Holding Space for Everything ‘Wicked’ with Gregory Maguire

“Wicked” author Gregory Maguire made a rare public appearance at Pope Auditorium on Thursday, Oct. 23 for a talk hosted by Fordham’s Center on Religion and Culture about “Wicked,” spiritual and creative life, and his latest novel “Elphie.” 

Before the event, students, faculty and guests formed a line that wrapped around the Lowenstein lobby into the tunnel hallways in hopes of receiving a copy of “Elphie.” The talk was originally scheduled to take place in Lowenstein’s 12th-floor lounge but was later upgraded to Pope Auditorium due to high demand.

Maguire was born and raised in Albany, NY. He is the fourth youngest of seven children and has been Catholic his entire life. In 2004, Maguire married his husband, Andy Newman, in one of the first legal gay marriages in Massachusetts. The couple has since adopted three children. 

“I decided I needed to write about how people use language in order to legitimize their right to belittle somebody else or even to kill them.” Gregory Maguire, Author of “Wicked”

When Maguire published “Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West” in 1995 at the age of 41, the book was not an instant success. Maguire referred to the novel as a “sleeper hit” that slowly gained popularity. His patience was rewarded with Stephen Schwartz’s Broadway musical adaptation and Jon M. Chu’s movie adaptation — 30 years later, “Wicked” is everywhere.

Writing about the Wicked Witch of the West was not Maguire’s first idea for an adult novel. He was initially focused on the power of language to invoke and justify violence. When living in London in the early 1990s, he saw headlines in the Daily Mirror newspaper that disturbed him.

“I remember walking through Central London and seeing … the Daily Mirror, one of the rag presses, saying, ‘Saddam Hussein: The Next Hitler,’ in giant, giant letters.” Maguire wondered about the possibility of another Hitler and what would happen if nobody intervened. 

“Nobody knows why she’s wicked. She doesn’t even have a name. They just call her with a capital ‘W’ Wicked.” Gregory Maguire

Upon further reflection, Maguire was struck by the use of the word Hitler and how it made him fearful and ready to act. 

“I decided I needed to write about how people use language in order to legitimize their right to belittle somebody else or even to kill them,” Maguire said.

This idea did not last long. Shortly after, Maguire said he experienced a vision akin to a religious apparition — it was from Margaret Hamilton, the actress who played the Wicked Witch of the West in the 1939 film adaptation of “The Wizard of Oz.”

“Everybody knows who the Wicked Witch of the West is. Nobody knows why she’s wicked. She doesn’t even have a name. They just call her with a capital ‘W’ Wicked,” he said. “And I thought, ‘There’s the answer to my question about who is an evil person. If I write about this character, I will be able to go anywhere I want with her because I have studied.’”

Exploring the Wicked Witch of the West gave Maguire a new sense of freedom because he no longer had to remain historically accurate. 

Maguire sought to change the Wicked Witch of the West’s narrative from a one-dimensional vengeful villain to a three-dimensional person with a name — Elphaba.

In Baum’s “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz,” the Wicked Witch of the West was the villain of the story, while Dorothy was the protagonist. Readers never truly know the Wicked Witch of the West’s motivations for wanting to steal Dorothy’s silver slippers or why she rules Winkie Country and has an army of animals. 

The 1939 film adaptation “The Wizard of Oz” is largely the same. While it fleshes out the Wicked Witch of the West’s vengeful quest against Dorothy — Dorothy killed the Wicked Witch of the East and took her ruby slippers — her character is still undeveloped. There’s a motive for her vendetta against Dorothy, but she is still portrayed as inherently wicked.

Maguire sought to change the Wicked Witch of the West’s narrative from a one-dimensional vengeful villain to a three-dimensional person with a name — Elphaba. By doing this, Maguire honors Baum’s original characters while also making them his own. 

“I tried not to besmirch. I tried not to make too much fun of any of them. I tried to make them even recognizable to admirers of the 1939 film and of the novels, but I still made them more complex characters, all of them, than they were in the children’s stories,” Maguire said. 

“You can’t abandon her. And you can’t use her. You can’t hijack her life to prove your intellectual points about what moral monsters are.” Gregory Maguire

Maguire’s initial intention was to present Elphaba as a wicked figure because that was what he wanted to do with his original idea about Hitler. As Maguire continued to write, especially about Elphaba’s early childhood, he realized her humanity despite her monstrous green features, which she had no control over. 

“You can’t abandon her. And you can’t use her. You can’t hijack her life to prove your intellectual points about what moral monsters are,” Maguire said. “Instead, you have to be a journalist … you just have to follow behind her in her life … you owe it to this human creature to allow her to live her life in some amount of freedom. And don’t make her carry your burdens. Make her live her own burdens and record them.”

“Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West” does exactly what the title suggests. During Elphaba’s youth, her family was ashamed of her green skin and she was socially ostracized. Elphaba found comfort in her nanny, a Bear who provided her love and support, while her father favored her younger sister Nessarose. Still, Elphaba remained a curious child whose intellect continued to flourish.

At 17, Elphaba left home to attend Shiz University, where she roomed with Galinda Upland — soon to become Glinda. At Shiz, Elphaba’s curiosity was her greatest asset as she became an assistant to Dr. Dillamond, a Goat professor, who was researching the difference between humans, animals and talking Animals to fight for animal rights.

The discrimination against Animals awakens Elphaba to social injustice. She commits herself to the animal rights movement after Dr. Dillamond is murdered and the Wizard refuses to intervene. Critics of Elphaba’s engagement with the cause call her wicked, and the insult sticks. This serves as the finale for Act One of Schwartz’s musical as well as the conclusion of Chu’s “Wicked.”

Maguire attests that his writing is driven by awe, which he describes as the root of fantasy literature and religion. 

Maguire said, “We are given the chance to experience the act of experience anew because of the subtle changes and complexities and the foreign aspects of the magic world.” 

Angela O’Donnell, English professor and associate director of the Francis and Curran Center for American Catholic Studies, connected Maguire’s genre of fantasy with a spiritual exercise of imagination.

“When you write fantasy, you get to create a new universe. That’s what God did, right?” O’Donnell said. “It allows for fresh understanding and envisionment of the human condition and the human circumstance.” 

“As long as you have persuaded me that you know why I wrote this book. Then you use the skills at your disposal to make it into the best story you can.” Gregory Maguire

When it came to optioning his novel for adaptation, Maguire kept an open mind. He believed in giving the adaptor freedom as long as they understood why he wrote the novel, and he wanted people to have the same freedom he did when adapting from Braum’s original novel. 

“As long as you have persuaded me that you know why I wrote this book. Then you use the skills at your disposal to make it into the best story you can. What you leave in, you leave in; what you take out, you take out,” Maguire said.

Schwartz sold Maguire on his vision for a “Wicked” musical one afternoon in Connecticut. During their discussion, Maguire recounted how Schwartz said, “You have to picture this on a stage, even if it’s about 28 cast members. If somebody steps to the front of the stage and the music comes up … somebody begins to sing.”

For emphasis, Maguire moved downstage and began singing a rendition of “The Wizard and I,” which he remembered Schwartz doing.

“Unlimited. My future is unlimited … I just had a vision almost like a prophecy. I know it sounds truly crazy. True, the vision’s hazy. But I swear someday there’ll be a celebration throughout Oz, that’s all to do with … Idina Menzel,” Maguire sang.

The Menzel bit at the end was Maguire teasing. Nonetheless, the intentions for Maguire and the audience were clear. Like Maguire said, “(Schwartz) said people will be with the singer. They will be there in her heart.” 

“No One Mourns the Wicked” contains the central themes of the novel, play and movie, which are encapsulated in Glinda’s line, “Are people born Wicked? Or do they have Wickedness thrust upon them?” 

Schwartz’s last selling point to Maguire was the song title for the opening scene: “No One Mourns the Wicked.” To that, Maguire said, “I could tell that he knew why I had written that book.”

“No One Mourns the Wicked” contains the central themes of the novel, play and movie, which are encapsulated in Glinda’s line, “Are people born Wicked? Or do they have Wickedness thrust upon them?” 

Glinda’s line raises a similar question to the one Maguire asked himself when writing Elphaba’s story. He needed to remember her humanity first, rather than the title that she has been given.

The musical opened on Broadway in 2003. The music was written and composed by Schwartz and the script by Winnie Holzman. Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth originated the roles of Elphaba and Glinda. The original production was nominated for 10 Tony Awards in 2004 and won three —“Best Actress” for Menzel, “Best Scenic Design” and “Best Costume Design.” The musical is the fourth-longest-running show on Broadway and has made over a billion dollars in revenue. The show has gone on to have long-running production in London’s West End, as well as touring the U.S., U.K./Ireland, Australia and other countries.

Chu’s film adaptation expands on Schwartz’s musical by incorporating more of Maguire’s original source material. Chu’s adaptation was originally announced as a single movie, but it was later announced to be split into two parts, “Wicked” and “Wicked: For Good,” to avoid condensing the story. The first film serves as the first act of the musical, and the second film as Act Two. 

The film features Ariana Grande as Glinda, Michelle Yeoh as Madame Morrible, Jeff Goldblum as the Wizard, Jonathan Bailey as Fiyero and Peter Dinklage as Dr. Dillamond, as well as cameos from Menzel, Chenoweth and other Broadway stars. 

Cynthia Erivo, a Black actress, leads the film as Elphaba, a role that has primarily been played by white actresses over the years. This year, Lencia Kebede stars as Elphaba in the Broadway production of “Wicked,” making her the first Black actress to assume the role full-time in the play’s Broadway history. 

The casting of a Black actress adds even more weight to Elphaba’s story, where she is cast aside and used as a pawn for others’ personal gains. The movie evokes the Black experience of feeling like the “only one” in primarily white institutions. As the only one, Elphaba is used for the institution’s gain. For example, Madame Morrible and the Wizard use Elphaba’s magic to suppress animals. When Elphaba expresses anger about the situation, they demonize her because she can no longer be their token. The film adaptation of “Wicked” effectively illustrates these realities to the masses. 

“It’s wonderfully liberating to read a series of stories that are grounded in this sense of the individual, (who) in order to flourish, really needs to resist rather than just comply all the time with these limitations.” Angela O’Donnell, English Professor and Associate Director of the Curran Center for American Catholic Studies

It’s powerful to see a Black woman, like Erivo, play Elphaba and encapsulate the Black experience on the big screen. The visibility connects to the original intent of Maguire’s novel. O’Donnell said that, with “Wicked,” Maguire was aiming to “write a literature of liberation.” 

“It’s wonderfully liberating to read a series of stories that are grounded in this sense of the individual, (who) in order to flourish, really needs to resist rather than just comply all the time with these limitations,” O’Donnell said.

Maguire spoke about how he was inspired to write from his experiences within the Catholic Church and how readers have different experiences that influence their understanding of the story.

“We are shaped and formed by the forces against us,” Maguire said. “In ‘Wicked,’ particularly, but then following through all the other books … I wanted Oz to represent the world in which we live as this immense complexity of conflicting understanding systems.”

“Wicked: For Good” has ample room to expand on Act Two of the musical, which is approximately 45 minutes long. The film should pick up directly after “Defying Gravity” and Elphaba fleeing the Emerald City without Glinda. 

At the beginning of the talk, Maguire noted that he has avoided anything “Wicked: For Good” related, whether it was trailers, teasers or the “Dancing With the Stars” “Wicked”-themed night. He wants to go in blind. 

When part one of the “Wicked” movie began its roll-out, Maguire said he had watched everything leading up to the premiere.

“I felt I had seen design elements of every single scene released in the trailers … By the time I got to the movie, I felt like I’d sort of already partly digested it,” Maguire said.

This time around, he wants to go in with an empty stomach, so he can be surprised. 

“Wicked: For Good” will be in theaters on Nov. 21. As Act Two of the musical moves quickly, Chu will likely pull from Maguire’s book to fill in what happened off stage in the musical — viewers should expect more of Elphaba’s fight for Animal rights and Glinda’s transformation into the “Good Witch.”