Britain needs new defence pact with Europe amid fears Trump won’t defend it from attack. Polling shows UK voters are concerned the US may not come to Britain’s aid in the event of an attack by Putin

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-defence-pact-europe-trump-nato-russia-b2891548.html

by ByGollie

48 comments

  1. Slight headline editorialisation – inserting country and attaching part of the byline to emphasise which national voting bloc for international readers.

    >
    > #Britain should join forces with Europe in a new defence pact because it can no longer trust Donald Trump’s America to defend it in the event of a military attack by Russia, voters believe.
    >
    > That is the stark outcome of a survey by The Independent to gauge the public’s reaction to dramatic changes in US foreign policy under Mr Trump and increasing hostility to Europe – including Britain – from Russia’s Vladimir Putin.

    >
    > A total of 55 per cent of British voters want a new UK/Europe defence alliance – without America – to guard against the threat from Putin, according to the JL Partners poll, while only 11 per cent oppose this plan.
    >
    > Such a move would mark a historic shift in defence policy with major diplomatic implications.
    >
    > Currently, the defence of Britain and Europe against the threat of attack depends on Nato, which was set up by European nations and the US in 1949 in the aftermath of the Second World War.

    >
    > Under Nato’s cornerstone Article 5, an attack on any member is treated as an attack on all. In practice, that pledge is underpinned by the huge military firepower of its biggest member, the US.
    >
    > However, America’s own commitment to Nato has come under question since the re-election of President Trump last year and his stance on the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
    >
    > Mr Trump has called European countries “weak”, repeatedly criticised them for not spending enough money on defence, and even threatened to ignore his Nato vow to defend them for not doing so if they are attacked.
    >
    > In addition, Mr Trump has been accused by some of siding with Russia – not Europe – in its war with Ukraine.
    >
    > He has promised to offer Ukraine Nato-style “Article 5-like” protection from further Russian attacks in the event of a ceasefire, but his refusal to go further has led some to question its value.
    >
    > In fact, the only time Nato’s Article 5 has been triggered was in defence of the US after the 9/11 attacks in 2001.

    > In recent weeks a series of major European figures have raised the alarm on this issue.
    >
    > Nato secretary general Mark Rutte warned its members to start ramping up preparations “for the scale of war our grandparents or great-grandparents endured”.
    >
    > His comments were echoed by the new head of MI6, Blaise Metreweli, who highlighted the growing menace from Russia, which she said was “testing us in the grey zone with tactics that are just below the threshold of war”, while defence minister Al Carns said the “shadow of war is knocking on Europe’s door”.
    >
    > Their comments reflect fears that Putin could follow his invasion of Ukraine with a new attack on Europe, such as the Baltic states.
    >
    > Russia has violated European airspace with fighter jets and drones, as well as carrying out cyber attacks and acts of sabotage.
    >
    > European countries already collaborate on defence issues via a number of organisations, such as the UK-led Joint Expeditionary Force, to guard against the threat from Russia in Norway and northern Europe.
    >
    > Furthermore, European nations are currently increasing their defence spending.
    >
    > But it will be many years before they are capable of defending themselves without relying on the US.
    >
    > James Johnson, of JL Partners, said: “The radical change in views on foreign policy from Donald Trump’s White House appears to have taken its toll on British voters.
    >
    > “Judging from our survey, voters have lost faith in the belief that if Britain or any of its European neighbours faces a real military threat, America will automatically come to its rescue.
    >
    > “They think Europe should take control of its own military protection to guarantee its safety.”
    >

  2. The UK and Europe already have a defence pact through NATO?

  3. Tell that to fucking Macron. I’m tired of EU members abusing the veto to sabotage the EU in favour of national interests (or in the case of Orbán, interests of an adversary)

  4. Pedofile Trump is the best advertisement for the European Union 🇪🇺

  5. Is Europe really going to be of much use though?

  7. As Ben Franklin said: “we must all hang together or we will all hang separately”.

    Do not trust Trump. France may get a president from the far right. Turkey seem to stick to Russia. Will AfD gain power in Germany? What’s left?

  8. Turnips promises aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

  9. What a waste of paper that would be. We’re in nato. We definitely don’t need one with the eu, they can’t even all agree to defend each other. They are in nato or neutral states.

    Don’t really care if we signed one, but this article calls it a dramatic shift. It would change nothing.

  10. We have the Joint Expeditionary Force which is specific to Northern Europe.

    We also need to beef up our own naval fleet but great progress is made on that already.

    But really we’re probably THE best defended and geographically safest country in Europe, we’re the last country that would need others to come to its defence. A population of 70 million on a sizeable island is an extremely formidable adversary.

  11. nobody believes in nato anymore, nuclear protection by usa is a hoax

    its just stick and carrot for usa foreign policy

    lets start a european defence alliance

  14. I wonder how many fish we’re going to have to cough up for the privilege this time. 

  17. Who exactly is going to attack the UK? Russia?

    Lmao. They can’t even take the land next door. They’re not attacking us.

    The UK (and Europe) should focus on the real biggest issue we face.

    Civilisational decline do to large scale demographic change.

    Instead, the EU just signalled it wants even more immigration from outside Europe.

    Madness.

  18. Realistically, what could Russia do against Britain, even without allies? They don’t have a fleet to speak of. Their air force is capable of bombing Ukraine, but Britain is much further away and has better air defenses. Their conventional forces are useless without a landing operation, which would be suicide without a navy and air superiority. They could use nuclear weapons and trade London for st Petersburg and Moscow, but that’s not in their interest either.

    All it would come down to is harassing shipping and the occasional missile attack.

  19. NATO needs to review its ‘all countries agree’ approach to decision making. It needs to >50% of voting. Otherwise they won’t act on shit. There would be bombs coming down around them and a country like Hungary be like let’s not retaliate.

  20. > UK voters are concerned the US may not come to Britain’s aid in the event of an attack by Putin

    Well, they should be. We all know how Trump works. We all know that if there is an attack he will not just help, he will see it as a great opportunity to blackmail your country into something beneficial for him.

  21. Well, I thought NATO is a defence pact? By the way, EU also is, implicitely.

  23. I think it’s the other way around. The EU needs a defence pact with the UK, I’d rather be neutral if the EU (France) insist on one way deals.
    If you want British war dead on the European plain, can you atleast not fuck us over in every other area. Cheers.

  24. Biggest concern frankly is that USA will actively assist Russia militarily in destroying Europe + UK. There doesn’t seem to be any future in which USA and Europe can be allies now.

  25. What attack? Another novichok poisoning, nuclear war, what? The Russians don’t have the capability to attack the UK in any meaningful way without getting buckets of sunshine back, which is why they concentrate on hacking, cybercrime and propaganda.

    We have our own nuclear deterrent. If the US didn’t come to its most staunch allies call after invoking Article 5 then NATO ceases to exist and the damage to the reputation of the US would be unfixable – they could never be trusted again.

    European countries in NATO would have to help and vice-a-versa.

  28. I don’t remember how many nuclear submarines the UK has ?

  29. If you Google the article 5 of NATO is quite lax and does not oblige members to get into a hot war against an aggressor. Europe wasn’t ever to be surely and completely defended by the us. It was mostly psychological reassurance.

  30. Trump has been downplaying NATO all year. It would be stupid for anyone to not be concerned

  31. The fascist American regime is balls deep in it with Putin. Putin/Ukraine from the east and trump/Greenland from the west.

    Bad things are coming.

  32. He has golf courses here, he will defend them. I don’t think UK is inline for direct confrontation in any case, the strategy has been to peel us away from the greater European bloc diminishing both of our power.

  33. Have you been to Britain? Nobodys invading that shit. Legit everyone is leaving. Lol

  34. The obvious answer is to elect a 12-year old girl as PM when we need assistance from the US and they’ll flock to our needs.

  35. So far, NATO has been working exactly as it’s supposed to, hence Ukraine is under attack, and the Baltic states are not. If Putin ever decides that NATO is no longer working, those will be the first ones hit.

  36. Only people who don’t believe this are our politicians who just will not spend or accept the US is now pretty much our enemy along with China and Russia etc

  37. Ffs all of UK 🇬🇧 and Europe 🇪🇺has a BIGGER POWERFUL most DEFIANTLY more EDUCATED Population than the US. We are and were innovators of technology defence and the holders of the biggest empire to ever have been ‼️

  38. Britain has fuck all worries about being invaded. Bar the US, nobody has the sort of navy it would require to invade the UK, least of all Russia. The worst they could do is cut some cables but we would be unlikely to escalate that into a war anyway as our politicians are too craven to respond to these levels of antagonism, as we’ve seen over the last decade or two.

  39. Relying on America has always been and always will be a terrible idea.

    They’re stupid, boastful, easily led, trigger happy, ignorant, and delusional bullies, not to mention they have no issues turning their back on any ally and shaking hands with any enemy. Then there’s this disgusting alliance and funding the genocidal and zionistic state of Israel, and of course the shaking hands with Putin.

    They have a complete lack of integrity, and thankfully Trump has come along to really prove that to everyone once and for all.

  40. USA has betrayed its allies and sides with russian in the war with Ukraine and only thing trump cares about is money

  41. 1) We don’t need them. 2) USA will only come if they can profit from it.

  43. The USA,regardless of whose in charge, won’t be jumping for joy if they have to be directly involved with Europe in a situation where Article 5 is triggered. I do think they will always send money and weapons regardless, but they won’t want to directly involve their own military.

    As of now, Europe has shown weakness when dealing with Russia 🇷🇺, Putin is a man who can be in charge during a war but if you compare him to most European 🇪🇺 leaders in terms of war-like abilities, you can see why Europe is not deemed a huge threat on a global scale.

    The USA 🇺🇸 don’t want to be dragged down by an ally that is showing vast incompetence and weakness in the face of Russia. The polish 🇵🇱 politicians are the only ones I’ve seen really take a strong stance against Russia 🇷🇺.

    Europe can handle Russia with support from the USA, it’s only if China 🇨🇳 gets involved that the alarm bells 🔔 really need to be ringing on a global scale.

    I do think Europe should have ended this war years ago, it was very predictable and just shows how little foresight and military aptitude is currently in the EU.

  44. If a NATO country was attacked, we all know that the USA would not help. That is the new reality, possibly always was but at least there used to be enough confidence that the alliance worked

  45. The UK need to get rid of that tool in charge, he’s fucking it all up

  46. Maybe we could be part of that European union, wouldn’t that be convenient for us all.

  48. Isn’t NATO already a defacto European defense pact?

    Or can the US veto a NATO action?

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