Trouble is this shows how good Russian propaganda is not the individual lecturer. Outside the students bubble, people like the lecturer are digesting this through social media and then brining it out to those around
Never go full tankie.
So western conspiracies are right but Russia’s are wrong
Is this really bbc news?
Lecturers always work their personal ideology into their courses though.
The only way I’ve passed so far is by working out what their views are and doing coursework that supports that. It’s bs.
The big lesson in all this is that a PhD denotes hard work, general intelligence, but often a lack of common ‘real-world’ sense.
Anybody looking to the Russian state as an exemplar of truth and sincerity is going to have a bad time, let alone one currently being led by an ex-intelligence official in power however many years.
Source: I have met PhD’ers. Often super smart, often not of the real world (and that’s ok).
Unfortunately some academics are deranged lefties and because of combination of their Putin-like pining for the glory days of the USSR and their hatred of the US they come-up with twaddle like this.
I’ve actually witnessed a leftwing academic friend of mine give a far too pro-Russian arguement at the start of the war. He was bit drunk but as they say in vino veritas.
This is largely the result of all sides regularly using propaganda and being caught out; as a civillian in the middle, you end up not being able to tell what’s real and what’s not. Even now, if you search for ‘Syria chemical weapons attack’ you get a ton of articles – some even from reputable news sites – going into how some aspect or another of an attack was staged.
Why do I not trust anybody with blue hair anymore.
Not really sure what misinformation he was spreading. Russia is obviously in the wrong in Ukraine but if you think Ukraine is perfect then you’re beyond help. The job of the media and academics should be to look at both sides and come up with a balanced conclusion.
It seems like this naive girl is just not used to hearing arguments that don’t precisely fit ‘her own’ world view.
It’s absolutely true that the western media has been extremely anti Assad when the situation in Syria is much more balanced than they’d have you believe. The west has a long history of pushing for regime change (for its own benefit) and the people who benefit from that are well aware of how to manipulate the media in order to further their gain. This isn’t a pro Assad message but it’s frustrating hearing another ignorant student essentially trying to cancel someone by shaming them for having a more open mind than them.
I can’t believe it’s 2022 and it’s still a controversial opinion to hold that our government and our media may lie to us about wars.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
[removed]
It doesn’t sound like the lecturer has done anything wrong. It would be dangerous if lecturers were only allowed to discuss one side of the story.
Don’t really get what the issue is? You aren’t made to agree with your lecturers at university.
The problem with this is that everything is propaganda. The UK uses propaganda, it uses ordinary media to push it’s propaganda and private individuals push their propaganda. Everything you know could be propaganda and there would be no way of you really knowing.
And I don’t trust whatever’s on the TV.
Whatever the lecturer believes, when he presents the 2 statements it is helpfull to provide context. The Russian govermnemnt has lied numerous times in the past, not only lied but showed a contempt for the truth itself. It has murdered citizens in state back action, in Russia and abroad. It has illegally invaded another country. If they are saying the truth in some matters, it is completely understandable for us to disconsider their side. We are suapicoius of our governments due to a small fraction of lying perpertrated on us, why should we believe them. If there is some truth in what they are saying, the truth is a victim of their lying not of us being gullible.
Seriously??….What a total ‘hack’ article, a storm In a teacup
“Acquiring knowledge involves investigation, research and reasoning,” he added. “If that’s always going to be dismissed as disinformation, I think it’s a very dangerous line to go down.”
the above is a totally valid statement, the problem is that people are frightened by the prospect that their world view could be turned upside down so they dismiss it out of hand or get angry or aggressive.
the thought that your government could ever condone let alone engage in lies is too much for some. Sadly they do and they are, all the time. Misinformation/Disinformation are just the latest buzzwords with which to beat you over the head with.
”listen and believe” thats what they’d like you to do, just shut up and go back to whatever you were doing
I think this lecturer should honestly be commended. It’s far too easy to always accept the view that the government and media tell us, without thinking about it and reviewing all the evidence. I’m not saying he’s right in his view by any means, but it’s the job of academics to form their own opinions based on research rather than read out what they hear on the news.
Probably didn’t listen to the BBC about state propaganda and when it’s bad.
Yeah because I totally believe Biden and Johnson. Ukraine should be a buffer/ neutral country but instead is being encouraged to stand up to Russia in what is essentially another western proxy war. After turning the Middle East upside on a lie I would hope there would be more nuanced conversations happening.
I’m just surprised anyone would think the war in syria was anything other than a proxy war in terms of western / russian involvement, I don’t recall anyone even particularly pretending otherwise in terms of propaganda, to any serious extent at least.
What the article doesn’t mention, and which hence is overlooked in all the replies so far, is that [Hayward is a a professor of political theory](https://www.sps.ed.ac.uk/staff/tim-hayward) so it’s literally his job to discuss and dissect dodgy political narratives.
Maybe I did not read this properly or perhaps it’s the way the article is written but it seems more as thought these students are complaining that they are expected to think critically from multiple perspectives. And they have just happened to latch on to this very incendiary and current topic.
24 comments
Trouble is this shows how good Russian propaganda is not the individual lecturer. Outside the students bubble, people like the lecturer are digesting this through social media and then brining it out to those around
Never go full tankie.
So western conspiracies are right but Russia’s are wrong
Is this really bbc news?
Lecturers always work their personal ideology into their courses though.
The only way I’ve passed so far is by working out what their views are and doing coursework that supports that. It’s bs.
The big lesson in all this is that a PhD denotes hard work, general intelligence, but often a lack of common ‘real-world’ sense.
Anybody looking to the Russian state as an exemplar of truth and sincerity is going to have a bad time, let alone one currently being led by an ex-intelligence official in power however many years.
Source: I have met PhD’ers. Often super smart, often not of the real world (and that’s ok).
Unfortunately some academics are deranged lefties and because of combination of their Putin-like pining for the glory days of the USSR and their hatred of the US they come-up with twaddle like this.
I’ve actually witnessed a leftwing academic friend of mine give a far too pro-Russian arguement at the start of the war. He was bit drunk but as they say in vino veritas.
Edit: For those that can’t handle the truth, Tim Hayward (the Prof mentioned in the article) joined the Labour party “to get a government guided by Corbyn’s principles”.
https://al-bab.com/blog/2019/05/labour-and-palestine-case-unwelcome-friends
Edit: r/uk you truly are pathetic.
This is largely the result of all sides regularly using propaganda and being caught out; as a civillian in the middle, you end up not being able to tell what’s real and what’s not. Even now, if you search for ‘Syria chemical weapons attack’ you get a ton of articles – some even from reputable news sites – going into how some aspect or another of an attack was staged.
Why do I not trust anybody with blue hair anymore.
Not really sure what misinformation he was spreading. Russia is obviously in the wrong in Ukraine but if you think Ukraine is perfect then you’re beyond help. The job of the media and academics should be to look at both sides and come up with a balanced conclusion.
It seems like this naive girl is just not used to hearing arguments that don’t precisely fit ‘her own’ world view.
It’s absolutely true that the western media has been extremely anti Assad when the situation in Syria is much more balanced than they’d have you believe. The west has a long history of pushing for regime change (for its own benefit) and the people who benefit from that are well aware of how to manipulate the media in order to further their gain. This isn’t a pro Assad message but it’s frustrating hearing another ignorant student essentially trying to cancel someone by shaming them for having a more open mind than them.
I can’t believe it’s 2022 and it’s still a controversial opinion to hold that our government and our media may lie to us about wars.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
[removed]
It doesn’t sound like the lecturer has done anything wrong. It would be dangerous if lecturers were only allowed to discuss one side of the story.
Don’t really get what the issue is? You aren’t made to agree with your lecturers at university.
The problem with this is that everything is propaganda. The UK uses propaganda, it uses ordinary media to push it’s propaganda and private individuals push their propaganda. Everything you know could be propaganda and there would be no way of you really knowing.
And I don’t trust whatever’s on the TV.
Whatever the lecturer believes, when he presents the 2 statements it is helpfull to provide context. The Russian govermnemnt has lied numerous times in the past, not only lied but showed a contempt for the truth itself. It has murdered citizens in state back action, in Russia and abroad. It has illegally invaded another country. If they are saying the truth in some matters, it is completely understandable for us to disconsider their side. We are suapicoius of our governments due to a small fraction of lying perpertrated on us, why should we believe them. If there is some truth in what they are saying, the truth is a victim of their lying not of us being gullible.
Seriously??….What a total ‘hack’ article, a storm In a teacup
“Acquiring knowledge involves investigation, research and reasoning,” he added. “If that’s always going to be dismissed as disinformation, I think it’s a very dangerous line to go down.”
the above is a totally valid statement, the problem is that people are frightened by the prospect that their world view could be turned upside down so they dismiss it out of hand or get angry or aggressive.
the thought that your government could ever condone let alone engage in lies is too much for some. Sadly they do and they are, all the time. Misinformation/Disinformation are just the latest buzzwords with which to beat you over the head with.
”listen and believe” thats what they’d like you to do, just shut up and go back to whatever you were doing
I think this lecturer should honestly be commended. It’s far too easy to always accept the view that the government and media tell us, without thinking about it and reviewing all the evidence. I’m not saying he’s right in his view by any means, but it’s the job of academics to form their own opinions based on research rather than read out what they hear on the news.
Probably didn’t listen to the BBC about state propaganda and when it’s bad.
Yeah because I totally believe Biden and Johnson. Ukraine should be a buffer/ neutral country but instead is being encouraged to stand up to Russia in what is essentially another western proxy war. After turning the Middle East upside on a lie I would hope there would be more nuanced conversations happening.
I’m just surprised anyone would think the war in syria was anything other than a proxy war in terms of western / russian involvement, I don’t recall anyone even particularly pretending otherwise in terms of propaganda, to any serious extent at least.
What the article doesn’t mention, and which hence is overlooked in all the replies so far, is that [Hayward is a a professor of political theory](https://www.sps.ed.ac.uk/staff/tim-hayward) so it’s literally his job to discuss and dissect dodgy political narratives.
Maybe I did not read this properly or perhaps it’s the way the article is written but it seems more as thought these students are complaining that they are expected to think critically from multiple perspectives. And they have just happened to latch on to this very incendiary and current topic.