel M’s been reelected. Uh and as the panelists have said uh it was a little bit by default in the runoff against the far right Mahin Leen. many voters holding their noses while casting their ballots in favor of him. And uh when he made his speech at the foot of the Eiffel Tower, he promised to bear that in mind. I know that many of our fellow citizens voted for me today, not to support my ideas, but to block those of the far right. [Applause] I would like to thank them and tell them that I’m aware that this vote places an obligation on me for years to come. Mer has lived up to that obligation. Uh that’s a good question, but maybe you can ask also the people behind him. I’m not sure everybody who was behind him on that night uh would today uh be ready to vote again for him. Uh I think this is this is also also the problem. He is he is indeed an isolated man and the the the center the center the center ground does not hold anymore. uh we we’re back into a a left right debate in which unfortunately I would like to say uh the uh the far right and the far left right now are in the advantage. I know that the center left and the center right are trying to get uh hold on the debate again. But the the the reality today and I think the the experience of the past uh of the past six months has shown is that there’s no more center. The center does not exist. It has exploded. No more center. You agree with that, Matthew Dolman? I don’t quite agree with that. I think that um I I don’t think the far left or the far right can win uh a majority of the French vote with their current platforms at all. I mean, I think that what you’ve seen from the far right, the the RN is their their popularity has grown as they have tacked toward the center. Marine Le Pen um in 2017, she her platform included exiting the euro for France. um 20 in 2022 she abandoned that position and she did a lot better. The party did a lot better. So, you know, the the the far right in particular has really abandoned some of its more controversial controversial positions in an effort to to win a majority. I and you know, Marine Le Pen before her latest legal troubles, I would argue that she was the favorite to win the next presidential election. Um so the the there is a broad I think there is a center within French politics. There are a group of positions that most people uh that can attract a majority support from most French people. However, those positions don’t include Macron’s economic agenda which he insists on pursuing despite all evidence that most French people don’t want it. Mo most French people don’t want it. And so we’ve had again these two prime ministers in succession that have been shot down by this parliament that’s split uh three ways perhaps even more when you see the the different shades within the National Assembly of left and and conservative when you compare with the United States. Is this a sign that France’s democracy is holding? That there are checks and balances or is it a sign of a country that’s broken? Well, I I I wouldn’t say it’s a country that’s broken. I think that um I think that actually I mean France is not actually under that much pressure in my opinion from financial markets to really uh to really take a decision that the yields on the debt are still manageable. Um in much the way the same way the United States has really not come under a lot of pressure for all of its political chaos. Um, so I think you know the the markets at any rate still view both systems as as strong maybe as too big to fail. There’s no place else to go for them other than investing in US and French debt. Um, I think that, you know, one advantage that that France might have is that there’s still I think the center is might be still stronger in France than in the United States. I I’m not sure about that. But um yeah, the the what what what Donald Trump has done in the United States is really pull the the electorate and in particular the Republican party to the right on many issues. Marine Le Pen, she’s been pulled to the center. Um it’s a different dynamic. The the I I don’t think that Marine Le Pen has the power over the French electorate and in particular the right half of the electorate the way Donald Trump has the power over the Republican party. Yeah. So, and Muay this harks back to what Tibu was saying at the outset of our conversation. You have a a prime minister who’s comes from the far right and is coveting traditional centur center right uh voters. Now, is that what France is headed for as uh the the political landscape once again gets uh reshuffled? M just thinking that Manuel M didn’t succeed indeed uh from an economic point of view to lead the country where it should be today but he had in mind to weaken the traditional political parties the trade unions you know anybody who had kind of you know a place I mean you know and the socialist and the republica were both weakened big time. His ambition was to think that if those Republican parties were to be weakened enough, they would actually be able to converge and he succeeded to a large extent. He did pension reform. He did rail reform. That’s why I’m saying that he succeeded. And in doing so, the extremes then grew, but without attracting those indeed that have these Republican values and want to uh to to defend them. So I do believe that the majority of French people are not in the extreme that at the moment we’re going through a political crisis. There’s a lot of anger at what was promised never delivered or just the opposite being done to you know what the French people kind of expected. But this is a political tension at the moment that doesn’t have to translate itself in France falling into the hands of the extreme right. And I think if we did that and I’m I just finished a European tour just because I’m working on a parliamentary report on uh um which asks me to come go and and talk to uh our counterparts, our partners. Um they’re extremely worried about us. And it’s not the fact that we’re changing our prime ministers that happens in other countries. It’s the fact that in 2027 they fear that the extreme right may indeed come to power because it’s a presidential system just a a prime minister who because the president is extremely powerful in France and will retain you know until 2027 all the powers. Okay. But having a prime minister is different from having an elected president. And if you know Mu Bila indeed will be maybe the candidate if Madame Lupin is not uh if he came to power it will be just a total change from a European perspective, the place of France in Europe and and in the world because they will just have a political uh agenda that will be totally different from what we have had so far. 2027 still a long ways away in France. You first have to name a prime minister and again we may have an announcement in the coming minutes. The French news agency AFP uh now also stating after those uh news channels uh that we could know the name within minutes of the name of France’s successor. And then of course there’s what happens on Wednesday. Uh this day of protest in the streets has been announced. shoppers uh stocking up uh in supermarkets like in the workingclass Paris suburb of Arante ahead of uh uh let’s block everything day is I guess how you loosely translate it uh a day a yellow vest inspired movement started on social media and uh uh we don’t know yet uh the extent to which people will be uh staging protests on Wednesday We’ve increased everything related to cereals by 20%, we also pushed everything related to cakes and snacks as well as everything related to breakfast. These are essential products for the shop. All right, so more more cakes and snacks. Are people treating Wednesday in your home constituency, which like is one of these workingclass suburbs of Paris, are they treating it as a home office day or are they saying this is the beginning of something bigger? No, I mean to be fully honest with you, it’s difficult to uh predict uh exactly what will happen. Uh the fact is that is like this movement uh was triggered by the far left on the social media and so on. But what I would like to remind to those who are listening to us uh is that uh this movement I’m going to interrupt you because according to uh French news channel BFM, we have a name of a a new prime minister. He’s been the armed forces prime minister Sebastian Lu named as PM. Let’s quickly go around the room for reaction to that. It’s not confirmed yet. So, we’ll see if that if that’s confirmed. Uh but uh we’re uh we’re also now we’re hearing it from an official source now. It’s from the Elise Palace according to the Reuters news agency. Uh your reaction? Good news. Good news. Uh because the nomination, the appointment of Sebastian Lucu was really quick. So I’m really happy about that. That also means that the French president has decided uh to move forward very quickly because he is aware as most of French people that we definitely need to adapt the budget very quickly because the situation in France cannot afford uh to wait anymore. So I’m really glad of this appointment. I’m no expecting of the all the political party in France to be fair to accept this appointment but also to be opened in order to work all together in the general interest which is the common life and the daily life of French citizen that should be our absolute priority let’s move forward let’s forget about um our personal calculation in order to uh be elected in 26 or 207 I don’t know let’s move forward ward in the interest. Let me go quickly around the room. Uh Elen Conway Mur uh will your socialist party how will how will they react to this nomination? Well, it’s a continuum the same policies till the end no change I know. Is the outgoing armed forces minister someone you can do business with? Well, I can certainly because I have you know I’m the reporter for the equipment of the French armed forces. So I do spend a lot of time with Sebastiano from a personal point of view. He’s is he’s is a good guy. He’s extremely talented. He’s very political. He’s not technically he’s political and that’s a good thing. But uh I think it’s bad news. I think it’s bad news uh not because of his talents and he has loads of them because it’s just a very strong signal that nothing will change until 2027. The same policies will be put in place and it’s going to be difficult. But I I thought that President Mron liked Mukon a bit better because you appoint him the day before the 10th. I think it’s not it’s not very good for him. Yeah. To Tib, is this about uh getting a budget passed quickly or is it about having a prime minister ahead of a day of social uh protest so that not all the attention is on the president? Well, I mean, I was just talking about uh opening up versus closing down, and I think we’re we’re getting the closing down version. So, I I would I would imagine that Mr. Macron is is circling the wagons around around the ed. That’s that’s probably a way to do that. Nothing to do with Mr. Lacono is obviously a very competent person. I think the the the other speakers have said it. Uh but but but the problem here once again we’re we’re talking about a uh a government that is going to be extremely restricted. Uh and and that is not going to last a year. Maybe I mean maybe it will go a little bit until the the the the year after but uh you know maybe we’ll pass this budget. Who knows? There might be a miracle that that that might happen. But it’s it’s not going to prove a lasting government and a government that is going to be at the mercy of uh of any event basically because it it is very very very far from having a majority. This in a period as we know a period of crisis for France. So um I’m I’m afraid this is not going to resolve the problems that France has right now. Matthew Dalton the official statement from the French presidential palace. I’ll read it out to you. It says that uh uh Sebastian Lukallu, again, this is the armed forces minister, uh has been uh uh has been handed the task of consulting the parties to quote uh build the in the um invaluable uh accords needed to make decisions in the coming months. Do you believe that he can prove Senator Kame Mu and that the French can do compromise? Well, I if was if Lornney was supposed to be doing that, what was is going to be doing that? What was Byru doing this whole time? Uh I mean, wasn’t that wasn’t Byru supposed to be doing that? So, I think that that brings me to my point that it’s not about the person as far as I can tell. I think ideologically Loru and Bou very similar. Um it’s about what policies uh the Macron’s party and uh I think all you know what sacred cows are the different factions willing to give up to come to to come to a compromise in particular I’m thinking in particular about the pension reform is is Macron’s is Macron himself willing to give up some pieces of the pension reform that cost him so much political capital um to to get a budget passed all right and we we’ll see the proof will be in the pudding. the uh in any case much more as this story is definitely still unfolding. I want to thank you Matthew Dalton. I want to thank you and Conway Mur Shannon Subon Tibo Muz for being with us from Rome. Thank you for being with us here in the France 24 debate. [Music]

In 2017, he blew up the system. Now, can he keep it together? France’s Emmanuel Macron had never run for public office before becoming president. And for a while, he seemed exempt from the crude reality of political horse-trading. Yet now, the same Macron who reigned supreme when he smashed the big tent centre-left and centre-right parties eight years ago is running out of road in his second term, with his baffling decision last year to dissolve parliament backfiring miserably and an even stronger opposition ousting the 47-year-old president’s second prime minister in under a year on Monday.

Macron had hoped that with Michel Barnier and then François Bayrou, he could stay in his comfort zone with a coalition that runs from traditional conservatives to the centre. But Monday’s vote at the National Assembly wasn’t even close. That vote was triggered to anticipate the bruising austerity budget battle that’s still to come, not to mention this Wednesday’s Yellow Vests-inspired day of protest. 

Beyond the choice of Bayrou’s successor – now confirmed as outgoing defence minister Sébastien Lecornu – is it about Macron himself, the leader who promised Jupiter-like strength from on high and who now has to make concessions, or a democracy that’s no longer so unique on a continent rife with populist pressures and fragmented political forces?
#Macron #PM #Lecornu

Read more about this story in our article: https://f24.my/BQDw.y

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