I have grown tired of the people on this sub ranting on how large the money transfers are between Wallonia and Flanders. I therefore found an article from the National Bank of Belgium. Based on this document, here are 3 important findings :

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1. “Flanders transfers 6 bn € to Wallonia each year” is essentially a narrative with a political agenda. Another valid narrative would be : “The ancient province of Brabant transfers 6 bn € to the rest of Belgian provinces each year”. Of course, this second narrative is much less appealing to Flemish nationalists (surprised).
2. The transfers between Flanders and Wallonia have reduced over time. Twenty years ago, Wallonia received from Flanders about 2 % of Belgium GDP. Now it is only 1.5 %.
3. When compared to other European regions, transfers between Flanders and Wallonia are modest. Wallonia receives from Flanders less money than the North of the Netherlands received from the other Dutch regions. Likewise, Flanders contributes about 4 times less than Ile de France region, and twice less than the North of Italy.

Source : [Interregional transfers via the federal government and social security](https://www.nbb.be/doc/ts/publications/economicreview/2021/ecorevii2021_h1.pdf)

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Basis for the first claim “In relation to population size, the territories of what used to be Brabant form the main basis. The net contribution thus represents € 3 000 per capita in Flemish Brabant, € 2 600 in Walloon Brabant and € 1 200 in Brussels. The rest of the country receives a redistribution from these three entities amounting to some € 6 billion via the federal budget, a similar figure to the contribution of Flanders to the interregional transfers. At the other end of the scale are the provinces of Liège and Hainaut, the latter being a net beneficiary receiving € 3 000 per inhabitant.” p24

Basis for the second claim : 1st chart p 22

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[Contributions have decreased over time](https://preview.redd.it/zkr4wgjqf7y81.png?width=1309&format=png&auto=webp&s=349d82a0108f1a3cde95dcc159342db311268c5c)

Basis for the third claim : 3rd chart p26

[At the EU level, transfers between Belgian regions are limited.](https://preview.redd.it/77tg8bjkf7y81.png?width=1204&format=png&auto=webp&s=ddc63fe8c4a6db68ff9959cfa25d32e05d75d00a)

EDIT : correction, the transfers account for 1.5% of *Belgium* GDP, not Wallonia. Sorry for the mistake.

32 comments

  1. ….and “even” if Flanders was really giving soooo much money to Wallonia, Flemish nationalist always fail to mention the South => North transfer that happened years ago, when Flanders’s economy was mainly due to farms and crops (as opposed to rich Wallonie with mines)

  3. Is this transfer thing just a thing in Belgium?

    In France Paris pays for the North, in US California and New York pay for the Louisiana, there are examples in every country.

    Why does Flanders seem the only one to make it a big deal?

  5. The argument of “it’s not really flanders, it’s actually brabant” is not as important as you’re making it out to be.

  6. I mean, we could stop having a government and everyone pays for itself. That’s how you end up when the rich part goes away. You can always further divide, until you’re all alone.

  7. Transfer things are still a thing because the transferring part is politically obstructed by the receiving part: Flemish people vote centre to right and get a left wing government because the PS gets more representatives than VB with more than 150.000 votes less (note: I don’t vote VB). When Flanders has a working percentage of more than 75% (18-65 y old) and Wallo-Brux has 66 and 62%, and the Flemish economy counts for more than 80% of the Belgian export, be sure the transfers in reality are very high (probably higher than NBB measurements). Also assuming that the expenditure in Wallo-Brux is too high (going in a rapid tempo to bankruptcy if the federal government doesn’t help funding their debts), the transfers at the moment are not sufficient. Als Flemish people we love the Bruxelles and Wallonia people, but we can’t exactly understand why the people there continue voting for conservative populist parties like PS, Ecolo and PTB: Wallonia is now one of less wealthy regions in Western-Europe, after decades of PS governments…

  9. Well, if Wallonia would stop being the economic death pit of Europe, the transfers would be more acceptable.

  10. Cause people are stupid and cant think critically. We live in an amazing country and have a lot in common with each other. Only the language is different but it has a charm. Im also tired of hearing wallonians are lazy and dont want to work. Worked for over 10 years with them and met atleast as much lazy flemish bums as wallonians. But the flemish just like to complain.

  11. It’s also the way people vote in Wallonia, they have no intention of ever becoming fiscally responsible. It’s like Peter Pan syndrome, refusing to grow up and get your shit together.

  12. 1. The transers are real, the main problem is that in belgium we have different levels to control both income and expenditures. So while the federal level taxes, the regional level spends making it impossible for a voter to influence both. You dont really have that in most other countries with transfers to our level.
    2. The transfers are still a significant amount of the , they also barely reduced anything of decades and there is really no reason to think they will ever stop.
    3. As said thats more or less applkes to oranges, limburg gets “transfers” as well, just about every mayor city does that as well but that isnt really the issue . The issue is accountability and control, neither are present in belgium due to it system of governance.

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    TO add: that 6-7 billion is a low estimate and doesnt include a couple of things (like intrest on the debt), the actual number is siginificantly higher. But again imho the issue isnt the transfer itself but that we simply live in a system where we have a join checking acount but little to no rules on how to spend money that money and little to no control over out partners. Thats leads to tensions when partners disgree on how to spend it. If everyone would contribute the same that wouldnt be an issue but when 2 put in significantly more then the third and that third has for decades ignored the other 2 on expenditure that leads to serious frictions.

  13. money trasfer sounds bad. But if it makes Waloenia a better place to live in with better education and less poverty it’s money well spend.

    Besides, the amount of money wasted on politicians and tax brakes for big companies is WAY worse anyway. Now that is something to complain about!

  14. Out of interest, is wealth in these places taken by the location of work or location of the taxpayer?

    A vast amount of people commute into Brussels for work, does the tax they pay count as Brussels because they do the work there? Or as wherever they live since they likely incur spend there (roads, schools, healthcare etc)

  15. I also think it is questionable that Flanders would be financially better off when independent, which is silently assumed by many people? We don’t know what would happen with the debt, Brussels, EU membership etc., but even when that all turns out in our favour it sounds like a costly business. I think it would rather turn to be a bit of a mini-Brexit, messy and expensive.

  16. Good, if the transfers are so insignificant, then you won’t have a problem with ending them tomorrow. Let’s do it, it doesn’t amount to anything anyway.

  17. “No taxation without representation”

    Flanders has to contribute to Wallonia, however Flemish people can’t even vote on Walloon parties. It is not only nationalists that don’t want to pay for Wallonia.

  18. I think you are making a very colored post here. Trying to make it work for your point of view by being selective etc. I think some points are correct:

    – regional transfers are normal, nothing wrong with it.
    – they exist between provinces as well
    – you don’t mention it, but I would like to add that there are reasons for having these differences. Eg Flanders has big harbors, Wallonia has no sea access.

    But – Although I certainly don’t consider myself a Flemish nationalist(I will be called one in this thread I know), I do think the reason the transfers cause frustration ( abused by populist parties off course) is that this is combined with a very different political view. The dominance of left / far left in wallonia and corruption prevents it from evolving. This lack of evolution is what causes frustration. Sure the vb people don’t think this far and just consider transfers only, which is short sided, but this post is not that much better.

    I know a few highly educated Walloons who see things evolving for the worse – or actually- the complete lack of evolution is what is slowly creating a disaster.

  19. It’s not about the transfers in itself, it’s all about solidarity.

    The ones yelling the hardest about the transfers to Wallonie are the same that yell about transfers from healthy to sick people, from white to colored people, from working to unemployed people or just in general for wealthy to poorer people.

    It’s just pure egoism. Once Flanders would be independent and we have their ‘perfect right conservative white republic’ then the people from Limburg would be the next one that get the blame for anything that will go wrong.

    And all because there will always be some group that restricts the upper class, that sponsors the nationalist parties, to get richer.

    It’s a trick as old as the world, let the middle class look down to the ones that have less so they won’t look up to the ones that have more.

  20. The biggest losses are not in the social security transfers but in the many administrative levels. The Flemish (and Walloon…) level was created 40 years ago and not one other level was abolished. People have been talking about abolishing the provinces and reducing the number of municipalities for so long. In each province there are still dozens of municipalities with less than 10,000 inhabitants. Meanwhile, another new level is now being created, the Transport Regions (vervoerregio’s), in the vague prospect that they will replace both the provinces and the intermunicipalities (intercommunales). Who believes these separatist people anymore?

  21. Flanders also has twice the population. It’s really not that fair to compare in the first place.

    Also when you look at gdp per capita, most money is made in Brussels anyway.

  25. Many areas, such as Catalonia, Northern Italy and Flanders complain of the lazy, incompetent southerners and protest the transfer of funds to these. Yet the same regions are often pro-European because they have an export-oriented economy and benefit from selling products and services throughout Europe. One of the foundations of Europe is that the richer countries and regions should provide development assistance to the poorer countries and regions. You cannot be a good European when want to have your cake an eat it too.

  26. Mwah, I still believe there are a lot of people in politics that really want to make a difference. But they get all the crap and also see that to get votes you just need to yell burkini or lazy walloons. I would lose my drive also in that case…

  27. And that’s not even bringing into account what happens in other countries.

    German would openly mock you if you complained about such tiny amounts going from 1 region to the other.

    Same with France.

    The entire issue is politicians showing people a limited view of the world, telling them they should be angry about it, and that it will be fixed if they vote for them.

    It’s all fake.

  28. I don’t think the point is the fact that there are transfers. In a sense, in an independent Flanders, the wealthiest province will also provide (or transfer) for the least wealthy province.

    I think their problem lies in the fact that they cannot vote for what is done with their money in a federal election. Flanders can only vote for Flemish parties and vice versa. Belgium is struggeling with a huge deficit and Wallonia has no guardian for how they are spending the money they don’t have. Normally you can vote someone in or out of office but someone is using your money and you have no say in how it is used.

  30. Every country has rich coties and poorer rural areas. They all have these money transfers. I also don’t see the issue

  31. It’s about accountability. In other countries where transfers occur, everything is meticulously kept in a publicly available spending chart, and the money actually serves the people and/or the economy. In Belgium the transfers are completely untransparent and serve to maintain a corrupted ancient political model, rather than serve the public good. That’s where the problem lies, not with the amount or the fact they exist.

  32. In your second point, you’re (unintentionally?) mixing up GDP’s. Reality is 2% to 1.5% of Belgian GDP, not Wallonian.

    1. GDP per Belgian region, according to Eurostat.Wallonian region had a GDP of 86 b€ in 2010, growing steadily to 111 b€ in 2019 [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/NAMA_10R_2GDP__custom_679306/default/table?lang=en](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/NAMA_10R_2GDP__custom_679306/default/table?lang=en) (Brussels not included)
    2. [https://feb.kuleuven.be/VIVES/publications/policy_papers/Beleidspapers/2010/2010-2-policy-paper-VIVES](https://feb.kuleuven.be/VIVES/publications/policy_papers/Beleidspapers/2010/2010-2-policy-paper-VIVES) -> 3.8 b€ / year in 2007 in transfers from Flanders to Wallonia, which comes down to about 5% of Wallonian GDP (so definately NOT 2%) (Brussels not included)
    3. According to a **Namur** university study, the yearly transfers from Flanders to Wallonia+Brussels are 8 b€ (so above 4% of Wallonian+Brussels GDP (link in point 1), published here in the Standaard: [https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20150505_01665735](https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20150505_01665735)
    4. Documents from the Flemish parliament make much harsher calculations, but let’s take those with a grain of salt.

    Transfers between regions are normal and should be looked upon without emotion. There’s no need to try to convince people with bent figures. If you’re altering reality to fit your mindset, and cherrypick graphs like that, you’re only going to get affirmed by your echochamber and easily taken down by people capable of googling.

    Your third point is just hilarious. You’re going to compare transfers in a neighbouring country that has about 80% of their population at work to Belgium?? The Netherlands, which had a policy of austerity for about the last 10 years? And Ile de France, which holds one of the planets major business capitals as well as thé most tourist attracting city on earth? And 12 million people live in Ile de France. Just a sad argument.

    I’m calling BS on your entire narrative.

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