Blimey, how sad. However, I doubt he is alive anymore. The test makes sense, and must determine the outcome.
Yet another case where it’s all about the parents who can’t accept a grim outlook.
It is completely in his interest to determine if his brain is dead or not.
When he is inevitably found to be brain dead there’ll be another court case about switching the machines off.
I have a son the same age. Sitting here right now I can be rational.
If it were my son, I’d be a mess. I wouldn’t be rational. I’d be begging for one more sign. But I hope there’d be a system in place to protect my son from my grief. That system needs to stay rational, otherwise patients will be treated according to grief levels and that way madness lies.
What if a parent were to remain rational and turn off the machine, or decline it entirely, or deny heroic but futile measures in a case where resuscitation isn’t possible? Would the papers get hold of it and call them callous and cold? Look at these parents who gave up fast, rather than these heroes who kept fighting for years. It can’t become a contest, or a moral judgement.
The case is harrowing.
The problem is that these cases get hijacked by the same evangelical Christian rent-a-mobs who protest outside abortion clinics, who get into the parents’ heads and convince them that the experts don’t know what they’re doing. What they have done to this poor family is horrific, who will now never be able to come to terms with what has happened to their son and will never trust the medical profession again. All because some charlatans want to push their agenda and get their names in the papers.
How long before there’s an ‘Archie’s Army’ Facebook group sending death threats to the medical staff involved, a lá the last time this happened.
I just hope the poor lads’ organs can save some other children.
This is so sad, and exactly why I want my nurse sister to be the one to make decisions about me if I am unable. I think she would have a more realistic outlook, even if it hurts like hell to let go of someone you love.
I don’t get why this is a legal matter, when it should be a medical decision. The medical professionals are very clear that there is no chance of recovery, no chance of a meaningful quality of life, and thus further intensive medical treatment is unethical. This is a very sad decision, and I am sure it has not been made lightly.
However, the parents and the courts are now forcing (who exactly?) to continue what has to be consider unethical treatment: keeping a dead body artificially alive. This should not be a legal dispute – you cannot declare somebody alive using some bylaw.
This is not how medical autonomy works. You can refuse treatment, but you cannot demand treatment.
And the courts should not be able to force doctors to perform treatment against the professional judgement. We had that in the US with ivermectin, and it was a shit show.
No one wants to or should have to bury a child, especially one this young but let the kid be at peace. Surely it’s worse dragging out the inevitable?!
Upon reading about this via The Gurdian I searched for the word ‘christian’
>A campaign organisation called the Christian Legal Centre said it was supporting Archie’s family. Andrea Williams, its chief executive, said after the ruling: “This case raises the significant moral, legal and medical question as to when a person is dead.
This child is likely going to become the centre of a political and moral storm, whipped up by the media and abhorrent religious organisations whose sole interests are pushing their own agendas. The wikipedia page for this group lists some of their previous “work”
Rather than listen to the advice given by world class medical experts, his mother is instead taking to facebook and promising to livestream a prayer session. A few days ago she was begging for access to Elon musks brain chip to help his fight “on death row against the hospital”.
She is also, one could perhaps argue, breaching his privacy by posting picture of him from his hospital bed. Forcing his eyelids open to take picture showing eye dilation etc. She is also contributing to what could potentially lead to a large groundswell of discontent towards the hospital and its medical staff by posting comments such as:
>Can I just make clear that it’s nothing to do with leaving Arch in limbo why The Royal london want to perform test , it’s so they can turn off machines. Pls don’t be fooled . All palative care stops . 5 weeks and they have pushed me from day 3 telling me he’s brain dead even they he was still in induced coma . Physic or what
>Killers on death row awaiting execution get longer that my innocent little boys facing . Since day 3 whilst in an induced coma they have pushed for this .
I can not even begin to fathom the absolute terror and stress that his family are going through. To expect them to be able to make rational decisions against such a backdrop is almost impossible.
Which is why systems are in place to help. The hospital want this test performing to determine what happens next. If the brain-stem test indicates he isn’t brain dead then treatment plans can be formulated. The NHS will likely spare no cost to attempt to get this boy to recover, regardless the cost.
If, however, he is brain dead, then other decisions need to be made.
As horrible and blunt as this will sound, his parents need to allow this test to happen. They then have to choose. Do they let nature “take its course” and focus on spending as much time “with im” as possible between now and when he passes, or do they persue a course of action that will see his life become a wikipedia article filed under the Medical ethics cases – or given the inference that he may have attempted a ‘challenge’ he had seen online, the latest batshit crazy idea by Nadine Dorries to curtail social media organisations.
Christ, this is going to be the UK edition of the Jahi McMath case isn’t it.
My heart breaks for this poor boy and his family 💔
13 comments
Blimey, how sad. However, I doubt he is alive anymore. The test makes sense, and must determine the outcome.
Yet another case where it’s all about the parents who can’t accept a grim outlook.
It is completely in his interest to determine if his brain is dead or not.
When he is inevitably found to be brain dead there’ll be another court case about switching the machines off.
I have a son the same age. Sitting here right now I can be rational.
If it were my son, I’d be a mess. I wouldn’t be rational. I’d be begging for one more sign. But I hope there’d be a system in place to protect my son from my grief. That system needs to stay rational, otherwise patients will be treated according to grief levels and that way madness lies.
What if a parent were to remain rational and turn off the machine, or decline it entirely, or deny heroic but futile measures in a case where resuscitation isn’t possible? Would the papers get hold of it and call them callous and cold? Look at these parents who gave up fast, rather than these heroes who kept fighting for years. It can’t become a contest, or a moral judgement.
The case is harrowing.
The problem is that these cases get hijacked by the same evangelical Christian rent-a-mobs who protest outside abortion clinics, who get into the parents’ heads and convince them that the experts don’t know what they’re doing. What they have done to this poor family is horrific, who will now never be able to come to terms with what has happened to their son and will never trust the medical profession again. All because some charlatans want to push their agenda and get their names in the papers.
this kid has had some bad luck…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2774629/Boy-four-suffers-agonising-burns-Boots-pharmacy-gave-ear-drops-eye-infection.html
How long before there’s an ‘Archie’s Army’ Facebook group sending death threats to the medical staff involved, a lá the last time this happened.
I just hope the poor lads’ organs can save some other children.
This is so sad, and exactly why I want my nurse sister to be the one to make decisions about me if I am unable. I think she would have a more realistic outlook, even if it hurts like hell to let go of someone you love.
I don’t get why this is a legal matter, when it should be a medical decision. The medical professionals are very clear that there is no chance of recovery, no chance of a meaningful quality of life, and thus further intensive medical treatment is unethical. This is a very sad decision, and I am sure it has not been made lightly.
However, the parents and the courts are now forcing (who exactly?) to continue what has to be consider unethical treatment: keeping a dead body artificially alive. This should not be a legal dispute – you cannot declare somebody alive using some bylaw.
This is not how medical autonomy works. You can refuse treatment, but you cannot demand treatment.
And the courts should not be able to force doctors to perform treatment against the professional judgement. We had that in the US with ivermectin, and it was a shit show.
No one wants to or should have to bury a child, especially one this young but let the kid be at peace. Surely it’s worse dragging out the inevitable?!
Upon reading about this via The Gurdian I searched for the word ‘christian’
>A campaign organisation called the Christian Legal Centre said it was supporting Archie’s family. Andrea Williams, its chief executive, said after the ruling: “This case raises the significant moral, legal and medical question as to when a person is dead.
This child is likely going to become the centre of a political and moral storm, whipped up by the media and abhorrent religious organisations whose sole interests are pushing their own agendas. The wikipedia page for this group lists some of their previous “work”
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Legal_Centre
Rather than listen to the advice given by world class medical experts, his mother is instead taking to facebook and promising to livestream a prayer session. A few days ago she was begging for access to Elon musks brain chip to help his fight “on death row against the hospital”.
She is also, one could perhaps argue, breaching his privacy by posting picture of him from his hospital bed. Forcing his eyelids open to take picture showing eye dilation etc. She is also contributing to what could potentially lead to a large groundswell of discontent towards the hospital and its medical staff by posting comments such as:
>Can I just make clear that it’s nothing to do with leaving Arch in limbo why The Royal london want to perform test , it’s so they can turn off machines. Pls don’t be fooled . All palative care stops . 5 weeks and they have pushed me from day 3 telling me he’s brain dead even they he was still in induced coma . Physic or what
>Killers on death row awaiting execution get longer that my innocent little boys facing . Since day 3 whilst in an induced coma they have pushed for this .
I can not even begin to fathom the absolute terror and stress that his family are going through. To expect them to be able to make rational decisions against such a backdrop is almost impossible.
Which is why systems are in place to help. The hospital want this test performing to determine what happens next. If the brain-stem test indicates he isn’t brain dead then treatment plans can be formulated. The NHS will likely spare no cost to attempt to get this boy to recover, regardless the cost.
If, however, he is brain dead, then other decisions need to be made.
As horrible and blunt as this will sound, his parents need to allow this test to happen. They then have to choose. Do they let nature “take its course” and focus on spending as much time “with im” as possible between now and when he passes, or do they persue a course of action that will see his life become a wikipedia article filed under the Medical ethics cases – or given the inference that he may have attempted a ‘challenge’ he had seen online, the latest batshit crazy idea by Nadine Dorries to curtail social media organisations.
Christ, this is going to be the UK edition of the Jahi McMath case isn’t it.
My heart breaks for this poor boy and his family 💔