The Epstein case: The power of testimony • FRANCE 24 English

The Epstein case: The power of testimony • FRANCE 24 English

[Music] Hello, I’m Annette Young and welcome to the 51% show about women reshaping our world. Today we’re focusing on the power of testimony. And nowhere is that more evident than in the case of the late Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted pedophile. His crimes along with those of his longtime associate Gileain Maxwell who’s currently behind bars continue to have farreaching consequences to this very day. In a moment, I’ll be talking to Jess Michaels, herself, a victim of rape by Epstein, and Luchia Osborne Crowley, a journalist who covered the Gilelay Maxwell trial. But this story first got worldwide attention thanks to the testimony of Virginia Duayra who was among the first victims to publicly accuse Epstein of trafficking her for sex. Now just months after she took her own life at 41 years old. The publication of her postumous memoir has caused shock waves for many of those mentioned in the book including one British prince. Virginia Duay has taken down a prince. Those are the words of the victim’s brother in the wake of the former Prince Andrews fall from royal status. King Charles III’s decision to strip his brother of his title and spacious home are being seen as a direct result of Jupy’s memoir published 6 months after she took her own life. A statement from Buckingham Palace reads, “Their majesty’s utmost sympathies have been and will remain with the victims and survivors of any and all forms of abuse. In Nobody’s Girl, Juy maintains allegations she had sex with the then British royal on three separate occasions, having been trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein and Guilain Maxwell as a minor. Allegations that Andrew continues to deny. In 2022, though, he paid her a multi-million dollar settlement, closing the civil case against him. The California native waved her right to anonymity to speak out about what she had endured at the hands of Epstein. And even after the criminal case against him ended in 2019 because he had been found dead in his jail cell, Jafrey was still determined to bring the truth to light. I was recruited at a very young age from Mara Lago and entrapped in a world that I didn’t understand. And I’ve been fighting that very world to this day. And I won’t stop fighting. I will never be silenced until these people are brought to justice. Maxwell Epstein’s key accomplice and ex-girlfriend was convicted in 2021 on federal sex trafficking and conspiracy charges and is serving a 20-year sentence in Florida. While Du Frey’s allegations are echoed by dozens of women, Epstein was only ever found guilty of procuring a minor for prostitution in 2008, for which he served just a year in a low security facility. Epstein was known to have enjoyed a close friendship with Donald Trump, something that the US president has played down in recent years. I did have a falling out a long time ago. Uh the reason doesn’t make any difference, frankly, but I haven’t spoken to him in probably 15 years or more. Trump went so far as to say the files containing evidence of Epstein’s numerous sexual assaults should be made public. It was one of his 2024 campaign promises. Now, many survivors of Epstein’s crimes and American lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are advocating for the files release, something he now firmly opposes. I call it the Epstein hoax. Now, watching that report with me from Newer England in the US is Jess Michaels herself a victim of rape by Epstein and Luchia Osborne Crowley, a journalist and author of The Lasting Harm, written about the process of covering Gileain Maxwell’s trial. And a reminder to any viewer watching that this conversation may serve as a trigger for anyone who’s been a victim of sexual violence. Firstly, thanks to both of you for giving me some of your time. Jess, let me start with you. Would you mind telling me about your encounter with Jeffrey Epstein? In 1991, I was a successful professional dancer. I was thriving in my life with fabulous relationships. I was traveling all over the world. I was I was living my dreams. And when I was um when I returned back from Tokyo, from a job in Tokyo, my roommate was telling me all about a wealthy Wall Street guy that she was working for. And over the next couple of months, she then introduced me to him. I met him for an interview at his Madison Avenue office. And then I was invited to his penthouse the following week as a follow-up. And it was there that I was raped. And I tell my story publicly because when I was raped, I froze. And back in 1991, what I understood about the laws was that rape was only determined by how much you resisted, how much you said no. because I froze in 1991. I believed it was my fault. I thought I was stupid. And that very vibrant and confident and successful young girl launching into the world at 22 into self-consciousness and fear, isolation, and uh lived that way and developed post-traumatic stress disorder for 30 years. Jess, even though you haven’t had your day in court yet, do you think a woman’s testimony carries far more weight now than it did before the Me Too movement? That’s a great question. I I do think that people are listening and there is validation. I think to a degree and I believe that it is this Epstein case that is actually furthering the idea that we should have been listening to women all along when they’ve shared their stories. So I I think it carries a little bit more power and we have so far to go because as I understand some laws are only just now changing in France around consent and as I said the laws back in 1991 said it was only dependent on how much I resisted and said no. So I I think we’re far off from laws changing but I think we’re listening to women a little bit more. And Luchia, even for women to come forward at this point of time, it’s still a very traumatic process, isn’t it? Absolutely. Um, the way that our society still unfortunately views rape and sexual abuse means that that there is so much shame and stigma around this issue and that makes it both difficult to come forward and incredibly retraumatizing when we do come forward. And that is a really really big problem. That’s um one of the things that I think most needs to change uh before we see real justice in cases like this because because we need to create a world in which it is safe for these victims to come forward and tell the truth. And we saw that here in France in the case of Jazelle Pelico, a 73year-old grandmother where there was filmed evidence and clearly the accusations proved to be correct. But even she underwent very harsh questioning at the hands of the defendant’s lawyers. And that’s a a really good example of of the some of the problems with the criminal justice system in terms of of these offenses because even when victims do come forward and do get their day in court, um they are subject to often very very shaming tactics at the hands of defense lawyers which I as someone who is legally trained really believe that we can and should change. There are certain types of questions that I think defense lawyers should not be allowed to ask. uh victim survivors of these kinds of crimes uh because it is incredibly ret-raumatizing and I know that uh those who testified at Glen Maxwell’s trial uh suffered incredibly from the retraumatization process of that trial and Jess with that in mind how hard was it for you to tell your story publicly initially I started trying to tell my story and found that it was too much and then I backed off so it’s it’s been a a slow process of being able to even address the fact that I had been raped and how devastated my life was after it. There’s a there’s a lot of selfhonesty and therapy that is um is hard to get through before you feel safe enough. And that’s I actually want to go back to what uh Lucia said about safety. We may have our testimony may have greater weight now, but I don’t know that we have greater safety yet for survivors to come forward. So, we’re we’re saying our stories. People are listening, but it doesn’t mean that we’re getting more justice. I mean, incremental. Luchia, the involvement of Gileain Maxwell in this horrific story reveals that even women, though not very often, can also be the perpetrator of horrific sexual violence. This is a really really important point that all of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Gileain Maxwell um really really want people to know is is that she was culpable that to to them they they were betrayed and abused by her as much as they were by him. And we see a lot of people kind of trying to I guess make excuses for her. But we do, it’s it’s really important that we recognize her role in this because actually um what prosecutors said at trial and what we know the jury ultimately accepted is that she was a really crucial part of this sex trafficking ring in many ways. Um what the prosecutors were saying is that it would not have worked without her because she as a woman uh her role was to to gain the trust of of the victims that she then groomed um in a way that perhaps Jeffrey Epstein as a middle-aged man couldn’t have at that time. Certainly not going into high schools or middle schools. Um so her her role uh it really can’t be overstated how important it is that we acknowledge that that women do do this um and that there are many stories where there are women who who play these roles. Jess Virginia paid the ultimate price in the end committing suicide in April but her bravery lives on. What lessons can we draw from this horrendous episode where young vulnerable women were subjected to such appalling abuse by extremely powerful men? First, I I have to say this. Virginia Dupra is one of the women that saved my life. If she hadn’t come forward in that 2018 piece in the Miami Herald, I don’t know that I would have ever addressed my own rape and actually gotten help. And it was her continued fearless voice to stand up to to powerful men that really taught me so much about what being an advocate can mean. And so I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for her for many reasons. And I think that is actually the lesson that I am learning that even when I feel scared, I know somehow that’s going to maybe influence someone else to be brave enough to tell their story. that that as we tell our stories, we are actually shaping things changing. And Virginia Dra was that bright light doing it first. Jess, your final thoughts? I believe that it’s conversations like this that will help advance this this issue and concern. Uh we don’t have battered men’s shelters everywhere. We have battered women’s shelters everywhere. So, every time we have one of these conversations, I feel like we’re taking that tiny step forward. So, I want to thank you. Uh, I want to thank you for highlighting Virginia. Um, her story is impactful and I believe is going to make all the difference in how powerful testimony changes this issue. I’m afraid that’s all we have time for. I want to thank both my guests, Jess, and with me in the studio, Luchia Osborne Crowley. Thank you to both of you. And that’s it for this edition. So until our next show, bye for now. [Music]

In a special edition, we focus on the power of testimony and nowhere is that more evident than in the case of the late Jepseffrey Epstein, the convicted paedophile. His crimes, and those of his longtime associate Ghislaine Maxwell – who’s currently behind bars – continue to have far-reaching consequences to this very day. This as Buckingham Palace announces that Andrew will be stripped of his Prince title following allegations of his friendship with Epstein. Annette Young talks to Jess Michaels, herself a survivor of rape by Epstein and Lucia Osborne-Crowley, a journalist and author who covered the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. 
#epstein #maxwell #victims

Read more about this story in our article: https://f24.my/BX8e.y

🔔 Subscribe to France 24 now: https://f24.my/YTen
🔴 LIVE – Watch FRANCE 24 English 24/7 here: https://f24.my/YTliveEN

🌍 Read the latest International News and Top Stories: https://www.france24.com/en/

Like us on Facebook: https://f24.my/FBen
Follow us on X: https://f24.my/Xen
Bluesky: https://f24.my/BSen and Threads: https://f24.my/THen
Browse the news in pictures on Instagram: https://f24.my/IGen
Discover our TikTok videos: https://f24.my/TKen
Get the latest top stories on Telegram: https://f24.my/TGen