Define toxic algorithm, I agree with the sentiment but every time this is given as an answer it never explains what the definition of toxic algorithm is
Think it is the wrong way round. It is adults who should be banned from Social Media. They are the ones doing the damage.
> All of the above may seem jarring to someone unacquainted with the specifics of how algorithms and other related technology and design influence behaviour
Its jarring to people very familiar with how algorithms work.
Fully agree with description of the problem, but banning “algorithms” firstly missattributes the problem to begin with, every time the call is for legislators to fix societal problems it ignores the fact that the legislators themselves are the problem and every time these campaigns are turned into hostile legislation that at worst are annoying (cookie banners) and at most actively dangerous (the fact that half the internet is banned in the UK)
Its also just an unworkable solution, it would require every company essentially open sourcing their entire infrastructure (which I am a big fan of, but not gonna happen), and make most platforms unusable, netflix has to be sorted by alphabet, the news sorted chronologically?
I do fully agree with:
> We need to promote non-profit, decentralised alternatives such as the non-profit German social media network [Mastodon](https://joinmastodon.org/about), as well as other public, non-profit, and democratic alternatives which focus on building community, connecting people, and supporting culture and community, rather than maximising profit at all costs.
This is what I have focused my career on, and I think its completely indefensible that politicians are still using twitter and the likes, I also think *all* goverment expenditure should be commons / open source (unless under very very specific exceptions). I think there are a lot things we can and should do, but I am not convinced that banning algorithms is a bit of a needless distraction.
The article is arguing to ban recommendation algorithms, which is a lot more sensible than 99% of the discussion on this topic. There is no such thing as evil algorithms. All they are doing is recommending things that drive engagement. But the things that drive engagement tend to be polarizing and rage bait, because that is what people click on. It is all very Vermilion Sands.
My problem is that it’s too overzealous, I think that stuff like YouTube and Twitch is a mistake
But we should still be holding them accountable more in general
Yeah the chances of any politician even understanding how social media algorithms work is nil. They’re just not a single line of code, it’s likely THOUSANDS in each platform. They are designed to feed you more of the content you’ve chosen to view. Can they be twisted? Yes but no more than the BBC board / newspapers set their ‘algorithms’ for content.
This slide towards authoritarianism by supressing young people is just…weird. Old people believing everything they see on social media (and choosing politicians based on it) is a FAR greater issue in the country.
This is actually a good idea.
Doomed to failure unless we **all** get off the apps
Like lecturing your bairn about the dangers of drink with a can of Tennent’s in your hand
All the reasons social media is bad for kids are the same reasons it’s bad for us
Disagree. Just classify the platforms as publishers and hold them accountable for what people post. They can then pack up and fuck off or they can moderate properly.
As long as you’re banning something though, eh?
Banning under-16s for social media is a PR friendly way of eroding online anonymity, and anyone who supports it is a useful idiot for authoritarianism.
Those algorithms funnelling that dangerous content to children is a far better grooming and radicalizing tool than any methods used in the past. The sooner we recognize how easy it is to implement those kinds of campaigns, the quicker we can develop ways to combat it, instead of ignoring it.
Banning toxic algorithms would be a nightmare to enforce.
Facebook etc would probably rather stop operating in the country than disclose exactly how they work.
( And yeah, I realise them leaving could be seen as a self-correcting problem by many. But would a majority of the electorate ? )
Ctrl+F “Scotland”
0 Results
!Mods
Its a shite half measure that wont work, will make everything worse and shred our right to privacy in the process.
Young people arent daft, and the measures used to lock down the porn websites so far have been so utterly pathetic I was literally able to use a template drivers licence off of google to bypass it, then use the photomode of cyberpunk 2077 to bypass another’s facial age estimation system. Because its that or you handing over the most idealised identity fraud information every criminal has been dreaming of getting their hands onto to private companies of varying sizes and national trustworthiness. And those estimation/ verification systems have already been breeched, within weeks of the “think of the children” under 18 porn ban the provider for age verification that Discord uses had their server breached.
Whats we need is a ban on algorithmic content delivery. No more magical algorithims that take you from watching a youtube letsplay to Charlie Kirk to outright neonazi content. No more magical algorithims that take young kids from Cartoon clips to Elsagate. No more facebook/ Twitter feeds that are nothing but AI slop and ragebait designed to keep you on the platform for as long as they physically can.
Maybe parents could supervise their kid, no?
The wrong measure
Should, can’t.
The algorithm is the money maker, the lobbying to oppose this would be completely insurmountable. They’re addictive by design, exploitative and dangerous by design. That’s how the money is made, Facebook and others would view such a ban as a threat to their existence. It would be a hundred years of legal challenges, propaganda and bribery.
22 comments
I think we should do both actually.
https://preview.redd.it/gkg3lcm5f17g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=11d530d4bb7af0fcf82b99578cd2fbbe71604e47
“We’re losing whole generations”.
Define toxic algorithm, I agree with the sentiment but every time this is given as an answer it never explains what the definition of toxic algorithm is
Think it is the wrong way round. It is adults who should be banned from Social Media. They are the ones doing the damage.
> All of the above may seem jarring to someone unacquainted with the specifics of how algorithms and other related technology and design influence behaviour
Its jarring to people very familiar with how algorithms work.
Fully agree with description of the problem, but banning “algorithms” firstly missattributes the problem to begin with, every time the call is for legislators to fix societal problems it ignores the fact that the legislators themselves are the problem and every time these campaigns are turned into hostile legislation that at worst are annoying (cookie banners) and at most actively dangerous (the fact that half the internet is banned in the UK)
Its also just an unworkable solution, it would require every company essentially open sourcing their entire infrastructure (which I am a big fan of, but not gonna happen), and make most platforms unusable, netflix has to be sorted by alphabet, the news sorted chronologically?
I do fully agree with:
> We need to promote non-profit, decentralised alternatives such as the non-profit German social media network [Mastodon](https://joinmastodon.org/about), as well as other public, non-profit, and democratic alternatives which focus on building community, connecting people, and supporting culture and community, rather than maximising profit at all costs.
This is what I have focused my career on, and I think its completely indefensible that politicians are still using twitter and the likes, I also think *all* goverment expenditure should be commons / open source (unless under very very specific exceptions). I think there are a lot things we can and should do, but I am not convinced that banning algorithms is a bit of a needless distraction.
The article is arguing to ban recommendation algorithms, which is a lot more sensible than 99% of the discussion on this topic. There is no such thing as evil algorithms. All they are doing is recommending things that drive engagement. But the things that drive engagement tend to be polarizing and rage bait, because that is what people click on. It is all very Vermilion Sands.
My problem is that it’s too overzealous, I think that stuff like YouTube and Twitch is a mistake
But we should still be holding them accountable more in general
Yeah the chances of any politician even understanding how social media algorithms work is nil. They’re just not a single line of code, it’s likely THOUSANDS in each platform. They are designed to feed you more of the content you’ve chosen to view. Can they be twisted? Yes but no more than the BBC board / newspapers set their ‘algorithms’ for content.
This slide towards authoritarianism by supressing young people is just…weird. Old people believing everything they see on social media (and choosing politicians based on it) is a FAR greater issue in the country.
This is actually a good idea.
Doomed to failure unless we **all** get off the apps
Like lecturing your bairn about the dangers of drink with a can of Tennent’s in your hand
All the reasons social media is bad for kids are the same reasons it’s bad for us
Disagree. Just classify the platforms as publishers and hold them accountable for what people post. They can then pack up and fuck off or they can moderate properly.
As long as you’re banning something though, eh?
Banning under-16s for social media is a PR friendly way of eroding online anonymity, and anyone who supports it is a useful idiot for authoritarianism.
Those algorithms funnelling that dangerous content to children is a far better grooming and radicalizing tool than any methods used in the past. The sooner we recognize how easy it is to implement those kinds of campaigns, the quicker we can develop ways to combat it, instead of ignoring it.
Banning toxic algorithms would be a nightmare to enforce.
Facebook etc would probably rather stop operating in the country than disclose exactly how they work.
( And yeah, I realise them leaving could be seen as a self-correcting problem by many. But would a majority of the electorate ? )
Ctrl+F “Scotland”
0 Results
!Mods
Its a shite half measure that wont work, will make everything worse and shred our right to privacy in the process.
Young people arent daft, and the measures used to lock down the porn websites so far have been so utterly pathetic I was literally able to use a template drivers licence off of google to bypass it, then use the photomode of cyberpunk 2077 to bypass another’s facial age estimation system. Because its that or you handing over the most idealised identity fraud information every criminal has been dreaming of getting their hands onto to private companies of varying sizes and national trustworthiness. And those estimation/ verification systems have already been breeched, within weeks of the “think of the children” under 18 porn ban the provider for age verification that Discord uses had their server breached.
Whats we need is a ban on algorithmic content delivery. No more magical algorithims that take you from watching a youtube letsplay to Charlie Kirk to outright neonazi content. No more magical algorithims that take young kids from Cartoon clips to Elsagate. No more facebook/ Twitter feeds that are nothing but AI slop and ragebait designed to keep you on the platform for as long as they physically can.
Maybe parents could supervise their kid, no?
The wrong measure
Should, can’t.
The algorithm is the money maker, the lobbying to oppose this would be completely insurmountable. They’re addictive by design, exploitative and dangerous by design. That’s how the money is made, Facebook and others would view such a ban as a threat to their existence. It would be a hundred years of legal challenges, propaganda and bribery.
Comments are closed.