How could it not be? One of Putin’s principal adversaries in Europe would be severely weakened. Scotland provides essential components of the British military-industrial complex, alongside a home for the British nuclear deterrent (which the SNP would remove).
The same wankers that supported and continue to support Brexit. Go fucking jump.Â
So, reading past the title, Luke Pollard is referring specifically to the removal of nuclear weapons in the event of independence.
In which case, yes, that’s not an unreasonable nor particularly controversial position to hold. Throwing one of Europe’s nuclear deterrents into doubt at a time of an unreliable USA is a win for Putin.
The reply from Dave Doogan is a bit of useless misdirection, since a key point of NATO is the nuclear deterrent alongside collective defence. You can’t really boast about being nuclear free and making a fuss about weapons of mass destruction while safely hiding under their umbrella without looking like a bit of a twat.
Defence has long been one of the SNP’s weakest areas in terms of independence, and I don’t really buy the idea they’re ready to invest adequately in conventional forces like they claim here. There’s a very good chance of it being similar to Ireland in that regard, which isn’t good for our allies.
So these weapons can’t be stored elsewhere in the UK?
Putin would like nothing better than a permanent member of the UN Security Council being broken up and made weaker. How would Scotland defend it’s coastline and airspace without the Royal Navy and the RAF? Absolute bonkers.
Ahh, we’re back here are we, ok, cool.
It’s true though it would meet Putins strategic goals
To weaken his enemies In the same way Brexit also supported his goals
Why isn’t the Union doing more than the threat of war to save itself then ?
I mean an ex leader of the SNP went on to work for the Kremlin news agency and the SNP finances took a suspicious hit when Russian oligarch assets were blocked following the invasion of Ukraine.
Only one country benefits from the UK breaking up, and it isnt Scotland.
So even as someone who is absolutely Pro Indy like me, if you’re being honest with yourself you can’t deny the claim that breaking up one of Europes nuclear powers and removing the WMD from their current base would be good for Putin given the current geopolitical climate.
That being said, it’s the politicians job to find a work around that benefits all if an Independent Scotland comes to fruition.
For the independence movement to me taken seriously they need to be honest about the downsides of independence, and this is one of them.
I still want independence, but we need to be honest and admit it would be seen as a win for Russia, Iran, and whoever else we’re fighting with this week.
There is so much bullshit talked about what would happen to Faslane… by both sides of the debate.
Some of it is generated by the MSP for the region, a rent a quote British Nationalist obsessive, who can get a load of votes by scare stories about jobs.
And the reason it is bullshit is that in 2016 the MOD did a study of what they would do.
The MOD doesn’t want a facility in an independent Scotland – we can debate if they are right or not (I think its more a supply / access issue ) but the point is the rUK does not want a permanent base there. It would not want to fund the local infrastructure.
A move to Devonport would suit them, but would need to be done over a longish timescale to ensure continuity of coverage. I don’t know why other places (e.g. Barrow) were not considered, probably geological. The MOD (and thus NATO) do not see any defence problems with being based in Devonport.
And anyway, if he was going to be doing something where it did make a difference, he’d be going after Norway long before Scotland. An independent Scotland should join NATO, and should meet the defence spending targets, but the location of Nuclear Weapons would not be dictated by NATO.
Any independence discussion will have to include an agreement about the lead times of the move (which everybody wants), so the bullshit from some SNP gobshites about closing it down immediately is also bullshit.
So it is such a terrible argument to suggest something is bad because Putin likes it. Firstly it isn’t true and secondly so what? Our strategy should be what suits us, and a knee jerk reaction to annoying Putin risks cutting our nose off to spite our face.
Given how much Russian money has been flowing into the pockets of senior UK politicians over the years I’m not sure Putin losing all that investment would be a bad thing.Â
How about the Minister calls an inquiry into Russian interference in UK politics, specifically Brexit, or why we’ve made FSB assets into peers? Who’s really funding Reform? Why are we not looking into political donations before the 2020 election?
Funny that.Â
A divided UK is an inherently weaker UK, and this does indeed suit Putin.
It’s not a crass statement, it’s a bleeding obvious one.
And it should be bleeding obvious regardless which side of independence debate that you’re on.
But it would, there’s no question about it.
While I’m sure independence wouldn’t do Russia any harm, there’s absolutely no sense whatsoever in deciding something as monumental as “should we be our own country” on something as utterly irrelevant as “will Russia like it?”
It would be a win though a fractured UK is a weaker UK and weaker nato/West in this time of uncertainty in regards to global security I don’t think its a good idea, that’s not to say I don’t want independence in a more stable time though.
He’s not wrong though, Scotland would be better if it just got the respect it deserved from London like the rest of the north.Â
I don’t think breaking up the UK because of a fixable situation is a good move.Â
There’s nothing crass about it. It’s simple plain facts. A divided UK is much less of a threat to Russian interests. The headline is hyperbolic nonsense.
He is absolutely correct.
If Scotland breaks away from the UK, Westminster is Fucked !
Take everything these gwouls say and flip it around.
There sits the truth.
Surely getting rid of the junkie jocks will give them more money to spend fighting russia? After all we’re nothing but a drain on England apparently.
Truth hurts
Well from a military perspective it’s correct. It would open up the Atlantic to Russia with the Scottish area outside of NATO. Scotland would have a similar military capability to Ireland which is effectively zero.
Shouldn’t the hard right Pollard be talking up real wins for Putin and Russia in the shape of a Reform win.
Or did The Nat not mention that bit…
Ah..memories…sometimes it’s like its 2014 again, though, nothing will EVER top the “independence will make invasion by aliens more likely” line that one of them came out with.
>So what possible justification should there be for breaking up the United Kingdom? What could possibly justify giving the dictators, the persecutors, the oppressors, the annexers, the aggressors and the adventurers across the planet the biggest pre-Christmas present of their lives by tearing the United Kingdom apart? … I fear from time to time that we Scots are living in a veritable bubble in this debate and outside of that increasingly fractious bubble, we’re losing sight of the fact that our decision on the 18th of September will have much wider and bigger implications that any of us yet grasp.
>So the next few months, the people of Scotland have to properly and soberly examine the impact of their decision on the stability of the world. And in that time the rest of the ordered world needs to tell us that is actually cares.
Russia’s aim is to have a world where all countries are “independent” and all international relations are conducted on a bi-lateral basis. When it talks of “Western hegemony” and “Nazi rule” what it means is capitalist Liberal democracy. It historically believes in strong man politics so it can bully smaller independent states. It therefore hates international institutions and any international partnerships where countries can work together to challenge Russia, Egypt the EU, NATO, UN. Any opportunity to break international boundaries up into smaller units is seen to its advantage. That does not rule out an independent Scotland if the model chosen kept some form of UK armed forces, a bit like Scotland between 1603 and 1705, and to measures to ensure it wasn’t an economic burden to the EU, like Greece was. As neither of those options are likely with the SNP, their independence plans do aid Putin.
Rich coming from a party that seems to be at the bekon and call of Israel.
Also, while we are discussing foreign influence, perhaps they could prosecute all the tories and reformers that are conveniently doing putin’s wishes.
Obviously massively destabilising the military readiness and economy of one the two nuclear powers in Europe is good for Russia. Why do you think they’re investing so much in Scottish independence propaganda?
i would bet anyone a fiver that Vladimir Putin hasn’t spent so much as 15 minutes thinking about Scottish Independence across his entire life
Anything that divides the west is good for Putin, because the more we’re fighting ourselves, the more he gets away with.
Trump being president is the biggest gift anyone could give Putin. We shouldn’t be deciding what to do based on whether it benefits Putin or not, though.
36 comments
Well it would be tbf
https://preview.redd.it/qcc3c7l1xlwf1.jpeg?width=389&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f770ff84435cc2874014f3d1969d56997c501ab1
How could it not be? One of Putin’s principal adversaries in Europe would be severely weakened. Scotland provides essential components of the British military-industrial complex, alongside a home for the British nuclear deterrent (which the SNP would remove).
The same wankers that supported and continue to support Brexit. Go fucking jump.Â
So, reading past the title, Luke Pollard is referring specifically to the removal of nuclear weapons in the event of independence.
In which case, yes, that’s not an unreasonable nor particularly controversial position to hold. Throwing one of Europe’s nuclear deterrents into doubt at a time of an unreliable USA is a win for Putin.
The reply from Dave Doogan is a bit of useless misdirection, since a key point of NATO is the nuclear deterrent alongside collective defence. You can’t really boast about being nuclear free and making a fuss about weapons of mass destruction while safely hiding under their umbrella without looking like a bit of a twat.
Defence has long been one of the SNP’s weakest areas in terms of independence, and I don’t really buy the idea they’re ready to invest adequately in conventional forces like they claim here. There’s a very good chance of it being similar to Ireland in that regard, which isn’t good for our allies.
So these weapons can’t be stored elsewhere in the UK?
Putin would like nothing better than a permanent member of the UN Security Council being broken up and made weaker. How would Scotland defend it’s coastline and airspace without the Royal Navy and the RAF? Absolute bonkers.
Ahh, we’re back here are we, ok, cool.
It’s true though it would meet Putins strategic goals
To weaken his enemies In the same way Brexit also supported his goals
Why isn’t the Union doing more than the threat of war to save itself then ?
I mean an ex leader of the SNP went on to work for the Kremlin news agency and the SNP finances took a suspicious hit when Russian oligarch assets were blocked following the invasion of Ukraine.
Only one country benefits from the UK breaking up, and it isnt Scotland.
So even as someone who is absolutely Pro Indy like me, if you’re being honest with yourself you can’t deny the claim that breaking up one of Europes nuclear powers and removing the WMD from their current base would be good for Putin given the current geopolitical climate.
That being said, it’s the politicians job to find a work around that benefits all if an Independent Scotland comes to fruition.
For the independence movement to me taken seriously they need to be honest about the downsides of independence, and this is one of them.
I still want independence, but we need to be honest and admit it would be seen as a win for Russia, Iran, and whoever else we’re fighting with this week.
There is so much bullshit talked about what would happen to Faslane… by both sides of the debate.
Some of it is generated by the MSP for the region, a rent a quote British Nationalist obsessive, who can get a load of votes by scare stories about jobs.
And the reason it is bullshit is that in 2016 the MOD did a study of what they would do.
The MOD doesn’t want a facility in an independent Scotland – we can debate if they are right or not (I think its more a supply / access issue ) but the point is the rUK does not want a permanent base there. It would not want to fund the local infrastructure.
A move to Devonport would suit them, but would need to be done over a longish timescale to ensure continuity of coverage. I don’t know why other places (e.g. Barrow) were not considered, probably geological. The MOD (and thus NATO) do not see any defence problems with being based in Devonport.
And anyway, if he was going to be doing something where it did make a difference, he’d be going after Norway long before Scotland. An independent Scotland should join NATO, and should meet the defence spending targets, but the location of Nuclear Weapons would not be dictated by NATO.
Any independence discussion will have to include an agreement about the lead times of the move (which everybody wants), so the bullshit from some SNP gobshites about closing it down immediately is also bullshit.
So it is such a terrible argument to suggest something is bad because Putin likes it. Firstly it isn’t true and secondly so what? Our strategy should be what suits us, and a knee jerk reaction to annoying Putin risks cutting our nose off to spite our face.
Given how much Russian money has been flowing into the pockets of senior UK politicians over the years I’m not sure Putin losing all that investment would be a bad thing.Â
How about the Minister calls an inquiry into Russian interference in UK politics, specifically Brexit, or why we’ve made FSB assets into peers? Who’s really funding Reform? Why are we not looking into political donations before the 2020 election?
Funny that.Â
A divided UK is an inherently weaker UK, and this does indeed suit Putin.
It’s not a crass statement, it’s a bleeding obvious one.
And it should be bleeding obvious regardless which side of independence debate that you’re on.
But it would, there’s no question about it.
While I’m sure independence wouldn’t do Russia any harm, there’s absolutely no sense whatsoever in deciding something as monumental as “should we be our own country” on something as utterly irrelevant as “will Russia like it?”
It would be a win though a fractured UK is a weaker UK and weaker nato/West in this time of uncertainty in regards to global security I don’t think its a good idea, that’s not to say I don’t want independence in a more stable time though.
He’s not wrong though, Scotland would be better if it just got the respect it deserved from London like the rest of the north.Â
I don’t think breaking up the UK because of a fixable situation is a good move.Â
There’s nothing crass about it. It’s simple plain facts. A divided UK is much less of a threat to Russian interests. The headline is hyperbolic nonsense.
He is absolutely correct.
If Scotland breaks away from the UK, Westminster is Fucked !
Take everything these gwouls say and flip it around.
There sits the truth.
Surely getting rid of the junkie jocks will give them more money to spend fighting russia? After all we’re nothing but a drain on England apparently.
Truth hurts
Well from a military perspective it’s correct. It would open up the Atlantic to Russia with the Scottish area outside of NATO. Scotland would have a similar military capability to Ireland which is effectively zero.
Shouldn’t the hard right Pollard be talking up real wins for Putin and Russia in the shape of a Reform win.
Or did The Nat not mention that bit…
Ah..memories…sometimes it’s like its 2014 again, though, nothing will EVER top the “independence will make invasion by aliens more likely” line that one of them came out with.
Reminds me of this banger during the referendum
[https://www.brookings.edu/articles/lord-george-robertson-forces-of-darkness-would-love-scottish-split-from-united-kingdom/](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/lord-george-robertson-forces-of-darkness-would-love-scottish-split-from-united-kingdom/)
According to John, Scotland not being ruled by London would mean the collapse of western civilisation
https://preview.redd.it/9m2hxp5mjmwf1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71127c3e4bd7150bc50313b9c087081a7fd58830
>So what possible justification should there be for breaking up the United Kingdom? What could possibly justify giving the dictators, the persecutors, the oppressors, the annexers, the aggressors and the adventurers across the planet the biggest pre-Christmas present of their lives by tearing the United Kingdom apart? … I fear from time to time that we Scots are living in a veritable bubble in this debate and outside of that increasingly fractious bubble, we’re losing sight of the fact that our decision on the 18th of September will have much wider and bigger implications that any of us yet grasp.
>So the next few months, the people of Scotland have to properly and soberly examine the impact of their decision on the stability of the world. And in that time the rest of the ordered world needs to tell us that is actually cares.
Russia’s aim is to have a world where all countries are “independent” and all international relations are conducted on a bi-lateral basis. When it talks of “Western hegemony” and “Nazi rule” what it means is capitalist Liberal democracy. It historically believes in strong man politics so it can bully smaller independent states. It therefore hates international institutions and any international partnerships where countries can work together to challenge Russia, Egypt the EU, NATO, UN. Any opportunity to break international boundaries up into smaller units is seen to its advantage. That does not rule out an independent Scotland if the model chosen kept some form of UK armed forces, a bit like Scotland between 1603 and 1705, and to measures to ensure it wasn’t an economic burden to the EU, like Greece was. As neither of those options are likely with the SNP, their independence plans do aid Putin.
Rich coming from a party that seems to be at the bekon and call of Israel.
Also, while we are discussing foreign influence, perhaps they could prosecute all the tories and reformers that are conveniently doing putin’s wishes.
Obviously massively destabilising the military readiness and economy of one the two nuclear powers in Europe is good for Russia. Why do you think they’re investing so much in Scottish independence propaganda?
i would bet anyone a fiver that Vladimir Putin hasn’t spent so much as 15 minutes thinking about Scottish Independence across his entire life
Anything that divides the west is good for Putin, because the more we’re fighting ourselves, the more he gets away with.
Trump being president is the biggest gift anyone could give Putin. We shouldn’t be deciding what to do based on whether it benefits Putin or not, though.
https://i.redd.it/sph9e9xrtmwf1.gif
What utter pish
Comments are closed.