Exiled Russian director Kirill Serebrennikov confronts absolute evil in new Hamlet and Mengele film

[Music] [Applause] [Music] Today on Arts 24, one of Europe’s most provocative and visionary artists. Exiled Russian director Carol Sarah Brennanov is in Paris with two works that confront uncomfortable truths about history, power, and human nature. His new film, The Disappearance of Joseph Mangeli, exposes the Nazi doctor’s escape to South America, while his bold multi- language production of Hamlet is showing at Paris’s Chhate Theater. Carol Seanov, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Thank you for your invitation. Both your Hamlet and your Mangali film open with skulls. Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Actually it’s quite different skulls and different meaning of the skulls for in in case of Shakespeare it’s like in Buddhistic tradition the skulls are the protectors or in European cultural tradition it’s like venitas or momento something about this man is nothing compared to the vast bloodiness of history an endless night out of which the ghost appears in a case of Mangal. It’s like also momentomor in a way, but it’s the start of coming to the void of going back to the past. You stage Hamlet with several actors speaking in four different languages in a world that we live in today that’s building new borders. Why does Shakespeare’s prince need to speak in this polyglock chorus? Look, uh I’m Russian speaker. I I work in Germany. I work in France. I use English as a language for the communication. So I’m surrounded by different languages and uh therefore the cultures. So uh it was not only about the languages but about the projections of Hamlet on uh the mirrors of different cultures. [Music] as it’s very interesting. I I adore how to be or not to be sounds in German or in Russian. Can you tell me what is it’s better ask August he tell me tell me in Russian Russian what’s in Russian it’s quite meaningful because this phrase became a kind of me and some something more than just a line from the old fashion play it’s some some it gets much more meaning today and become uh something important even for the people who didn’t read that play that’s what I wanted to explore in in this performance how the play old old play of 16th century became ai myth of of our time how it be how it reflects in our consciousness and subconsciousness why do you think it does because it’s very powerful it’s about the nature of the human some deep and important sometime sometimes dark some sometimes not dark uh features of uh human human beings and a very important thing that Hamlet is about the inaction. We are stuck in between be or not to be between to do or not to do to kill or not to kill and we are kind of paralyzed by all these knowledges and by all these reflections and we’re thinking we’re hesitating but the real guy called for just coming and solve everything. [Music] [Music] And you called the play your Hamlet um Hamlet Phantoms. We are Hamlet Shadows. You’ve said his ghosts. What ghosts are haunting us today? What are you talking about there? It’s probably what our film is about. Phantom of the past. In case of Hamlet Phantom, it’s about the shadows of play itself. But in case of uh Mangal, it’s about the past which bites people today or all of us. And we if we neglect or if we don’t want to know anything about the shadows of the past, about the evil, it comes back. Like Hamlet Phantom, Sabrinikov’s new film looks at what happens when ghosts refuse to rest. The disappearance of Joseph Mangeli traces the Nazi doctor’s escape to South America and the silence that let him live freely for decades. [Music] of Argentinian high and your film does try to place the camera inside the brain of one of history’s or darkest figures really. Why did you want to show us that perspective? Never done before first. Second, uh it’s quite important to to understand for me it was very important to understand how possible because we heard a lot of voices of the victims and it’s very important to give them the they have a right to speak and to explain their pain and to tell about the pain but actually it’s very important to get how how it became possible. What is the origin of the roots of of this absolute evil? So it’s a lot of questions and art exists just for asking the questions and to push us into thinking. I understand that Walt and it’s very important. I insist that W world is very complex and it’s important to know then not to forget this but but it’s important to know what is absolute evil. Killing people is absolute evil. Ait is absolute evil. Anti-semitism is absolute evil. uh murdering and all this uh massacre happened in Second World War is absolute evil and there is no but war is absolute evil. [Music] a phoenix since back. August um Dale plays Mangeli in the film. He also performs in your Hamlet. Um tell us why you like this actor so much. He’s a great actor of our time and he famous for for being different in Mangali. is absolutely amazing and exceptional performance. Show the person who is in panic in exile looking for possibility to survive being under the hard watch of everybody who looking for him. [Music] And here it’s a person who reflects and who tries to understand his past and try tries to get rid of of of the past of his evil and aggressive and uh very cruel father. The figure of father [Music] from the home. You um Carol were imprisoned and then later exiled from Russia. when you create art about ghosts, about monsters, and how much of that comes from your own experience with state power? Of course, I’m rich in this experience. Of course, I use it. Of course I know um about this fears and being oppressed and uh about this connection terrible and bad connection with power and about the past which bites you constantly and if you don’t protect yourself against it. So I I know Russian history is such bloody that terrible that horrible that of course I can’t stop using it and at the same moment it’s my what I’m rich about. There’s um a line in your rich with rich with rich with there’s a line in your Hamlet that says um art is tongue tied by authority. You were prosecuted for your art. Is this play also what happens when power tries to silence artists? I can’t stop saying about this. Of course, it’s what I’m I’m thinking. My my former student Jenna Berkovich is still in prison for the play and for the poetry for anti-war poetry. Imagine we are living in 2025 and today in Russia there are a lot of political prisoners and one of them is sitting for the poetry and for the play how it’s possible but it’s possible and it’s what I can’t stop thinking about. There are so many references to today’s world in the play. There’s even a nod to Trump’s slogan, make Denmark great again. Are you drawing parallels between Hamlet’s rotten Denmark and the politics of our own time? No, but look, theater is is always always a political statement because when we start to communicate each other, when we start to speak about what about our pains, our fears, it’s becoming statement. It become political political theater is politics itself because it’s not about the silence but about speaking about the communication between the people. That’s why the politicians hate theater. Theater uh is a very important thing. It push people into thinking, into reflection, into understanding, into um getting something much much deeper than all these political and other statements are. K, you seem to be so busy. You’re doing so many things. Can you just tell us a bit about what you’ll be doing next? I just finishing my first French film. So French film in French. The name of this film is a pre but it’s like very humble and very small something but with big stars and far gel Gileiam. Okay. It will be Chinese uh French project. Okay. Sounds interesting. Look forward to seeing it. Sounds sounds insane a little bit. Yeah. kind of continuing the hamlet. The insanity insanity. The insanity. Yeah. So, Renov, thank you so much. Thank you so much. It’s always a pleasure to have with you. Thank you. [Music]

In this edition of arts24, Eve Jackson meets one of Europe’s most daring and visionary artists. Exiled Russian filmmaker and theatre director Kirill Serebrennikov is in Paris with two powerful new works that confront the shadows of history and the systems that let them thrive. At the Théâtre du Châtelet, his radical, multilingual “Hamlet/Fantômes” features eight actors sharing the role of the Danish prince – speaking in English, French, German, and Russian – as Serebrennikov explores the ghosts haunting our present. On screen, his chilling new film “The Disappearance of Josef Mengele” follows the Nazi doctor’s flight to South America, revealing the silent complicity that allowed one of history’s monsters to escape justice. Serebrennikov speaks to Eve Jackson about skulls, systems, exile and why art must break down walls rather than build them.
#KirillSerebrennikov #Hamlet #TheDisappearanceOfJosefMengele

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