Rachel Maddow’s full interview with Kamala Harris I MSNBC EXCLUSIVE

Rachel Maddow’s full interview with Kamala Harris I MSNBC EXCLUSIVE

>> PRIDE. >> I CAN’T. >> SO GET READY. >> FOR FOOTNOTES ONLY. THANKS YOU GUYS. >> MUCH APPRECIATED. >> KIND OF. ALL RIGHT. >> AND THANKS TO AT HOME FOR JOINING US TONIGHT. >> WE DO HAVE VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS HERE TONIGHT FOR HER FIRST. NEWS INTERVIEW SINCE LEAVING OFFICE, HER FIRST NEWS INTERVIEW SINCE THE ELECTION. >> I’M VERY EXCITED. >> TO SPEAK WITH HER. I’M A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT THIS INTERVIEW BECAUSE IT’S A BIG DEAL, I’LL TELL YOU. I DO HAVE ONE THING TO TELL YOU, THOUGH. SEPARATE AND APART FROM THAT, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, MSNBC HAS JUST TODAY ANNOUNCED THAT MY NEW DOCUMENTARY IS GOING TO BE AIRING HERE ON FRIDAY, OCTOBER 17TH. THIS IS A BRAND NEW DOCUMENTARY I’VE MADE. IT’S CALLED ANDREW. >> YOUNG THE. >> DIRTY WORK. WE’RE GOING TO HAVE A SPECIAL RACHEL MADDOW. >> SHOW. >> HERE ON MSNBC. THAT NIGHT AT 8 P.M. EASTERN. IT’S FRIDAY, OCTOBER 17TH, AND THEN THE DOC IS GOING TO AIR RIGHT AFTER THE SHOW. >> SO IF YOU. >> JUST POP THAT IN. >> YOUR CALENDAR. >> FOR ME, IF YOU DON’T MIND, FRIDAY, OCTOBER 17TH I WILL HAVE MORE TO TELL YOU ABOUT IT IN THE DAYS AHEAD. BUT IT WAS JUST ANNOUNCED TODAY, SO I WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW. THAT SAID. TONIGHT WE ARE GOING. >> TO BE SPEAKING WITH VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS. YOU MAY REMEMBER. >> THERE WAS A SORT. >> OF MANTRA IN HER. >> CAMPAIGN. A A CALL IN RESPONSE THAT SHE USED IN HER RALLIES. SHE WOULD SAY, WHEN WE FIGHT, WE WIN. SHE’D SAY, WHEN WE FIGHT. AND THEN EVERYBODY WOULD SAY, BACK WITH. >> HER. >> WE WIN. >> AND OF COURSE, WHAT EVERYBODY KNOWS. >> NOW, VERY MUCH. >> ALL TOO WELL, IS. >> THAT SHE DID NOT WIN THE ELECTION. AND HER NEW BOOK IS ABOUT THAT. THE NEW BOOK IS CALLED 107 DAYS. IT COMES OUT TOMORROW. IT IS THE STORY OF HER 107 DAY LONG CAMPAIGN FOR THE PRESIDENCY, THE SHORTEST PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IN MODERN HISTORY. SHE DESCRIBES IN THE BOOK, ON PAGE ONE, HOW SHE LEARNED FROM. PRESIDENT BIDEN THAT HE WOULD END HIS CAMPAIGN AND HAND THE REINS TO HER. SHE LEARNED THAT NEWS LESS THAN HALF AN HOUR BEFORE THE WHOLE REST OF THE WORLD LEARNED IT AS WELL. SHE WRITES ABOUT HOW EVERYBODY IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS RESPONDED WHEN SHE MADE ALL HER FIRST PHONE CALLS TO TELL EVERYBODY THE NEWS, TO ASK THEM FOR THEIR SUPPORT. SHE TOOK NOTES FROM THOSE CALLS, AND SHE PRINTS THE. >> NOTES IN HER. >> BOOK, PAGE 17, BILL CLINTON SAYS, OH MY GOD, I’M SO RELIEVED. SEND ME ANYWHERE. MAKE THIS YOUR OWN CAMPAIGN. HILLARY CLINTON WILL DO WHATEVER WE CAN. WE’LL JUMP ON A PLANE. WE’LL GET ON AMTRAK. JIM CLYBURN. >> SAYS. >> LET’S GO. I’M ALL IN. ROY COOPER, GOVERNOR OF NORTH CAROLINA, SAYS, BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING, I’M ALL IN. PETE BUTTIGIEG SAYS YOU ARE GOING TO BE A FANTASTIC PRESIDENT. MARK KELLY, THE SENATOR FROM ARIZONA, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WRITES, QUOTE, HE TWEETED HIS ENDORSEMENT EVEN BEFORE I REACHED HIM. SO FAR, SO GOOD, RIGHT? BUT NOT ALL THE CALLS WENT LIKE THAT. AND THIS IS THE KIND OF CAMPAIGN BOOK YOU MIGHT DIPLOMATICALLY CALL CANDID, WHICH MEANS IT IS NOT ALL NICE. AND SO WE ALSO GET VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS’S NOTES ON THE OTHER RESPONSES SHE GOT. GRETCHEN WHITMER, I. BELIEVE YOU WILL WIN, BUT I NEED TO LET THE DUST SETTLE. TALK TO MY COLLEAGUES BEFORE I MAKE A PUBLIC STATEMENT. PRESIDENT OBAMA SAYS IN PART, QUOTE, MICHELLE AND I ARE SUPPORTIVE, BUT NOT GOING TO PUT A FINGER ON THE SCALE RIGHT NOW. LET JOE HAVE HIS MOMENT. THINK THROUGH TIMING. NANCY PELOSI SAYS IN PART, IT’S IMPORTANT THAT THERE’S A PROCESS. WE HAVE A GREAT BENCH. WE SHOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF PRIMARY, NOT AN ANOINTMENT. BERNIE SANDERS SAYS IN PART, QUOTE, PLEASE FOCUS ON THE WORKING CLASS, NOT JUST ON ABORTION. J.B. PRITZKER SAYS, AS GOVERNOR OF ILLINOIS, I’M THE CONVENTION HOST I CAN’T COMMIT. AND THEN GAVIN NEWSOM, SHE WRITES, HIKING, WILL CALL BACK, AND THEN SHE PUTS IN PARENTHESES. HE NEVER DID. IN 107 DAYS. YOU GET KAMALA HARRIS’S THOUGHTS ON PICKING HER VICE PRESIDENT, INTERVIEWING MARK KELLY AND JOSH SHAPIRO, AND THEN ULTIMATELY CHOOSING TIM WALZ AND ALL THE GREAT THINGS THAT WERE GREAT ABOUT TIM WALZ, HOW MUCH IN PARTICULAR SHE LOVED TIM WALZ, HIS WIFE GWEN. BUT SHE ALSO WRITES ABOUT WHY PETE BUTTIGIEG WAS HER PERSONAL FIRST CHOICE FOR HER RUNNING MATE. YOU GET HER DETAILED THOUGHTS ON HOW PRESIDENT BIDEN’S AGE SHOWED WHEN HE WAS TIRED, AND HER VIEW THAT THE WHITE HOUSE BASICALLY MISMANAGED THAT, SHE SAYS PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS NOT INCAPACITATED. HE WAS ABSOLUTELY CAPABLE OF GOVERNING, AND HE WAS, IN FACT, VERY GOOD AT IT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRETY OF HIS TERM. BUT SHE ALSO WRITES THAT HE WAS NOT UP TO THE TASK OF CAMPAIGNING WELL FOR ANOTHER TERM. AND SHE WRITES ABOUT HER REGRET AND HER FRUSTRATIONS FOR HOW THAT WAS HANDLED BY THE PRESIDENT’S SENIOR STAFF. I WILL TELL YOU THIS. THIS BOOK IS GOING TO SELL A GAZILLION BAZILLION COPIES. AND VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS’S BLUNTNESS AND CLARITY ON THOSE STILL VERY PAINFUL MATTERS IS GOING TO BE A BIG PART OF WHY THE BOOK, AS I SAID, GOES ON SALE TOMORROW. YOU WILL READ IT IN ONE SITTING. IT IS. IT IS AN UNPUTDOWNABLE BOOK. YOU SHOULD YOU SHOULD BUY IT. BUT HERE’S THE OTHER THING ABOUT THIS BOOK AND ABOUT KAMALA HARRIS. IN THIS MOMENT WHEN WE FIGHT, WE WIN. I MEAN, THIS IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. THESE WERE PROTESTS ON THURSDAY AND ON FRIDAY AND ON SATURDAY AND ON SUNDAY. AND TODAY, ALL ABOUT ABC TAKING COMEDIAN JIMMY KIMMEL OFF THE AIR AFTER THREATS FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION EFFECTIVELY DIRECTING THEM TO DO SO. AND THOSE PROTESTS WERE IN NEW YORK AND IN LOS ANGELES, YES, BUT ALSO IN PLACES LIKE CENTRAL WASHINGTON STATE, YAKIMA, WISCONSIN. YAKIMA, WASHINGTON. AND IN MOUNT KISCO, NEW YORK. WE SAW VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HERSELF JOIN THE CALLS CONDEMNING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND ABC FOR DOING THAT. SHE PUT OUT A STATEMENT LAST WEEK CALLING IT AN OUTRIGHT ABUSE OF POWER. WE SAW STATEMENTS OF PROTESTS FROM HER, FROM PRESIDENT OBAMA, FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF DISNEY, ABC’S PARENT COMPANY, MICHAEL EISNER. WE SAW PUSHBACK FROM EVERY OTHER COMEDIAN IN TV WHO TRUMP HAS PUSHED TO GET RID OF, INCLUDING STEPHEN COLBERT, WHO CBS SHOULD MAYBE UNCANCEL NOW THAT EVERYBODY CAN AGREE WHAT COWARDS THEY WERE TO. WE SAW STATEMENTS OF PROTEST FROM BASICALLY ALL OF HOLLYWOOD AND THE MUSIC BUSINESS AND THE UNIONS AND THE ACLU AND EVERY CELEBRITY YOU’VE EVER HEARD OF, AND PEOPLE CANCELING THEIR DISNEY+ SUBSCRIPTIONS AND PEOPLE WHO MAKE SHOWS AND MOVIES FOR ABC AND DISNEY SAYING THEY WOULD NEVER MAKE SHOWS AND MOVIES FOR THAT COMPANY AGAIN AS LONG AS THIS DECISION STOOD. AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW? WHEN WE FIGHT, WE WIN. ABC THIS AFTERNOON DECIDED, OKAY, LET’S THROW THIS IN REVERSE. JIMMY KIMMEL WILL BE BACK ON THE AIR TOMORROW NIGHT. AND AS FOR STEPHEN COLBERT ON CBS, STAY TUNED, BECAUSE OF COURSE, HIS FIRING IS JUST AS INDEFENSIBLE, IF NOT MORE SO IN THIS NEW BOOK. IN 107 DAYS, VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS WRITES ABOUT PREDICTING HOW BAD DONALD TRUMP WOULD BE IN HIS SECOND TERM AS PRESIDENT. SHE SAYS, QUOTE, I PREDICTED ALL THAT. I WARNED OF IT. WHAT I DID NOT PREDICT WAS THE CAPITULATION ABOUT THE GROVELING, SCARED, RICH OWNERS OF THE LA TIMES AND THEN THE WASHINGTON POST PULLING THEIR PAPER’S ENDORSEMENTS OF HER JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION. SHE SAYS THE CAPITULATION OF THESE POWERFUL BILLIONAIRES ALARMED AND DISPIRITED ME. AS IT TURNED OUT, THEY WERE EARLY ADOPTERS. AS IT TURNED OUT, THEY WERE EARLY ADOPTERS OF THE FECKLESS POSTURE THAT WOULD BE EMBRACED BY A RAFT OF BUSINESS LEADERS AND INSTITUTIONS ONCE TRUMP WAS ELECTED. THEY HAD JUST BEEN THE FIRST IN LINE TO GROVEL. AND THEN SHE SAYS THIS ABOUT WHAT SHE WHAT SHE’LL DO NEXT. SHE WRITES, QUOTE, I WANTED A SEAT AT THE TABLE. I WANTED TO MAKE CHANGE FROM INSIDE THE SYSTEM. TODAY, I’M NO LONGER SURE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS FAILING US AT EVERY LEVEL EXECUTIVE, JUDICIAL, LEGISLATIVE, CORPORATE, INSTITUTIONAL, MEDIA, EVERY SINGLE GUARDRAIL THAT IS SUPPOSED TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY IS BUCKLING. I THOUGHT THOSE GUARDRAILS WOULD BE STRONGER, I WAS WRONG. BUT NOW, OF COURSE, THE ELECTION IS OVER. AND WITH THE ELECTION NOW OVER, THE FIGHT THAT WE’RE IN NOW IS TO SHORE UP THOSE GUARDRAILS TO REBUILD THEM WHERE THEY HAVE FALLEN, TO MAKE POWERFUL PEOPLE LESS COWARDLY, SOMEHOW, TO STOP PEOPLE AND INSTITUTIONS FROM CAPITULATING. AND IF THEY DO CAPITULATE THE JOB NOW, THE FIGHT NOW IS TO GET THEM TO SEE THEY WERE WRONG TO DO SO AND TO GET THEM TO REVERSE THEMSELVES. THAT IS THE FIGHT. NOW, KAMALA HARRIS SAYS, WHEN WE FIGHT, WE WIN. TURNS OUT THAT MAY BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER. AFTER AN ELECTION THAT YOU DID NOT WIN. JOINING US NOW FOR HER FIRST NEWS INTERVIEW SINCE THE ELECTION IS FORMER VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS. MADAM VICE PRESIDENT, THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> RACHEL, IT’S GOOD TO SEE YOU. >> IT’S GOOD TO BE HERE. >> IT’S WEIRD TO TALK ABOUT YOU. WITH YOU SITTING HERE AND ME PRETENDING YOU’RE NOT HERE. >> SO IT. >> WAS AWKWARD FOR ME, TOO. >> OKAY. >> HOW HAVE YOU BEEN? >> I AM. >> WELL, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, I’M WELL. >> HOW HAVE YOU BEEN? TAKING YOUR CARE OF YOURSELF SINCE THE ELECTION. >> YOU KNOW, I’VE. I HAVE AN INCREDIBLE FAMILY. I’VE BEEN SPENDING MORE TIME WITH THEM THAN I HAD FOR QUITE SOME TIME. COOKING. >> YEAH. >> AND WRITING. >> AND REFLECTING AND, YOU KNOW, TALKING A LOT OF PEOPLE MAKING A LOT OF CALLS, RECEIVING A LOT OF CALLS. SO I’VE BEEN BUSY. >> LET ME TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS CAPITULATION THING. THIS REALLY LANDED WITH ME. I FEEL LIKE WE’RE ALL IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, BUT YOU ARE ARTICULATING IT IN THE WAY THAT YOU DO. YOU’VE BECOME THE PATRON SAINT OF. I TOLD YOU SO IN TERMS OF PEOPLE UNDERSTANDING THE SORT OF WARNINGS AND PREDICTIONS THAT YOU MADE ABOUT WHAT TRUMP WOULD BE LIKE. BUT YOU SAY, I PREDICTED ALL OF THAT. I WARNED OF IT. WHAT I DIDN’T PREDICT WAS THE CAPITULATION, THE BILLIONAIRES LINING UP TO GROVEL, THE BIG MEDIA COMPANIES, UNIVERSITIES, SO MANY MAJOR LAW FIRMS. I WILL NOTE, INCLUDING YOUR HUSBAND’S. >> AND HE SPOKE OUT ABOUT IT. >> HE’S BEEN VERY VOCAL IN CRITICIZING IT. YOU SAID THEY’VE ALL BEEN BENDING TO BLACKMAIL AND OUTRAGEOUS DEMANDS. YEAH. WHY DID YOU NOT PREDICT THE CAPITULATION? AND WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE EFFORT TO TRY TO PUT SOME STEEL IN THE SPINE OF THOSE INSTITUTIONS? >> SO, AS YOU KNOW, I AM A LIFELONG PUBLIC SERVANT, AND BUT I’VE WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR OVER MANY YEARS, AND I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT IF PUSH CAME TO SHOVE, THOSE TITANS OF INDUSTRY WOULD BE GUARDRAILS. FOR OUR DEMOCRACY, FOR THE IMPORTANCE. OF SUSTAINING DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS. AND ONE BY ONE BY ONE, THEY HAVE BEEN SILENT. THEY HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW. YES, I USE THE WORD FECKLESS. THEY’RE IT’S NOT LIKE THEY’RE GOING TO LOSE THEIR YACHT OR THEIR HOUSE IN THE HAMPTONS. AND AND HERE’S THE THING. DEMOCRACY SUSTAINS CAPITALISM. CAPITALISM THRIVES IN A DEMOCRACY. AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE DEALING WITH, AS I CALLED HIM AT MY SPEECH ON THE ELLIPSE, A TYRANT. >> WE USED. >> TO COMPARE THE STRENGTH OF OUR DEMOCRACY TO COMMON COMMUNIST DICTATORS. THAT’S WHAT WE’RE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW. DONALD TRUMP AND THESE TITANS OF INDUSTRY ARE NOT SPEAKING UP. AND PERHAPS IT IS BECAUSE HIS THREATS AND THE WAY HE HAS USED THE WEIGHT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO TAKE OUT VENGEANCE ON HIS CRITICS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY FEAR. AND I GET THAT. I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DO. WE’VE SEEN THE DEMONSTRATION OF IT. PERHAPS IT IS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO PLEASE HIM AND NOMINATE HIM FOR A NOBEL PRIZE. PERHAPS IT’S BECAUSE THEY WANT A MERGER APPROVED, OR THEY WANT TO AVOID AN INVESTIGATION. BUT AT SOME POINT, THEY’VE GOT TO STAND UP FOR THE SAKE OF THE PEOPLE WHO RELY ON ALL OF THESE INSTITUTIONS TO TO HAVE INTEGRITY AND TO AT SOME POINT BE THE GUARDRAILS AGAINST A TYRANT WHO IS USING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO EXECUTE HIS WHIM AND FANCY BECAUSE OF A FRAGILE EGO. >> I KNOW THAT YOUR PARENTS TOOK YOU TO PROTESTS IN IN A STROLLER WHEN YOU WERE A LITTLE KID, BEFORE YOU WERE LITERALLY ABLE TO BE THERE TO WALK, AND THAT YOU’VE TALKED ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND ITS MORAL LEGACY BEING PART OF YOUR MORAL CORE. >> YES. >> I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF THE DEFENSES THAT WE TRIED TO BUILD UP IN ADVANCE OF THIS TYPE OF A SORT OF WOULD BE AUTHORITARIAN TAKEOVER WERE ABOUT WARNING PEOPLE ABOUT HOW SERIOUS THE THREAT WAS AND WARNING PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT THIS COULD MEAN AND WHAT WE WERE IN DANGER OF. NOW THAT WE’RE UP AGAINST IT, THOUGH, I’M NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE GREAT SKILLS TO ACTUALLY NOT WARN ABOUT IT, BUT FIGHT IT. AND IF THE PROBLEM IS THE SYSTEM COLLAPSING AND THE GUARDRAILS, AS YOU SAY, COLLAPSING, AND PEOPLE BEING PEOPLE WHO HAVE POWER, WHO OUGHT TO BE TITANS, NOT ACTING IN ANY SORT OF TITANIC. >> STANDING TOGETHER BECAUSE THERE IS SAFETY IN NUMBERS, AS THE SAYING GOES. >> YES. I WONDER IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO ARE REPULSED BY WHAT TRUMP IS DOING AND WHO ARE IN PUBLIC OPINION POLLING VERY MUCH AGAINST WHAT HE’S DOING, AS YOU NOTE IN THE BOOK. ARE GOING TO BE TURNING THEIR IRE AND THEIR PROTEST MOVEMENT AND THEIR ORGANIZATIONAL CAPACITY AGAINST THESE INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE FAILING AS MUCH AS THEY ARE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF AND THE ADMINISTRATION. IF THAT’S THE WAY THE SORT OF RESISTANCE IS HEADED. >> SO ONE, BACK TO HOW YOU OPENED THE SHOW. I MEAN, TALK ABOUT THE POWER BEING WITH THE PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE MAKING THAT CLEAR WITH THEIR CHECKBOOKS AS IT RELATES TO THE SUSPENSION OF JIMMY KIMMEL. WE SAW THE POWER OF THE PEOPLE OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS, AND IT SPOKE VOLUMES, AND IT MOVED A DECISION IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I THINK THAT PART OF WHERE WE ARE NOW, IN TERMS OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE FIGHT IS, REQUIRES US, YES, TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE’VE GOT THIS ADMINISTRATION AND THIS PRESIDENT IN FRONT OF US ABUSING THE POWER THAT THE PEOPLE VESTED HIM WITH. BUT WE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS BIGGER THAN DONALD TRUMP. YOU KNOW, PART OF WHAT I WRITE ABOUT THIS STUFF IS DECADES IN THE MAKING. RACHEL, IT DIDN’T JUST HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. YOU KNOW, SO MUCH OF WHAT HAS INDEED OVERWHELMED PEOPLE, NOT TO MENTION JUST SCARED THE STUFF OUT OF PEOPLE. IS IT? WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING. IS A HIGH VELOCITY EVENT? YEAH, WE ARE WITNESSING SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SO RAPIDLY AND IT FEELS CHAOTIC. BUT WHAT I WOULD OFFER YOU IS WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING IS THE SWIFT IMPLEMENTATION OF A PLAN THAT WAS DECADES IN THE MAKING, DECADES IN THE MAKING. PROJECT 2025 DIDN’T JUST DROP OUT OF THIN AIR. THAT’S A PRODUCT OF DECADES OF WORK. FEDERALIST SOCIETY, HERITAGE FOUNDATION UNDERSTAND THAT THAT THE IMPLEMENTATION OF A PLAN THAT’S ABOUT TRYING TO GET RID OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, DEREGULATE INDUSTRIES, WEAKEN THE RULE OF LAW BY OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, CREATING A SYSTEM AND THROUGH GERRYMANDERING. >> STATES. >> SO THAT WE WOULD NOW HAVE THE SUPREME COURT THAT WE HAVE. THIS STUFF DIDN’T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT, AND IT DID NOT HAPPEN JUST BECAUSE OF AN ELECTION IN 2024 OR EVEN 2016. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHERE THE FIGHT MUST GO, THERE IS THE ASPECT OF IT THAT IS ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE MOMENT, SUCH AS THE WEIGHT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BEING USED TO SILENCE CRITICS, CITIZENS, AND IT MUST BE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS DID NOT JUST HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. AND WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO AN AGENDA THAT NOT IS NOT GOING TO NECESSARILY GO AWAY WHEN THIS GUY IS FINALLY TERMED OUT OF OFFICE. >> WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ON THAT GERRYMANDERING FRONT, THE WHITE HOUSE HAS BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE, PUSHING REPUBLICAN LED STATES TO GERRYMANDER THEIR MAPS TO EFFECTIVELY GIVE REPUBLICANS A MAJOR EDGE HEADING INTO THE MIDTERMS NEXT YEAR. THAT HAS LED TO RELATED DEMOCRAT RESPONSIVE DEMOCRATIC EFFORTS, INCLUDING IN YOUR HOME STATE OF CALIFORNIA. DO YOU SUPPORT DEMOCRATS EFFORT TO KIND OF FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE THERE? WILL YOU BE INVOLVED IN THAT CALIFORNIA MEASURE, FOR EXAMPLE? >> I ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT IT. YOU MENTIONED GAVIN EARLIER, BY THE WAY. GAVIN HAS A GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR. >> SO. >> YOU KNOW, HE’S GOING TO BE FINE. >> BUT DID. >> YOU WARN HIM ABOUT THE HIKING THING WAS GOING TO. >> YOU DID OKAY. >> I’VE KNOWN GAVIN FOREVER. HE LITERALLY HAS A GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR. BUT LET ME SAY ABOUT WHAT HE IS DOING WITH REDISTRICTING, IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. PART OF WHAT WE’VE GOT TO, I THINK, CHALLENGE OURSELVES TO ACCEPT IS THAT WE TEND TO PLAY BY THE RULES. BUT I THINK THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE YOU GOT TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE. AND SO WHAT GAVIN IS DOING, WHAT THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE IS DOING, WHAT THOSE WHO ARE SUPPORTING IT ARE DOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO PLAY, THEN LET’S GET IN THE FIELD, LET’S GET IN THE ARENA AND LET’S DO THIS. AND I SUPPORT THAT. >> SPEAKING OF A SENSE OF HUMOR, YOUR BOOK IS VERY FUNNY, WHICH I THINK HELPS A LOT GIVEN THAT THERE’S A LOT OF DIFFICULT MATERIAL. YEAH, I’M GOING TO READ SOMETHING WHERE I HAVE TO BLEEP MYSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF READING IT OUT LOUD. SORT OF. THIS IS THE PART WHEN TRUMP TOLD AN AUDIENCE, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLACK JOURNALISTS TOLD THEM THAT YOU HAPPEN TO TURN BLACK AND THAT YOU NOW WANTED TO BE KNOWN AS BLACK. YOU SAY ON THE PLANE THAT DAY, WHEN I FIRST HEARD ABOUT TRUMP’S REMARK, WE PATCHED IN. BRIAN FALLON, YOUR SENIOR ADVISER, COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER, ON A CALL TO STRATEGIZE A RESPONSE. BRIAN WANTED ME TO PUNCH BACK WITH A BIG SPEECH ABOUT MY RACIAL IDENTITY, LIKE THE ONE OBAMA HAD GIVEN I WAS. SO I’LL JUST SAY I WAS SO THAT I DIDN’T HOLD BACK. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I WAS NOT ABOUT TO TAKE TRUMP’S BAIT. HE LIES ALL THE TIME. I TOLD BRIAN HE THROWS OUT OUTRAGEOUS STATEMENTS TO DISTRACT FROM THE REAL ISSUES. QUOTE TODAY HE WANTS ME TO PROVE MY RACE. WHAT NEXT? HE’LL SAY I’M NOT A WOMAN AND I NEED TO SHOW MY VAGINA. I DON’T EVEN KNOW IF I CAN SAY THAT. BRIAN, ON THE OTHER END OF THE PHONE FELL SILENT. I IMAGINED THE DEEP CRIMSON OF HIS BLUSH. ALL RIGHT. SO FIRST OF ALL, YOU MADE ME SAY IT. >> THAT REALLY HAPPENED. >> YES, BUT. HOW DO HOW DO YOU DECIDE? I MEAN, IN THE MOMENT, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT’S SO RIDICULOUS? IT’S FUNNY. HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHEN TO NOT TAKE THE BAIT AND STAY OFF THE TERMS THAT HE’S TRYING TO SET FOR THE DEBATE AND WHEN TO PUNCH BACK? WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THAT IN THE IN THE PROCESS OF GOING UP AGAINST HIM? >> SO, YOU KNOW, I ALSO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST TWO WEEKS THAT I WAS THE TOP OF THE TICKET, WE HAD NO POLLING, NO POLLING HAD BEEN DONE ON ME. SO IT WAS MY GUT. YEAH. AND AND SO I CAME UP WITH THIS SPEECH THAT ACTUALLY WAS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I WAS A PROSECUTOR. I DEALT WITH PEOPLE WHO ENGAGED IN SEXUAL ABUSE. I WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL. I TOOK ON PEOPLE WHO WHO ENGAGED IN FRAUD ON AND ON AND ON. AND SO I KNOW HIS TYPE. >> I REMEMBER THIS LINE. YEAH. >> AND BECAUSE THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE’S SOMETHING ABOUT IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE THAT THAT PHRASE, I KNOW HIS TYPE THAT DOES A LOT OF WORK FOR YOU BECAUSE IT’S SOMETHING WE ALL RELATE TO, WHETHER IT WAS THAT BOSS, IT WAS THAT PERSON, WHATEVER. I KNOW HIS TYPE. AND SO THE CHARACTER THAT I KNEW I WAS RUNNING AGAINST IS SOMEONE BECAUSE HE HAS SHOWN IT ALSO. I MEAN, HE DID IT WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA. HE DID IT WITH SECRETARY CLINTON. HE THROWS THIS STUFF OUT THAT HE THINKS WILL BE AN INDIVIDUAL’S WEAKNESS OR ACHILLES HEEL, WITH THE INTENT TO DISTRACT FROM THE FACT THAT, AS IT WAS IN THIS CAMPAIGN, HE HAD NO PLAN FOR ACTUALLY BRINGING DOWN COSTS AND PRICES FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. HE HAD VERY FEW PLANS FOR WHAT HE WOULD ACTUALLY DO. THAT WAS ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND NOT ABOUT AN EXECUTION OF HIS VENGEANCE ON HIS ENEMIES. AND I WASN’T ABOUT TO FALL FOR THAT BAIT. AND THE STAKES WERE TOO HIGH. THE STAKES WERE TOO HIGH. YOU CAN’T GET IN THE GUTTER WITH THAT GUY, BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY THAT HE DISTRACTS FROM THE FACT THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT NOW, HE PROMISED THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR HIM THAT ON DAY ONE HE’D BRING DOWN PRICES. AND I DO BELIEVE, RACHEL, THAT’S ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR HIM ELECTED HIM BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED HE WOULD DO IT. HE LIED. WE’RE NOW IN A POSITION WHERE UNEMPLOYMENT IS UP, INFLATION IS UP, THE COST OF GROCERIES IS UP. SO, YOU KNOW, AS, AS THE, THE, THE FOLKS USED TO SAY, DON’T FALL FOR THE OKEY DOKE. JUST DON’T. >> ALL RIGHT. LOTS MORE TO ASK YOU. WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS. HER NEW BOOK IS CALLED 107 DAYS. IT COMES OUT TOMORROW. IT’S GOING TO BE A TO BUY YOUR TICKETS TODAY. >> WE’RE HERE LIVE WITH FORMER VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS, HER NEW BOOK ABOUT HER 2024 RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY IS CALLED 107 DAYS. IT’S OUT TOMORROW. MADAM VICE PRESIDENT, I HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE I THINK THE POINT, THE PART OF YOUR BOOK THAT HAS PEOPLE MOST UPSET THUS FAR, WHICH IS SOME OF YOUR WRITING ABOUT THE DECISION AROUND THE THE PRESIDENT ABANDONING HIS REELECTION CAMPAIGN. THE TIMING THERE AND HOW IT WAS HANDLED. YOU SAY IN PART, PAGE 46, IT’S JOE AND JILL’S DECISION. WE ALL SAID THAT LIKE A MANTRA, AS IF WE’D ALL BEEN HYPNOTIZED. WAS IT GRACE OR WAS IT RECKLESSNESS? IN RETROSPECT, I THINK IT WAS RECKLESSNESS. THE STAKES WERE SIMPLY TOO HIGH. THIS WASN’T A CHOICE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT TO AN INDIVIDUAL’S EGO AND INDIVIDUAL’S AMBITION. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THAN A PERSONAL DECISION. WHOSE DECISION SHOULD THAT HAVE BEEN? HOW SHOULD THAT DECISION HAVE BEEN MADE? >> SO WHEN I WRITE THIS, IT’S BECAUSE I REALIZE THAT I HAVE AND HAD A CERTAIN RESPONSIBILITY THAT I SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THROUGH ON. WHICH IS. AND SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE RECKLESSNESS AS MUCH AS ANYTHING, I’M TALKING ABOUT MYSELF. THERE WAS SO MUCH AS WE KNOW AT STAKE. AND AS I WRITE, YOU KNOW, THE THE WHERE MY HEAD WAS AT AT THE TIME IS THAT IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY IT WOULD COME OFF AS BEING COMPLETELY SELF-SERVING. >> IF YOU SAID TO PRESIDENT BIDEN THAT YOU DID NOT THINK HE SHOULD RUN AGAIN. >> YEAH. OR EVEN THAT HE SHOULD QUESTION WHETHER IT’S A GOOD IDEA. BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW. ONE OF THE REASONS I WROTE THIS BOOK, RACHEL, IS THERE ARE ACTUALLY A NUMBER OF REASONS. ONE IS ONE THAT IT IS UNPRECEDENTED. RIGHT. TO YOUR POINT OF WHAT YOU SAID IN YOUR OPENING, WE HAD A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES RUNNING FOR REELECTION THREE AND A HALF MONTHS FROM THE ELECTION, DECIDES NOT TO RUN. THE SITTING VICE PRESIDENT ENTERS THE RACE AGAINST A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, WHO’S BEEN RUNNING FOR TEN YEARS WITH 107 DAYS TO GO. AND IT ENDED UP BEING THE CLOSEST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN THE 21ST CENTURY. AND THERE WAS SO MUCH ABOUT THOSE 107 DAYS THAT FOR ME, AND THIS IS REALLY A BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK AT THOSE 107 DAYS, WAS ABOUT SEEING PEOPLE WHO SEEMINGLY HAD NOTHING IN COMMON COMING TOGETHER BY THE THOUSANDS WITH AN A LEVEL OF OPTIMISM AND, DARE I SAY, JOY, ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES FOR AMERICA. AND AND I HOPE TO REMIND PEOPLE ABOUT THAT LIGHT THAT, THAT PEOPLE BROUGHT TO IT, AND TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THAT LIGHT IS STILL THERE. AND WE CAN’T LET THAT BE EXTINGUISHED BY AN ELECTION OR THE INDIVIDUAL WHO’S IN THE OFFICE RIGHT NOW. BECAUSE TO TO THE POINT OF ALL THOSE FOLKS WHO GOT OUT AND PROTEST ABOUT THE SUSPENSION. >> AND ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE. >> THAT PEOPLE HAVE. >> PROTESTED, RIGHT, IN THE VARIETY OF WAYS, WHETHER IT BE GOING TO A PROTEST OR BEING, YOU KNOW, WITH THEIR POCKETBOOK OR GETTING ENGAGED IN LOCAL AND STATE AND FEDERAL ELECTIONS, THEY’LL MAKE A DIFFERENCE. AND THEY’VE MADE A DIFFERENCE. AND I GUESS THE LAST POINT IS THAT WE’VE GOT TO REALLY REMEMBER THAT THIS PERSON WHO’S IN THE WHITE HOUSE PROMISED A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO SUPPORTED HIM AND VOTED FOR HIM, THAT HE WOULD DO ONE THING, WHICH IS BRING DOWN COSTS AND PRICES, AND HE LIED TO THEM. AND WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THE NEXT SERIES OF ELECTIONS. THE MIDTERMS ARE AROUND THE CORNER THAT IT’S NOT JUST ABOUT HIM BY HIMSELF. THERE WERE OERS AROUND HIM WHO PERPETUATED THAT SAME PROMISE AND HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THROUGH. THEY’RE ABOUT TO GO INTO NEGOTIATIONS AROUND THE CONTINUING RESOLUTION, THE BUDGET. AND I KNOW THAT THAT LEADER SCHUMER AND JEFFRIES ARE GOING TO MEET WITH THE PRESIDENT, I THINK, IN THE OVAL OFFICE. AND GOOD FOR THEM TO GO THERE AND ASK DONALD TRUMP, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, TO JUSTIFY WHY HE IS PROPOSING TO CUT MEDICAID, WHY HE IS WILLING TO SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE SAKE OF PUTTING ON THE BACKS OF WORKING PEOPLE THE TAX CUT HE GAVE TO THE RICHEST PEOPLE IN AMERICA. >> DO YOU THINK THAT DEMOCRATS SHOULD VOTE TO ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO SHUT DOWN IN ORDER TO TRY TO EXTRACT CONCESSIONS FROM TRUMP ON THESE MATTERS? >> IT WON’T BE THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE SHUTTING IT DOWN. IT WILL BE THE REPUBLICANS. THE DEMOCRATS ARE DOING THE JOB THAT ANY ELECTED LEADER SHOULD DO, WHICH IS TO SAY, WE’RE NOT GOING TO DO THE BIDDING OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AT THE AT AT, AT AT THE SACRIFICE OF OUR CONSTITUENTS HEALTH CARE. NEGOTIATE. >> YOU DESCRIBE IN THE BOOK SOMETHING THAT YOU CALLED A SECRET PROJECT THAT YOU RAN AS VICE PRESIDENT, THAT YOU CALLED THE STARS PROJECT, IDENTIFYING UP AND COMING TALENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. YOU’D MEET WITH THEM, ASK THEM ABOUT THEIR INTERESTS. YOU SAY THAT MORE THAN ONE OF THEM SAID THEY FELT LIKE THEY WERE BEING CALLED TO THE PRINCIPAL’S OFFICE WHEN YOU ASKED THEM TO COME IN, BUT THIS, THE THE FOLKS WHO YOU MET WITH IN THIS WAY INCLUDE SOME OF THE PEOPLE YOU SEE VERY FREQUENTLY NOW ON, ON, ON MSNBC, JASMINE CROCKETT, ANGELA ALSOBROOKS, MAXWELL FROST, ROBERT GARCIA, ROBERT GARCIA, MORE ARGUABLY THE FASTEST RISING STAR RIGHT NOW IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS IS ZORAN MAMDANI, WHO IS GOING TO BE ELECTED MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY AND PROBABLY IN A LANDSLIDE IF THE POLLS ARE ANYTHING TO GO BY. LOTS OF MAINLINE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN VERY SHY ABOUT HIS CANDIDACY. THEY SEEM SOMEWHAT FLUMMOXED BY HIS SUCCESS AS A SORT OF TALENT SPOTTER IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIM AND HIS CANDIDACY, AND WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MAINLINE DEMOCRATIC SHYNESS AND AGITATION ABOUT THE PROSPECT THAT HE’S GOING TO WIN? >> LOOK, AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED, HE’S THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE AND HE SHOULD BE SUPPORTED. DO YOU. >> DO YOU ENDORSE HIS CANDIDACY? >> I SUPPORT THE DEMOCRAT IN THE IN THE RACE. SURE. BUT LET ME JUST SAY THIS. HE’S NOT THE ONLY STAR I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW, HE’S IN NEW YORK. AND I KNOW NEW YORKERS THINK THEY’RE THE CENTER OF THE WORLD. AND HERE WE ARE IN NEW YORK HAVING THIS INTERVIEW. >> IT IS THE. >> BIGGEST CITY. >> IN. >> THE COUNTRY. >> NEW YORK, AS. >> THE SAYING GOES, I REALLY DO. BUT I MEAN, THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE BARBARA DRUMMOND IN MOBILE, ALABAMA, HELENA MORENO IN NEW ORLEANS. THEY’RE ALL RUNNING FOR MAYOR, TOO, AND THEY ARE STARS. SO I HOPE THAT WE DON’T. SO OVERINDEX ON NEW YORK CITY THAT WE LOSE SIGHT OF THE STARS THROUGHOUT OUR COUNTRY WHO ARE RIGHT NOW RUNNING FOR MAYOR AND MANY OTHER OFFICES, GOVERNOR AND AND SO ON. SO THAT’S WHERE I AM. WE GOT A BIG TENT AND WE GOT A LOT OF STARS. >> 2026 IS IS SHAPING UP TO BE AN ELECTION THAT IS GOING TO BE FILLED WITH DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES, THOUGH, AND A LOT OF MAINLINE DEMOCRATS IN THEIR 70S AND 80S ARE GOING TO BE FACING CHALLENGERS IN THEIR 30S. DO YOU THINK DEMOCRATS ARE AT ALL JUSTIFIED IN THEIR FRUSTRATION WITH THERE BEING SO MANY OLDER DEMOCRATS IN ELECTED OFFICE? DO YOU THINK IT IS TIME FOR THE OLDEST DEMOCRATS IN ELECTED OFFICE TO BE THINKING KIND OF WHOLESALE AS A CATEGORY ABOUT THE NEED TO RETIRE AND MOVE ON FROM OFFICE? >> YOU KNOW, I WOULDN’T OVER GENERALIZE ON THAT, MEANING THAT THERE ARE SOME DEMOCRATS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, OLDER IN AGE, BUT VERY YOUNG IN TERMS OF HOW THEY ARE THINKING AND VERY BOLD IN TERMS OF HOW THEY’RE THINKING. I THINK THAT EVERY ONE OF THE CANDIDATES IS GOING TO BE JUDGED BASED ON WHETHER THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A PLAN, WHETHER THEY SEE THE PEOPLE OR ARE THEY LISTENING TO THEM, WHETHER THEY THEY OFFER SOMETHING THAT FEELS DYNAMIC AND BOLD, ESPECIALLY AT THIS MOMENT, WHETHER THEY HAVE THE FIGHT IN THEM TO FIGHT WHAT WE KNOW TO BE WRONG, BUT ALSO THE FIGHT TO FIGHT FOR SOMETHING. I THINK THAT’S HOW THEY’RE GOING TO BE JUDGED. I DON’T KNOW THAT THE VOTERS ARE GOING TO JUDGE STRICTLY ON SOMEBODY’S AGE. >> I HAVE MUCH MORE TO ASK YOU. >> OKAY. >> I’M HERE. >> THAT’S MADAM VICE PRESIDENT. THE BOOK IS CALLED 107 DAYS. IT >> THAT’S (800) 990-3564. >> CALL NOW. >> WE’RE BACK WITH FORMER VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS, HER NEW BOOK ABOUT HER 107 DAY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, THE SHORTEST PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IN MODERN HISTORY. FOR ALL THE OBVIOUS REASONS, THAT BOOK COMES OUT TONIGHT AT MIDNIGHT. VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT’S GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN THE NEWS WE’VE HAD IN THE LAST FEW DAYS, TWO DEVELOPMENTS FROM THE PRESIDENT THAT ARE THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT YOU WERE WARNING ABOUT. BUT NOW WE’VE GOT THEM AND WE HAVE TO DECIDE HOW TO CONTEND WITH THEM. ONE IS THE PRESIDENT DIRECTLY ORDERING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO BRING CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST PEOPLE HE PERCEIVES TO BE HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES, INCLUDING FIRING PROSECUTORS WHO TOLD THE ADMINISTRATION THERE WAS NOT AN EVIDENTIARY PREDICATE TO BRING THOSE CHARGES. WE’VE ALSO NOW, IN AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TODAY, HAVING WE’VE GOT THE PRESIDENT DESCRIBING ANTIFA, THE ANTI-FASCIST, IT’S NOT EVEN REALLY A MOVEMENT. THE ANTI-FASCIST TACTICS OF A PORTION OF THE PROTEST MOVEMENT AS A DOMESTIC TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THOSE THINGS? WHAT DO YOU THINK THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE IS TO THINGS LIKE THAT? >> WELL, IN NORMAL TIMES, WE SHOULD AND COULD EXPECT THAT OUR COURTS WOULD STEP IN WHEN. WHEN ASKED TO DECLARE THE LEGALITY OR ILLEGALITY OF OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, CIVICS 101, WE ALL KNOW WE DESIGNED OUR DEMOCRACY THROUGH THREE CO-EQUAL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT THE EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE, AND THE AND THE COURTS, THE JUDICIAL. AND I WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS STILL SOMETHING THAT IS STANDING, CERTAINLY AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE VARIOUS COURTS HAVE ACTUALLY PROVIDED THE GUARDRAILS AGAINST HIS ABUSE OF POWER, AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP’S ABUSE OF POWER. THE LOWER COURTS HAVE BEEN MORE INCLINED TO STEP UP. BUT MY FEAR IS THAT AS SOME OF THOSE CASES REACH THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT, THAT WE CAN’T NECESSARILY COUNT ON PRECEDENT TO DICTATE HOW THEY WILL RULE ON THE PRESIDENT’S POWER. AND AGAIN, RACHEL, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS DURING THOSE 107 DAYS, BECAUSE REMEMBER, THE COURT BEFORE THE ELECTION BASICALLY SAID THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WOULD BE IMMUNE FROM WHATEVER HE DID IN OFFICE. SO HE WALKED IN TO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH WHAT HE THINKS IS A BLANK CHECK. >> AND SPECIFICALLY ON THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. THAT IMMUNITY RULING EFFECTIVELY TOLD HIM HE CAN DIRECT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS, WHICH HE IS NOW DOING ON ONLINE, TELLING THEM TO BRING BASELESS PROSECUTIONS. >> BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED THIS WEEK AND EVERY WEEK WE SHOULD TAKE NOTE WHEN THEY DO. BUT ONE AGAIN, WE’VE TALKED ABOUT THE RESPONSE TO THE KIMMEL SUSPENSION, BUT THE OTHER IS THAT U.S. ATTORNEY WHO WAS APPOINTED BY THE PRESIDENT, IS A REPUBLICAN AND SAID, I’M NOT DOING IT. AND AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I KNOW, WHETHER PEOPLE LIKE IT OR NOT, IS PROSECUTORS FOR THE MOST PART, ESPECIALLY IF THEY’VE BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE, ARE APOLITICAL AND TAKE SERIOUSLY THEIR OATH TO TO DO JUSTICE WITHOUT FEAR OR FAVOR AND TO DO WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO BASED ON THE FACTS AND THE LAW. AND WE HAVE SEEN THIS WEEK EVIDENCE OF SOMEONE WHO I’M SURE DIDN’T VOTE FOR ME. AND WE MAY DISAGREE ON A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER STUFF, BUT HE HAD THE COURAGE TO STAND UP AND SAY HE’S GOING TO FOLLOW HIS OATH AND DO WHAT IS ETHICALLY RIGHT. SO LET’S TAKE HEART AND HOPE THAT OTHERS WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WILL SEE THAT THAT IS, YOU KNOW, HAVE A HAVE A SOMETHING THAT STEERS THEIR CONSCIENCE. BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN PART LET’S NOT ALSO BE DISTRACTED BY THE FACT THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE THE CAREER PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT THEN TRUMP IS APPOINTING PEOPLE TO THESE POSITIONS WHO HAVE NO EXPERIENCE AS A PROSECUTOR, AND THE CLOSEST THEY HAVE TO IT IS THEIR EXPERIENCE DEFENDING HIM AGAINST CRIMES, AND ARE NOW SITTING BEHIND THE DESK MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT WHO SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH WHAT. SO IT IS A SCARY TIME. I DON’T MEAN TO SUGGEST OTHERWISE, BUT THERE ARE THESE MOMENTS THAT WE SHOULD ALSO TAKE NOTE OF. >> YES, AND THERE HAVE BEEN TO THAT POINT, THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE TRUMP APPOINTED U.S. ATTORNEYS WHO HAVE RESIGNED OR LEFT OFFICE. >> THEY HAVE. YES THEY. >> HAVE. >> YES THEY HAVE. >> ON. LET ME ASK YOU A POLITICS QUESTION. I MENTIONED IN THE INTRO TONIGHT THAT YOU SAY IN THE BOOK REALLY BLUNTLY THAT YOUR PERSONAL FIRST CHOICE FOR YOUR RUNNING MATE WOULD HAVE BEEN PETE BUTTIGIEG, AND YOU PRAISED HIM EFFUSIVELY. YOU SAY HE WOULD HAVE BEEN AN IDEAL PARTNER IF I WERE A STRAIGHT MAN. AND YOU SAY EFFECTIVELY THAT DEMOGRAPHICALLY IT WAS. IT WAS TOO MUCH TO ASK OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO ASK THEM TO ELECT YOU WITH HIM AS YOUR RUNNING MATE. I WONDER IF HIS REACTION TO THAT, SINCE THIS PART OF THE BOOK HAS COME OUT. IF YOU’VE HAD ANY REFLECTION ON THAT OR. I GUESS WHAT, I GUESS I’D ASK YOU TO JUST ELABORATE ON THAT A LITTLE BIT. IT’S HARD TO HEAR. YEAH. WITH YOU RUNNING, AS YOU KNOW, YOU’RE THE FIRST WOMAN ELECTED VICE PRESIDENT. YOU’RE A BLACK WOMAN AND A SOUTH ASIAN WOMAN ELECTED TO THAT HIGH OFFICE, VERY NEARLY ELECTED PRESIDENT TO SAY THAT HE COULDN’T BE ON THE TICKET EFFECTIVELY BECAUSE HE WAS GAY. IT’S HARD TO HEAR. >> NO, NO, NO, THAT’S NOT WHAT I SAID. THAT THAT’S THAT HE COULDN’T BE ON THE TICKET BECAUSE HE IS GAY. MY POINT IS, AS I WRITE IN THE BOOK, IS THAT I WAS CLEAR THAT IN 107 DAYS, IN ONE OF THE MOST HOTLY CONTESTED ELECTIONS FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST SOMEONE LIKE DONALD TRUMP, WHO KNOWS NO FLOOR TO BE A BLACK WOMAN RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND AS A VICE PRESIDENTIAL RUNNING MATE, A GAY MAN. WITH THE STAKES BEING SO HIGH, IT MADE ME VERY SAD. BUT I ALSO REALIZED IT WOULD BE A REAL RISK. NO MATTER HOW. YOU KNOW, I’VE BEEN AN ADVOCATE AND AN ALLY OF OF THE LGBT COMMUNITY MY ENTIRE LIFE. SO IT WASN’T ABOUT IT WASN’T ABOUT. YEAH, RIGHT. SO IT WASN’T ABOUT ANY ANY PREJUDICE ON MY PART, BUT THAT WE HAD SUCH A SHORT WE HAD SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. AND THE STAKES WERE SO HIGH. I THINK PETE IS A PHENOMENAL, PHENOMENAL PUBLIC SERVANT. AND I THINK AMERICA IS AND WOULD BE READY FOR THAT. BUT AT WHEN I HAD TO MAKE THAT DECISION WITH TWO WEEKS TO GO. YOU KNOW, AND MAYBE I WAS BEING TOO CAUTIOUS, YOU KNOW, I’LL LET OUR FRIENDS. WE SHOULD ALL TALK ABOUT THAT. MAYBE I WAS, BUT THAT’S THE DECISION I MADE. AND I’M AND I, AS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE BOOK AND BEING VERY CANDID ABOUT THAT. YEAH. WITH A GREAT DEAL OF SADNESS ABOUT ALSO THE FACT THAT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A RISK. >> WELL, YOU CONSIDER RUNNING IN 2028. >> THAT’S NOT MY FOCUS RIGHT NOW. I KNOW IT’S NOT MY FOCUS AT ALL. I KNOW IT REALLY ISN’T. >> I’M. >> YOU KNOW, I’M I’M JUST. >> GOING TO. YEAH. >> WELL, LET ME I KNOW YOU’RE NOT CONSIDERING IT NOW, BUT ARE YOU ARE YOU SAYING WHEN YOU DECIDE YOU’RE NOT GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA? >> CORRECT. >> WERE YOU SAYING YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO RUN FOR ANYTHING EVER AGAIN? OR WERE YOU JUST SAYING, I’M NOT GOING TO RUN FOR THAT OFFICE RIGHT NOW? >> THAT WAS THE DECISION BEFORE ME. AND I MADE THE DECISION NOT TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA. BY THE WAY, THERE ARE A LOT OF GREAT CANDIDATES RUNNING, AND AND I LOVE MY STATE, AND WE WANT SOMEBODY TO DEFINITELY FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF GAVIN IN TERMS OF STANDING UP AND UNDERSTANDING THE POWER THAT CALIFORNIA HAS TO, TO STAND UP TO WHAT WE’RE SAYING IN DC. >> AS POLITIC AS YOU ARE BEING IN THOSE REMARKS, YOU ARE BEAUTIFULLY IMPOLITIC IN THIS BOOK IN A WAY THAT MAKES IT HONEST. AND, AS I SAID, CANDID, FUN TO READ AND I THINK REALLY IMPORTANT. I THINK IT IS BLUNT AND TRUE, AND I COMMEND YOU FOR WRITING IT AND FOR BEING WILLING TO GO OUT THERE AND DEFEND IT AND TALK ABOUT IT IN THESE BLUNT TERMS AT A TIME. WE NEED SOME REAL STRAIGHT TALK. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU RACHEL. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. THE BOOK IS CALLED 107 DAYS. IT IS COMPELLING AND FUNNY AND A LITTLE DISHY. AND IT COMES OUT TOMORROW. FORMER VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS IS GOING TO BE DOING 15 CITY BOOK TOURS. IF YOU DON’T HAVE TICKETS YET ALREADY, YOU SHOULD MAKE TICKETS, SHOULD MAKE SURE TO GET TICKETS TO >> SLIDE INTO STYLE. >> NOW WITH 15% OFF AT JACK TV. >> ALL RIGHT, THAT’S GOING TO DO IT FOR ME FOR NOW. NOW IT’S TIME FOR THE LAST WORD WITH THE GREAT LAWRENCE O’DONNELL. GOOD EVENING LAWRENCE. >> GOOD EVENING RACHEL. AND THAT’S NOT GOING TO DO IT FOR YOU RIGHT NOW. YOU JUST HAD THE BIGGEST INTERVIEW OF THE YEAR SO FAR ON MSNBC. SO. OKAY, TELL US EVERYTHING THAT YOU DISCUSSED DURING THE COMMERCIAL BREAKS. >> I WILL SAY I, I AM AN AWKWARD PERSON WHO DOESN’T GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE VERY WELL, WRIT LARGE, JUST AS A GENERAL THING ABOUT ME. I’M A HERMIT. I’M A I’M A I’M A PINEAPPLE WHO LIVES UNDER THE SEA. BUT I, I GET ALONG REALLY WELL WITH VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IN THE SENSE THAT I FIND HER EASY TO TALK TO. AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WHEN WE’RE OFF CAMERA, LIKE WHEN WE’RE IN THE COMMERCIAL BREAKS, THE CONVERSATION KIND OF JUST KEPT GOING THE WAY THAT IT WAS ON CAMERA. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WHAT SHE WAS SAYING ABOUT TRUMP NOT BRINGING DOWN PRICES, AND THE ISSUE ABOUT HEALTH PREMIUMS ABOUT TO GO UP AND REPUBLICANS NOT HAVING ANY PLANS TO GO ALONG WITH TRUMP NOT HAVING ANY PLANS, AND DEMOCRATS NEEDING TO BE ABLE TO ARTICULATE THAT AND BUILD UP THEIR STARS MORE THAN THEY DO, AND THAT THERE’S SO MUCH GOOD TALENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. SO IT WASN’T IT WASN’T ANYTHING JUICIER THAN WHAT YOU GOT ON THE AIR. BUT SHE’S REALLY FIRED UP AND READY TO GO. I WILL SAY THAT. >> SO I. >> HAVEN’T READ THE BOOK. AND SO THAT PASSAGE THAT YOU MENTIONED, THAT HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF CONTROVERSIAL COVERAGE, WHERE SHE TALKS ABOUT JOE BIDEN MAKING THE DECISION TO TO RUN FOR A SECOND TERM AND THEN IT BEING UP TO HIM IN THE END TO DECIDE NOT TO. AND SHE USES THE WORD RECKLESSNESS IN THAT PASSAGE. >> AND AND TONIGHT. >> IN DISCUSSIONS WITH YOU, SHE INCLUDES HERSELF IN THAT RECKLESSNESS THAT SHE’S DESCRIBING. DOES THAT TRACK WITH THE. >> TEXT OF THE BOOK? >> YES IT DOES. I MEAN, WHAT SHE SAYS IS SHE EXPRESSES REGRET FOR NOT HAVING DONE MORE, I THINK, TO HELP THE WHITE HOUSE ARRIVE AT THE RIGHT DECISION ABOUT PRESIDENT BIDEN’S REELECTION CAMPAIGN. BUT SHE ALSO EXPLAINS WHY, IN THE MOMENT AND IN SITU, SHE DIDN’T FEEL LIKE SHE COULD, SHE SHE KIND OF MAKES THE CASE LIKE ME, OF ALL PEOPLE. I’M THE ONE PERSON WHO COULDN’T SAY, STEP ASIDE, OLD GUY. I’M. I NEED TO BE THE ONE RUNNING INSTEAD OF YOU. BUT SHE’S DEFINITELY FRUSTRATED WITH THE WAY THAT THE PRESIDENT WAY THE WAYS DECISIONS WERE MADE AROUND THE PRESIDENT. SHE DOESN’T REALLY CRITICIZE PRESIDENT BIDEN HIMSELF. SHE CRITICIZES THE TEAM AROUND HIM. BUT LAWRENCE, NOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOK, HAVE YOU READ THE PART THAT’S ABOUT, YOU? >> NO, I HAVE NOT. >> DO YOU KNOW THIS ONE PART? CAN I READ IT TO YOU? >> I GO AHEAD. >> OKAY. IT’S PAGE 22. THE MYTHOLOGY OF AMERICA SAYS ANYONE CAN GROW UP TO BE PRESIDENT, BUT MOST PEOPLE DON’T THINK THAT’S REALLY POSSIBLE FOR THEM. DID I GROW UP AS A KID WITH A DREAM TO BE PRESIDENT? NO. MY MOTHER TOLD ME I COULD BE ANYTHING, AND I BELIEVED HER. BUT PRESIDENT WASN’T ON MY LIST. I WAS IN MY FIRST YEAR AS A SENATOR BEFORE IT CROSSED MY MIND. ODDLY, AS A RESULT OF A THROWAWAY REMARK, DOUG AND I WERE HOME IN LOS ANGELES FOR THE WEEKEND, HAVING BREAKFAST AT A POPULAR HANGOUT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WHEN LAWRENCE O’DONNELL WALKED IN. HE WANDERED UP TO OUR TABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES OF A SECOND TRUMP TERM. QUOTE. YOU SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT, HE SAID. I HONESTLY HAD NOT THOUGHT ABOUT IT UNTIL THAT MOMENT. THE IDEA TOOK ROOT IN MY IMAGINATION, AND AS A RESULT OF RUNNING AGAINST JOE FOR THE NOMINATION IN 2019, I WOUND UP AS HIS VP. YOU DID IT. YOU WERE THE ONE WHO FIRST PUT THE THOUGHT IN HER MIND TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT. >> SO SHE REMINDED ME OF THIS IN. >> THE MIDDLE OF HER. >> PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. >> HER FIRST CAMPAIGN, WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING AGAINST THAT DEMOCRATIC. PRIMARY FIELD. >> AND SHE’S. >> REMINDED ME OF IT A COUPLE OF TIMES SINCE THEN. SO HERE’S. >> NOW THAT IT’S. >> PUBLIC INFORMATION, IT WAS REALLY, REALLY, REALLY EARLY, REALLY EARLY BECAUSE. >> BECAUSE SHE WAS FIRST ELECTED IN 2016. SO THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN 2017. SO TRUMP JUST HAVING BEEN SWORN. YEAH. >> WELL SO. >> REMEMBER SO KAMALA. >> HARRIS IS ELECTED. >> TO THE UNITED. >> STATES SENATE. ON THE SAME NIGHT THAT DONALD. >> TRUMP WAS. >> ELECTED PRESIDENT. >> SO ALL DEMOCRATS GOING INTO THAT. >> ELECTION DAY. >> WHO MIGHT THINK ABOUT RUNNING. >> FOR PRESIDENT, ALL. >> THOUGHT THAT WAS EIGHT YEARS AWAY, BECAUSE HILLARY CLINTON’S GOING TO BE PRESIDENT FOR. THE NEXT FOUR YEARS. SHE’S GOING TO RUN FOR RE ELECTION. NO DEMOCRAT HAS A DECISION TO MAKE FOR ANOTHER 6 OR 7 YEARS. AT LEAST. THAT WAS THAT’S THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE THEY STARTED COUNTING VOTES ON. >> ELECTION DAY. >> SO I ACTUALLY SAW HER VERY, VERY SOON AFTER ELECTION. >> DAY. >> ON A SATURDAY MORNING. >> AT THAT RESTAURANT. >> THAT SHE’S TALKING ABOUT. >> AND I DIDN’T. >> JUST BARGE. IN TO HER BREAKFAST. >> SHE WAVED ME OVER. >> RACHEL, I WOULDN’T YOU KNOW ME. >> SHE DIDN’T. >> MAKE ME STAY. >> ON MY CREPE. SHE DIDN’T MAKE IT SOUND LIKE, YOU KNOW, LAURA’S ON HER SLINKED OVER TO US. >> HERE’S THE REALLY. >> HERE’S THE REALLY COOL. >> THING IN THAT ROOM. OKAY? AND THIS IS LOS. >> ANGELES. >> AND SHE’S JUST BEEN ELECTED SENATE. SHE HAS SUNGLASSES ON, AND SHE’S. >> AT THE COMMUNITY TABLE. >> BECAUSE SHE COULDN’T GET. >> A TABLE FOR TWO THE WAY LIKE I COULD. RIGHT. BECAUSE BECAUSE THEY KNOW ME. AND AND. >> I REALLY HAD THE. >> FEELING. >> BY THE WAY. >> THAT IN. >> THAT ROOM, EVEN THOUGH SHE’S JUST BEEN. ELECTED SENATOR AND. >> EVERYBODY IN THAT ROOM. >> VOTED FOR HER, VERY FEW PEOPLE IN. >> THAT ROOM HAD ANY IDEA WHO SHE WAS. >> LIKE, MAYBE NOBODY. AND AND IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE SUNGLASSES, BUT IT’S ALSO CALIFORNIA AND THEY’RE KIND OF DISTANT. RELATIONSHIP TO POLITICS. EVEN THOUGH THEY VOTE FOR PEOPLE. AND AND SO WHAT I KNEW WAS SHE WAS GOING TO BE UNDER VERY, VERY. INTENSE PRESSURE VERY QUICKLY ABOUT, ARE. >> YOU A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT? >> AND SHE’S IN A REALLY WEIRD POSITION. AND SO. >> WHAT I. >> SAID TO HER WAS. >> YOU HAVE TO. RUN AND. >> YOU HAVE TO RUN. BECAUSE THE OBAMA. >> LESSON IS IT’S NEVER TOO EARLY. YEAH. AND THE. >> BIDEN LESSON. >> IS THERE IS A SECOND PLACE YOU HAVE TO RUN. AND I LEFT IT AT THAT AND LEFT THEM TO. THEIR TO THEIR BREAKFAST. >> AND, YOU KNOW, JOE BIDEN BECAME VICE. PRESIDENT BY RUNNING. AGAINST BARACK OBAMA. >> FOR PRESIDENT. THAT IS. >> HOW PEOPLE HAVE. THE DEMOCRATS ESPECIALLY. HAVE BEEN PICKING THEIR. RUNNING MATES, WAS WAS SOMEONE. >> WHO RAN AGAINST THEM. >> AND SO. >> YOU KNOW, THERE. >> IS A SECOND PLACE. >> IN PRESIDENTIAL. >> CAMPAIGNS AND THAT IS THE VICE PRESIDENCY. AND SO. >> THAT I THINK. >> WAS BASED ON THE CALENDAR. >> WHEN THAT HAPPENED, I’M. PRETTY SURE THAT. >> WAS THE VERY FIRST TIME ANYONE. HAD SAID ANYTHING TO HER. >> ABOUT THAT. >> THAT’S THE WAY THAT SHE DESCRIBES IT AS YOU BEING THE FIRST PERSON TO ACTUALLY ARTICULATE IT TO HER. SO, I MEAN, SHE WAS A TWO TERM ATTORNEY GENERAL AT THAT POINT. SHE THE CAMPAIGN THAT SHE RAN TO BECOME THE ELECTED DA IN SAN FRANCISCO WAS THE MOST CINEMATIC FREAKING THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE. I MEAN, SHE’D BEEN THROUGH SOME REALLY INTERESTING CALIFORNIA POLITICAL WARS, BUT THE IDEA OF NOT JUST JOINING THE SENATE, BUT THEN YOU TELLING HER IMMEDIATELY, NO, NOW YOU’RE ON THE NATIONAL STAGE. KEEP GOING. DON’T STOP RISING TURNED OUT TO BE A FORMATIVE THING FOR HER. >> WELL, LISTEN, IF I DIDN’T SAY IT, OTHER PEOPLE WERE GOING TO SAY IT DOWN, DOWN THE LINE. I MEAN, I KNEW THAT IT WASN’T. IT WASN’T SOMETHING THAT. >> OH. >> I ONLY HEARD IT IN ONE PLACE. AND IT’S JUST IT’S JUST BECAUSE OF THE CALENDAR THAT I WAS LITERALLY THE FIRST PERSON TO SAY IT TO HER, I’M SURE. AND AND WHAT I WAS, WAS STRUCK BY IN ALL THOSE CAMPAIGNS THAT YOU MENTIONED, RACHEL, IS, YOU KNOW, HERE’S SOMEBODY WHO WON. EVERY CAMPAIGN THAT SHE RAN IN RIGHT UP TO THE UNITED STATES SENATE. YOU KNOW, IN HER FIRST SETBACK WAS IN THAT PRIMARY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. AND SO THIS SHE WAS A WINNER IN CALIFORNIA POLITICS, AS YOU KNOW, SHE WAS ON. >> THIS PROGRAM. >> FOR THE FIRST TIME WHEN SHE WAS SAN FRANCISCO DISTRICT ATTORNEY. AGAIN, WHEN SHE WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL. >> AND AND. >> I REMEMBER SOMEONE TELLING ME, YOU KNOW, BEFORE I EVER KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT HER, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE IN HOLLYWOOD TELLING ME ABOUT HER AND TALKING ABOUT HER. THIS WAS. THE BASICALLY BLACK POLITICAL HOLLYWOOD ALREADY KNEW ABOUT HER, AND. >> THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. >> HER AS AS THE TERM THEY WERE USING WAS THE THE FEMALE OBAMA, MEANING A BLACK WOMAN WHO COULD GO ALL THE WAY, WHO COULD GO AS FAR AS BARACK OBAMA. AND THEN THE FIRST TIME SOMEONE BROUGHT ME TO SEE HER SPEAK SOMEWHERE, I SAW THAT AND I THOUGHT. >> WELL. >> YEAH, SHE CAN ABSOLUTELY GO ALL THE WAY. >> LAWRENCE, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF I DON’T KNOW IF YOU SAW IT AS YOU WERE SITTING DOWN, BUT I ASKED HER AT THE VERY END, ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2028? YEAH. WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HER RESPONSE? >> WELL, THAT WAS THE STANDARD. YOU KNOW, A COMPUTER COULD HAVE DONE THAT RESPONSE. THAT’S SOMEBODY WHO HAS NOT. >> BUT CERTAINLY. SOMEONE WHO’S NOT. SHE HAS BODY LANGUAGE AND YOU KNOW. >> OH NO. BUT THAT’S THAT’S THAT’S THE ANSWER YOU GIVE WHEN YOU MIGHT AND YOU MIGHT NOT. YOU KNOW, SHE ABSOLUTELY MIGHT. THAT’S THE ANSWER THAT SAYS, IN EFFECT, I GUESS THE TRANSLATION FOR THAT IS I MIGHT THAT WOULD BE THE FAIR TRANSLATION OF THAT IN AMERICAN POLITICS. AND I’M SO GLAD YOU ASKED IT. IT WAS ONE IT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS AS I WAS SITTING THERE. AND IT’S THE ONLY THING, BY THE WAY, BECAUSE I NEVER IN YOUR INTERVIEWS, I’M ALWAYS JUST LIVING IN THE INTERVIEW. AND AS I WAS NOTICING THE MINUTES, THOUGH, AND I THOUGHT, IS RACHEL GOING TO ASK HER IF SHE’S GOING TO RUN? AND YOU DID. AND SO, SO THANKS FOR THAT. AND I’M SURE THERE’S GOING TO BE THAT’S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE HEADLINES THAT YOU CREATE CREATE BY THAT. BUT RACHEL AND BY THE WAY, THIS WAS I DON’T KNOW IF IT FELT THIS WAY TO YOU, BUT CERTAINLY FOR ME WATCHING IT, THIS WAS VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS AT HER BEST. YOU BROUGHT OUT THE BEST ABOUT HER, I THINK, IN THE WAY THAT SHE TOOK ON EVERY ONE OF THESE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASKED, THE WAY SHE GAVE EACH ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS A FAIR RESPONSE. SHE WASN’T AVOIDING ANYTHING, EXCEPT POSSIBLY THAT LAST ONE ABOUT, ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT? IT SEEMS VERY UNLIKELY THAT AT THIS POINT HER MIND WOULD BE MADE UP ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, HOW DO YOU MAKE YOUR MIND UP ABOUT THAT WITHOUT HAVING SOME INFRASTRUCTURE TO BASE IT ON? AND WE KNOW SHE DOESN’T HAVE ANY CAMPAIGN INFRASTRUCTURE RIGHT NOW. >> IT IS INTERESTING. SHE’S DOING THIS VERY BIG BOOK TOUR. SHE’S DOING THIS 15 CITY BOOK TOUR. SHE’S DOING SHE SAYS SHE’S STRUCTURING IT BASICALLY TO DO A LOT OF LISTENING. LIKE, I THINK, I THINK SHE’S SHE’S EAGER TO GET BACK OUT INTO THE COUNTRY AND START TALKING TO PEOPLE AND LISTENING TO PEOPLE AGAIN TO FIGURE OUT IF IT’S THE RIGHT THING TO DO IN PART, AND TO FIGURE OUT IF IT’S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. >> YEAH. AND YEAH, THIS IS THIS IS THE WAY TO DO IT. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE CAN REMEMBER THE COLIN POWELL BOOK TOUR, WHICH LITERALLY IN THE 1990S HAD PEOPLE LINED UP AROUND CORNERS AND EVERYONE THOUGHT, THIS IS THE BIGGEST BOOK TOUR WE’VE EVER SEEN. AND IT WAS BY FAR EVERYONE THOUGHT HE IS GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT. AND HE DIDN’T IN THE END. AND SO I THINK WE’LL KNOW WHEN AND IF SHE ANNOUNCES, I THINK IT MIGHT BE HARD TO TELL AT ANY POINT BEFORE THAT. BUT RACHEL, WHAT WHAT WHAT ELSE BESIDES PAIGE, WHAT IS IT, 22 ABOUT ME? WHY? WHAT ELSE DID YOU DISCOVER IN THE BOOK THAT I HAVEN’T READ THAT YOU DIDN’T HAVE TIME FOR IN THE HOUR? >> OH, THERE’S A LOT IN IT. I MEAN, THE STUFF THAT I’M REALLY FOCUSED ON, AS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, I’M NOT. I’M NOT THE WORLD’S GREATEST AUTHORITY ON DEMOCRATIC PARTY POLITICS. THERE’S DEFINITELY A LOT ON WHAT’S WHAT, HOW HOW THINGS WORK INSIDE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. DIFFERENT DEMOCRATIC PARTY, SORT OF CAPABILITIES AND INCAPACITIES, I WOULD SAY CERTAINLY SHE IS BORDERING ON CAUSTIC WHEN IT COMES TO DESCRIBING THE POLITICAL OPERATION AROUND PRESIDENT BIDEN. WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS STILL RUNNING FOR REELECTION. SHE SAYS THAT THE POLITICAL BRIEFINGS THAT WERE RUN FOR THE CAMPAIGN, I THINK THE ACTUAL PHRASE SHE USES IS MADE NO SENSE TO ME. SHE QUOTES ONE OF HER OWN STAFFERS DESCRIBING THEM AS A DOG AND PONY SHOW. SHE’S JUST CAUSTIC IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT THE POLITICAL OPERATION AROUND PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS SERVING HIM WELL. AND SO THAT’S INTERESTING STUFF. AND IT’S IMPORTANT. I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF RECKONING WITH WHAT WENT WRONG AND THE TIMING ON EVERYTHING. BUT I’M I’M REALLY ALSO VERY INTERESTED. I MEAN, SHE’S LIKE YOU SAID, SHE WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL IN CALIFORNIA POLITICS, BROUGHT A REALLY INTERESTING AND ACCOMPLISHED RESUME AND HISTORY IN POLITICS AND AS A PUBLIC SERVANT TO BEING A UNITED STATES SENATOR, WHICH IS WHAT SHE BROUGHT TO BEING A VICE PRESIDENT. AND THEREFORE, I’M KIND OF INTERESTED NOT JUST IN WHAT SHE DID BEFORE, BUT WHAT HER LEADERSHIP PRESCRIPTION IS NOW. AND THE OTHER THING ABOUT WHICH SHE IS UTTERLY CAUSTIC IS THE WAY INSTITUTIONS AND POWERFUL PEOPLE HAVE FAILED THE COUNTRY, NOT JUST SHE SAYS, TRUMP’S DOING WHAT WE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO DO AND WHAT SHE TOLD US HE WAS GOING TO DO. AND SHE’S RIGHT ABOUT THAT. WHAT HAS FAILED AND WHAT HAS BEEN A SURPRISE, ARE THE INSTITUTIONS IN OUR COUNTRY THAT WE EXPECTED MORE FROM. AND THAT DIAGNOSIS, I THINK, IS REALLY IMPORTANT. AND IT’S IMPORTANT NOT JUST AS LIKE A CAPTION FOR WHAT’S GOING ON. IT’S THE IT’S IT’S THE THE PRESCRIPTION FOR WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO GET US OUT OF THIS MESS. WE NEED BETTER INSTITUTIONS. WE NEED BETTER ELITES. WE NEED BETTER POWERFUL PEOPLE. AND EVEN IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION REACTS TO PROTESTS BY SENDING IN THE MARINES, DISNEY DOESN’T. AND THE OTHER INSTITUTIONS THAT WE’VE GOT THAT ARE FAILING THE LAW FIRMS DON’T, RIGHT? THE THE UNIVERSITIES DON’T. THE OTHER INSTITUTIONS THAT WE’VE GOT THAT ARE FAILING ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO PUBLIC PRESSURE AND POLITICAL PRESSURE. AND THEY OUGHT TO BE THEY OUGHT TO BE BEING SUBJECTED TO MORE OF IT BECAUSE WE NEED THEM. YOU CAN’T JUST DO IT WITHOUT THEM. WE NEED OUR INSTITUTIONS AND OUR ELITES TO BE NOT CAPITULATING. AND SO THAT’S THE PROJECT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO STAND UP FOR OUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. AND HER ARTICULATING IT THAT WAY IS, TO ME, JUST REALLY HELPFUL AND CLARIFYING AND SORT OF CUTS THROUGH A LOT OF THE DROSS THAT WE’RE OTHERWISE TALKING ABOUT TOO MUCH. >> HEY, RACHEL, YOU KNOW HOW WE HAVE THOSE DIGITAL CAMERAS, THE DIGITAL DIGITAL CLOCKS, RIGHT UNDER OUR CAMERA? I NORMALLY LOOK DOWN AND IT SAYS FOUR MINUTES AFTER THE HOUR WHEN WE’VE HAD A LONG CHAT, IT NOW SAYS 14. SO THAT’S A THAT’S A RECORD. BUT BUT BEFORE YOU GO, BEFORE YOU GO BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAVE TO GO, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE VERY FIRST THING YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR HOUR, WHICH IS YOUR NEW DOCUMENTARY ABOUT ANDREW YOUNG. I DIDN’T KNOW YOU WERE WORKING ON THAT. I’M FASCINATED BY ANDREW YOUNG. HE’S ONE OF THE REAL POLITICAL PIONEERS, AND HE HAD A PRETTY BIG CAREER BEFORE HE EVER GOT INTO POLITICS. WHEN WHEN WILL WE SEE IT’S ON THIS NETWORK ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. I THINK YOU SAID. >> IT IS. IT’S GOING TO BE. THANK YOU FOR ASKING. IT’S FRIDAY, OCTOBER 17TH. SO I HAVE THIS PRODUCTION COMPANY WHICH IS CALLED SURPRISE INSIDE. OUR FIRST DOCUMENTARY WAS THE ONE ABOUT LEV PARNAS FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE THAT PREMIERED TO A HUGE AUDIENCE HERE ON MSNBC. GOT NOMINATED FOR AN EMMY WAS SOMETHING I’M REALLY PROUD OF. THIS IS OUR SECOND DOCUMENTARY PROJECT, AND IT’S THE FIRST OF A COUPLE PROJECTS I’M GOING TO BE ROLLING OUT BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR, WHICH ARE BOTH, I THINK I THINK OF THEM AS LIKE MY HOMEWORK FOR WHAT I NEED TO GET SMARTER ABOUT AND WHAT I WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT, WHAT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND MORE DEEPLY ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO NEXT AS A COUNTRY. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE’VE GOT AS A COUNTRY IN THIS TIME OF NEED IS WE’VE GOT AN INHERITANCE FROM MORALLY UPSTANDING AND SUCCESSFUL MOVEMENTS LIKE THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, AND WE NEED TO LEARN FROM THEM, NOT JUST AS INSPIRATIONS. WE NEED TO LEARN FROM THEM IN TERMS OF HOW THEY ACTUALLY DID THE WORK TO GET DONE WHAT THEY GOT DONE. WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS NOT JUST TO BE IMPRESSED BY THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, BUT TO ACTUALLY BE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT AND DOING IT. AND FOR ALL, FOR ALL OF ITS DIFFICULTIES. AND THE STORY OF ANDREW YOUNG, THE REASON IT’S CALLED ANDREW YOUNG, THE DIRTY WORK IS IT’S ABOUT THE FREAKING DAY TO DAY DIRTY WORK AND HOW HARD IT IS TO MAKE THESE THINGS WORK. AND SO IT’S THE NUTS AND BOLTS, THE NITTY GRITTY SIDE OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. AS I SAID, IT’S THE FIRST OF A COUPLE OF PROJECTS ALONG THESE LINES THAT I’M GOING TO HAVE COMING OUT THIS YEAR. BUT THE FIRST ONE IS THIS DOCUMENTARY THAT COMES OUT FRIDAY, OCTOBER 17TH HERE ON MSNBC. THE ONLY WAY TO GET A SNEAK PREVIEW OF IT IS TO GO TO THE MSNBC LIVE EVENT ON SATURDAY, OCTOBER 11TH. WE’LL BE SHOWING SOME SCENES FOR IT, BUT THEN THE PREMIERE IS HERE ON OCTOBER 17TH. >> RACHEL, I LOVE THAT SHOT OF THE YOUNG ANDREW YOUNG THAT WE JUST HAD UP ON THE SCREEN THERE. RACHEL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

Rachel Maddow hosts former Vice President Kamala Harris, the 2024 Democratic nominee for president, on the eve of the publication of her new book, “107 Days,” to revisit some of the decisions and circumstances that shaped the 2024 election, and to discuss politics and activism in the second Trump term.

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