1.03 / “this is about uniting people, not territory“
Both of them make very valid points.
The United Ireland debate is far more complex than any of us truly understand and for that reason I think it could/would be a huge mistake if it were rushed to a vote.
Lot of people want a Republican Ireland not a united one.
I doubt they’ll highlight the neoliberal hellscape that the Current model is, 30 murdered women, girls forced to wear skirts, main water source is contaminated for years thanks to moronic farming practices, politicians offer thoughts and prayers whilst they visit a genocidal ethnostate.
And I’ll get downvoted for tone.
A United Ireland to many Republicans is in my opinion, a projection of their own insecurity of their identity. They want to distance themselves from Britain as much as possible. They want this misty-eyed vision of everyone speaking Gaelic, OO banned, everyone playing Gaelic Football etc An authoritarian Gaelic state basically. Manifesting also with the likes of the big push for Gaelic signage everywhere in a country where 0.3% use it as a main language.
But Britain has had a huge influence on Ireland whether Irish people want to accept that or not. You’re speaking English, many town squares were designed by Brits, the Queen’s colleges etc Britain is undoubtedly a part of Irish culture now.
A United Ireland without any cultural compromise towards unionism, be it the flag, be it the anthem…wouldn’t be a United Ireland.
It would be a Divided Ireland, a potentially more politically toxic place than this island we all share.
This is what must be avoided. Compromise is the only key to political success.
We cannot have a United Ireland where the OO is banned and Marxist authoritarian republican politics rules the roost. But that is the pipe-dream of many Republicans.
It could be a chance for us all to form a new shared cultural identity on a new Island, (with a new name?), leaving behind traditional notions of what’s Irish and what’s British. But for that to happen. Compromise would be required.
Good God, I’m so fucking bored of this. 100+ yrs of the same question, with no-one preparing any plan for a United Ireland and what it might look like. An island full of unserious people.
Fintan is a pseudo intellectual who has always looked at Northern Ireland through the wrong end of a telescope. He has consistently gaslit the nationalist leaning people of Northern Ireland and represents a very old and increasingly irrelevent south Dublin view of the future of Ireland.
One of his main points is the conintued use of the so called “cost’ of unification. An estimate based on a completely flawed study by none other than John Fitzgerald. A FG economist who famously predicted a boom for Ireland a week before the economy crashed. Commissioned by a think tank who are anti-constitutional.
Read Fintan weekly in his IT column and you start to understand how he is ultimately a very narrow minded man who is never open to new thinking and uses his column to entrench himself further.
The republic will join forces with the north and form a new country. We will all share a new future and there is nothing to say it will not be a massive economic success over time. I for one look forward to it and I look forward to the vote showing most rational people will support it. There will always be resistance to change. There will still be Fintans out there trying to come off as a deep thinker by parroting overly simplistic takes on politics.
Take what he says with a pinch of salt.
By most accounts, Fintan’s made an absolute killing, pardon the pun, flogging Northern Ireland’s misery like a travelling trauma salesman. He’s built a whole career out of sighing meaningfully over other people’s pain, peering at the past through his cosy Southern lens and calling it insight. There he is again, the ghoulish referee. Pontificating over unification – flitting in to drain for the last drop of relevance.
And then we have Slugger O’Toole, that self-styled “forum for balanced debate” that went full EastEnders a while back. Remember the great contributor exodus? Writers bolting faster than Sinn Féin’s press team after a gaffe. The much-trumpeted moderation rule, “play the ball, not the man,” only seemed to apply if you were already on the home team. Critics called it a “Unionist-free zone,” while others swore it had evolved from politely nationalist to full-on evangelical for the Republic, with a touch of neo-right posturing for flair.
Naturally, Channel 4, in its infinite metropolitan wisdom, decided to splash taxpayer cash on it. Because what better way to spend British money than propping up a Republican blog in sensible shoes pretending to be the BBC?
You almost have to admire the brass neck. A whole cottage industry of professional mourners and moral referees milking the past for clicks, grants and book deals, then clutching their pearls the second anyone points out the grift.
Meh..
Why is the flag always brought up as something that would have to be replaced? What in their minds is the orange on the flag about?
Jesus that’s going to be a tiresome listen with absolutely nothing added to the conversation that was being had 20 years ago.
Oh look! Another over confident South Dublin journo talking “common sense” about somewhere he hasn’t spent a wet week in.
One vote more than the rest. That’s all that counts. The rest is just pseudo nonsense noise
Tbh, if I was a voter in the republic, after the unionist antics of this week, I wouldn’t want them part of my country either.
There’s bigotry and then there’s… that. Who would want anything to do with that?
Actual human beings are going to spend money and time on a book written by Finan O’Toole and Sam McBride.
I’m with the New Ireland camp , I’m sick of the consensus North and South on this Island, mediocrity is an aspiration. The lack of imagination by the general public and people who are supposed to do stuff is soul sucking . I came back to educate my kid , probably the only plus side of the place, once that is done I’ll most likely leave ,again.
“if you were you come down from space..” as yes let’s start with that idea so we stop listening to what else you have to say lol
O’Toole is typical of a clique of self styled analysts who has spent his working life as a professional spectator. He should never get attention beyond his own in group.
I always wanted a United ireland. Until I witnessed how idiotic the citizens in the republic acted during Covid. The difference in the mask wearing and compliance/ submission between the north and south was actually unreal. Let us be our own county in the North of Ireland.
Surprisingly thoughtful discussion.
Belfast and Derry seem to me to be cities with an enormous growth potential, NI no offense intended seems like a forgotten corner of the UK.
Suffice to say things would change massively for NI in terms of priority and attention from a UI government.
The South is soaked in FDI money, probably more than the economy can really sustain.
To overnight be able to add two substantial cities another few hundred thousand people who could be plugged into to the mix, implies a genuinely huge economic potential, potential sea change for NIs prospects and indeed there’s both an opportunity and an opportunity cost in failing to tap that potential industrial base.
Flags and feelings aside if I were in the six counties I’d prefer the opportunities that come with a UI in the EU with the let’s face it, enormously successful FDI model of the Republic applied to NIs latent economic base.
It’s a bit of a no brainer.
I hate partionists, especially Irish ones.
When I look at the republic I see nothing attractive: It’s a literal narco state, and you would need the Americans in at this point to separate cartel and state.
21 comments
1.03 / “this is about uniting people, not territory“
Both of them make very valid points.
The United Ireland debate is far more complex than any of us truly understand and for that reason I think it could/would be a huge mistake if it were rushed to a vote.
Lot of people want a Republican Ireland not a united one.
I doubt they’ll highlight the neoliberal hellscape that the Current model is, 30 murdered women, girls forced to wear skirts, main water source is contaminated for years thanks to moronic farming practices, politicians offer thoughts and prayers whilst they visit a genocidal ethnostate.
And I’ll get downvoted for tone.
A United Ireland to many Republicans is in my opinion, a projection of their own insecurity of their identity. They want to distance themselves from Britain as much as possible. They want this misty-eyed vision of everyone speaking Gaelic, OO banned, everyone playing Gaelic Football etc An authoritarian Gaelic state basically. Manifesting also with the likes of the big push for Gaelic signage everywhere in a country where 0.3% use it as a main language.
But Britain has had a huge influence on Ireland whether Irish people want to accept that or not. You’re speaking English, many town squares were designed by Brits, the Queen’s colleges etc Britain is undoubtedly a part of Irish culture now.
A United Ireland without any cultural compromise towards unionism, be it the flag, be it the anthem…wouldn’t be a United Ireland.
It would be a Divided Ireland, a potentially more politically toxic place than this island we all share.
This is what must be avoided. Compromise is the only key to political success.
We cannot have a United Ireland where the OO is banned and Marxist authoritarian republican politics rules the roost. But that is the pipe-dream of many Republicans.
It could be a chance for us all to form a new shared cultural identity on a new Island, (with a new name?), leaving behind traditional notions of what’s Irish and what’s British. But for that to happen. Compromise would be required.
Good God, I’m so fucking bored of this. 100+ yrs of the same question, with no-one preparing any plan for a United Ireland and what it might look like. An island full of unserious people.
Fintan is a pseudo intellectual who has always looked at Northern Ireland through the wrong end of a telescope. He has consistently gaslit the nationalist leaning people of Northern Ireland and represents a very old and increasingly irrelevent south Dublin view of the future of Ireland.
One of his main points is the conintued use of the so called “cost’ of unification. An estimate based on a completely flawed study by none other than John Fitzgerald. A FG economist who famously predicted a boom for Ireland a week before the economy crashed. Commissioned by a think tank who are anti-constitutional.
Read Fintan weekly in his IT column and you start to understand how he is ultimately a very narrow minded man who is never open to new thinking and uses his column to entrench himself further.
The republic will join forces with the north and form a new country. We will all share a new future and there is nothing to say it will not be a massive economic success over time. I for one look forward to it and I look forward to the vote showing most rational people will support it. There will always be resistance to change. There will still be Fintans out there trying to come off as a deep thinker by parroting overly simplistic takes on politics.
Take what he says with a pinch of salt.
By most accounts, Fintan’s made an absolute killing, pardon the pun, flogging Northern Ireland’s misery like a travelling trauma salesman. He’s built a whole career out of sighing meaningfully over other people’s pain, peering at the past through his cosy Southern lens and calling it insight. There he is again, the ghoulish referee. Pontificating over unification – flitting in to drain for the last drop of relevance.
And then we have Slugger O’Toole, that self-styled “forum for balanced debate” that went full EastEnders a while back. Remember the great contributor exodus? Writers bolting faster than Sinn Féin’s press team after a gaffe. The much-trumpeted moderation rule, “play the ball, not the man,” only seemed to apply if you were already on the home team. Critics called it a “Unionist-free zone,” while others swore it had evolved from politely nationalist to full-on evangelical for the Republic, with a touch of neo-right posturing for flair.
Naturally, Channel 4, in its infinite metropolitan wisdom, decided to splash taxpayer cash on it. Because what better way to spend British money than propping up a Republican blog in sensible shoes pretending to be the BBC?
You almost have to admire the brass neck. A whole cottage industry of professional mourners and moral referees milking the past for clicks, grants and book deals, then clutching their pearls the second anyone points out the grift.
Meh..
Why is the flag always brought up as something that would have to be replaced? What in their minds is the orange on the flag about?
Jesus that’s going to be a tiresome listen with absolutely nothing added to the conversation that was being had 20 years ago.
Oh look! Another over confident South Dublin journo talking “common sense” about somewhere he hasn’t spent a wet week in.
One vote more than the rest. That’s all that counts. The rest is just pseudo nonsense noise
Tbh, if I was a voter in the republic, after the unionist antics of this week, I wouldn’t want them part of my country either.
There’s bigotry and then there’s… that. Who would want anything to do with that?
Actual human beings are going to spend money and time on a book written by Finan O’Toole and Sam McBride.
I’m with the New Ireland camp , I’m sick of the consensus North and South on this Island, mediocrity is an aspiration. The lack of imagination by the general public and people who are supposed to do stuff is soul sucking . I came back to educate my kid , probably the only plus side of the place, once that is done I’ll most likely leave ,again.
“if you were you come down from space..” as yes let’s start with that idea so we stop listening to what else you have to say lol
O’Toole is typical of a clique of self styled analysts who has spent his working life as a professional spectator. He should never get attention beyond his own in group.
I always wanted a United ireland. Until I witnessed how idiotic the citizens in the republic acted during Covid. The difference in the mask wearing and compliance/ submission between the north and south was actually unreal. Let us be our own county in the North of Ireland.
Surprisingly thoughtful discussion.
Belfast and Derry seem to me to be cities with an enormous growth potential, NI no offense intended seems like a forgotten corner of the UK.
Suffice to say things would change massively for NI in terms of priority and attention from a UI government.
The South is soaked in FDI money, probably more than the economy can really sustain.
To overnight be able to add two substantial cities another few hundred thousand people who could be plugged into to the mix, implies a genuinely huge economic potential, potential sea change for NIs prospects and indeed there’s both an opportunity and an opportunity cost in failing to tap that potential industrial base.
Flags and feelings aside if I were in the six counties I’d prefer the opportunities that come with a UI in the EU with the let’s face it, enormously successful FDI model of the Republic applied to NIs latent economic base.
It’s a bit of a no brainer.
I hate partionists, especially Irish ones.
When I look at the republic I see nothing attractive: It’s a literal narco state, and you would need the Americans in at this point to separate cartel and state.
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