“People don’t have babies to make taxpayers” — Finland’s childfree defend choices amid shrinking population debate | Yle News
by elfransat
“People don’t have babies to make taxpayers” — Finland’s childfree defend choices amid shrinking population debate | Yle News
by elfransat
32 comments
I can absolutely understand the free choice of not having children, but at the same time most of the people who do hold these values also want the welfare state, which in its current form without massive reforms cannot exist without the population at least maintaining its size. You need to understand massive welfare cuts have to be made if the population declines and the whole economic paradigm this country runs on has to change, and its not going to be easy for most of the people.
Her pension will literally be paid by the children she advocates against.
I do understand that uncertainty does affect the choices of having children, but what I truly despise is that women are promoting being childless, solely because of the reason of you having a choice. Or what’s the point with the voluntary childless association (vapaaehtoiset lapsettomat(yle translation is not the best)).
I already get used to the idea that my generation (30yo now) will not have a real retirement pension. I started accumulating money in an investment fund and hope to die before those money will finish. That’s the plan 🥲.
Maybe people who want children should spend more time having children and less time complaining about people that don’t want children. Also, if you really want to make a difference you need to have 3 or more kids. 1 or 2 kids make no difference from the birthrate perspective.
The problem isn’t the people childfree by choice, it’s that the people who want children choose to not have them because of economics. There’s a study from Sweden iirc that shows that it’s the high income earners who most often have children. Children has become a class symbol.
Here’s an article about the study (Swedish)
https://www.su.se/forskning/nyheter-forskning/h%C3%B6ginkomsttagare-f%C3%A5r-fler-barn-1.635619
Oh nooo how dare women have the choice not to become human incubators and prioritize their careers and health instead
My retirement plan is pretty much just raising a large family next to drinkable water. I am 27 and I fully believe that people of my age and younger are never going to see anything substantial out of the retirement fund. Furthermore, it could very well be that in 20-30 years your best bet for actually getting care at an older age is either substantial wealth and/or just having a family that will look after you. Of course hopefully I will not need care in 30 years, but if you are closing to 40 now I would think thrice what the future will be…
I don’t know if any western country has mitigated this problem. Everything possible has been tried.
I think we need some new ideas. Like group parenting or kinder Garten taking charge of the baby or similar.
Sometimes I have a tinfoil hat crackpot theory that support for assisted suicide (which I’m in favor of) has some hidden backers of economic futurists, who want to lessen the upcoming explosion in the number of old people.
Well maybe I would have had kids if I wasn’t told at school and by relatives that as a lesbian me having kids would be child abuse.
As a 42 year old my retirement plan is crime
TBH people who don’t want to have children, definitely shouldn’t have them!
We have more than enough neglected and abused children already, no need for people who are likely to be horrible parents contribute to that.
isnt less people good? we already have so many unemployed
Why is anyone surprised since all you read about is either war, climate and all systems are fucked with no incentives to work hard as you can’t afford anything in the end while the winners are the boomers who are now retiring or have already retired.
I truly hate the % of my salary going to some pension shit each month with already insane taxes that are just increasing every year it feels like. I want this money now when I’m healthy and starting to build a life outside the safety net of the parents cradle.
The system has aged so badly. Why can’t we ignore pension saving until you’re 50+ and spend what is now the last 20 years of your worklife to save up for some pension and let the first 20 years of your life be the part where you can get on track and perhaps almost be done with paying of a mortgage (roughly of course). Then take for all I care 50% of the salary into some pension if I own a house/home.
Anyone above the age of 50 this is what you created now deal with it, you got cocky. Your overpriced houses will surely save you later where no one will be around to help you and we’ll doom scroll social media until we drop dead. Life now has no point and you only live once so here we are.
I live across the bay from you and we have the same problem.
Honestly, between people having the ability to just choose not to have them because they’ve never wanted them or lack the desire, to just not being able to afford them, to what is happening in the world, it’s very difficult to see how more people will have kids.
Yes, there have always been wars and plagues but the ability to truly not have children and still have sex has only been available for the last few generations.
Secondly, plenty of people actually want kids. Estonia has a generous support for a parent that stays at home. And yet, people won’t have them because they cannot afford them. It’s amazing that we get 18 months of your previous salary… but if with your previous salary you managed just about, it means that adding an extra mouth or even two if multiple pregnancy means you suddenly have to manage with less per person. All whilst your expenditure has gone up due to more food or household costs, maybe bigger transport costs and often bigger living space needs as well.
If a person earns 2K and without kids can put away 1/4 of their salary, then chances are high that without kids that 1/4 will not be put away but it will be used on the kids. In the beginning, yes, the kid will not need much but at one point they will actually need stuff too.
And idk how it’s in Finland, but you’re very unlucky in Estonia if you have a kid that has either dietary special needs (expensive food and formula even with the prescriptions) or actual physical or mental special needs – you’ll pay yourself nuts with all the services you need with probably reduced amount of income if you cannot work either.
With the cost of living and lack of affordable living space, I cannot afford to have a kid because I can hardly support myself in a way that an adult should be able to support themselves.
And what would the point be to have a kid who cannot have hobbies or attend lessons of something they like because I cannot afford them? I can hardly travel as is and I’d at least want the chance for my kid to see something other than just their homeland – yeah, it’s privilege talking, but if I can hardly afford to take myself how would I take them too?
Random commenter and irrelevant comment here, didn’t read shit buttttt. Both my wife and I are immigrants – one EU one not…. For a longggg time we didn’t want children but that might have changed… I only hope Finland helps and encourages us to do so… not cuz we want or need help but because we both built a life here based on values, and despite whatever kids might happen being separated from the rest of their extended families, this is where we would want to raise them.
Having children used to be something that was just taken for granted. Having them around wasn’t that big of a deal, biggest investment was having another mouth to feed. Maybe a bigger car. But now? Now child is an economic burden.
Childfree Finland is Russian victory
Blah.
Kids are awesome! You should make some! They initially require very little. Also people that have kids like to hire you if you have kids, me included. It’s like a secret club. ”That person has kids, that person needs the job”.
People had children through much harder times in centuries past. And you have children to continue your lineage and culture as well creating a legacy. A lot of the people in the article seem to be obsessed with individual lives instead of imagining a world they leave for future generations in decades or even a century to come
I remember this phrase I’ve read somewhere that went something like this: “Not having children today is the biggest middle finger you can give to capitalism”, and I agree with it 100%.
Everything is expensive, high taxes, low salaries, what the fuck do they expect?
No kids because of inability to attract a woman to my life.
Saving all I can
Now about 30 years time to work until retirement.
There are multiple problems to address here
1. People are currently on pension mostly paid for their pension during their lives.
2. People are choosing not to or aren’t able to afford having children
3. People who are currently paying for #1 are very unlikely to receive sufficient or any pension after their retirement due to #2
No govt policy is going to affect #1 because they are the majority vote bank at the moment. #2 might be able to save a bit more for retirement as they save enormous amount of money spent on raising children if they are of the “choice” kind.
Its a deadlock situation and people in #3 are fucked. Maybe if their kids turn out nice, they may have family support to look towards in the future like many 3rd world countries.
its like they dont get that if the cost of living isnt at a reasonable level then people wont have enough time or money to think about starting families
To run a welfare country, only two things are needed:
People need to pay high taxes.
People need to reproduce.
Fail either one of these and the welfare country ceases to exist.
When welfare country ceases to exist, we go back to the old system where you only take care of your family and welfare at old age only comes from having plenty of offspring. When you have no kids, who’s going to wipe your a$$ when you are old?
Now let that sink and choose wisely.
Honestly I would LOVE to have kids BUT I just can’t afford them and there wouldn’t be any support around me since I’m in no contact with my abusive parents. My boyfriends parents live far away and are at retirement age. I struggle with poor mental health and think often about suicide. Everything is uncertain around the world with politics and feels like it’s only getting worse. I would be an incredibly selfish and a horrible mother if I would choose to have a kid and raise them in these circumstances.
**Childfreedom’ is a valid choice** Agreed.
October 2025: It’s so baffling that as we cross 7 of the 9 Planetary Boundaries and live in the midst of the 6th mass extinction, it’s so baffling that rich folks are trying to make this choice illegal… 🚩🌎👀🤦♀️
Only people from kokoomus might have romantic talks like “Let’s make a new taxpayer” and get kicks out of that.
I refuse to believe people would really not have kids due to poor financial circulstances if otherwise they would want them. Excluding now the single women who would have a child alone if they could afford fertility treatments, because that costs actual money upfront.
There’s few places in the whole world in any time period where it’s as safe and supported to have children as it is in Finland now. Quality childcare is basically free. Child’s healthcare is free. School is free until adulthood. Used kids’ clothes and hobby equipment are readily available and safe to buy for very little money. Are you unemployed? Great! More time to spend with your kid, and it”s encouraged to stay home until the child is 3 anyway. Do you live in a rented one room studio? No problem! Kids don’t need their own room. Humans have lived together in small spaces forever. Wherever you live in Finland the water and food is clean and they can’t shut down your heat even if you don’t pay it. There’s lots of free stuff to do for kids and nature to roam. Someone born relatively poor still has a chance to have a stable, middle class adulthood.
Now I understand not having kids because it’s just not something you want to do with your life. Because it is one of those things that takes all your energy and time. It’s not for everyone and I love it that people can now make an informed decision about that rather than regret in middle age because they feel like they didn’t even make a choice, having kids was just “the thing to do” like it was for every generation before this one.
Childfree by choice here. I like my quiet peaceful evenings, tidy abode and cash in account to buy stuff.
Plan to become Soylent Green for a greater good for all.
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