Krugman: China Has Overtaken America. Electricity generation is strongly correlated with economic growth. China now generates over twice as much electricity as the US. Trump's policies guarantee that we will never catch up. What is the source of this breathtaking ignorance and hostility to progress?
byu/mafco inenergy
by mafco
44 comments
The greed of the oil-barons, and their scare of the future
Wait I thought we were going for less energy usage to combat global warming.
Krugman has a track record of being very wrong on quite a few issues. For starters, energy per capita is far more indicative than total energy, and China has about 4x the population of the US. That isn’t to say they won’t surpass the US in the mid-term future, but they’ll still need to double their current output to do so.
Krugman is easily diligent enough to know that total energy is not the same metric as per capita. This is him propagandizing.
Im no expert, but there is probably a difference in electricity consumption between a services based economy and a manufacturing based economy even if both have the same size.
Trump got a lot of money from the Oil Industry and now he is trying to funnel as much money towards them as he can before the wheels completely come off their system. At the total expense of Americans in the present and America’s future.
Professor “China is about to fail for real this time” Krugman? He’s right that GDP measurements can be inflated. US GDP is inflated by rent which does not generate economic activity by itself and healthcare which is highly inflated in cost. GDP as measured by kWh is a better picture. China at twice the size is about correct.
Edit: on the flip side, China arbitrarily suppress their currency valuations for price stability and export competitiveness. It may not be fair to its trading partners though. The effect is Chinese GDP in dollars is suppressed while US’ is inflated.
The source is stupidity
Embracing renewable energy would require the current GOP government to admit that the liberals were right about renewable energy for the last 30+ years and they were wrong.
So, don’t expect them to ever embrace it. We’ll have to live with the consequences or, like every other environmental issue, force it against their objections through local and state governments, and occasionally the federal government when we get a chance.
Trump is a narcissistic sociopath and is basically controlled by his anger. A real leader would have never chosen economic war in times of a crushing deficit. But a narcissist is bound by his beliefs, and in Trumps case, his stupidity.
The designers of Project2025 want the economy to crash, because they want a new economic approach that is basically some kind of barter trade. They will buy everything they can get their greedy hands on and will be the kings, because they are the guys with the supplies. It‘s very archaic and as most of you already know, can only function if you got rid of the democracy itself.
Having not read the article, I focus on the title…
What is the source? A many decades-long plan by conservatives to undermine public education in the U.S. Congratulations, Republicans, you won. The voters are now a majority of idiots, unable to think critically.
America is too dumb-downed by right wing propaganda
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Source= amount of money he gets under the table. If you are so blind to mot see something free like solar and wind power are not a good idea your nuts. Of course you have to pay for the infrastructure but long term. He says a free plane who wouldn’t take? Well eventually these take so much stress off the grid. Biggest reason and china always ahead of us on, the race for AI facilities. The amount of energy required is insane and water needed but they are racing for that also and we have a president that wants to go back to horse and buggy.
An unwavering beliefs in failed political ideas akin to religion. Oh. And greed. The underlying driving force.
I really wonder if these comments are all bots or what. Either they’re all just flat out retarded or bots causing division. Look at the article and maybe ask ChatGPT to explain per capita then have it explain how to lobotomize yourself
Our Republican Party. Same story since before the millennium. No other power does more harm to the US, its allies, and Earth than the US Republican Party, “the most dangerous organization in history.” #Chomsky
Money.
Oil and gas companies have bought out politicians on both sides of the aisle in Canada, the USA, and Mexico, resulting in North America’s productivity levels returning to those of the 1970s.
Trump, whose term ends in 3 years, guarantees that the US will *never* catch up?
The stupidity of you, Krugman also contributed. Don’t be so humble.
Greed is killing the USA and the main reason is the GOP party is paid for by billionaires and is controlled by foreign governments.
The source? Its naked greed.
Trump is the source of the problem. Very simple.
I’m not sure this is making the point Krugman thinks he is. China is producing nearly 60% of its generation from coal. In raw TWh’s, they produce twice as much electricity from coal as the entire output from the EU’s gird in 2024.
Money, power, monopoly.
His donations from the fossil fuel industry.
The darkness skies of the trump plague have covered the whole country.
The trajectory of America is giving me so much anxiety
*”Trump, for years, tried to block an offshore wind farm from being built in view of one of his golf course projects in Scotland, but ultimately lost the legal battle in 2019 and his company was ordered to pay more than $290,000 to the Scottish government in legal fees. He’s made a number of baseless claims about what he says are harmful effects of wind turbines over the years, claiming they cause cancer, are unreliable sources of energy and lower property values. Trump is broadly opposed to President Joe Biden’s clean energy policies and has vowed to lift regulations related to U.S. oil and gas production, including a moratorium on new permits for liquefied natural gas exports and a rollback of Biden’s policies to promote electric vehicle production.”*
*”Trump has claimed for years that windmills have a negative impact on whales, telling an audience at a rally in South Carolina in 2023 they are driving whales “crazy” and are a contributing factor in whale deaths. He said in January wind farms “obviously” kill whales. There is no evidence to support a link between whale mortalities and off-shore wind farms, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association, which says “vessel strikes and entanglement in fishing gear are the greatest human threats to large whales.”*
[source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2025/01/15/trump-calls-windmills-an-economic-and-environmental-disaster-in-latest-rant-against-turbines/)
Not from the US but have a fair grasp of the dynamics you cite in your piece.
As an external observer, it appears to me that the current administration is pursuing the complete dismantling of all initiatives and policies (not just environmental and the obvious knock-on effects for global US science) initiated by Democratic predecessors.
I am not sure where this drive comes from but there does not appear to be any rational explanation. The explanations that seem to occupy the media space point to deep character flaws within the executive branch and spilling out into those which have traditionally been free of direct interference from political manipulation via threat or constant spurious challenges.
The reading so far is that at the behest of 47, the financial, judicial, social services, education, medical, environmental, research and development spheres are being subjected to massive destabilisation with all capitulating to a lesser or greater degree. This, including what one can only describe as the rabid froth of militarism with ICE and the deployment of combat troops to the civil domain, is tearing the social fabric of the US apart.
So, from the outside, the deep seated antagonism towards renewables is simply a reflection of a government that is intent on destroying anything and everything linked to the basic principles of humanity, democracy and the larger prosperity index of the United States.
Conservatives are expressly against progress if it cannot be owned. People can’t progress at all unless they’re part of the family or in caste. Energy can’t be generated unless it is owned by one of the energy companies. Government cannot exist unless it’s controlled by a king who can do anything he wants with it.
People can’t game now rights than before because that leads to less ownership.
Short-term politics. China plans for the next 30 years.
We csnt think past the next election cycle
Well usa as far i can see that 🤡 wants to go back to the 1880 anyway where you don’t need electricity 😂😂😂
Only guns and oil
The new saying is “China is led by engineers, US is led by lawyers.”
Engineers look at every problem and try to build their way out. Lawyers obstruct as thier primary problem solving technique.
Really explains how we look at the same problems so differently. There are certainly many cases when you want a lawyer by your side, but in today’s world, the engineer will be of use more often.
In order for the GOP to succeed they had to Weaponized stupidity. They had to pull in anti-vaxers, and anti-science, and anti-environmentalists, and climate change deniers, and flat earthers, and people who think kids killed in school shootings are paid actors, and on and on.
Ultimately they simply have to deny the real world and any type of truth. That has consequences, and one of those consequences is that your decisions don’t actually make sense.
Renewable energy companies don’t line tRump pockets with cash. Ugh
Both.
$$$$$
On the other hand, consuming less energy is a good thing for the planet.
Don’t worry, this administration is pushing “clean coal” to make a comeback.
Ehh they have four times the population and they manufacture everything for the planet. America is still ahead in many sectors. I have said much more in my post history, but I’m tired of typing it out.
Make no mistake, Trump and Republicans are making America far worse; I yelled as much loudly back in 2015, but I don’t think America has lost.
USA essentially wants to double down on natural gas and are attempting to do with critical minerals the same thing they did with fracking, it’s the reliance on energy efficiency as a virtual source of supply. Also structural changes in the economy as it moves to be a more service sector economy will result in lower energy intensity over time. China is a manufacturing and industrial power, resulting in higher rates of electrification.
AI is the next ‘space race’ and it takes a lot of power to be successful. The US is not prepared to be competitive with China on power and China will dominate the AI sector in the world.
They have a plan tho. To address this energy capacity build out they have cancelled ESMERELDA 7. This will ensure 0 of 6.2GW of dirty solar to be added to the grid.
We need 83GW by 2030 so hopefully this decision helps.
Thank you for attention to this matter
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