I have a feeling some people won’t like this article because of Richmond but I can’t say I disagree with a single word written there. Preparation for any poll *must* be transparent for all voters on the island. Referendums across the water over the past ten years can show how they can be done wrong and for the wrong reasons.
> unity is no longer a dirty word.
I don’t think it ever was a bad word outside of Fine Gael circles.
Richmond says he wants us to rejoin the commonwealth before we hold a border poll, finds the Easter lily offensive but wears the poppy, once doxxed a teen for nothing other than criticizing his political record. He wrote how he doesn’t care about marriage equality as a right because “it doesn’t affect him”.
I hope they put him in charge of the bees when it comes time to organize a poll.
Anytime anyone one else says that fine Gael hose them down as been too provocative.
Used to work with him.
I don’t know if we need any lessons from the clusterfuck that was the way the UK ran Brexit, but there’s an object lesson in non-preparation. They are just at the start of their mapless journey still.
​
Edit: weird getting downvotes from people who are apparently amazed that Brexit turned out to be a shambles
We do, and we need to prepare for the reality that most people will vote to retain the status quo.
Is that the same preparation that Sinn Fein have been talking about but in a different context
A feeling I have is a sizable number of college educated unionists would support a United Ireland if a picture was painted of how a shared island would look, but which political party or politician wants to be first in saying just the basics, a new flag and anthem required, before the big issues can be addressed.
Will at least get a better football team.
The good people of Cork need to prepare too: if they’re finding it tough being second to Dublin, they’re really going to struggle when they find themselves the third or even fourth most important city in Ireland.
I think people are kidding themselves about a border poll. Support for the union in collapsing in NI, but that’s not transferring into support for united Ireland.
Even amongst nationalists in the north support isn’t high.
Jumping from one Tory fiasco into a slightly less insane Tory fiasco isn’t the appeal people think it is. Look at the actual polling numbers up north sometime.
Because…
> What will our healthcare system look like? Our education system?
… our Tories are still talking about solving problems that should have been solved decades ago. As if they’re not in power.
As usual people here are back talking about flags and anthems. But the reality is the standard of living is higher in the UK than Ireland. And that’s overwhelmingly what the “undecided” in NI care about. And they’re the ones that will decide any border poll.
Edit: ok, downvote. But again just look at the polling numbers.
Just trying to out shinner the shinners on the national question. Funny that his party has had over 100 years and was in power for a lot of it to do this work. It’s only now that they feel the pressure too.
Edit: spelling
The problems will arise with the disinformation machine that was active for Brexit and is trying to spread it’s poison over here now(there’s a nationalist party handing out leaflets with links to brexiteers). If we have an open book strategy, it’ll be unpicked by the ones that want to keep NI, including the British establishment. There is a lot at stake in terms of the strategic port of Belfast and sovereign/fishing waters, putting aside the economics which don’t figure large in matters of strategic sovereignty, look at Gibraltar, Falklands etc.
What also hasn’t been discussed is the two referenda, one in NI and one in the Republic, which should go first, probably NI. What’s the threshold. Constitutional change normally has a higher bar that a mere 50% majority, that was the mistake that Cameron made which resulted in Brexit. What control over the process should we have if it’s going to be called, and timed, by the British, maybe timed in a manner similar to the Scottish referendum which wasn’t the ideal moment for Scottish Nationalists.
There isn’t any real reason why the government can’t renegotiate such an important matter for the country and take more control over the process. It will require a will maybe not there at the moment and my worry is we’ll end up with a bastardised process that will be another British manipulation in order to stave off the disintegration of the UK in the knowledge that Scotland will likely follow.
I think the status quo is probably the best option. If you could get rid of the two extremists in SF and DUP who want their way over the other way, would be good.
Status quo is the best of both worlds. You get to decide if you’re British or Irish. You get freedom of travel into the EU and across the border.
To the people of Northern Ireland who were left behind after 1922., the expression Tiocfaidh ar lá I have always deemed to be this generation where we will get 6 counties back through peaceful political means, but what follows that will not be peaceful for likely many years. But the Irish government I’m sure will likely succeed in dampening that and hopefully not letting any soul perish in those times as we are not bloodthirsty but peaceful.
Tadgh Hickey must be rubbing off on him
No, no, no absolutely no. The only other country we can visit by land and you all want to get rid of it. Fuck no
Polling in NI would need to start consistently showing support for one first.
Dont worry some auld android says its 2024 we have united Ireland
Separate to this article, I’ve always wondered if Fine Gael really want a united Ireland. You might be able to include Fianna Fáil in this too. Say a United Ireland was successful, that adds a bunch of new voters to the electorate. Many of them will likely vote for Sinn Finn. There would also likely been ‘new’ parties to the republic that cater to the Unionist community so Fine Gael are unlikely to pick up votes there. Perhaps some of the middle ground unaligned voters might got to FFG but I’d imagine the Alliance party would still be active in a United Ireland. I am not too familiar with their policies but I imagine they are similar enough to Social Dems in the Republic.
I just don’t see them benefiting politically from a United Ireland and in fact might be bad for them overall.
Border poll? Jaysis lads.. say nothing… …
Fuck off
Said it before and I’ll say it again. The Government needs to publish a plan covering how reunification would happen. From the new Dail composition to road signs to NHS to currency to education etc. etc. I think it’s a plan that’ll take 10 years to implement but at least everyone will know what they’re voting for.
Scotland did something similar. They had a plan ready to go if the independence vote had passed.
A couple of things, well, maybe a few:
1. We should have such a committee, one might argue we should have set up such a committee not long after the Good Friday Agreement was signed.
2. The committee needs to exist for as long as is necessary until the poll is called and such a poll is successful, because things are constantly changing and advancing on both sides of the border, new technologies, new systems being established for public services and that sort of thing so how that will be treated and adapted to merge with the other country’s system, all that sort of thing. Basically, it shouldn’t be a 3-5 year committee and we’ve thought of everything now so we’ll disband it and just wait.
3. It doesn’t matter what the Irish government say or do to try and convince a certain section of the population of Northern Ireland that we’re prepared and will to make the efforts to cater to their needs and concerns, they will still vote no. They probably won’t even read the proposals and strategies put future. They probably wouldn’t engage if they were invited to participate in a consultation process to see what exact are their fears and concerns, it would just be a no from them regardless. In fact, the best strategy would probably be the Westminster strategy; make it clear and obvious we don’t want a United Ireland, that they’re just a fucking thorn in the government’s side and that might win them over, because that’s pretty much how Westminister have treated the North for decades and the hardened Unionists still worship the crown and Westminister and the Union.
For RoI people on here who want a united Ireland, as a NI person I ask you one question:
Have you ever personally witnessed an Orange Order parade in NI during the marching season?
If not, it might temper your enthusiasm just that little bit.
26 comments
They haven’t been…?
I have a feeling some people won’t like this article because of Richmond but I can’t say I disagree with a single word written there. Preparation for any poll *must* be transparent for all voters on the island. Referendums across the water over the past ten years can show how they can be done wrong and for the wrong reasons.
> unity is no longer a dirty word.
I don’t think it ever was a bad word outside of Fine Gael circles.
Richmond says he wants us to rejoin the commonwealth before we hold a border poll, finds the Easter lily offensive but wears the poppy, once doxxed a teen for nothing other than criticizing his political record. He wrote how he doesn’t care about marriage equality as a right because “it doesn’t affect him”.
I hope they put him in charge of the bees when it comes time to organize a poll.
Anytime anyone one else says that fine Gael hose them down as been too provocative.
Used to work with him.
I don’t know if we need any lessons from the clusterfuck that was the way the UK ran Brexit, but there’s an object lesson in non-preparation. They are just at the start of their mapless journey still.
​
Edit: weird getting downvotes from people who are apparently amazed that Brexit turned out to be a shambles
We do, and we need to prepare for the reality that most people will vote to retain the status quo.
Is that the same preparation that Sinn Fein have been talking about but in a different context
A feeling I have is a sizable number of college educated unionists would support a United Ireland if a picture was painted of how a shared island would look, but which political party or politician wants to be first in saying just the basics, a new flag and anthem required, before the big issues can be addressed.
Will at least get a better football team.
The good people of Cork need to prepare too: if they’re finding it tough being second to Dublin, they’re really going to struggle when they find themselves the third or even fourth most important city in Ireland.
I think people are kidding themselves about a border poll. Support for the union in collapsing in NI, but that’s not transferring into support for united Ireland.
Even amongst nationalists in the north support isn’t high.
Jumping from one Tory fiasco into a slightly less insane Tory fiasco isn’t the appeal people think it is. Look at the actual polling numbers up north sometime.
Because…
> What will our healthcare system look like? Our education system?
… our Tories are still talking about solving problems that should have been solved decades ago. As if they’re not in power.
As usual people here are back talking about flags and anthems. But the reality is the standard of living is higher in the UK than Ireland. And that’s overwhelmingly what the “undecided” in NI care about. And they’re the ones that will decide any border poll.
Edit: ok, downvote. But again just look at the polling numbers.
Just trying to out shinner the shinners on the national question. Funny that his party has had over 100 years and was in power for a lot of it to do this work. It’s only now that they feel the pressure too.
Edit: spelling
The problems will arise with the disinformation machine that was active for Brexit and is trying to spread it’s poison over here now(there’s a nationalist party handing out leaflets with links to brexiteers). If we have an open book strategy, it’ll be unpicked by the ones that want to keep NI, including the British establishment. There is a lot at stake in terms of the strategic port of Belfast and sovereign/fishing waters, putting aside the economics which don’t figure large in matters of strategic sovereignty, look at Gibraltar, Falklands etc.
What also hasn’t been discussed is the two referenda, one in NI and one in the Republic, which should go first, probably NI. What’s the threshold. Constitutional change normally has a higher bar that a mere 50% majority, that was the mistake that Cameron made which resulted in Brexit. What control over the process should we have if it’s going to be called, and timed, by the British, maybe timed in a manner similar to the Scottish referendum which wasn’t the ideal moment for Scottish Nationalists.
There isn’t any real reason why the government can’t renegotiate such an important matter for the country and take more control over the process. It will require a will maybe not there at the moment and my worry is we’ll end up with a bastardised process that will be another British manipulation in order to stave off the disintegration of the UK in the knowledge that Scotland will likely follow.
I think the status quo is probably the best option. If you could get rid of the two extremists in SF and DUP who want their way over the other way, would be good.
Status quo is the best of both worlds. You get to decide if you’re British or Irish. You get freedom of travel into the EU and across the border.
To the people of Northern Ireland who were left behind after 1922., the expression Tiocfaidh ar lá I have always deemed to be this generation where we will get 6 counties back through peaceful political means, but what follows that will not be peaceful for likely many years. But the Irish government I’m sure will likely succeed in dampening that and hopefully not letting any soul perish in those times as we are not bloodthirsty but peaceful.
Tadgh Hickey must be rubbing off on him
No, no, no absolutely no. The only other country we can visit by land and you all want to get rid of it. Fuck no
Polling in NI would need to start consistently showing support for one first.
Dont worry some auld android says its 2024 we have united Ireland
Separate to this article, I’ve always wondered if Fine Gael really want a united Ireland. You might be able to include Fianna Fáil in this too. Say a United Ireland was successful, that adds a bunch of new voters to the electorate. Many of them will likely vote for Sinn Finn. There would also likely been ‘new’ parties to the republic that cater to the Unionist community so Fine Gael are unlikely to pick up votes there. Perhaps some of the middle ground unaligned voters might got to FFG but I’d imagine the Alliance party would still be active in a United Ireland. I am not too familiar with their policies but I imagine they are similar enough to Social Dems in the Republic.
I just don’t see them benefiting politically from a United Ireland and in fact might be bad for them overall.
Border poll? Jaysis lads.. say nothing… …
Fuck off
Said it before and I’ll say it again. The Government needs to publish a plan covering how reunification would happen. From the new Dail composition to road signs to NHS to currency to education etc. etc. I think it’s a plan that’ll take 10 years to implement but at least everyone will know what they’re voting for.
Scotland did something similar. They had a plan ready to go if the independence vote had passed.
A couple of things, well, maybe a few:
1. We should have such a committee, one might argue we should have set up such a committee not long after the Good Friday Agreement was signed.
2. The committee needs to exist for as long as is necessary until the poll is called and such a poll is successful, because things are constantly changing and advancing on both sides of the border, new technologies, new systems being established for public services and that sort of thing so how that will be treated and adapted to merge with the other country’s system, all that sort of thing. Basically, it shouldn’t be a 3-5 year committee and we’ve thought of everything now so we’ll disband it and just wait.
3. It doesn’t matter what the Irish government say or do to try and convince a certain section of the population of Northern Ireland that we’re prepared and will to make the efforts to cater to their needs and concerns, they will still vote no. They probably won’t even read the proposals and strategies put future. They probably wouldn’t engage if they were invited to participate in a consultation process to see what exact are their fears and concerns, it would just be a no from them regardless. In fact, the best strategy would probably be the Westminster strategy; make it clear and obvious we don’t want a United Ireland, that they’re just a fucking thorn in the government’s side and that might win them over, because that’s pretty much how Westminister have treated the North for decades and the hardened Unionists still worship the crown and Westminister and the Union.
For RoI people on here who want a united Ireland, as a NI person I ask you one question:
Have you ever personally witnessed an Orange Order parade in NI during the marching season?
If not, it might temper your enthusiasm just that little bit.