I see they’ve never been to Crystal Palace, there are an insane amount of children (my own included)
That’s been the case for about 15 years now.
Yeah, we moved out in 1999. House prices were crazy then. Luckily I had a teaching qualification but I would have liked to stay. That said, Norfolk is lovely.
This country is doing everything for educated responsible women not to be able to have children – nursery costs, housing costs, firing women in maternity leaves. I have no idea how people are still managing having children being squeezed like this.
-> Finds above average salary earning partner
-> Realise both need to work to afford savings for a 1-2 bed flat within 45 minutes of each others work
-> Has child, but outgrows flat/ logistics aren’t easy
-> Mum needs to get back on the career ladder to save more to upsize
-> Now need help with childcare as both parents out of the house during working week
-> Neither grew up in London, closest family 1hr+ away
-> Gets some government support, but pick up in time is stressful, especially if tubes are delayed. Often pay more for longer day care.
-> Still don’t earn enough as a duo to upsize in commuting distance
-> Moves further out. Now minimum 1hr door to door each. That’s ok though as they can work 2-3 days from home and alternate.
-> Commute cost, extra child care, family car eats up any salary progression.
-> Company thinks working from home is woke and orders all staff back into the office 4-5 days.
-> Commute cost, childcare costs intensify.
-> 🫠
Family face choices
-> sacrifice avocados
-> move to a further LCOL/ further out and increase commute cost even more
-> one gives up work for childcare, especially if they are thinking of any more children
-> implode
I live in Stoke Newington and there are prams and cargo bikes galore here
Hmmmm I wonder why?
Used to live in zone 2 in a flat. It made little no sense since both wife and I are now remote. Moved to zone 6 London instead for more space, better schools and nursery while having a frequent Elizabeth Line train to Central London. It’s a no brainer if you’re starting a family.
I have to say while it’s nice to have new faces and people moving into London, as a full Londoner, born and raised, seeing friends of mine or even just other Londoners who grew up here being pushed out by the rent prices is disheartening.
We’re watching corporate greed eat away at our lives, quality of living, even the choice to have kids (which can be the most rewarding experience anyone can endure – not for everyone, but can be), just to suck us dry of every last penny they can.
But people seem to think we have two lives or something.
Forced is bit extreme.
No choice but to.. is more appropriate.
If you’re a couple renting a flat.. that isn’t suitable and you don’t have good work perks, salary doesn’t extend to reduced hours, and childcare etc..
Then yes..
But the cycle is more extreme than this.
When my daughter was born, I received 4 months fully paid paternity leave, as I had a great employer. Wife was self employed and we just made it work.
We did move out to Ascot, but the reality being further down the line..
Childcare costs are extreme anywhere, I have greatly increased travel costs.
In the event of a train delay and getting to pick my daughter up from now pre school.. I’m pretty fucked.
So the reality becomes one of you ends up staying local if you do this and therefore earning less, offsetting the outlay you had if you didn’t move.
Having a baby to manage ime, is actually far easier than a child where care is only really available for 8am to 6pm. My train takes 1hr.. at best.
People really need to plan for later.
And they aren’t being forced.
That’s been the case for 25 years or so.
No shit, I had to move back to my home country. The SMP is a joke.
I’m 26 – I was born in London & grew up here, and work in the city as an E&M Engineer.
My partner and I have nearly closed on a 3&1/2 bed semi in Chelmsford – the square footage is about double what we’d get in London for the same price.
We’re lucky in that I can work from home three days a week & my employer will subsidise my commuting costs when I do need to go in, & there are positions available in my partner’s industry in/near Chelmsford, but even with those mitigating factors, family life in London would be a pipedream for us, so I have no idea how people who:
1. Can’t work from home
2. Don’t have commute reimbursement schemes at work
3. Don’t have two sizeable salaries
4. Have minimal support from extended family
Could afford to have kids nowadays.
I mean, this has been happening for decades right? That’s why the Home Counties are so fucking expensive. Regardless of the price, I don’t know why you’d want to raise kids in London with the traffic and pollution.
Is this a problem? The whole thing of moving to the Home Counties to have kids is a timeless phenomenon. It’s what the Home Counties are for.
The kids want to have a garden and ride their bike around a sleepy cul de sac in suburbia. Let the Home Counties have their job.
Might outsource my family to a cheaper country and just FaceTime the kids on birthdays.
No shit. Only those in council houses or rich can stay in London
No shit I think the number of schools closing would be a good indication and has been happening over the last 10 years.
I’m still here though zone 3. One kid though. Using all the London perks.
This is what happens when you prioritise questionable “neighbourhood character” and unattainable building regulations over increasing housing supply to meet demand.
10 years ago this was already true
I don’t get Londoners who are obsessed with getting a house. Why are people who live in a global city so scared of density and flats?
It’s not just about money, although yes, that is one of the biggest challenges.
Like a lot of our friends who aren’t in high-paying jobs, my husband and I saved for a decade to be able to afford a flat and a child. It was hard, but doable. We managed it without help from our families, either in the form of £ or free childcare.
Five years after our first child was born, we had our second. It took us that long to recover financially enough to start paying for childcare again. Fortunately, with the introduction of free hours for younger kids, other parents won’t have to wait this long.
With two kids, our flat was too small, so we needed a house. This is where it got really difficult. Insane prices aside, there just aren’t many family-sized houses left. Most have been converted into flats. The competition is insane.
On top of that, there’s all of the totally unnecessary inconvenience that comes with having multiple children, even if they’re at the same school. Settling in weeks, anyone? My husband and I both work full-time, he mostly from the office. How are we supposed to do four school runs a day?! Then there are all of the things parents are expected to be involved in, all of the meetings and events to attend (x n children). I’m not talking about the PTA. Just the bare minimum parental involvement is exhausting. And always in the middle of the work day.
We’re lucky that our school’s after school club runs til 6pm (assuming you can get a place – took us two years). The neighbouring school’s closes at 5.30. How are parents supposed to get there by 5.30 after a day of work?
All through this, there’s the unspoken assumption that one parent works while the other has a lot of free time. But if you both work f/t, or if you’re a single parent…? Well, fuck you, then.
And all of this is before you get to secondary school.
It’s difficult to do anything about house prices, but there are a lot of areas where things could be made easier for working Londoners with kids.
They need to create a childless city.
Wtf would want to bring kids up in London?
Experts just figured this out?
People have been leaving London to have kids for the last 10 years at least. I could have warned about this back then.
How does one go about getting one of these expert jobs because I’m obviously qualified?
Byeeeee
I do worry about people, no one seems to have any memory.
This has been an issue for 40+ years maybe it’s always been an issue and it’s not a London issue, it’s a world wide issue, capital cities costs more because space is more desirable.
There is no solution to this and it’s a non issue when you compare it to prices 10 years from now
Great work by the Standard, they’re only stating what’s been known to all of us for the last 20 years…and I’m being generous by only listing it as 20 years.
Londoners have to move out while foreigners get moved into council homes for free in all areas of London.
Having children is a thing of the past.
This is no different that when I lived in London in the early 2000s – young single people like me lived in small bedsits / house shares in Zone 2/3 and the old married with kids people at my work lived way further out.
Erm, yep. And it’s been like that for at least 20 years.
Good thing we spunk billions shrinking the roads though instead of investing in housing. We’re not a functioning country anymore.
Yeah no shit
Don’t blame them. In my case, lorry driver on 50, wife in education on 40. Two kids, no debt and a 300k house and neither of us near 40.
Move to where you will thrive
Fucking banned in London. More at 7.
Of course they will. That is so obvious being a diverse global city. Not just London though. I see a future like Mega City One. Brit Meg be it. One big massive urban sprawl with areas of cursed earth filled with mutants and renegade robot gangs
Yup, our exact issue right now, 1 bed flat’s a struggle never mind a 2 bed for a kid
There’s 10 billion people in the world, we should be stopping production for the next 20 years or so anyway.
This is a good thing. People should be leaving London, then maybe the government will give more of a crap about the rest of the country.
Young people living in London have had a massive headstart, whether you want to accept that or not (assuming you have parents who can afford their rent/mortgage). You’re living in a city with higher minimum wages than the rest of the country, all while living with parents and paying little rent (if any). You should have saved up enough for a deposit by the age of 23-25, even if you went to uni.
You will also inherit a boat load of money from your parent’s estate so stop acting like living in London is hard. Living in London is hard for people with no family there, not people who are born there.
45 comments
There’s a whole police force now managing this process I’ve heard. Rounding millennials up and putting them on the train
Even Josh Widdicombe has gone West.
Only because my 3 month old baby won’t pay rent!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NoShitSherlock/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoShitSherlock/)
“capital risks becoming a child-free city”
I see they’ve never been to Crystal Palace, there are an insane amount of children (my own included)
That’s been the case for about 15 years now.
Yeah, we moved out in 1999. House prices were crazy then. Luckily I had a teaching qualification but I would have liked to stay. That said, Norfolk is lovely.
This country is doing everything for educated responsible women not to be able to have children – nursery costs, housing costs, firing women in maternity leaves. I have no idea how people are still managing having children being squeezed like this.
-> Finds above average salary earning partner
-> Realise both need to work to afford savings for a 1-2 bed flat within 45 minutes of each others work
-> Has child, but outgrows flat/ logistics aren’t easy
-> Mum needs to get back on the career ladder to save more to upsize
-> Now need help with childcare as both parents out of the house during working week
-> Neither grew up in London, closest family 1hr+ away
-> Gets some government support, but pick up in time is stressful, especially if tubes are delayed. Often pay more for longer day care.
-> Still don’t earn enough as a duo to upsize in commuting distance
-> Moves further out. Now minimum 1hr door to door each. That’s ok though as they can work 2-3 days from home and alternate.
-> Commute cost, extra child care, family car eats up any salary progression.
-> Company thinks working from home is woke and orders all staff back into the office 4-5 days.
-> Commute cost, childcare costs intensify.
-> 🫠
Family face choices
-> sacrifice avocados
-> move to a further LCOL/ further out and increase commute cost even more
-> one gives up work for childcare, especially if they are thinking of any more children
-> implode
I live in Stoke Newington and there are prams and cargo bikes galore here
Hmmmm I wonder why?
Used to live in zone 2 in a flat. It made little no sense since both wife and I are now remote. Moved to zone 6 London instead for more space, better schools and nursery while having a frequent Elizabeth Line train to Central London. It’s a no brainer if you’re starting a family.
I have to say while it’s nice to have new faces and people moving into London, as a full Londoner, born and raised, seeing friends of mine or even just other Londoners who grew up here being pushed out by the rent prices is disheartening.
We’re watching corporate greed eat away at our lives, quality of living, even the choice to have kids (which can be the most rewarding experience anyone can endure – not for everyone, but can be), just to suck us dry of every last penny they can.
But people seem to think we have two lives or something.
Forced is bit extreme.
No choice but to.. is more appropriate.
If you’re a couple renting a flat.. that isn’t suitable and you don’t have good work perks, salary doesn’t extend to reduced hours, and childcare etc..
Then yes..
But the cycle is more extreme than this.
When my daughter was born, I received 4 months fully paid paternity leave, as I had a great employer. Wife was self employed and we just made it work.
We did move out to Ascot, but the reality being further down the line..
Childcare costs are extreme anywhere, I have greatly increased travel costs.
In the event of a train delay and getting to pick my daughter up from now pre school.. I’m pretty fucked.
So the reality becomes one of you ends up staying local if you do this and therefore earning less, offsetting the outlay you had if you didn’t move.
Having a baby to manage ime, is actually far easier than a child where care is only really available for 8am to 6pm. My train takes 1hr.. at best.
People really need to plan for later.
And they aren’t being forced.
That’s been the case for 25 years or so.
No shit, I had to move back to my home country. The SMP is a joke.
I’m 26 – I was born in London & grew up here, and work in the city as an E&M Engineer.
My partner and I have nearly closed on a 3&1/2 bed semi in Chelmsford – the square footage is about double what we’d get in London for the same price.
We’re lucky in that I can work from home three days a week & my employer will subsidise my commuting costs when I do need to go in, & there are positions available in my partner’s industry in/near Chelmsford, but even with those mitigating factors, family life in London would be a pipedream for us, so I have no idea how people who:
1. Can’t work from home
2. Don’t have commute reimbursement schemes at work
3. Don’t have two sizeable salaries
4. Have minimal support from extended family
Could afford to have kids nowadays.
I mean, this has been happening for decades right? That’s why the Home Counties are so fucking expensive. Regardless of the price, I don’t know why you’d want to raise kids in London with the traffic and pollution.
Is this a problem? The whole thing of moving to the Home Counties to have kids is a timeless phenomenon. It’s what the Home Counties are for.
The kids want to have a garden and ride their bike around a sleepy cul de sac in suburbia. Let the Home Counties have their job.
Might outsource my family to a cheaper country and just FaceTime the kids on birthdays.
No shit. Only those in council houses or rich can stay in London
No shit I think the number of schools closing would be a good indication and has been happening over the last 10 years.
I’m still here though zone 3. One kid though. Using all the London perks.
This is what happens when you prioritise questionable “neighbourhood character” and unattainable building regulations over increasing housing supply to meet demand.
10 years ago this was already true
I don’t get Londoners who are obsessed with getting a house. Why are people who live in a global city so scared of density and flats?
It’s not just about money, although yes, that is one of the biggest challenges.
Like a lot of our friends who aren’t in high-paying jobs, my husband and I saved for a decade to be able to afford a flat and a child. It was hard, but doable. We managed it without help from our families, either in the form of £ or free childcare.
Five years after our first child was born, we had our second. It took us that long to recover financially enough to start paying for childcare again. Fortunately, with the introduction of free hours for younger kids, other parents won’t have to wait this long.
With two kids, our flat was too small, so we needed a house. This is where it got really difficult. Insane prices aside, there just aren’t many family-sized houses left. Most have been converted into flats. The competition is insane.
On top of that, there’s all of the totally unnecessary inconvenience that comes with having multiple children, even if they’re at the same school. Settling in weeks, anyone? My husband and I both work full-time, he mostly from the office. How are we supposed to do four school runs a day?! Then there are all of the things parents are expected to be involved in, all of the meetings and events to attend (x n children). I’m not talking about the PTA. Just the bare minimum parental involvement is exhausting. And always in the middle of the work day.
We’re lucky that our school’s after school club runs til 6pm (assuming you can get a place – took us two years). The neighbouring school’s closes at 5.30. How are parents supposed to get there by 5.30 after a day of work?
All through this, there’s the unspoken assumption that one parent works while the other has a lot of free time. But if you both work f/t, or if you’re a single parent…? Well, fuck you, then.
And all of this is before you get to secondary school.
It’s difficult to do anything about house prices, but there are a lot of areas where things could be made easier for working Londoners with kids.
They need to create a childless city.
Wtf would want to bring kids up in London?
Experts just figured this out?
People have been leaving London to have kids for the last 10 years at least. I could have warned about this back then.
How does one go about getting one of these expert jobs because I’m obviously qualified?
Byeeeee
I do worry about people, no one seems to have any memory.
This has been an issue for 40+ years maybe it’s always been an issue and it’s not a London issue, it’s a world wide issue, capital cities costs more because space is more desirable.
There is no solution to this and it’s a non issue when you compare it to prices 10 years from now
Great work by the Standard, they’re only stating what’s been known to all of us for the last 20 years…and I’m being generous by only listing it as 20 years.
Londoners have to move out while foreigners get moved into council homes for free in all areas of London.
Having children is a thing of the past.
This is no different that when I lived in London in the early 2000s – young single people like me lived in small bedsits / house shares in Zone 2/3 and the old married with kids people at my work lived way further out.
Erm, yep. And it’s been like that for at least 20 years.
Good thing we spunk billions shrinking the roads though instead of investing in housing. We’re not a functioning country anymore.
Yeah no shit
Don’t blame them. In my case, lorry driver on 50, wife in education on 40. Two kids, no debt and a 300k house and neither of us near 40.
Move to where you will thrive
Fucking banned in London. More at 7.
Of course they will. That is so obvious being a diverse global city. Not just London though. I see a future like Mega City One. Brit Meg be it. One big massive urban sprawl with areas of cursed earth filled with mutants and renegade robot gangs
Yup, our exact issue right now, 1 bed flat’s a struggle never mind a 2 bed for a kid
There’s 10 billion people in the world, we should be stopping production for the next 20 years or so anyway.
This is a good thing. People should be leaving London, then maybe the government will give more of a crap about the rest of the country.
Young people living in London have had a massive headstart, whether you want to accept that or not (assuming you have parents who can afford their rent/mortgage). You’re living in a city with higher minimum wages than the rest of the country, all while living with parents and paying little rent (if any). You should have saved up enough for a deposit by the age of 23-25, even if you went to uni.
You will also inherit a boat load of money from your parent’s estate so stop acting like living in London is hard. Living in London is hard for people with no family there, not people who are born there.
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